I disagree and let me tell you, its hard to be around a depressed person you care about, it makes you feel helpless. If you ask a depressed person "Yo you up to having some sexy time with a girl?", he says no and its done but you may be able to set up some scenario where he/she feels comfortable and distracted by their usual worries and is able to enjoy themself.
Yeah, that's fair, I entirely agree that being around a depressed person is hard, and adds a lot of stress.
I also agree that, at face value, Vicky inviting people over to distract the MC isn't bad in itself. But that isn't
all she did, is it?
I likely would've agreed to meet Linda outside of work when she broached the subject. The conversation distracted him, and in this moment he would've wanted more of that.
Or, he would've declined knowing he'd cancel their future plans anyway. Though not having seen this behavior from the MC, I wouldn't use it to rationalize that choice.
She is "pushy" in a sense that shes trying to get him out of his shell as its obviously doing nothing good for him (and by extension herself and ben).
Ben and Vicky are out of ideas what to do and just try whatever is possible to help him to get a drive for living again. Kinda everything is worth a try at this point and better than him being alone at home in his thoughts.
So you can either try to come up with solutions like working again or meeting girls(which can backfire/not work) or do nothing and hope for the best for the person to get out of their hole themself. Problem with doing nothing is that youre gonna blame yourself if the worst case happens and it DID happen in this AVN, MC was considering jumping.
Right. Like I said, she's not being malicious, but it's also fair to take her own motivations into account.
It's also about what she isn't doing. She isn't taking the MC out on the town herself, she isn't slowly pushing his boundaries and let him be open to new experiences. And I grant that this probably isn't in her personality, that she's a woman who goes after her goals in a direct way, a woman of action, not just words. But, even so, Vicky, as a trusted friend, is in a way better position to actively help the MC than Linda would.
What happens when you push a depressed person too hard? You risk getting shut out as well, and make this person retreat even more.
Vicky may know the MC well enough to suspect this won't happen, that his kindness prevents him from acting out. At the same time, this is an exceptional situation they're in.
If this is like you say, a Hail Mary (which I do agree with), then I still wonder why she went about it this way, why her focus toward Linda is about them potentially hooking up, instead of tempering expectations and just have them spend some time together, and letting them know each other casually. Tempering her expectations that it'll likely be a long road for Linda to get him to open up.
I think her talking this way to Linda is a
carrot. A way to entice her to wear a sexy bikini and even being there. Linda seems very submissive/shy, and Vicky likely considers this the best
strategy to get Linda to come out and have
some effect on the MC. But if it's just about providing a distraction for the MC, surely there are easier ways to go about it.
You make it sound like "why didnt she just waited until he was ready?!" but there may would never have been a "ready" again, even less if he would have taken the jump. I feel you fail to consider how fucked up the MCs mind state is and how helpless Ben and Vicky are/feel.
You expect them to watch their friend dying slowly and call it "meddling" when they try to change something about it.
No, this isn't what I'm saying at all, and quite the perversion of it. What I'm saying is that Vicky should've done some due diligence first, before getting Linda's hopes up and trying to entice the MC into hooking up with her.
She doesn't know what the MC is ready for because she hasn't checked in with him. This is the reverse of watching him slowly die. It's about having the information to best help him, not herself, not Linda.
For instance, consider that meeting with Sarah is all the MC can handle right now. Vicky would then know that he is progressing, and that she could give it some time before pushing Linda into the picture. Or, she could do it anyway, thinking that this might be Linda's last chance to get ahead of other women before they snatch him up, or that he isn't progressing quickly enough, or needs more variety of choice... Or whatever potential reasons she might have to do what she does.
MC is an adult and can always simply say no to anything if he really doesnt want to and Linda obviosuly seemed to be crushing on him for quite some time already but struggling to make a move on her boss, so vicky gave her a push and kinda greenlighted it.
Vicky even tried to prepare Linda to not get too much expecations even if a one time thing works out, which takes pressure from the situation for the mc from my pov.
Right, the MC can say no, and Vicky did temper Linda's expectations somewhat. At the same time, getting Linda to come out in the here and now took a lot of effort and planning. Energy that, if completely for the MC's benefit, could've been spent in other constructive ways. Why does she think that the MC has a need to get laid? If anything, Linda has a way larger urge to get laid by the MC than the other way around. Maybe it's a '
two birds, one stone'-thing, but it looks to me that her priorities are mostly with Linda and herself, not the MC.
It seems we do agree that Vicky had her own motivation to get Linda in the picture? It's not just about doing something for the MC, it's also about doing something for Linda. And we also agree that she's doing this to help Ben and herself, so they don't have to watch helplessly as the MC potentially self-destructs, that she can say she tried to help.
But then why is it far-fetched for me (the player) to dislike her for the way she went about it? That her acting while being uninformed is a kind of arrogance? That her pushing and prodding might very well be counter-productive, but that this thought doesn't enter her mind?
Her entire focus is on Linda seducing the MC, she designed everything about this encounter to that end. Why can't I call that manipulation? Is it just because this word has a negative connotation?
I really dont get why you feel so strongly about this, would you be this annoyed by the behavior too if it would be ben trying to set his bro up? Or is it because of loyality to ella that you feel its not right?
Honestly, I'm more invested in this exchange of perspectives than I am about my opinion about Vicky. It seems to me we've noticed the same things and just interpreted them differently.
I call it manipulation, you seem to see it more as an act of compassion toward the MC. Both can be true in my mind, I don't think she was malicious.
I see it as tasteless and arrogant, while your interpretation is much more complimentary.
If Ben had done the exact same thing in exactly the same way, then my opinion wouldn't be different. He would've spent a lot of energy to get Linda to appear with him on the MC's doorstep, ready to appeal to his baser instincts. And I'd still wonder if he's whoring out the MC for Linda's benefit, and/or whoring out Linda for the MC's benefit, and why he decided this was
the way to go about it and help the MC.
Loyalty to Ella does play a role in an indirect way. I did often wonder if the MC was feeling any guilt or shame when an LI gets closer, but after talking to
m0us3r I now better understand that I should use my own perspective to guide this, and not expect the MC to tell me what he's going through.
I don't feel that Vicky betrayed Ella's memory by trying to push a woman onto the MC in any case... Just not discounting the possibility that Vicky thinks Linda would be a good slot-in for the empty place in their family, or that she'd prefer a known quantity instead of a potential stranger.
Hell, for all I know, there's something on the path while working for Ben that happens which adds urgency from Linda's perspective, making her the one reaching out to Vicky for help. I wouldn't know. If there is, this would change my interpretation somewhat, since it would change the driving force of Vicky doing what she thinks is best and setting up this event, into one where she's doing what's asked of her.
