- Apr 8, 2021
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God damn it, I absolutely fucking hate Kaija.
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- Thread starter 7767
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- Jul 26, 2023
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Agree with all of that. She is truly a masterpiece creation.
The only thing I would add is your comment "I see so many defending her with the whole "She disobeyed her orders to come save the MC when he was in danger!"
Full disclosure, I am a confirmed "don't trust Kaija" person.
I don't believe she disobeyed any orders to save MC (I acknowledge she claims she did, but she is a confirmed liar, however noble the reasons). Her prime directive is to protect MC. Any chain of command will tell you, your prime directive will ALWAYS override a day to day command. You day to day command cannot be at odds with your prime directive. Therefore, she has not disobeyed any Templar rules, in fact, she followed them. IMO.
- May 11, 2020
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TL DR : you're developing a sadomasochistic Relationship with Kaija
I love how cold as Ice she is when you make a playtrough with 0 relshipoints
- Jul 17, 2021
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- Sep 29, 2023
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But that would mean the entire council, including Linnae is in on that lie. That doesn't make sense to me. If Kaija breaks off from her mission to come to you, there will be dialog that acknowledges that she did exactly that.
- Jul 26, 2023
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I'm aware of dialogue between Kaija & MC that she broke off mission to save him. I'm not aware of any dialogue from Linnae or any council member that indicates she is in any trouble for doing it. (If that happened, I have missed it).
But even so, without the 5th vote from MC Dad, they cannot override her prime directive which is to protect MC, which she did. I can't see how she can be in trouble or punished for doing what she was ordered to do and has done for a majority of her life.
- May 11, 2020
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Yeah military chain of command works that way true, the only thing is If she were re-asigned for another task, dismissing her primary directive, what seemed to happen in this case, MC protection was assigned to the team protecting the Callisters.
She was never the one in charge.
Strange that in the moment where the Greatmaster is abducted, the only one who is tasked with his safety is drawn out and given her another mission.
The other wicked thing is; although Kaija lied, she doesn't lie everytime she speaks, in none of the paths, one thing is consistent in all 3 paths of hers, is that she cares about their friendship.
(don't come with she should have thought of it before ...and similar) Is all valid, what I'm trying to say none of you did take a wrong decision out of fear loosing a valuable friendship ?
- Jul 26, 2023
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Please, don't think I'm not having a go at her. I'm not. I was trying to point out (however poorly), that she is an accomplished liar., it's just part of who she was trained to be. I like the friendship path with Kaija best (because I don't feel I can trust her and I need complete trust in a relationship), and she clearly values their friendship. Lying to him, is just what she has done, and so good at it, he had no idea there was an issue. So it is hard to believe she is telling the truth at anytime, you'd never know.
I also think it extremely suspicious for her to be called away right when MC needs protection the most. But, in my understanding, for her to be in trouble with the council, they must have directly told her to NOT save MC, thereby overriding her prime directive (or she has done nothing wrong). To do that, they must have 3 of the 4 votes agreeing to it. If 3 or all 4 did this, it is evidence of a widespread conspiracy throughout the council.
If they just reassigned her and she broke mission to save him and she is not in trouble, then there is no evidence of conspiracy (doesn't mean there isn't one though). It would simply be, Why did you it, Oh ok. No problem.
I just went and checked, and Kaija admits that she broke off mission (in both paths), but she does not say that she is in trouble for it. I can't actually think of anytime anybody says Kaija is in trouble for breaking off mission, just that she did. Can you?
That's strange, wasn't she told to break off current mission to assist MC in non-love path previously?
90% sure that's how it was.
Love route - Broke orders and came to save MC. Non-love route - Was told to break current task and go save MC.
Waiting on Steam release to replay, so can't check...
- Jul 26, 2023
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By 2 paths I meant the love path & the friendship path. The 2 where she broke mission. I didn't mean the 3rd (non-love/hate path), I haven't played it, but I understand you're right.
- Jul 25, 2017
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As someone who likes Kaija this is why I like her and is my favorite ( as 0.4 still need to play 0.5)
Yeah the disobeyed order thing never really crossed my mind and like Milton said it really wasn't disobeying a order. The reasons I like her is cause : She saved / tried to save the MC, the lie about neverwhere / the templars is kind of unbelievable without showing the MC and she would get in trouble for it. Also she did try to disobey the order on the love path to become the MC's girlfriend for the purpose of making her job easier. So I personally believe she only did so later because she wanted too. That and I really believe the Templars brainwashed her from a early age so she probably doesn't even see or think beyond duty to see how it could effect their relationship until it's too late.
That and im a pretty understanding person so with the context we are provided currently I was fine and able to accept and forgive her. That being said I do completely trust her in terms of a relationship is concerned but I'm also wary of her when it comes to loyalty for now if she is ordered to do something at least if the order won't put the MC in harms way intentionally. But I do believe her loyalty is gonna start to shift away from the Templars over time.
- Sep 29, 2023
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Not a wrong decision on the level of "Let's start an intimate relationship because it's convenient", no.
- Sep 29, 2023
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No, the origin of the relationship is the same in both cases. Only on the love path, she will have caught actual feelings after "going with the flow" for a while. She also admits (again on the love path), that it was only after Alex was in danger, that her priority shifted away from the Templars and toward him. This means that all these years of being with him, her heart wasn't entirely in it.
