RPGM The Last Sovereign [v0.75.4] [Sierra Lee]

[Lolicon Kami]

Be it as it may, anyone is welcome to write here as long as they are not an ultra asshole (think elon musk lvl) and are sticking to the general topic of either the game or its similarity to other media. (don't quote me on it, i didnt read the rules in years so i can be fuck wrong on this one )

Agree

 

[Jennnnnyyyyy]

Since a update is coming on friday, imma take a wild guess that the last harem member will be andra (yes that andra) since it just seems like she was on some "redemption" path and bla bla bla let simon fix her, that or we get a genderbent orcent (imma mod it in if that wont happen, im joking ofc)
It could be a revived mestan or sum crazy plot (1st MALE HAREM MEMBER?)
OR OR the uhhh... bird from zirantia... uhh ah right Biyue...
It can't be yearel bcs that just dont make sense at all
wont be feremina bcs ew no (character fine, the loli-like look aint)
GALVIA? eh, idk. maybe Melymym just to annoy everyone? sort of "anti-fan service"
If it is that woman from feroholm, the one who tries to jump simon 24/7, imma be real annoyed.
could be vera bcs of connection to mithyn... could be wrong on this one as well.
Hadi? (the one from the gathering)
vunne? vune? viunne? whatever the top.1 slave of lust-fake-lord is called, could also be her

Or

the worst option of them ALL

...
Annah

Thats all i can think of, take it how u want, preferably by not replying with ur own crazy theories bcs my brain cant take more of em during oct-nov due to mass effect.

 

[Rugerrell6]

Since a update is coming on friday, imma take a wild guess that the last harem member will be andra (yes that andra) since it just seems like she was on some "redemption" path and bla bla bla let simon fix her, that or we get a genderbent orcent (imma mod it in if that wont happen, im joking ofc)
It could be a revived mestan or sum crazy plot (1st MALE HAREM MEMBER?)
OR OR the uhhh... bird from zirantia... uhh ah right Biyue...
It can't be yearel bcs that just dont make sense at all
wont be feremina bcs ew no (character fine, the loli-like look aint)
GALVIA? eh, idk. maybe Melymym just to annoy everyone? sort of "anti-fan service"
If it is that woman from feroholm, the one who tries to jump simon 24/7, imma be real annoyed.
could be vera bcs of connection to mithyn... could be wrong on this one as well.
Hadi? (the one from the gathering)
vunne? vune? viunne? whatever the top.1 slave of lust-fake-lord is called, could also be her

Or

the worst option of them ALL

...
Annah

Thats all i can think of, take it how u want, preferably by not replying with ur own crazy theories bcs my brain cant take more of em during oct-nov due to mass effect.

I would love for it to be Annah that would just be awesome but obviously not gonna happen. But I remember back a long while ago there being a little bit of backlash because Lilith was supposed to be the last Harem member and because of her childish appearance some people werent feeling it even though she is actually like hundreds or even thousands of years old and is not human so human standards of morality dont really apply to her. But yea she was supposed to be the last Harem member as far as I remember. Its been so long since ive played but it would also be cool to have the girl with the animal mask Ulrissa or something or other I mean she does have some big ole tittays.

 

[Lolicon Kami]

wont be feremina bcs ew no (character fine, the loli-like look aint)

You have invoked the wrath of god
(jk)

 

[Jennnnnyyyyy]

I would love for it to be Annah that would just be awesome but obviously not gonna happen. But I remember back a long while ago there being a little bit of backlash because Lilith was supposed to be the last Harem member and because of her childish appearance some people werent feeling it even though she is actually like hundreds or even thousands of years old and is not human so human standards of morality dont really apply to her. But yea she was supposed to be the last Harem member as far as I remember. Its been so long since ive played but it would also be cool to have the girl with the animal mask Ulrissa or something or other I mean she does have some big ole tittays.

right ulrissa is a thing, forgot about her entirely (well she did complain like once bcs i didnt attack tanurak or smth, but other than that, she dont do much) i mean she does play a role in the final fight thing but im no bitch, wont spoil it (she dies, or does she?) i am gonna ignore the tits comment, thats such a brute thing to say... yarra would approve tho.

