VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Personally I think that when she talks about "initially nothing was true" she is referring to the reasons for spending more time together, given how many times she wants to specify that the feelings are true, the relationship should have arisen naturally by spending more time together.
For every other routh there is no possibility of redemption.

She does not say nothing was true though she says nothing but the friendship. So there is no referring there, she outright tells us.

Tbh, in other routes she is more acceptable for me. No redemption in any route don't get me wrong but at non-love paths it was just a job for her, no feelings. She only betrays an old friendship, still a shitty thing to do but it is what it is. On so-called love she betrays everything for the sake of her cult.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

What makes me think of this is that in the other versions Kaija has an attitude of "yes you're right but let's move on at least you've had sex" (which is somewhat infuriating)

Tbh, in other routes she is more acceptable for me. No redemption in any route don't get me wrong but at non-love paths it was just a job for her, no feelings. She only betrays an old friendship, still a shitty thing to do but it is what it is. On so-called love she betrays everything for the sake of her cult.

I understand your point, only time and/or Ceolag will tell us the truth.

 

[Ceolag]

Hey everyone,

Another week passed and Easter was the busy and chaotic time I expected. It's good that it's behind us now. ;-)
Thanks to the 4-day weekend (Friday and Monday were days off here), I expected to get lower numbers done this week (days off usually mean days spent with the family).
Well... I'd say the numbers aren't exactly lower than usual.

I've almost finished my next internal test version and am just waiting for the pc to render the last several images.
Everything else is ready. So it's safe to say I did catch up with the renders according to my plan.
Next week will be mostly dedicated to setting up several environments that I need for the rest of Chapter 5.
Additionally, more writing and squeezing in renders where possible, of course.

Moving on to the numbers of this week:
120 new static renders for a total of 1156
0 new animations :-(
221 new lines in the script file for a total of 3116

Clearly lower numbers than usual on the render-side...

Have a nice weekend, guys.

Cheers,
Ceolag

 

[nitkonikic]

Few things to say about Kaija.
What was the end goal in her mind though?
What if MC wanted marriage/children?
What if she actually fell in love with someone?

The reason why I find her irredeemable on "friend" path is because I can't stop thinking of above.
Naturally, love and "friend" path make Kaija a completely different person, and love path would be (somewhat) possible to answer by simple: "They go for it and she comes clean".

"Friend" path just baffles me.
How did she think it would end? There is simply no long-term scenario where it doesn't come crashing and burning down worse than Hindenburg.
She leaves scorched earth behind, while hoping to have trust from the person whose life she destroyed?
If MC develops genuine feelings based on complete lie, what then?

For role-playing sake, think how utterly devastated MC in love with Kaija would be on 0 points chapter 1 run.
Just think about it for a minute. Here's a guy, in love with his childhood friend, she returned his feelings, he's happy...then it turns out all of that is a lie. She doesn't love him. She was with him only because it's her job.

Again, I am talking low-points, still love her option taken scenario.

Love path gives completely different story, and one where I can see why people would be willing to forgive and forget. She suffers and genuinely feels sorry for what she did.
Bench scene is day and night difference. Shower scene (one with achievement) shows how messed up she gets.
Even on this one, though, I have to ask similar questions. How did she think it will end up?
She entered relationship for all the wrong reasons. That sucks. Her actions after she developed feelings for MC change the narrative completely though, and redemption feels deserved.
Not that I'm going to pursue romance on any of the paths, but I am happily following high-points route to see her development there.

Kaija is such an amazing character, and just like an amazing movie/tv show villain, I love everything that happens around her.

 

[Leongen43]

Few things to say about Kaija.
What was the end goal in her mind though?
What if MC wanted marriage/children?
What if she actually fell in love with someone?

The reason why I find her irredeemable on "friend" path is because I can't stop thinking of above.
Naturally, love and "friend" path make Kaija a completely different person, and love path would be (somewhat) possible to answer by simple: "They go for it and she comes clean".

"Friend" path just baffles me.
How did she think it would end? There is simply no long-term scenario where it doesn't come crashing and burning down worse than Hindenburg.
She leaves scorched earth behind, while hoping to have trust from the person whose life she destroyed?
If MC develops genuine feelings based on complete lie, what then?

