VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

[Tremonia]

We spend all this time with Finnabair but somehow she never bothers to mention we've already met her mother? That feels less like a "friend" and more like someone you met at a business conference.

They're Álfr. They work in other ways as humans and also MC didn't share family details either. Medb and the Callister brat were bonding, sure, but that doesn't mean they have to talk about their love lives and their family. After all both are trying to find out if they can trust the other person.

The achievement for the scene is titled "Daughter of the Sun;" presumably we aren't meant to take that literally. It's entirely possible Medb was speaking metaphorically; that was my initial take when I finally saw the scene.

Finnabair a daughter of the sun like all Ljosálfar. Medb explained that. But for the person who gave birth to her and is the biological mother it's Medb. It's literally said during the ceremony.

 

[Ragnar]

It is implied in what Medb say's , plus it is said in Alfar language. a bit dificult to notice.

Yeah, I understand the black speech of Mordor but not that elven language

 

[xapican]

Yeah, I understand the black speech of Mordor but not that elven language

I wouldn't know if it wasn't said over here in the thread, I mean if I say "Despedida che membykuña ahayhuetéva"
(Farewell my beloved daughter in Guaraní ) who would understand it ? right ? only thing I got honestly was that Medb said something which ended with daughter, which Medb herself taught us.
Anyway, the next logical would be that MC gets to know more when he is escorted out of Alfheimr to the Nevewhere lands.
so patience is the key.

 

[Maviarab]

Anyway, the next logical would be that MC gets to know more when he is escorted out of Alfheimr to the Nevewhere lands.
so patience is the key.

 

[motseer]

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Hehehehe, got to use this one twice today.

 

[ename144]

They're Álfr. They work in other ways as humans and also MC didn't share family details either. Medb and the Callister brat were bonding, sure, but that doesn't mean they have to talk about their love lives and their family. After all both are trying to find out if they can trust the other person.

Again it's all about Medb. Why am I the only one concerned by Finnabair in her own right?

Also, the MC didn't share his family details because everyone was already well aware of them - both who his parents were and the fact he resents them concealing the Templars from him.

Finnabair a daughter of the sun like all Ljosálfar. Medb explained that. But for the person who gave birth to her and is the biological mother it's Medb. It's literally said during the ceremony.

We're told offhand that "Ainu" means daughter, but translation is never as easy as a one-to-one comparison. Words, especially basic ones like 'daughter' can have a lot of connotations that don't map directly from one culture to another. And even in English, daughter is often used to mean things other than a female, biological child. Just because Medb uses the word Ainu (especially in a setting as prone to euphemisms as a funeral), it doesn't automatically mean she gave birth to Finnabair. But it does seem like Mab's eulogy describes Finnabair specifically as the daughter of Ailill and the daughter of Medb, so in this case I think the literal implication is warranted.

I still don't see why that revelation should limit access to the thematic end of the whole chapter, though. Medb isn't the primary character in the game, yet there's very little room for error to see the scene without following her path, and zero margin for error if you want to see the scene without getting to the point of a potential Medb will consider a future romantic relationship. That's just bonkers. And if there IS some strange issue with learning Finnabair's genealogy, at least make an alternative version of the scene where the MC can watch from a distance, too far way to hear the dialog. We need *some* sort of closure for the character who actually died.

 

[Kayleigh]

Again it's all about Medb. Why am I the only one concerned by Finnabair in her own right?

Also, the MC didn't share his family details because everyone was already well aware of them - both who his parents were and the fact he resents them concealing the Templars from him.


We're told offhand that "Ainu" means daughter, but translation is never as easy as a one-to-one comparison. Words, especially basic ones like 'daughter' can have a lot of connotations that don't map directly from one culture to another. And even in English, daughter is often used to mean things other than a female, biological child. Just because Medb uses the word Ainu (especially in a setting as prone to euphemisms as a funeral), it doesn't automatically mean she gave birth to Finnabair. But it does seem like Mab's eulogy describes Finnabair specifically as the daughter of Ailill and the daughter of Medb, so in this case I think the literal implication is warranted.

I still don't see why that revelation should limit access to the thematic end of the whole chapter, though. Medb isn't the primary character in the game, yet there's very little room for error to see the scene without following her path, and zero margin for error if you want to see the scene without getting to the point of a potential Medb will consider a future romantic relationship. That's just bonkers. And if there IS some strange issue with learning Finnabair's genealogy, at least make an alternative version of the scene where the MC can watch from a distance, too far way to hear the dialog. We need *some* sort of closure for the character who actually died.

Mab says "Ainu hen Ailill." "Ainu hen Medb." and you argue it can mean something else????
In the code its - if b1_ch5_sc21_min_ebra == False:
jump end_chapter5
So why should Medb invite you if you don't befriend Finnabair?

 

[ename144]

Mab says "Ainu hen Ailill." "Ainu hen Medb." and you argue it can mean something else????

Uh, no, I specifically pointed out that's why it very likely means exactly what Treominia said. I'm just trying to point out there is some room for ambiguity here. Certainly enough that I don't see why it would be a problem to make the scene more easily accessible.

 

[Kayleigh]

Uh, no, I specifically pointed out that's why it very likely means exactly what Treominia said. I'm just trying to point out there is some room for ambiguity here. Certainly enough that I don't see why it would be a problem to make the scene more easily accessible.

