VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

[xapican]

Yeah, I get that, there is just a particular story - something more specific, I just haven't figured it out yet (I have read a ton of folklore and mythology).

We guess she is inpired in Fòrla who is a Tuata de Danan, also the other sword could be Gram or one of the Mytic Celtic ones .

 

[TrixRabbit]

We guess she is inpired in Fòrla who is a Tuata de Danan, also the other sword could be Gram or one of the Mytic Celtic ones .

She hasn't given us a last name yet has she. She's talked about her family but didn't say which family IIRC?

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

But see, even the math on that isn't adding up for me. Kaija is about the same age as the MC, and her skill levels (for combat, driving etc) are off the charts - like a global elite level. You don't do that with a two year community college degree.

I used to have neighbors whose daughter wanted to be an Olympic figure skater. From early childhood she trained probably 6 hours / day on average + school. (She didn't make it, fwiw.) To get to the level she's at Kajia would have had to start training in early childhood. So, I'm assuming to get to her current skill level she's been in training - for many hours / day since before she and MC knew each other, or at least as long as they've known each other. Which would mean that she has known all along about the Templars, and about his parents and has been hiding a significant part of her life from her "best friend" the whole time.

Is it possible that the Templars didn't kill Finn? Sure, but unless I have evidence to support that, I'm going to take Medb's word and assume that they did.

Does it matter to me if Finn tried to kill Kajia first, and died in the attempt? No.

If I found that they didn't kill Finn would it make a difference? It would probably be the difference between me never wanting to speak to any of them again, for any reason and wanting to kill them all. But I would still offer to serve Medb in whatever capacity she needed me to. If she says yes, then I'm back to killing Templars. If she says no, then I go home and hang out with Fiona - Talking to Rebecca (alone, on her own, and not in Templar HQ) is the closest I'd get to talking to the Templars and I wouldn't even give Rebecca any information the Templars might be able to use against the Elves. I'd just tell her that the Templars are completely lying about them, and they are just trying to protect themselves from the Templars and who are bad.

I agree, Kaija skills are off the charts and I'm sure there is more to that, which we don't know yet. Finn was on a mission so if Kiaja did kill her, then it was probably in self-defence. That would make a difference to me not in how I feel about Kaija, but in that I wouldn't hold it against her.

Yeah I get it. I actually used to not be fully on the hate Templar train until the last update cause of Finn. I was always split cause they did wrong the MC but was never enough for me to fully hate them either. As I felt the Elfs were probably just as much in the wrong as the Templars. So now I do want that option to have Kaija pick me or the Templars. Ideally I would of liked to ask her after getting the father back while I didn't fully hate them then I also wanted to get her away from them, as I saw they were bad news for a relationship which is what I want with Kaija and still do. But now I want that choice more than ever.

I don't hate the Templars but they could use a broom and sweep out a lot of rubbish like the Strathinator and the like. It sounds like the relationship between Kaija and the MC was pretty rocky, so I don't know if I would say she was happy.

 

[TrixRabbit]

I agree, Kaija skills are off the charts and I'm sure there is more to that, which we don't know yet. Finn was on a mission so if Kiaja did kill her, then it was probably in self-defence. That would make a difference to me not in how I feel about Kaija, but in that I wouldn't hold it against her.


I don't hate the Templars but they could use a broom and sweep out a lot of rubbish like the Strathinator and the like. It sounds like the relationship between Kaija and the MC was pretty rocky, so I don't know if I would say she was happy.

Nah, I'm done with the templars - I wouldn't cross the street to save all of their lives. As for Kajia, if she killed Finn, I will kill her, no matter the cause or circumstances - if only so I can tell Finn's father, that she's been avenged. The Templars (one and all) are out of chances, out of excuses, and out of sympathy with me.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

I have one game that is fully monogamous with Fiona, and one that is fully monogamous with Medb (but that one may be a celibate playthrough since I've got max points with Medb but haven't even managed a hug yet.)

