VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.4.0] [Ceolag]

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

While that is commendable of her, she has lied to the MC for years. My MC can't trust her. If you are okay with that, that is fine and I'm not saying anyone should like or dislike her. I am just confirming why that is not enough for me. If I am in a relationship then there better not be secrets between us or it won't end well. After my first marriage, I don't do secrets. Had she remained just friends then I would have no problem if my friend had a big secret, partners are a different story.

I actually am saying anyone who trusts her after what she did, deserves everything happen to them. I don't understand what is so hard to understand, whatever are the reasons she had she lied to MC from the beginning. IF she was even a good friend let alone being girlfriend, she would not be involved with MC. Be on friendly terms with him and protect him as your duty I have no problem with that but if you start a relationship with someone you do not lie to them, period. So if she really loved MC, as she said one day MC was going to learn everything, you'll start the relationship afterwards. If she was afraid of losing MC, she had to choose MC over her cult and be open about it.

As I see it, people are already aware of this because most of them say they will never trust MC's family ever again. When it comes to Kaija though, they start thinking with their dicks even though situations of Kaija and MC's family are exactly the same. She could have handled it as Fiona did and she would be in clear. If she said there are secrets she can't share but when the time comes she will be open about them and gave MC a choice, then everything would be okay. Being okay with the secrets would have been on MC at that point. Having secrets and telling lie, deceiving people are 2 separate things.

 

[Maviarab]

As I see it, people are already aware of this because most of them say they will never trust MC's family ever again. When it comes to Kaija though, they start thinking with their dicks even though situations of Kaija and MC's family are exactly the same. She could have handled it as Fiona did and she would be in clear. If she said there are secrets she can't share but when the time comes she will be open about them and gave MC a choice, then everything would be okay. Being okay with the secrets would have been on MC at that point. Having secrets and telling lie, deceiving people are 2 separate things.

Bottom line folks, especially DarkOs31 is that even on her loyal love path..she still puts the old Temps first. Ahead of you. She still lied to you....you! Even on her loyal love path, you are secondary...always have been, always will, the scene in Neverwhere proves that. You make your own way back...you stay safe...I have to do this. Ummm...isn't that why you're here with me in Neverwhere..to keep me safe? Just words at the end of the day. She is supposed to protect you...you....but she's never fucking around...and even when she is, she will abandon you in a heartbeat, as is proved in the story.

You want to forgive her...you go for it..but do not undermine what she has done and do not forget her 2 other paths where she doesn't give a fuck about you. You're new here, so will forgive you but we have been discussing this since the VN was first released. Don't try and educate us on her paths please.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Bottom line folks, especially DarkOs31 is that even on her loyal love path..she still puts the old Temps first. Ahead of you. She still lied to you....you! Even on her loyal love path, you are secondary...always have been, always will, the scene in Neverwhere proves that. You make your back...you stay safe...I have to do this. Ummm..isn't that why you're here with me..to keep me safe? Just words at the end of the day. she supposed to protect you...you....but she never fucking around...and even when she is, she wuill abandon you in a heartbeat, as is proved in the story.

You want to forgive her...you go for it..but do not undermine what she has done and do not forget her 2 other paths where she doesn't give a fuck about you. You're new here, so will forgive you but we have been discussing this since the VN was first released. Don't try and educate us on her paths please.

When people are like Dessolos then I do understand them. He is aware what Kaija did was wrong, he is probably aware MC will always be secondary to Kaija. He accepts it as it is. He does not try to justify what she did or won't justify what she will do. He simply says I am a forgiving person, I know what she did was wrong but I believe she is genuine in her apology so I forgave her and I do accept whatever she brings in the future. I respect that, but when people try to justify it that is simply annoying or being Joshy and I don't know which is worse.

 

[ThorinKing]

It's amusing seeing discussions of "loyalty". I've only downloaded and haven't started the VN yet, but it seems the guys playing this believe that they should receive complete trust and loyalty from any woman they show interest in, over and above any loyalty they should have to their own family, etc. This same MC is likely sleeping with any woman with a pulse and a hole, not showing any loyalty to her whatsoever.

You want loyalty, don't be a dog and put a ring on it. If you aren't willing to fully commit and be wholly faithful and wholly loyal, quitcherbitchin'. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If it weren't for double standards, I'm betting most of you would have no standards at all.

 

[xapican]

If I'm sincere, I'm only holding against for the sake of sport and to piss Mavria, Defen, DS, GOA, and some other off a bit, plus it is soo much fun seeing Joshy simp..... But look ,great story and great character development I'm shure you you will enjoy at the fullest,

 

[Dark Silence]

It's amusing seeing discussions of "loyalty". I've only downloaded and haven't started the VN yet, but it seems the guys playing this believe that they should receive complete trust an loyalty from any woman they show interest in, over and above any loyalty they should have to their own family, etc. This same MC is likely sleeping with any woman with a pulse and a hole, not showing any loyalty to her whatsoever.