For role-playing sake, think how utterly devastated MC in love with Kaija would be on 0 points chapter 1 run.
Just think about it for a minute. Here's a guy, in love with his childhood friend, she returned his feelings, he's happy...then it turns out all of that is a lie. She doesn't love him. She was with him only because it's her job.

Again, I am talking low-points, still love her option taken scenario.

Love path gives completely different story, and one where I can see why people would be willing to forgive and forget. She suffers and genuinely feels sorry for what she did.
Bench scene is day and night difference. Shower scene (one with achievement) shows how messed up she gets.
Even on this one, though, I have to ask similar questions. How did she think it will end up?
She entered relationship for all the wrong reasons. That sucks. Her actions after she developed feelings for MC change the narrative completely though, and redemption feels deserved.
Not that I'm going to pursue romance on any of the paths, but I am happily following high-points route to see her development there.

Kaija is such an amazing character, and just like an amazing movie/tv show villain, I love everything that happens around her.

At first for Kaija the mc was just a mission but she has feelings for him but that doesn't mean that it's a mission for her and Kaija's feelings can grow or not depending on our decisions in the story, right? I would like to have several threesomes so I want to get along with all the girls

 

[lorkdubo]

At first for Kaija the mc was just a mission but she has feelings for him but that doesn't mean that it's a mission for her and Kaija's feelings can grow or not depending on our decisions in the story, right? I would like to have several threesomes so I want to get along with all the girls

Still, both paths feel disjointed, as at least it appears that they have been best friends since childhood and have practically spent time together since then. Also, you don't "love" someone before actually spending a good amount of time with them and knowing their in's and out's. I still feel that she should have been remorseful on both paths, as she has wronged her best friend and childhood friend regardless.
It's not that hard to think that she just took advantage of the assignment from the templars to enter a relationship with him, as her being a templar has been her focus since her grandfather died. Still, she lied and should have come clean regardless of MC, but maybe she was afraid of the sky coming down. Which, mind you, happened, and you can see she is devastated on the love path who should have been the cannon and only one, to be honest, as it ease the plot a lot~~~.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Few things to say about Kaija.
What was the end goal in her mind though?
What if MC wanted marriage/children?
What if she actually fell in love with someone?

The reason why I find her irredeemable on "friend" path is because I can't stop thinking of above.
Naturally, love and "friend" path make Kaija a completely different person, and love path would be (somewhat) possible to answer by simple: "They go for it and she comes clean".

"Friend" path just baffles me.
How did she think it would end? There is simply no long-term scenario where it doesn't come crashing and burning down worse than Hindenburg.
She leaves scorched earth behind, while hoping to have trust from the person whose life she destroyed?
If MC develops genuine feelings based on complete lie, what then?

For role-playing sake, think how utterly devastated MC in love with Kaija would be on 0 points chapter 1 run.
Just think about it for a minute. Here's a guy, in love with his childhood friend, she returned his feelings, he's happy...then it turns out all of that is a lie. She doesn't love him. She was with him only because it's her job.

Again, I am talking low-points, still love her option taken scenario.

Love path gives completely different story, and one where I can see why people would be willing to forgive and forget. She suffers and genuinely feels sorry for what she did.
Bench scene is day and night difference. Shower scene (one with achievement) shows how messed up she gets.
Even on this one, though, I have to ask similar questions. How did she think it will end up?
She entered relationship for all the wrong reasons. That sucks. Her actions after she developed feelings for MC change the narrative completely though, and redemption feels deserved.
Not that I'm going to pursue romance on any of the paths, but I am happily following high-points route to see her development there.

Kaija is such an amazing character, and just like an amazing movie/tv show villain, I love everything that happens around her.

That's the thing though, on friend path she does not give a flying fuck about MC. She is okay to cheat, deceive, manipulate etc. if everything blew up like it happened in the game, though luck at worst case mission failed for her. MC's love for her does not mean jackshit for her.
For love path, she does all the things she did at the friend path but there is a difference here, she is doing all of it to a person whom she claims she loves. She lies in all the paths but she does that to a person she says she is in love with.

For me, all of her paths are irredeemable but in her love path she does things to a person that she have feelings. This makes me furious with her, you won't do such a thing to a person you love. In friend path, she has who gives a fuck attitude which is shitty but expectable.