Same boat for me. Medb is definitely a slow burn that one. Its all that ice magic in her veins

I don't got all my saves made yet. but these are all my saves I have planned
Kaija Love Path ( side with the Templars)
Kaija Love Path ( burn bridges and fuck the Templars)
Kaija Love path ( I cheat on her on this one)
Fiona solo
Medb solo
Elea solo
Manslut
Might make one where I cheat on Medb

Damn Dess, you got more saves than me. I don't have that many Kaija paths. Maybe I should

 

[TrixRabbit]

I wonder if MC is the child Fiona ( mac Cumhaill?) found on the streets in Ireland - the reason she had to leave (and the reason she suddenly bumped into him again?) She looks like in her early 20s but she says that she left Ireland "many years ago" and that she did terrible things in her past that she can't bring herself to talk about ... was she 12 when she did these terrible things?

 

[xapican]

I wonder if MC is the child Fiona ( mac Cumhaill?) found on the streets in Ireland - the reason she had to leave (and the reason she suddenly bumped into him again?) She looks like in her early 20s but she says that she left Ireland "many years ago" and that she did terrible things in her past that she can't bring herself to talk about ... was she 12 when she did these terrible things?

Why don't you check the Lore and Legends thread ? linked in the OP ?

 

[TrixRabbit]

Ok, but I think I remember pretty well what she said. Is there extra stuff in there that is not in the game?

 

[xapican]

Ok, but I think I remember pretty well what she said. Is there extra stuff in there that is not in the game?

Mostly the Legends and the Mythologies on what the game is based, for extra stuff check his Discord
I didn't doubt what she said, Since you said you like Myths, just wanted to point you where you can find something.

 

[TrixRabbit]

Mostly the Legends and the Mythologies on what the game is based, for extra stuff check his Discord
I didn't doubt what she said, Since you said you like Myths, just wanted to point you where you can find something.

Ok, thanks! I'll check it out. Just wondering now if MC IS the child that she plucked from his dead parents in the streets of (some city) in Ireland because I don't think the couple that raised him are his parents and Fiona and his parents haven't been in a room together to get a reaction but I'm guessing that she is older (probably much older) than she looks.

 

[Dessolos]

As for Kajia, if she killed Finn, I will kill her, no matter the cause or circumstances -

I only agree if she was the aggressor but lets say she was only acting in self defense or other Templars she was with started it I can't blame her for killing Finn , especially when it's a life or death situation. What is she suppose to do not eliminate anyone attacking her or her allies when doing so could also mean her death instead. Sure be more ideal to just knock them out but that would be harder to do instead of going for the kill or injury them severely when in an active life or death fight , especially against 2 factions that kill one another regularly in skirmish fights.

I won't like it but killing her when she isn't a bad person to me is petty , too harsh and to much no matter what happened unless she was the aggressor . To me killing her in this scenario would make me / the MC worst than Kaija has ever been throughout the game as the MC would be killing an innocent person for something she wasn't at fault for.

Now if Kaija was a bad person instead of someone that is just an liar and made mistakes. Id probably feel differently and at least consider killing her if the option was there even tho it would make me a hypocrite.

 

[kingman01]

I only agree if she was the aggressor but lets say she was only acting in self defense or other Templars she was with started it I can't blame her for killing Finn , especially when it's a life or death situation. What is she suppose to do not eliminate anyone attacking her or her allies when doing so could also mean her death instead. Sure be more ideal to just knock them out but that would be harder to do instead of going for the kill or injury them severely when in an active life or death fight , especially against 2 factions that kill one another regularly in skirmish fights.

I won't like it but killing her when she isn't a bad person to me is petty , too harsh and to much no matter what happened unless she was the aggressor . To me killing her in this scenario would make me / the MC worst than Kaija has ever been throughout the game as the MC would be killing an innocent person for something she wasn't at fault for.