But its very easy to get the scene, all you need are 2 triggers
if b1_ch4_sc18_her_call == True and b1_ch5_sc21_get_closer == True:
so if you try to ignore every Medb point in the game its honestly on you

 

[ename144]

But its very easy to get the scene, all you need are 2 triggers
if b1_ch4_sc18_her_call == True and b1_ch5_sc21_get_closer == True:
so if you try to ignore every Medb point in the game its honestly on you

What are you talking about? I ended the chapter with 14/17 Medb points and both of the flags you mentioned, and I still couldn't get the "Daughter of the Sun" scene. According to Maviarab's most excellent walkthrough, that's because I need both Finnabair declaring you "Min Ebra" *AND* 15+ points with Medb.

It's the 'and' that I object to. Min Ebra should be enough on its own.

 

[Kayleigh]

What are you talking about? I ended the chapter with 14/17 Medb points and both of the flags you mentioned, and I still couldn't get the "Daughter of the Sun" scene. According to Maviarab's most excellent walkthrough, that's because I need both Finnabair declaring you "Min Ebra" *AND* 15+ points with Medb.

It's the 'and' that I object to. Min Ebra should be enough on its own.

Okay i missed the if LPmedb < 15:
but still, would you personally invite someone you don't like to such an event?

 

[ename144]

Okay i missed the if LPmedb < 15:
but still, would you personally invite someone you don't like to such an event?

First of all, how is 14/17 relationship points "someone I don't like?" It's literally 82% of the possible esteem Medb is physically capable of having. The summary screen explicitly says Medb considers the MC a potential friend.


Second, yes. Medb *knows* Finnabair considered the MC a friend despite the, shall we say, rocky start to their relationship. If she cared about her daughter at all, why would she object to such a friend wanting to pay their final respects?

 

[Quetzzz]

Why would you not be going out of your way to gainer their favour?

Exactly this. Alex is there to build bridges, to prevent a war. Learning about their culture, and having an open mind, is paramount to that.

just like nearly every other interaction with Finn is actually tied to Medb.

This was also telegraphed well, by Finn outright saying she told Medb everything.

Why am I the only one concerned by Finnabair in her own right?

There could be a multitude of reasons why Finn didn't bring up that Medb was her mother. Maybe Alex never asked, or maybe Medb told her to keep that a secret, to avoid Alex acting fake around her?

We need *some* sort of closure for the character who actually died.

Honestly, I think getting kicked out of Elven territory without that closure is way more powerful, and allows for a lot more nuance down the road. Depending on how your Alex bonded with Finn, this event could inform his (your) choices going forward.

 

[PaxHadrian17]

I wouldn't know if it wasn't said over here in the thread, I mean if I say "Despedida che membykuña ahayhuetéva"
(Farewell my beloved daughter in Guaraní ) who would understand it ? right ? only thing I got honestly was that Medb said something which ended with daughter, which Medb herself taught us.
Anyway, the next logical would be that MC gets to know more when he is escorted out of Alfheimr to the Nevewhere lands.
so patience is the key.

I agree.

This is one chapter of a story in progress - we cannot know the reveals/what is shared as the MC is escorted out of Alfheimr and when he reaches the Templars as that is next chapter content.

All we can do is speculate about next chapter content for the various paths.

For all we know, Ailill will be escorting the MC out of Alfheimr and he will reveal that Finnabair was the daughter of Medb as well as how she was murdered by the Templars (if the MC did not attend the farewell ceremony).

Did the Templars kill her under a sign of Parley, for example?

If it was murder, can the MC expiate some of the damage by challenging the Templar who committed the murder and then goading him into attacking the MC so he can use the sword's abilities to defeat the murderer and take his life and head?

Waiting for the next chapter will be hard because there are multiple paths that can make the events of the next chapter play out differently, and I see myself playing all of them.

Regardless of where someone stands on the level of Finnabair/Medb information received - IMO, her story arc was exceptional!

The news of her death is still a gut punch and, for me, that is very good story telling!

Cheers!!

 

[Quetzzz]

Did the Templars kill her under a sign of Parley, for example?

Or is a 3rd party trying to stoke the fire, and made it look that way?

 

[MiltonPowers]

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Patience is hard!

 

[Jack Nippleson]

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[nitkonikic]

Or is a 3rd party trying to stoke the fire, and made it look that way?

Ch5 spoiler, obviously.

You know, considering

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[ename144]

Honestly, I think getting kicked out of Elven territory without that closure is way more powerful, and allows for a lot more nuance down the road. Depending on how your Alex bonded with Finn, this event could inform his (your) choices going forward.

If that was the idea, shouldn't we get a chance to express our displeasure at the unjust treatment now rather than meekly agreeing and expecting to retroactively address the slight in a future update? "A curse on the stiff neck of the Alfar" or some such?

 

[Quetzzz]

If that was the idea, shouldn't we get a chance to express our displeasure at the unjust treatment now rather than meekly agreeing and expecting to retroactively address the slight in a future update? "A curse on the stiff neck of the Alfar" or some such?

Practically, that's difficult to achieve. Ceo can't know why a player is making certain choices regarding Finn/Medb/Elves... If he makes Alex react in a certain way, this might not align with a player's motivation.