You want loyalty, don't be a dog and put a ring on it. If you aren't willing to fully commit and be wholly faithful and wholly loyal, quitcherbitchin'. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If it weren't for double standards, I'm betting most of you would have no standards at all.

What tf are you on about, bro? Technically, the only girl we can bang is Kaija. The so-called girlfriend. We can flirt with others if we want. There's no promiscuity goin on.

But fuck Kaija. I didn't flirt with anyone else, even after she showed her true colors. I restarted, avoided havin sex with her and then started my playthru with Fiona.

 

[xapican]

What tf are you on about, bro? Technically, the only girl we can bang is Kaija. The so-called girlfriend. We can flirt with others if we want. There's no promiscuity goin on.

But fuck Kaija. I didn't flirt with anyone else, even after she showed her true colors. I restarted, avoided havin sex with her and then started my playthru with Fiona.

You forgett Anisa the pick up at the Bar, and with your Boss you are almost there....

 

[Dark Silence]

You forgett Anisa the pick up at the Bar, and with your Boss you are almost there....

At least I didn't fuck anyone. Sorry that most people are manwhores.

 

[xapican]

manwhores.

I prefer the term "boyslut" but I'm not most people....

 

[ename144]

Bottom line folks, especially DarkOs31 is that even on her loyal love path..she still puts the old Temps first. Ahead of you. She still lied to you....you! Even on her loyal love path, you are secondary...always have been, always will, the scene in Neverwhere proves that. You make your own way back...you stay safe...I have to do this. Ummm...isn't that why you're here with me in Neverwhere..to keep me safe? Just words at the end of the day. She is supposed to protect you...you....but she's never fucking around...and even when she is, she will abandon you in a heartbeat, as is proved in the story.

I disagree. Sure, Kaija's clearly loyal to the Templars and will favor their needs over the MC's wants, but I don't find anything particularly objectionable in that. She's not the MC's wife, after all. It's to be expected that sometimes even people she prioritizes will have to wait in line. That doesn't mean she's some sort of weak link, it means she takes all her responsibilities seriously. The one time the needs of Templars and the MC were in direct opposition (on her love path), she chose the MC. That does count for something.

I'm certainly not going to try to argue anyone into liking Kaija, but personally I find her as trustworthy as any of the other LIs (with the obvious caveat that Medb is currently on an opposing side).

 

[Dark Silence]

I prefer the term "boyslut" but I'm not most people....

You're a boytoy. I guess I assumed you were a man and not a boy. My apologies.

 

[xapican]

Aww thank you for making me loose at least 55 yrs. you are really a good friend !

 

[Dark Silence]

Aww thank you for making me loose at least 55 yrs. you are really a good friend !

Age doesn't necessarily mean man. You called yourself a boy. I'm also in my fifties and I'm a man, not a boy. Well, make that an old manchild.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

If I'm sincere, I'm only holding against for the sake of sport and to piss Mavria, Defen, DS, GOA, and some other off a bit, plus it is soo much fun seeing Joshy simp..... But look ,great story and great character development I'm shure you you will enjoy at the fullest,

Sorry, you failed. I don't think you have pissed me off once. You better pick up your game

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

It's amusing seeing discussions of "loyalty". I've only downloaded and haven't started the VN yet, but it seems the guys playing this believe that they should receive complete trust an loyalty from any woman they show interest in, over and above any loyalty they should have to their own family, etc. This same MC is likely sleeping with any woman with a pulse and a hole, not showing any loyalty to her whatsoever.

You want loyalty, don't be a dog and put a ring on it. If you aren't willing to fully commit and be wholly faithful and wholly loyal, quitcherbitchin'. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If it weren't for double standards, I'm betting most of you would have no standards at all.

Obviously you haven't played the game. Do yourself a favour and play the game, until then, shush, the adults are talking.

 

[Dessolos]

I disagree. Sure, Kaija's clearly loyal to the Templars and will favor their needs over the MC's wants, but I don't find anything particularly objectionable in that. She's not the MC's wife, after all. It's to be expected that sometimes even people she prioritizes will have to wait in line. That doesn't mean she's some sort of weak link, it means she takes all her responsibilities seriously. The one time the needs of Templars and the MC were in direct opposition (on her love path), she chose the MC. That does count for something.

I'm certainly not going to try to argue anyone into liking Kaija, but personally I find her as trustworthy as any of the other LIs (with the obvious caveat that Medb is currently on an opposing side).

this is pretty much why I find it easy to trust and forgive her. At least on the love path still need to play the others at some point.