Now if Kaija was a bad person instead of someone that is just an liar and made mistakes. Id probably feel differently and at least consider killing her if the option was there even tho it would make me a hypocrite.

why would kaija has to act on self defense though? throughout last chapter finnabir went on a character development arc and wished for no war, then why would she go and attack templars willingly?, even if she is dead i dont believe she was killed by kaija, but maybe she was there when it happened and it will hurt MC to know she was there. I believe it was that asshole in the council who didnt want to give MC the sword killed her maybe, and it will lead to MC killing him, one of the council member of templars killed by heads son will sure put a spin to the story though

And I still hope Finnabir is not truly dead and developer has some plans to bring her back alive later in some way

 

[Dessolos]

why would kaija has to act on self defense though? throughout last chapter finnabir went on a character development arc and wished for no war, then why would she go and attack templars willingly?, even if she is dead i dont believe she was killed by kaija, but maybe she was there when it happened and it will hurt MC to know she was there. I believe it was that asshole in the council who didnt want to give MC the sword killed her maybe, and it will lead to MC killing him, one of the council member of templars killed by heads son will sure put a spin to the story though

And I still hope Finnabir is not truly dead and developer has some plans to bring her back alive later in some way

You are assuming it's only Finnabir vs Kaija. But there could be other elfs or Templars that attacked first and started the fight which was my point. As long as Kaija wasn't the aggressor either other Templars or some elfs that started it I wouldn't blame her if she was the one that did kill Fin. But yeah we don't even know Kaija was involved we are just assuming and making hypothetical situations for the sake of conversation.

 

[TrixRabbit]

why would kaija has to act on self defense though? throughout last chapter finnabir went on a character development arc and wished for no war, then why would she go and attack templars willingly?, even if she is dead i dont believe she was killed by kaija, but maybe she was there when it happened and it will hurt MC to know she was there. I believe it was that asshole in the council who didnt want to give MC the sword killed her maybe, and it will lead to MC killing him, one of the council member of templars killed by heads son will sure put a spin to the story though

And I still hope Finnabir is not truly dead and developer has some plans to bring her back alive later in some way

Yeah, it's possible that Finn was killed by Templars (even Kajia) because they wanted information about what happened to MC. It's unlikely to the point of absurd that Finn went and attacked the Templars, just at the point where MC had pretty much convinced the elves that war wasn't necessary. That's would make zero sense.

 

[AlexMpog]

Damn, you're still at it guys))

ive always been a Believer in the theory / idea that Kaija has been brainwashed by the templars from an Early Age , especially for how skilled she is , ( If I recall she is one of the stronger Templars). This one of the reasons among others I find it easier to forgive Kaija , and don't blame to many things on her as I put most of the blame on them not her.

Even entering the relationship I don't blame her for as I see it it's one the few things she has done that made her happy. Is it wrong cause some of the secrets sure depending on who you ask. I find it hard to be mad or blame her for it when I think how she most likely been brainwashed by them at a young age so her doing something that makes her happy even if it's wrong I find easy to forget and forgive. To me everything she has done even the things she did that was wrong makes more sense if she has been brainwashed and trained by the Templars from an early Age. ( Like the Jedi)

Just a small remark from me

Brainwashed at early age or not, Kaija is a capable human being, and just like MC she spent a lot of time outside, she wasn't raised in a tower without any contact to outer world. Hence when it comes to making decisions, by that moment she already should have known what is good and what is bad, like, for example, pretending to be in a relationship with your childhood friend to make you job easier is not nice thing to do.
Any decent human being who genuinely cared wouldn't do that.

Whether she fell in love eventually or not (depending on your path) doesn't negate what I said.
And blaming templars for everything... - nah, Kaija is a smart girl, I would even say very cunning, she perfectly knew what she was doing and what consequences it would have.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[TrixRabbit]

Damn, you're still at it guys))


Just a small remark from me

Brainwashed at early age or not, Kaija is a capable human being, and just like MC she spend a lot of time outside, she wasn't raised in a tower without any contact to outer world. Hence when it comes to making decisions, by that moment she already should have known what is good and what is bad, like, for example, pretending to be in a relationship with your childhood friend to make you job easier is not nice thing to do.
Any decent human being who genuinely cared wouldn't do that to him.

