VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

[abane]

Just played through this for the first time and overall I'm very impressed. Several thoughts (kinda long, fair warning):

I'm enjoying how Kaija is being developed. As a LI, she's more complex than most, which makes her particularly memorable. In her love path, I like how she's willing to abandon orders and demonstrate her devotion to the MC, to then struggle with inner turmoil and hesitate in opening up further. I also appreciate the reverse in her "non-love" path, with her absolute loyalty to the Templars and to herself/ her unrevealed personal reasons for joining up, and, in turn, her willingness to use the MC and disregard his feelings when the relationship is no longer necessary. Those contrasts of character skirt the line of redeemable vs irredeemable beautifully, and so, as a character, I love her and I love hating her. Wonderfully written!

Keeping with Kaija, I can't wait to see how her love path evolves, as I'm thinking the future scenes revealing her background, and those personal reasons for her joining the order, will need to hit hard emotionally, as they will determine if, or by how much, she can be truly redeemed as a LI. For her non-love path, I agree with those that want to see her receive some form of comeuppance, as she and the Templars used the MC and are using him again, presently. I'd be intrigued if there were some kind of retaliation by the MC, something like a foil to Kaija's personal reasons for joining the order. Or perhaps something darker, like an emotional counter-betrayal path by the MC, as in, MC has her legit fall in love with him this time around, only for him to drop and betray her. That could be pure vitriolic spiciness.

Regarding the Templars and loyalty, I very much like how everyone's devotion skirts being fanatic and at times toxic. The MC's mother, Kaija, the older lady Templar (her name escapes me at the moment), and others, are all so quick to defend themselves and each other, and assert their beliefs and actions, all the while dismissing the MCs feelings and spinning words to make him sound naive or immature. Meanwhile, the MC is struggling with lies by omission, his being used emotionally, and the mental aspects of working his entire situation out as he just learned of magic, others worlds, other peoples, etc. It's deceiving, disrespectful, frustrating for the MC, and I freakin' love it. I only hope it all serves as fuel for if/when the MC turns it all around on them.

Lastly, I am also impressed, though to a lesser degree (for now), with Fiona. Not nearly as deep as Kaija's character, I like that she's quick to empathize and not judge MC as he works through his thoughts and feelings. Though the relationship is developing a bit fast, I'm thinking it will work if there's a big reveal waiting in the winds for her. Kind, caring, understanding, as in, the supposed complete opposite of elves, and also given what she has said about her family and background, I'm really hoping for a reveal that she's an elf herself. It would give her much deeper significance in the story, it could give her a bigger role in events, it would certainly even up the LI pool; two humans and two elves; and it would deepen her character development. Fingers-crossed on this one.

Lots of emotion in several of these scenes, hoping to see much more of that. Well done so far, Ceolag !

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

After playing through the Kaija love path, I'm just eh... Well, I immersed myself into the gameplay and if I try and take her actions into consideration, and then how she acted about her past, I no longer trust her. She's an amazing character, I just can't be on her path for a couple reasons:

1. She's part of an organization that believes in absolutes. To them, there's only black and white. No shades of grey. Just right and wrong. They think they're the good guys and are very militant about this. The entire indoctrination these people go through is deeply ingrained into every single member. They remind me of the BoS in the Fallout games. Not a group I want to be a part of or be associated with.

2. She has done nothing but lie to us. She had many chances to talk to us and as she even said, the more time went by, it became harder to tell us. To me, that's just a cop out. If you love someone you have to open up and take a Leap of Faith and tell that person everything. Her saying that very few people know everything, but yet, she can't tell the person that you say you love? Are those other people more important than the one you supposedly love?

I just can't trust her. I really wanted to, I just can't. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me and that's fine. We're all different and our life experiences are different. But I also don't trust the mom, dad or their organization. So, anyone in their organization that are LIs are off limits to me now also.

Not sure who that leaves as an LI, but I'll figure it out as I go. Great story, great characters and can't wait to see where this goes. These are just my opinions and thoughts. I'm not trying to say they are 100% facts.