Annah while she may not make sense (i dont think she would even accept that ivala is not the way she envisioned her) could be a very good pick, all we gotta do is have a... high priestess training arc? like we did with the elf bitch (if you decide that she is actually worth saving)

also i forgot lilith exists bcs well... she is like deadpool in a sense that the character makes no sense but also make alot of sense when u think about it (tbh dont know why on earth she made mestan and didnt take full control, why a "chaos" agent even joins someone who wants to make stuff "neutral" lotta plot holes in there if u ask me)

I do think lilith could use a different "character art" to make her look less... human-childlike-ish, something more akin to a "wraith" some "ghostly" entity or sum shit (its hard to imagine how a "chaos agent" would actually look like when chaos itself should make no sense whatsoever imo)

Watch it be vhala after she undergoes the un-un-human process? (what tf do u even call this) as the "war" is over and she has no reason to fight or sum weird ah idea (could also become a goddess to "help" other "un-humans" and such, some patron of the lost or whatever)

 

[JustMonika36898]

right ulrissa is a thing, forgot about her entirely (well she did complain like once bcs i didnt attack tanurak or smth, but other than that, she dont do much) i mean she does play a role in the final fight thing but im no bitch, wont spoil it (she dies, or does she?) i am gonna ignore the tits comment, thats such a brute thing to say... yarra would approve tho.

Annah while she may not make sense (i dont think she would even accept that ivala is not the way she envisioned her) could be a very good pick, all we gotta do is have a... high priestess training arc? like we did with the elf bitch (if you decide that she is actually worth saving)

also i forgot lilith exists bcs well... she is like deadpool in a sense that the character makes no sense but also make alot of sense when u think about it (tbh dont know why on earth she made mestan and didnt take full control, why a "chaos" agent even joins someone who wants to make stuff "neutral" lotta plot holes in there if u ask me)

I do think lilith could use a different "character art" to make her look less... human-childlike-ish, something more akin to a "wraith" some "ghostly" entity or sum shit (its hard to imagine how a "chaos agent" would actually look like when chaos itself should make no sense whatsoever imo)

Watch it be vhala after she undergoes the un-un-human process? (what tf do u even call this) as the "war" is over and she has no reason to fight or sum weird ah idea (could also become a goddess to "help" other "un-humans" and such, some patron of the lost or whatever)

I won't lie, I actually really like both Andra and Annah, but I know that isn't really a popular opinion. And I personally always interpreted Vhala's reasoning for becoming an unperson as her being asexual. That doesn't mean she couldn't be a romantic interest, though. Melymyn(probably misspelled that, weird name), yeah, I can't get over that smug face, her eyebrows? I just can't take her seriously lol

 

[Fulminato]

right ulrissa is a thing, forgot about her entirely (well she did complain like once bcs i didnt attack tanurak or smth, but other than that, she dont do much) i mean she does play a role in the final fight thing but im no bitch, wont spoil it (she dies, or does she?) i am gonna ignore the tits comment, thats such a brute thing to say... yarra would approve tho.

the dev explicit said to be not ulrissa.

 

[mahligl]

There is always

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.

 

[Jennnnnyyyyy]

There is always

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.

isn't he/she theoretically in the "harem" as part of the "tertiary" harem like yarra said (not sure if it was that word but bah who cares) since funai was considered as part of it even before she slept with simon (i can be confusing shit bcs i dont keep track of who is in the harem and who aint aside from the menu that yarra got in the HQ)

+ i doubt sierra would make an orc into more than a companion (mainly bcs orcs in the lore arent exactly great even when you start helping em out and give em a nation and invest gazzillionz into em)

But we should not count that out, as you never know what will happen and having a orc lover would certainly be... interesting.

The only issue is that as of late, all of the harem members who joined were well... either extremely powerful individuals or deities (goddesses) so whoever it is, has alot to be compared to. (or we get a lamiaaaaaaaaaa)

 

[mahligl]

orcs in the lore arent exactly great even when you start helping em out and give em a nation and invest gazzillionz

I was joking, but I strongly disagree with this particular statement. When Tak'kan is well-developed, it becomes the sanest place on Arclent, maybe with the exception of Ari-Yhilina.