Whether she fell in love eventually or not (depending on your path) doesn't negate what I said.
And blaming templars for everything... - nah, Kaija is a smart girl, I would even say very cunning, she perfectly knew what she was doing and what consequences it would have.

Just 2 cents from me.

I agree with this. I think Kajia i just as responsible as anyone for what happened - though I did start a playthough where you remain with Kajia but burn bridges with your parents and the Templars just to see how that works (no idea yet because you don't see Kajia between the "burn bridges" decision and going to see the Elves.) I think it's entirely possible though that she killed Finn - possibly trying to find out what happened to MC.

 

[nitkonikic]

I really, really hope Kaija and Templars are not responsible for killing Finn.
That would be 1st time since this VN started it was dev decision I disagree with

Relationship with both Kaija, Templars and parents is strained to the point of breaking already.
Adding more to that pile would just be cruel.

Just my 2 eurocents, I'll go back to lurking now.

 

[Dessolos]

Damn, you're still at it guys))


Just a small remark from me

Brainwashed at early age or not, Kaija is a capable human being, and just like MC she spend a lot of time outside, she wasn't raised in a tower without any contact to outer world. Hence when it comes to making decisions, by that moment she already should have known what is good and what is bad, like, for example, pretending to be in a relationship with your childhood friend to make you job easier is not nice thing to do.
Any decent human being who genuinely cared wouldn't do that to him.

Whether she fell in love eventually or not (depending on your path) doesn't negate what I said.
And blaming templars for everything... - nah, Kaija is a smart girl, I would even say very cunning, she perfectly knew what she was doing and what consequences it would have.

Just 2 cents from me.

What you said is true there is no denying that. I think where my mind goes with the brainwashed theory is the Templars control Kaija too much. So my thinking is when it comes to entering a fake relationship ( love path only where it isn't only about the job). When she saw a chance at anything that can resemble a relationship , freedom , a temporary escape or happiness. She acted selfish in that moment and never looked back until she was in too deep. Under those conditions and my line of thinking I find it easy to forgive and feel bad for her even tho it is still shitty. But that is just me im a very forgiving person, too forgiving in fact.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I think many have forgotten an important factor in whether the Templars or Kaija killed Finnabir

And Finnabir spied on the MC for Medb

 

[PaxHadrian17]

I really, really hope Kaija and Templars are not responsible for killing Finn.
That would be 1st time since this VN started it was dev decision I disagree with

Relationship with both Kaija, Templars and parents is strained to the point of breaking already.
Adding more to that pile would just be cruel.

Just my 2 eurocents, I'll go back to lurking now.

I still think that there is a strong possibility that Finn was killed either at the instigation of the third party or by the third party with a coverup to obscure who did the actual killing.

We already know that the third party includes one or more powerful illusionists since we believe that one of them cast the blur/camouflage spell on the Damas that was sent to kill Medb in Neverwhere.

Could they hide several assassins outside the detection range of the Templars and Alfar who may (or may not) have met accidentally?

Attacks coming from the Templar's direction with responding attacks coming from the Alfar direction could easily escalate into a small battle - with the reason for the start of that battle lost to the 'fog of war.'

_____________________

As Medb's daughter, I think she carried a larger voice than some/many of her peers.

Her switch from 'hate all humans' to 'war with the humans is a bad idea' would make her a target for the third-party supporters among both Alfar and Templars.

The haters on either side could be unknowing pawns being influenced by the still hidden third party.

I'm curious what the templar position will be on who killed Finnabair and if the MC will find some among the Templars who do not agree with the 'official' story.

Will he be able to share this story with Fiona for example?

Will, in either this next release, or a future release, he get something from Fiona from a 'friend' who she asked to check into his concerns about Finn's death and the surrounding circumstances?

Ceo has us all playing Sherlock Holmes and I'm looking forward to both getting more clues and seeing who gives us those clues!

Cheers!!