 

[Joshy92]

After playing through the Kaija love path, I'm just eh... Well, I immersed myself into the gameplay and if I try and take her actions into consideration, and then how she acted about her past, I no longer trust her. She's an amazing character, I just can't be on her path for a couple reasons:

1. She's part of an organization that believes in absolutes. To them, there's only black and white. No shades of grey. Just right and wrong. They think they're the good guys and are very militant about this. The entire indoctrination these people go through is deeply ingrained into every single member. They remind me of the BoS in the Fallout games. Not a group I want to be a part of or be associated with.

2. She has done nothing but lie to us. She had many chances to talk to us and as she even said, the more time went by, it became harder to tell us. To me, that's just a cop out. If you love someone you have to open up and take a Leap of Faith and tell that person everything. Her saying that very few people know everything, but yet, she can't tell the person that you say you love? Are those other people more important than the one you supposedly love?

I just can't trust her. I really wanted to, I just can't. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me and that's fine. We're all different and our life experiences are different. But I also don't trust the mom, dad or their organization. So, anyone in their organization that are LIs are off limits to me now also.

Not sure who that leaves as an LI, but I'll figure it out as I go. Great story, great characters and can't wait to see where this goes. These are just my opinions and thoughts. I'm not trying to say they are 100% facts.

You & I are so different on this lol

I actually really like her.
I get the feeling she feels like she is being pulled in two different directions.
Her faith in the order & her love for the mc

I'm really looking forward to seeing how the dev does her love path.

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

You & I are so different on this lol

I actually really like her.
I get the feeling she feels like she is being pulled in two different directions.
Her faith in the order & her love for the mc

I'm really looking forward to seeing how the dev does her love path.

You're correct. In a lot of things we think alike. But, I've got over 40 years in this world and been dating-ish since I was 13. But none of that matters. When we immerse ourselves into a game, life experiences play a heavy part in it. It's just who we are. I'm really glad that you can continue on her path. I'm doing an Elea run now and just wow! But still need to see where it goes before I decide anything with her.

 

[Mmushy]

Only just discovered this game and am enjoying it.
I'm glad Dev told us no NTR, Incest,Harem right off in the beginning. It allows me to change my usual "manwhore" gameplay.
That being said, little sis looks good

 

[Joshy92]

Yeah the dev being honest about what isn't going to be in the game is cool of him
I wish others were as honest
I say with the experience of playing games that added stuff like surprise ntr or other
Not fun surprises lol

 

[Tulrek]

Just played through this for the first time and overall I'm very impressed. Several thoughts (kinda long, fair warning):

I'm enjoying how Kaija is being developed. As a LI, she's more complex than most, which makes her particularly memorable. In her love path, I like how she's willing to abandon orders and demonstrate her devotion to the MC, to then struggle with inner turmoil and hesitate in opening up further. I also appreciate the reverse in her "non-love" path, with her absolute loyalty to the Templars and to herself/ her unrevealed personal reasons for joining up, and, in turn, her willingness to use the MC and disregard his feelings when the relationship is no longer necessary. Those contrasts of character skirt the line of redeemable vs irredeemable beautifully, and so, as a character, I love her and I love hating her. Wonderfully written!

Keeping with Kaija, I can't wait to see how her love path evolves, as I'm thinking the future scenes revealing her background, and those personal reasons for her joining the order, will need to hit hard emotionally, as they will determine if, or by how much, she can be truly redeemed as a LI. For her non-love path, I agree with those that want to see her receive some form of comeuppance, as she and the Templars used the MC and are using him again, presently. I'd be intrigued if there were some kind of retaliation by the MC, something like a foil to Kaija's personal reasons for joining the order. Or perhaps something darker, like an emotional counter-betrayal path by the MC, as in, MC has her legit fall in love with him this time around, only for him to drop and betray her. That could be pure vitriolic spiciness.

Regarding the Templars and loyalty, I very much like how everyone's devotion skirts being fanatic and at times toxic. The MC's mother, Kaija, the older lady Templar (her name escapes me at the moment), and others, are all so quick to defend themselves and each other, and assert their beliefs and actions, all the while dismissing the MCs feelings and spinning words to make him sound naive or immature. Meanwhile, the MC is struggling with lies by omission, his being used emotionally, and the mental aspects of working his entire situation out as he just learned of magic, others worlds, other peoples, etc. It's deceiving, disrespectful, frustrating for the MC, and I freakin' love it. I only hope it all serves as fuel for if/when the MC turns it all around on them.