 

[Dark Silence]

this is pretty much why I find it easy to trust and forgive her. At least on the love path still need to play the others at some point.

On the love path, she still lies and hides shit from you. Fuck Kaija and not in a good way.

 

[ThorinKing]

You're a boytoy. I guess I assumed you were a man and not a boy. My apologies.

In futa games he's a boitoi.

 

[Dessolos]

On the love path, she still lies and hides shit from you. Fuck Kaija and not in a good way.

I personally don't see the lies as a big issue because of the context behind them. That and well she was trained at a young age so I know there is some brainwashing there most likely. So even if she knew hiding such a secret is a bad idea at a young age id imagine it would be hard for her to say no to them. As if I recall correctly they took her in after something terrible happened to her. So I put most of the blame on the Templars and the father not her. Now that isn't to say she is blameless entirely cause she isn't and really there is no defending her lies after entering a relationship but I do blame her way less than the rest. The only thing I put 100% of the blame on Kaija for is entering a romantic relationship knowing she has to lie. Otherwise I put maybe something like 20-30% of the blame on her and rest on the Templars. This would of been enough for me to forgive her but maybe not enough to make her a main LI of mine.

This next part is what made me trust her and make her my main LI. That would be the fact that she fought against the order on the love path when they wanted her to be your Girlfriend and only became our Girlfriend when she wanted to on her own terms. Because of that that it showed to me she genuinely cares for the MC otherwise she wouldn't of disobeyed that order and fought against it. While yes she still has loyalty and probably does put the Templars ahead of us most of the time but I wouldn't say her loyalty is 100% for the templars and duty anymore on the love path because of this. I think it comes down to the context of the situation if she puts us or the Templars first and I could see her loyalty for them wavering in the future.

While you may dislike Kaija I don't think she really is that horrible to say fuck her, even on her other paths I'd doubt id say she is horrible cause of how I see things and the context. I think she is misguided and probably a bit brainwashed id say. I don't see her as a love interest that is black and white if she is bad or not. I think when it comes down to if you like Kaija it's based on you and your own personality , life experiences and believes.

( Not trying to change your mind about her or anything, but just sharing how I see things. I'm not that good at explaining myself without it sounding like im trying to change your mind. )

But fuck all the other Templars and the father they can rot / burn at the stake.

 

[Dark Silence]

I personally don't see the lies as a big issue because of the context behind them. That and well she was trained at a young age so I know there is some brainwashing there most likely. So even if she knew hiding such a secret is a bad idea at a young age id imagine it would be hard for her to say no to them. As if I recall correctly they took her in after something terrible happened to her. So I put most of the blame on the Templars and the father not her. Now that isn't to say she is blameless entirely cause she isn't and really there is no defending her lies after entering a relationship but I do blame her way less than the rest. The only thing I put 100% of the blame on Kaija for is entering a romantic relationship knowing she has to lie. Otherwise I put maybe something like 20-30% of the blame on her and rest on the Templars. This would of been enough for me to forgive her but maybe not enough to make her a main LI of mine.

This next part is what made me trust her and make her my main LI. That would be the fact that she fought against the order on the love path when they wanted her to be your Girlfriend and only became our Girlfriend when she wanted to on her own terms. Because of that that it showed to me she genuinely cares for the MC otherwise she wouldn't of disobeyed that order and fought against it. While yes she still has loyalty and probably does put the Templars ahead of us most of the time but I wouldn't say her loyalty is 100% for the templars and duty anymore on the love path because of this. I think it comes down to the context of the situation if she puts us or the Templars first and I could see her loyalty for them wavering in the future.

While you may dislike Kaija I don't think she really is that horrible to say fuck her, even on her other paths I'd doubt id say she is horrible cause of how I see things and the context. I think she is misguided and probably a bit brainwashed id say. I don't see her as a love interest that is black and white if she is bad or not. I think when it comes down to if you like Kaija it's based on you and your own personality , life experiences and believes.

( Not trying to change your mind about her or anything, but just sharing how I see things. I'm not that good at explaining myself without it sounding like im trying to change your mind. )

But fuck all the other Templars and the father they can rot / burn at the stake.

TL;DR, bro. I know yours and Joshy92's reasonin behind it. I just don't agree. There's two things that I absolutely hate:
1. Lying
2. Cheating

No. She didn't cheat as far as we know. But she does keep secrets. After all the years that they've been together, she doesn't know where her loyalty is. Yes, she broke protocol to save his ass, but technically we saved her ass when we killed that merc. All of that before we found out about the lies. We're even. She can go her way and I can go mine. She's so lost in the Templar doctrine I can't trust her. Which is why I restarted and went with Fiona. You know I tried to stick it out. But I just couldn't.