 

[Jennnnnyyyyy]

I was joking, but I strongly disagree with this particular statement. When Tak'kan is well-developed, it becomes the sanest place on Arclent, maybe with the exception of Ari-Yhilina.

for them to achieve a state where they are "well developed" they need so much investments that 2 human or elf nations could been built, its a given since the state of their whole existence up to that point was "breed and kill" but it still ticks me off when they get a DEMOCRATIC GOV and then have the balls to actually say "sorry pal, cant let u do that" after u literally made their race into more than brutes.

Sure the orcs that YOU meet are interesting and all, but 99% of other orcs are literally braindead brutes who only know how to follow, even in chapter 5 u still have problems which stem out of orc's being orcs.

The bar is hella low for tak'kan tbh, human lands are fucked up beyond anything if u ask me, u got religious figures caring more about stupidity than helping others (nice representation of irl religions imo) u got merchants literally gate keeping others from being successful just cos they wanna make more money, u got a king who refused to do jack shit all bcs he himself did damage to his own mental (talk about incompetence) (sure he does some redemption and all dat but fuck that, he knew life was stupid, so why not try to make it at least bit better for his own nation)

There is a cut scene where the council talks about mobbing "peasants" just so they dont get into "power" IN PRESENCE OF THEIR FUCKING KING... (he really annoys me in this game btw)
So yeah the bar is so low, that humans look worse than a race breed to be dumb.

But thats just 1 kingdom, u got elves who lost their lands and given that sure, they aint happy, but to have infighting bcs 1 half of ur race wants to be some stupid pure shits (sure the elf bitch who somehow got a shard aint helping this one) and the other to "embrace" "corruption" instead of unifying and actually trying to start a new, the queens dont help jack too, 1 is too stubborn to do anything (real royalty here lol) and the other is as naive as a 2y old.

Aram is the definition of a failure imo, they went "big army" but no infrastructure (sure they did lose land to that dipshit incubi) and instead of idk trading with others, they go full on "fuck everyone" route (humanity at its peak)

Yhillin is the ONLY human nation that is somewhat ok, aside from corruption, idiotic noble houses trying to usurp their royalty (just kill em, set an exampleeeeee plssssssssss) u got a huge mage body who refuses to accept anyone who is not rich (the stuck up mage bs seems to stick no matter what game u play)

Im not gonna talk about Zirantia bcs thats just a huge ass joke of a nation (royalty does nothing, religious/military idiots try to rule but fail when anything goes south)

So yeah, Arclent in comparison to other continents is a joke, and the other continents are literally lead by fucking tyrants like some "fucklord"...

Good representation of humanity irl tbh, even when a huge threat is looming, who can exterminate all of humanity, we still have infighting for scraps of power, honestly im surprised there was no nation that tried to JOIN the damned idiot who invaded.

kinda wish we got to visit more locations in yhilin and other places, just to see more of em (bcs im 100000% sure that
ari-relhana and ari-akhor would be overtly religious to the point where slavery is rampant and the religious cunt who leads em does nothing to it... hmm reminds me of a town we visited before...)

That being said, humanity sucks, elves are dumb, orcs were made to be dumb, succubi and incubi are somewhat interesting and dwaren? dwurun? are the more boring of em all. (don't get me stared on the deities of this world)

10/10 writing from sierra. (u know stuff is good when u can hate it for real reasons)

Oh btw when new givini gets a royalty who act all stuck up FROM THE START (they barely got their lands back and already act all mighty??????) i really wished we could just nuke em and give it some someone else.
Like the only nation that actually did well (aside from orcs who get like 901296371897632039217¨2873921 pron worth of help) were the damned succubi... and somehow they are the "evil" race in lore...

Makes u agree with wynn's plan more and more. (yes i like wynn)

 

[Penitensary]

*snip*

So basically, orcs may be braindead brutes that need selective breeding programs to bring them up to par with other races, but at least they aren't incompetent like everyone else?

 

[Jennnnnyyyyy]

So basically, orcs may be braindead brutes that need selective breeding programs to bring them up to par with other races, but at least they aren't incompetent like everyone else?