 

[Dark Silence]

I understand, but if it happened and Kaija was unfaithful, would this be the armor he would use to prevent the protagonist from being made fun of and give a justification for the cuckolding?

Spoiler

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That is a fucking abomination.

That armor looks more like it's for some gay BDSM scene. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Leongen43]

That armor looks more like it's for some gay BDSM scene. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Seriously? Wait! Can I remind you of something you used in the past?

 

[Dark Silence]

Seriously? Wait! Can I remind you of something you used in the past?

Sometimes the teacher needs the student to remind them.

 

[xapican]

That armor looks more like it's for some gay BDSM scene. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No wonder it is from the “Teutonic Knights “

 

[Leongen43]

Sometimes the teacher needs the student to remind them.

Understand, I made you remember the past, I would like to have Bdsm sex with Kaija, punish that beautiful ass with mc cock and whatever he has to hand until she tells him "Master", a hot and unique moment for those who hate Kaija to be able to punish her , No?

 

[nitkonikic]

That's the thing though, on friend path she does not give a flying fuck about MC. She is okay to cheat, deceive, manipulate etc. if everything blew up like it happened in the game, though luck at worst case mission failed for her. MC's love for her does not mean jackshit for her.
For love path, she does all the things she did at the friend path but there is a difference here, she is doing all of it to a person whom she claims she loves. She lies in all the paths but she does that to a person she says she is in love with.

For me, all of her paths are irredeemable but in her love path she does things to a person that she have feelings. This makes me furious with her, you won't do such a thing to a person you love. In friend path, she has who gives a fuck attitude which is shitty but expectable.

I am not disagreeing with you per se, but I do think redemption CAN be found on love path.
Granted, I would never, ever, be able to do it myself, but can somewhat see why others can.

She is genuinely sorry shit happened the way it did. She did enter relationship for all the wrong reason, she did lie and manipulate MC, she is absolutely horrible person...but in the end, her feelings for MC are genuine.

That's why shower scene in chapter 2 is very important. It's not Kaija lying to MC, it's Kaija being sad on her own.
Ceolag placing that scene there is perfect, it shows the effect it has on her, no words, just sad scene.
She knows what she's done and feels regret over it. She lost something that means a lot to her. Someone that means a lot to her.

As official member of "fuck Kaija" club, I am in no way defending her, just explaining why I think people might like her.

I am usually quite forgiving on "secret life" stuff, just find this specific scenario doesn't play well with my feelings and feels like betrayal of the worst kind. She's checked off every box on "don't do in relationship" bingo card.
Everything bad that happens is on her.

 

[Dark Silence]

Understand, I made you remember the past, I would like to have Bdsm sex with Kaija, punish that beautiful ass with mc cock and whatever he has to hand until she tells him "Master", a hot and unique moment for those who hate Kaija to be able to punish her , No?

Ah, so the student reminds the teacher, not of what the teacher said, but what the student said. Now it all makes sense. Thank you.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

As official member of "fuck Kaija" club, I am in no way defending her, just explaining why I think people might like her.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

I am not disagreeing with you per se, but I do think redemption CAN be found on love path.
Granted, I would never, ever, be able to do it myself, but can somewhat see why others can.

She is genuinely sorry shit happened the way it did. She did enter relationship for all the wrong reason, she did lie and manipulate MC, she is absolutely horrible person...but in the end, her feelings for MC are genuine.

That's why shower scene in chapter 2 is very important. It's not Kaija lying to MC, it's Kaija being sad on her own.
Ceolag placing that scene there is perfect, it shows the effect it has on her, no words, just sad scene.
She knows what she's done and feels regret over it. She lost something that means a lot to her. Someone that means a lot to her.

I understand what you say but having genuine feelings, being sad how it turned out won't undo what she had done. No redemption for her. I am guessing she has devastating backstory how she joined the Templars. Most likely it's about her family. It can even make sense, how she became a cult devotee. I may even feel sad for her what she has been through but no, no redemption no forgiveness. When the time comes and she feel the knife that she used backstabbing MC on her back, that will be the closure for MC. So I understand but I don't agree with you.

As official member of "fuck Kaija" club, I am in no way defending her, just explaining why I think people might like her.