Lastly, I am also impressed, though to a lesser degree (for now), with Fiona. Not nearly as deep as Kaija's character, I like that she's quick to empathize and not judge MC as he works through his thoughts and feelings. Though the relationship is developing a bit fast, I'm thinking it will work if there's a big reveal waiting in the winds for her. Kind, caring, understanding, as in, the supposed complete opposite of elves, and also given what she has said about her family and background, I'm really hoping for a reveal that she's an elf herself. It would give her much deeper significance in the story, it could give her a bigger role in events, it would certainly even up the LI pool; two humans and two elves; and it would deepen her character development. Fingers-crossed on this one.

Lots of emotion in several of these scenes, hoping to see much more of that. Well done so far, Ceolag !

Hey I agree with you about Fiona. Her story seems quite old. She might be way older than it appears.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

I really started to hate Kaija and I despised her to begin with but now, gawd. She lies through her teeth and still try to manipulate MC for her organization's sake. She even have the guts to say Paul died for you to MC, such a blatant lie. First of all, the danger MC was in caused by them not MC. Secondly, as Linnae said they do not save innocent people so Paul was there for Templars not for MC, thus if he is dead he died for their cause. Finally, even though Templars knew the size of danger they sent Paul alone, we can even say death by negligence for Templars' account. What Kaija thinks though? Paul died for MC's safety, either she is pure evil or a heedless sheep, a devotee, a zealot and even an apparatchik, nothing more. Her struggles seems fake too. There are people who knew about it, but her love don't even deserve to know even after she lied to him years. Best of it though, she didn't even haze about what she did to him neither in love path nor the other path. She is joking around, continues her life without a skip. She does not even show remorse or sadness except crocodile tears. She is a tool for her order and she is trying to use MC as one. Such a disgusting person and personality.

After my rant about Kaija, I really loved characters and story flow. People felt real; they have their own problems, their own reservations, even their own agenda and they are not mindless drones who would do anything for MC. Whichever path you follow, you unravel things about interesting characters and they don't get boring with their secrecy. They reveal enough to keep you engaged to the story and leave enough to keep story interesting. I also love small details, like if you thank Kari she calls you Alex if not by the full name etc. Btw, there is a small mistake: if you spent night with Anisa, when you go to apartment it still says 'after you wake up' in the text.

Anyway, I decided to play love route for Kaija and pursue others at the same time. When the time comes, I will choose to betray Kaija and Templars so it will hit them harder. Maybe learn how to fight, then use that skill against her. I also expect huge retribution for both Kaija paths. I wait Mebd scenes as well, she had perfect introduction. I loved the romance scene with Fiona and what is developing between Elea and MC. I think dev should be praised to move forward the story all around. It was no easy task, but dev managed it masterfully. Btw, strawberry please scene was enough to make Jessica best girl, I hope we will see more of her, though with less pineapple pizza please. Thank you Ceolag for such a masterpiece.

 

[motseer]

You & I are so different on this lol

I actually really like her.
I get the feeling she feels like she is being pulled in two different directions.
Her faith in the order & her love for the mc

I'm really looking forward to seeing how the dev does her love path.

"I get the feeling she feels like she is being pulled in two different directions."

Take it from an old soldier, Joshy. In combat, people who think like that will get you killed. In the world, people who think like that will hurt you sooner or later. It was actually a comment you made that got me to do a new play through and give her a chance. That only solidified my mistrust of the character. I don't know if Ceolag meant to write her this way but, it is definitely how she turned out - at least to this point in the story and in the eyes of a large majority. Sorry, m8.

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

"I get the feeling she feels like she is being pulled in two different directions."

Take it from an old soldier, Joshy. In combat, people who think like that will get you killed. In the world, people who think like that will hurt you sooner or later. It was actually a comment you made that got me to do a new play through and give her a chance. That only solidified my mistrust of the character. I don't know if Ceolag meant to write her this way but, it is definitely how she turned out - at least to this point in the story and in the eyes of a large majority. Sorry, m8.