THEY were used as "cheap/slave labor" for a reason, easy to make em do simple stuff that needs lotta strength and little to no intellect.
(aside from Ghenalon, which seems to be the odd one out where orc DONT look as bad and arent stupid as fuck, but as said before, this one is some sort of utopia where everyone works together and all dat sham)
Humans in comparison would be able to do the same, but require payment, ok-ish treatment (if not used as slave labor) and much more compared to orcs
Succubi seem to be the "use others for own benefit" solely based on them always having orcs/lamias (lamias being the "lower class" succubi)
Elves dont like others so they do own shit (how's dat work out for ya river huhhhh)
Dwurun are eh... slow but smartest, they prob would make some sort of robots to make work easier *cough* Geth, mass effect *cough*

To be brutaly honest, orcs seem better than humans, you can breed them to actually have brains (that didnt help much as they started to make problems which stem out of them actually having intelligence) humans may be born with them, but we tend to... end up stupid no matter how hard some people try

Moral of the story, stupid will be stupid and if ur lucky, u gonna be that sweet 1% THAT WONT BE ANNIHILATED

 

[mahligl]

The bar is hella low

I feel that the overall portrayal of the world is not as grim as you painted it, but yeah, it's fucked up. Still, every single country manages to be pretty alright, even when facing the prospect of total annihilation, a squabble for diminishing resources, and your goddesses being either absent or indifferent to what happens in the world.

And that's the whole point. Even the braindead can be functional; even the nobles and merchants can do the thing, even when they're complete fucks. They manage to drag on by themselves, and a lot of things can, in fact, be fixed, given sufficient power and will.

That's what the trolling guy rightly noted about the game: it is a moral fantasy for disillusioned and jaded people (or for those who choose to become jaded because it's a convenient way to live, given that our world is pretty fucked as well). Simon used to be basically a high-functioning mental case, with no aspirations, erections (or the will to act on them), and a strict sense of duty (just to avoid becoming an actual mental case). He is depressed because the world seems fucked beyond redemption, so it feels wrong and/or impossible even to produce good old endorphine and dopamine.

But then succubi happen. Yay, the power of sex fueling you to be better and pay your dues to the world in a fulfilling way!

 

[manscout]

That's what the trolling guy rightly noted about the game: it is a moral fantasy for disillusioned and jaded people (or for those who choose to become jaded because it's a convenient way to live, given that our world is pretty fucked as well). Simon used to be basically a high-functioning mental case, with no aspirations, erections (or the will to act on them), and a strict sense of duty (just to avoid becoming an actual mental case). He is depressed because the world seems fucked beyond redemption, so it feels wrong and/or impossible even to produce good old endorphine and dopamine.

But then succubi happen. Yay, the power of sex fueling you to be better and pay your dues to the world in a fulfilling way!

I agree with the general sense of your take on what kind of fantasy TLS is trying to provide, I'd just contend with the idea that it would be exclusively for jaded/disillusioned people or that Simon's character is wholly defined by his frustrations.

On Simon's character, while he definitely has a lot of frustrations and is not living a fulfilling life previous to the game's start, I'd say he is very far from a mental case by the standards of the game's universe. He is paying for Robin's tuition through the Stineford Academy and he is able to keep some positive relationships with some of the people that live in Feroholm, like Ina and Kara.

Even what you could argue as being the thing he is stuck on the most, which are his attempts to work the Chosen into something useful, it is not really an aimless endeavor he is sticking by purely due to his discipline or a "strict sense of duty" (duty to who?). That job is something he chose for himself and rationalized as being his best way to contribute towards defeating the Incubus King. He tried working in armies, he wasn't a very good fighter/soldier, he tried working as more of a commander/planner when he worked for the church and in the inquisition, and even if he wasn't doing a bad work, he saw plenty of good people getting killed trying to carry out his plans and making little headway into anything concrete that could stop the IK. He travelled the world looking for other sources of power that could defeat the IK, but in the end his best option ended up being trying to train the Chosen. It was as much of a long shot as anything else, but at least he felt less bad about the people that he could lose while working on it since the Chosen are insufferable little shits.

This is just to say that Simon always had a very clear aspiration: "defeating the Incubus King", but the reality of it is that he was already in his fifties and it still seemed like a nigh insurmountable problem, he was still going to work at it for as long as he could but it did not seem solvable in his lifetime.

With all of that said, I guess to me the fantasy TLS is trying to provide is less "save the world while having a lot of sex in a fun and fulfilling way!" and more "Saving the world is much more achievable now. Know all these crazy plans you made up in your head when thinking of how you could change the world? They are now feasible so let's start working on them". The sex with heaps of hyper-competent and attractive women is the cherry on top, but the core of the TLS fantasy to me is a "power fantasy" that gives the impression of being grounded. In it you can achieve the most absurdly high-reaching goals imaginable, but all of it gives the impression that it was "earned" and it made use of all the previous preparation, development, and overall mental labor a person could do during their lives previous to actually having a chance to make it work.