- Oct 17, 2022
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Pretty much my playthrough
That was pretty cold behaviour from Kajia and for MC - harsh waking up to the reality.
I might be wrong of course, but I think people who is not fond of Kajia - played her no-love path first, and its really hard to recover after that and readjust. Especially if you immerse yourself.
Like I said some time ago - there is no hatred from me, but there is no trust/affection either.
I would say your argument "understanding/forgiving person" speaks rather more about you as a person than Kajia
, - thats what I would normally say, but in this case the fact that you're using this argument also tells a lot about her as well.What I am trying to say - that's not very "bulletproof" argument in her defence hahah, in my opinion at least.
- Jul 25, 2017
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i'll have to replay the game when the update comes out on steam and see for myself but from what I recall she fought against the order lost and then the grandmaster stepped in so it was up to her. That's why I believe and still do it was because she wanted to not because of the job , at least initially. I'm sure it did become about the job at some point. So even if her heart wasn't in it at first the fact she wanted to fight against the order is enough for me that she did have some feelings at least.
Well wasn't really trying to defend her all that much just saying why I liked her. Tho I do still think the whole thing about having to see neverwhere and the Templar HQ to believe it is the only real defense for that lie and a valid one. The rest like entering a relationship knowing she would have to lie not so much but not a deal breaker to me once I learned the context and saw how tried to save us even if it is a prime directive order. That and I put more of the blame on the Templar leadership than her tbh.I would say your argument "understanding/forgiving person" speaks rather more about you as a person than Kajia
What I am trying to say - that's not very "bulletproof" argument in her defence hahah, in my opinion at least.
- Sep 29, 2023
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That's correct. She refused the assignment to seduce Alex. At this point, the grandmaster wasn't aware of Kaija being asked this, and he put a stop to it when it came to light.
She said it herself, the friendship was real, then she got used to being with Alex, and just went with the flow. It made things easier.
Then, depending on player choices, she'll either have fallen in love with him for real, or saw the relationship in a more utilitarian way.
I wouldn't call it feelings, but self-respect and honor, in a way. Though what she ended up doing wasn't much better. If you're not on the love path with her, her behavior is cold and calculating. By being in a relationship with Alex, she's stopping him from finding happiness with someone who actually returns his feelings.
On the love path, I don't think things are much better. She still puts her job first, the relationship and Alex second. And, I think you can see that in her demeanor as well. The first time I saw Kaija laugh was in Neverwhere with Alex.
Thanks!...Oberon?
I mean, I don't want to judge you or anything but...
*judges you*
I needed that laugh after reaching 'Daughter of the Sun' at the end of CH 5.
I just finished yesterday as I decided to restart from the beginning so that everything was fresh in my mind when I started CH 5 - worth it for me!
The Finnabair story arc was exceptional!
It is a rare AVN where I find myself reaching for tissues because I become invested in a side character and the suddenness of her loss hits me so hard...
The ceremony at the end was moving and quite sad; the MC was in the presence of not just the Alfar King Oberon and the Queens Mab and Titania, but also of Finnabair's father.
It got even worse with the words of parting, when I saw Medb call Finnabair Ainu ... daughter...
That was a tough goodbye!
Even with the sadness, though, I also enjoyed getting to know both Finnabair and Medb - not realizing just how close their relationship was or how much they shared...
As I made this post, I literally just realized that I called not just Queen Mab, but Finnabair and her Mother bitches... fuck me...
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I Really need CH 6 now, so I can find out the details of what happened and either redress the wrong done or make Finnabair's death mean something.[/ISPOILER]
Cheers!!
- Jul 26, 2023
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I understand why she couldn't tell MC and actually respect her devotion to the Templars and her beliefs. The fact that she had to lie, is on MC Dad, not her. I'm personally, more pissed at him, than Kaija. It's the reason why I play the friendship path and am happy to be building a friendship with her (it's one of those playing MC as myself immersion things, doing what I would do).
I don't hate her, (and it's very likely that I won't be playing the hate path at all), currently just doing friendship path, but will do a love path at some point. She clearly had feelings and cared for MC, even if you don't play love path. I just personally can't continue a love relationship, because she did lie to MC and did so successfully for a long time.
She is just as much a victim of manipulation, and if you're on love or friendship path it must have been eating her up inside to keep something so dear to her, from someone she really cared about. I feel sorry for her and hope she will be a great ally and friend into the future, but i can't let her into my heart, because, quite simple, I cannot trust her. It wasn't a one-off lie, but a lifetime of deceit, 24/7 in recent times. I'm finding it hard to even trust her as a friend, but trying anyway, because she does seems sincere and I do believe that she cares for MC.
This is probably on the friendship path only, but, I also noticed she seemed to relax more once they defined their relationship. Almost like there was a pressure to be someone she's not. She let down her barriers and was just herself, hanging with a (getting there) friend. Personally, I liked it. There is probably a similar reaction on the love path.
- Jul 25, 2017
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yeah I get no being able to trust her for a romantic relationship I just am able to in a relationship but that's says more about me haha. ( tho alot of it is how I play these games too) I'm gonna play all 3 of her paths when I replay this , when it's out on steam.
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