Sounds like you are slacking ngl.

I am usually quite forgiving on "secret life" stuff, just find this specific scenario doesn't play well with my feelings and feels like betrayal of the worst kind. She's checked off every box on "don't do in relationship" bingo card.
Everything bad that happens is on her.

I am not forgiving person generally. When the time comes and people ask forgiveness, when they explained why they did it. I usually say I do understand why they did it but they don't have a place in my life. Life is too short to be forgiving or holding grudge. Let it go but never forgive is my mindset on these situation.

It reminds me a few other games tbh. I.e. Cassie from Artemis, she probably had her reasons why she betrayed MC but there can't be redemption for her. Or Steph from Leap of Faith, she had her reasons I do understand I wish her happy life, away from MC. Or Ana from Acting Lessons, she betrayed MC. She was right in her mind but that does not make what she did acceptable. No redemption for her too. Or Marie from Triple Ex. She did what she did to save MC's life in her mind but that broke MC. Not only her but entire family betrayed MC. No redemption for them either. All betrayed, some hurt more than others and all of them had their reasons but if they choose to betray with whatever their reason, that is the end of it.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

I am not disagreeing with you per se, but I do think redemption CAN be found on love path.
Granted, I would never, ever, be able to do it myself, but can somewhat see why others can.

She is genuinely sorry shit happened the way it did. She did enter relationship for all the wrong reason, she did lie and manipulate MC, she is absolutely horrible person...but in the end, her feelings for MC are genuine.

That's why shower scene in chapter 2 is very important. It's not Kaija lying to MC, it's Kaija being sad on her own.
Ceolag placing that scene there is perfect, it shows the effect it has on her, no words, just sad scene.
She knows what she's done and feels regret over it. She lost something that means a lot to her. Someone that means a lot to her.

As official member of "fuck Kaija" club, I am in no way defending her, just explaining why I think people might like her.

I am usually quite forgiving on "secret life" stuff, just find this specific scenario doesn't play well with my feelings and feels like betrayal of the worst kind. She's checked off every box on "don't do in relationship" bingo card.
Everything bad that happens is on her.

Definitely agree. I play the Kaija love path because I think she can be redeemed. I hate what her and the parents did. She was young, she has the chance to sort out her life in the story ahead and redeem herself. Whether I can be persuaded enough to change my dislike for her to positive feelings remains to be seen. Although, I don't hate her but I don't like her either. I have had a change of heart over characters in VNs before (for example Steph in Leap of Faith), so I am open to changing my mind about Kaija. I think Kaija's character is interesting enough to play all her paths.

 

[Dark Silence]

I play the Kaija love path because I think she can be redeemed.

I guess you also think the succubus who tried to kill you can be redeemed also?

 

[ename144]

View attachment 3512656
View attachment 3512657


Hey everyone,

Another week passed and Easter was the busy and chaotic time I expected. It's good that it's behind us now. ;-)
Thanks to the 4-day weekend (Friday and Monday were days off here), I expected to get lower numbers done this week (days off usually mean days spent with the family).
Well... I'd say the numbers aren't exactly lower than usual.

I've almost finished my next internal test version and am just waiting for the pc to render the last several images.
Everything else is ready. So it's safe to say I did catch up with the renders according to my plan.
Next week will be mostly dedicated to setting up several environments that I need for the rest of Chapter 5.
Additionally, more writing and squeezing in renders where possible, of course.

Moving on to the numbers of this week:
120 new static renders for a total of 1156
0 new animations :-(
221 new lines in the script file for a total of 3116

Clearly lower numbers than usual on the render-side...

Have a nice weekend, guys.

Cheers,
Ceolag

Ceolag gave us the raw numbers, but it was another irregular week so we need to interpolate a bit. 120 statics, 0 animations and 221 line over 8 days works out to roughly 105 statics, 0.0 animations and 190 lines per standard week. Overall, the average now stands at ~86 statics, 2.6 animations, and 230 lines per week since work on Chapter 5 officially began. Here are the charts:

Spoiler: Charts - Week 14 (ish)

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It does seem like a productive week given the holiday. Not much to say other than that; numbers continue to accumulate, but there's obviously a ways to go.

 

[Elduriel]

I guess you also think the succubus who tried to kill you can be redeemed also?