At this point, I would trust Kevin to watch my back more than Kaija. That fucker would do it just to loudly brag about it.

Kevin: "I saved princess! He was so scared and there were 5, no 50! Yeah. 50 mercs coming at us. I killed them all. You're welcome, princess!"

Kaija watching our backs:
Kaija: "I tried." *boo hoo... sob* "There were too many and Alexander ran away and they grabbed him." *sob... sob*

Ha! Not really. I still think Kaija is a great character and she will always have the MC's back. I just personally can't trust her. No trust = No relationship.

 

[Valdazz]

At this point, I would trust Kevin to watch my back more than Kaija. That fucker would do it just to loudly brag about it.

Kevin: "I saved princess! He was so scared and there were 5, no 50! Yeah. 50 mercs coming at us. I killed them all. You're welcome, princess!"

Kaija watching our backs:
Kaija: "I tried." *boo hoo... sob* "There were too many and Alexander ran away and they grabbed him." *sob... sob*

Ha! Not really. I still think Kaija is a great character and she will always have the MC's back. I just personally can't trust her. No trust = No relationship.

Did MC found out about her deception?

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

Did MC found out about her deception?

I don't want to give too much away. Just play it. I really wanted to stay on her path, I just couldn't after all the stuff that happened and the continued "I have a secret that only a few know, maybe one day I'll tell you.", I couldn't continue with her.

 

[nitkonikic]

At this point, I would trust Kevin to watch my back more than Kaija. That fucker would do it just to loudly brag about it.

Is it wrong to say I like Steroid-Kevin?
Oh, he's indoctrinated, same as that other person, but as least he's not pretending to be something he's not.
Actually, he might be LESS affected than that other person, and in it for his own gain more than true beliefs in their cause.

He doesn't like MC, he acts rude, but I genuinely think he's not a bad person per se. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but he strikes me as a type of a-hole that has your back when you're in combat, and despite goofiness out of action, has 100% focus during actual fight.

I've done few runs where I've been nice to him (as much as possible) and look forwards to seeing more of him.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Is it wrong to say I like Steroid-Kevin?
Oh, he's indoctrinated, same as that other person, but as least he's not pretending to be something he's not.
Actually, he might be LESS affected than that other person, and in it for his own gain more than true beliefs in their cause.

He doesn't like MC, he acts rude, but I genuinely think he's not a bad person per se. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but he strikes me as a type of a-hole that has your back when you're in combat, and despite goofiness out of action, has 100% focus during actual fight.

I've done few runs where I've been nice to him (as much as possible) and look forwards to seeing more of him.

I kinda agree, also when you defend him against bartender or Linnae he immediately recognize the goodwill, unlike others.

 

[somewherexxx]

Game has horrible startup. If mc 'taps' Kaija in intro her entire story goes downhill.
Resulting in 0 points and because of that all you get is animosity from her, mc was just a job , everything was a lie.
She literally becomes antagonist. All because of sex in the morning. wow.
btw, oh yeah dev did add $ total_points_kaija variable for her at the end of that intro (sex) morning scene. But he never summed it up anywhere, resulting in 0.

Fiona, running in the morning scene.. You know, i can count 100 out of 99 people that would have said: ewww get a shower first, after 13mile sweaty run hugging attempt from stranger. But for MC thats +points and again entire story gets different turn. One Sweaty Hug with a stranger.. Funny that, elves world...

I stopped reading when choice of 3 appeared for Fiona. One of them being : Tell her full truth.
Who in their right mind would tell a stranger that his father was being abducted by Evil Elves trying to take over world? Why was that even an option?
Ill tell you who, MC and he would get + point for it. No really...


Writing is not bad overall. But choices are really bad.

P.S
Get this, if you tell Fiona half truth (omitting evil elves as normal human being would) so you tell her, you were almost killed by mercenary squad, that entire street was covered in bodies of them, that your father is kidnapped..
And her reaction to all that is? "i know u are omitting something and telling me half truth" For real? Shouldnt u have started with emotional reaction first?

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

Game has horrible startup. If mc 'taps' Kaija in intro her entire story goes downhill.
Resulting in 0 points and because of that all you get is animosity from her, mc was just a job , everything was a lie.
She literally becomes antagonist. All because of sex in the morning. wow.