 

[mahligl]

I'd just contend with the idea that it would be exclusively for jaded/disillusioned people or that Simon's character is wholly defined by his frustrations.

For the first point, never claimed it was.

For the second point, I somewhat agree that Simon's story can be framed your way, but I never said he wasn't high-functioning. The fact that he fights the Incubus King in the "only" realistic way–the way that actually doesn't work–seems telling. Choosing a goal you can achieve only through miracle and pursuing it for years, moving from one disappointment to another–if that is not a simile, then only because similes are stupid.

And about your question of duty–I don't really know what to answer. I guess, Simon would say that it is duty to his wife (which is bollocks). Don't be happy, choose an unachievable goal, don't have sex (all three things aren't what she would've approved). But then it all starts to work – and almost against his will. It's like the world decides to intervene, saying: 'Alright, I heard you, you can do it, but not in a stupid way that you've decided upon. Let's better utilize your hidden actual fantasies on power and what to do with it'.

I don't claim all that was Sierra Lee's intention. It is just that this is how the root of this particular power fantasy seems to look like to me.

 

[manscout]

For the second point, I somewhat agree that Simon's story can be framed your way, but I never said he wasn't high-functioning. The fact that he fights the Incubus King in the "only" realistic way–the way that actually doesn't work–seems telling. Choosing a goal you can achieve only through miracle and pursuing it for years, moving from one disappointment to another–if that is not a simile, then only because similes are stupid.

It is kinda like sisyphus, it is depressing to think about but if you can imagine him happy, then he isn't depressed, in a strict sense. Again, I don't think Simon was happy, and there are some sure signs of his resignation when it came to his own personal wellbeing but...

And about your question of duty–I don't really know what to answer. I guess, Simon would say that it is duty to his wife (which is bollocks). Don't be happy, choose an unachievable goal, don't have sex (all three things aren't what she would've approved). But then it all starts to work – and almost against his will. It's like the world decides to intervene, saying: 'Alright, I heard you, you can do it, but not in a stupid way that you've decided upon. Let's better utilize your hidden actual fantasies on power and what to do with it'.

I think the main point is that I wouldn't say Simon chose the goal of defeating the Incubus King, it was one of those things where the times he lived in chose for him. He saw his homeland torn asunder, lost both his parents, and was drafted into an army, all of this due to a singular enemy that was plain superhuman.

Even after Ardoheim negotiated an armistice with the Incubus King's domains, he joined the church's army to keep fighting the Incubus King on other fronts. It wasn't Wendis' death that made defeating the Incubus King his goal. Maybe you could argue that it helped solidify it for him, but I think he could never move on from the fact the Incubus King existed right on the other side of the border and they didn't have an answer for him and all the destruction he would bring when he went on a warpath again. You could argue that it was an unhealthy fixation, but I think all the concerns he had with the IK's threat were perfectly warranted.

And even then it is not like it consumed every aspect of his existence, the fact he went on to adopt a child (something Wendis was never interested in having so really can't link this to her memory or anything like that), raised her and supported her to achieve her own goals (it is not like he raised Robin for the sole purpose of carrying on his fight against the Incubus King) shows that he was able to have other goals in his life, just that defeating the IK was a goal he was never able to let go (and honestly I wouldn't even say that he should have, regardless of how impossible it might have seemed to be).

Calling him a "high-functioning mental case" over his unending pursuit of this goal would be like saying the same of every humanitarian aid worker, or environmental activist, or supporter of nuclear disarmament...which when said out loud actually doesn't sound that incorrect, but then I'd have to argue that the world could use less "sane people" and more "mental cases" such as those.

And despite what his stoic ass might lead you to believe, I really doubt he never allowed himself to be happy after Wendis died, I don't think he could have raised Robin as lovingly as he did if he had been miserable and depressed the whole time. But I do agree you can criticize his methods, and that the lack of sex is a bit sus (but honestly watching the Chosen up their usual antics could probably make anyone a bit averse to their own sexuality).

 

[Bonercat]

so what effect or outcome if we married the queen/princess to the hero or other candidate?

 

[Bonercat]

Played a little more and I have something else to say. The plot is naive nonsense that began with a ridiculous attempt to ridicule heroic fantasy, by the middle of the first chapter it itself turns into the most sterile and cliched heroic fantasy.

true i agree with you on that one, the rest are personal preference. i still remember how edgy or holding grudge early simon are especially against a single bartender who sell alcohol who just simply being rude because he know simon dont drink alcohol, and later give excuse that "its a symptom not the problem" or something like that after seeing another bartender replace it, still dont get the logic why he need to kill the bartender though when he can easily command yarra to seduce or use her magic to conceal himself which he use alot after pillaging the bar, surprisingly no one notice when he haul all that alcohol to the edge of the town with a wagon like a sore thumb for such dilapidated village with no merchant pass by for so long nor anyone suspect him to be the bartender killer, which realistically that action should make him into an easy culprit and wanted criminal which can result in him getting exposed which he supposed to not want to happen (which i initially though gonna happen), also part where he dont even think a single bit about altina the elves chick after leaving her on her own to be raped, no internal regret or anything despite he was supposed to be regretting sacrificing ppl lorewise, also cant think a good reason for early simon to allow such female in a journey to a rapist filled monster while also having hero who well known to be sex addict and rapist (excluding aka which are a mercenary and total stranger at that time and get recommended by the mercenary leader so she kinda disposable which end up getting plapped by the hero anyway, while in some dialogue it clear simon are friend with altina before meeting with the hero), which ironically make me agree with commander geoff accusation about simon.

its seems to me sierra lee are making the story on the fly rather than fully planning it from the beginning hence the sudden turn or change of the tone of the story.

 

[DistantNeko]

true i agree with you on that one, the rest are personal preference. i still remember how edgy or holding grudge early simon are especially against a single bartender who sell alcohol who just simply being rude because he know simon dont drink alcohol, and later give excuse that "its a symptom not the problem" or something like that after seeing another bartender replace it, still dont get the logic why he need to kill the bartender though when he can easily command yarra to seduce or use her magic to conceal himself which he use alot after pillaging the bar, surprisingly no one notice when he haul all that alcohol to the edge of the town with a wagon like a sore thumb for such dilapidated village with no merchant pass by for so long nor anyone suspect him to be the bartender killer, which realistically that action should make him into an easy culprit and wanted criminal which can result in him getting exposed which he supposed to not want to happen (which i initially though gonna happen), also part where he dont even think a single bit about altina the elves chick after leaving her on her own to be raped, no internal regret or anything despite he was supposed to be regretting sacrificing ppl lorewise, also cant think a good reason for early simon to allow such female in a journey to a rapist filled monster while also having hero who well known to be sex addict and rapist (excluding aka which are a mercenary and total stranger at that time and get recommended by the mercenary leader so she kinda disposable which end up getting plapped by the hero anyway, while in some dialogue it clear simon are friend with altina before meeting with the hero), which ironically make me agree with commander geoff accusation about simon.

its seems to me sierra lee are making the story on the fly rather than fully planning it from the beginning hence the sudden turn or change of the tone of the story.

Did we play the same game?

I thought it was clear that Simon can hold grudges (ala Wynn). It's not surprising in the slightest. He certainly wasn't edgy though I'm not sure how that conclusion was reached.

The (First) bartender was pretty sleazy (iirc) and he was a symptom of a bigger problem. Killing him didn't resolve the problem but it at least stopped it for how ever short amount of time it was. Some residents probably felt the same way about the bartender but who knows.

Feroholm really didn't have such a criminal system (it was pretty backwater/extremely poor) and I doubt the residents themselves cared all that much about each other or would notice/care if the bartender went missing or was replaced.

For Altina, at the time Simon couldn't have done much (and probably seen the same if not much worse prior to that). So dwelling on it wouldn't have done much to begin with when it's just "another rape due to the Incubus King (forces)."

Chosen One's wise, it was stated by Simon that he felt it was the only way to defeat the Incubus King at the time despite their strange quirks. They were the one's with significant power at the time, and not Simon. Simon was just some nobody who was just going through the motions and being realistic. To him they had more of a chance to defeat them then he ever did.
That would of course change soon but yeah.

Aka was pretty much raped by that Chosen One though and the dialogue made it pretty clear as such.