This is simply not true. I spanked her, she got upset and I still got points with her. So, you were obviously taking the bad choices if you got no points, or actually, you were getting negative points with her. So, if what you said is true in your playthrough, that is exactly what happened.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

This is simply not true. I spanked her, she got upset and I still got points with her. So, you were obviously taking the bad choices if you got no points, or actually, you were getting negative points with her. So, if what you said is true in your playthrough, that is exactly what happened.

If you spank you get 0 from that interaction, you still can accumulate enough points to be on love route though.

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

If you spank you get 0 from that interaction, you still can accumulate enough points to be on love route though.

That's what I was saying. That person was saying that you couldn't get points after that. Which is wrong.

 

[Ceolag]

I usually avoid answering these kinds of posts because it's just provocation.
But this one contains so much wrong information I just have to.

Game has horrible startup. If mc 'taps' Kaija in intro her entire story goes downhill.
Resulting in 0 points and because of that all you get is animosity from her, mc was just a job , everything was a lie.
She literally becomes antagonist. All because of sex in the morning. wow.

Just plain wrong. There are 2 more decisions to get points with her that have nothing to do with the first scene.
If you ended up with 0 points you fucked up way more than just the first scene.
And on top of that, you have a chance to get the first 2 points "back" at the start of CH2.

Fiona, running in the morning scene.. You know, i can count 100 out of 99 people that would have said: ewww get a shower first, after 13mile sweaty run hugging attempt from stranger. But for MC thats +points and again entire story gets different turn. One Sweaty Hug with a stranger.. Funny that, elves world...

Again, just plain wrong.
Don't hug her if you don't like it. There's a second chance to get all of her story. You know... for example for people who didn't like to hug a stranger...

I stopped reading when choice of 3 appeared for Fiona. One of them being : Tell her full truth.
Who in their right mind would tell a stranger that his father was being abducted by Evil Elves trying to take over world? Why was that even an option?
Ill tell you who, MC and he would get + point for it. No really...

That's why there are 3 choices. So you have the option to... choose?!
The option is neither forced nor do you lose anything if you don't tell her everything. You'll miss out on a chance to get more information about her early.
But you can't complain about that, because, you know, why should she tell you about everything when you don't want to be open, too?

oh yeah dev did add $ total_points_kaija variable for her at the end of that intro (sex) morning scene. But he never summed it up anywhere, resulting in 0.

And, I guess, here comes the root cause for all the rants.
If you argue about the coding and the errors in it, make sure you actually understand what the code is doing.
That variable is legacy code. It does literally nothing. And it was never intended to do more than sum up a total of the available points (which I dropped because it was more effort than just counting the total by hand).
It never had any influence on the game.

With that in mind, all your problems are probably related to trying to get a "perfect" playthrough with max points possible by either checking the code, and failing miserably at that, or by using some kind of walkthrough that isn't working correctly.
The problem is, you don't even need max points for the paths...

P.S
Get this, if you tell Fiona half truth (omitting evil elves as normal human being would) so you tell her, you were almost killed by mercenary squad, that entire street was covered in bodies of them, that your father is kidnapped..
And her reaction to all that is? "i know u are omitting something and telling me half truth" For real? Shouldnt u have started with emotional reaction first?

And the bonus question.
Because? Because you would react like that? Because you expect it? Because you're the measurement of human behavior and we all react the same way to different things?
Yeah, no. Just no. And that's also the answer to your question in red.

In general, we probably can both agree to the game is not your style. You don't like it and that's perfectly fine.
Next time, just move on instead of pulling false "facts" out of your rear.

Or even better: Come up with some useful feedback. There is a point or two in all the text above that could be feedback.
They just get drowned in wrong claims and assumptions.

 

[Son of Durin]

I usually avoid answering these kinds of posts because it's just provocation.
But this one contains so much wrong information I just have to.

Or even better: Come up with some useful feedback. There is a point or two in all the text above that could be feedback.
They just get drowned in wrong claims and assumptions.

You really should have just ignored him - your experience here will improve dramatically. He's a perennial troll that I've seen act like this elsewhere and have had on ignore for a very long time because of it. He won't heed your words or be swayed by reason in any way.