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VN Ren'Py Completed The Symbiant [v1.1.7] [HeartCoreDev]

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Mayrun

Active Member
Feb 12, 2019
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I can't afford many games as is, so I prefer to invest in meatier games to tide me over until I can buy another one. So unless I know I'll like a game I pirate it as a demo, even if it has a public demo because those have been used to lie before.

Now, most games in here can only be "bought" through Patreon donations and it only accepts transaction from the one bank in my country I don't like making business with (not like I like making business with any bank, but you catch my drift) and I refuse to use Paypal.

That said I have gone back and bought smaller games in Steam once a bonus comes my way, but I'll almost asuredly never be part of the initial buyer wave.
 

Sarkath

Active Member
Sep 8, 2019
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Since this is a pirate website, I may as well ask: what made you guys want to pirate games in here?
I generally use this site to discover and discuss games, with the added benefit of being able to play a "demo version ;) ;)" of whatever looks interesting. Official game demos seem to be having a bit of a renaissance in recent days, but for smaller crowd-funded studios I understand that providing an up-to-date trial might not always be viable due to time and resource constraints.

There have been several games that I've either backed or purchased due to having played the F95 builds, this one being one notable example. :)

I would probably be a bit more generous with opening up my wallet, but I've seen (and backed…sigh) far too many games that have crippling developmental issues to blindly trust them moving forward. I'm glad that game development is more accessible than ever these days, but it feels like far too many developers follow a few Unity/Unreal tutorials and immediately open up a crowd-funding campaign for their magnum opus.
 
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hcdev

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Dec 14, 2019
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Oh jeez I forgot to report the thread yesterday.

So, if I read you guys' replies right, it seems like you are active members in the F95zone community who are into the "try before buy" strategy. That's the most common cited reason for pirating stuff. And that's what I would have done a few years ago.

When I was younger, I would pirate Japanese BL games because 1°) I had 0 money whatsoever up until I started working and earning my own and 2°) importing obscure physical Japanese games was an absolute nightmare I wasn't willing nor rich enough to go through. I had no problem buying stuff like Coming Out On Top though, that was easy to get online.

In my survey's answers, I feel a general sense of guilt from people who admit to not having the money or the will to buy BL games. For example, someone from the Philippine said:

"I...actually pirated all of the BL games I've played SN: I'm so sorry creators please forgive my broke ass child self. But I'm an adult now so I promise to support properly this time !!! :bowing_emoji:

I'm a bit ? at this answer, because most respondents admitting to piracy would just say "now that I have a job I'm paying back for the games I pirated". They DO the thing and then talk about it. But this person didn't do the thing. They say they're gonna do it... eventually. Which makes me wonder how common that mindset actually is.

The Thai person who streamed a pirated build of the game (though he didn't publicly release anything past the demo) told me he didn't know the build was pirated, and someone just gave him the link. Another person on Discord told us they found some nice game to play on PornGamesHub (which turned out to have The Symbiant too) and when I told them that it was a pirate website, answered that they now feel bad and don't know which websites are legit.

I can't help but wonder whether they were aware in some capacity that those were pirate websites, but stayed in denial so they wouldn't feel bad, or if computer literacy fell that much for someone not to be able to distinguish a pirate website from a legit one.

Somewhat relatedly, another person from Poland said:

Most of the bl games' prices are outrageous. Clearly a lot of the developers doesn't know shit about financial efficiency, buys expensive CGs and then acts surprised they can't make money out of their games. It's not a lucrative market and will never be, so they should focus on being creative with the plot instead of trying to make an AAA in a fucking renpy. Of course I wouldn't spend $20 dollars on a REGULAR book, even with nice pictures, so what the hell are they thinking when it comes to the virtual ones? And if anyone selected "more than $60" in one of the previous questions, then they are clearly retarted. (typo on 'retarted' included)

And then proceeds to tell me all about these >20$ games they must have bought off Steam.


There have been several games that I've either backed or purchased due to having played the F95 builds, this one being one notable example. :)

I would probably be a bit more generous with opening up my wallet, but I've seen (and backed…sigh) far too many games that have crippling developmental issues to blindly trust them moving forward. I'm glad that game development is more accessible than ever these days, but it feels like far too many developers follow a few Unity/Unreal tutorials and immediately open up a crowd-funding campaign for their magnum opus.
There's been a growing sense of distrust toward Kickstarter games these past 2-3 years following the big honeymoon phase Kickstarted enjoyed in 2014-2017. Far too many people felt scammed out of their money, and I still see today some games having their developer go AWOL and make you wonder they're still even alive. On the other hand, the developers who did manage to release a game tend to be trusted more and their returning backers are more likely to back higher tiers (like the $1000+ ones).


By the way, HeartCoreDev has been favorited 55 times on kemono.party.
 
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LoneRanger11

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Jul 3, 2020
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The Symbiant BL/Yaoi/Gay 0.6.2
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rpdl torrents are unaffiliated with both F95Zone and the developer of this game.
If you run into issues please use this thread or join us on !
,

We're crowdfunded, !​
 

Deleted member 1952336

Ortus
Game Developer
Jan 18, 2020
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So many of the best artists are gay.

Does being gay make you a better artist?

Or does becoming a better artist turn you gay, like gradual exploration of kinks or something?
 

hcdev

Active Member
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Dec 14, 2019
617
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So many of the best artists are gay.

Does being gay make you a better artist?

Or does becoming a better artist turn you gay, like gradual exploration of kinks or something?
If your only experience with gay games is through looking at F95zone's catalog, then the answer to your question is that only the most remarkable BL/yaoi/gay games end-up in there. They are the top 10% in a sea of more amateur and experimental games available on itchio or its free Japanese equivalent .

If you looked through all the games tagged "gay" on itchio and still found the majority to look more quality than straight games, it may simply be that gay games being a smaller market, whoever does makes gay games, does it out of passion, financial ruin be damned.

Another possible explanation is that, at least on the "BL" side (as opposed to "gay"), players tend to seek a good story and relationship buildup more than the porn itself. As such they care less about the variety of fetishes included and more about a distinct character design, expressive faces, more physical interaction during sex scenes and not just putting their dick in, etc...
 

hcdev

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Dec 14, 2019
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The Symbiant BL [0.6.2] Compressed (Half-Tested)

Win/Linux (668 MB/ 141 MB) :WorkUpload,

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Genuine question: would anyone download that? I personally would rather suffer downloading a game for 3 days at 10kb/s than play a fully voiced game with 50% video quality nerf but perhaps desperate situations may call for desperate means, I guess.
 
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Mayrun

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Feb 12, 2019
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Genuine question: would anyone download that? I personally would rather suffer downloading a game for 3 days at 10kb/s than play a fully voiced game with 50% video quality nerf but perhaps desperate situations may call for desperate means, I guess.
It depends both on the game and the compression itself, but most of the compressions made on this site are made so that you barely notice any difference. For example, there are some 5gb games on this site that the only difference in the versions is that the compression reduces the animation's fps. Now, I wouldn't download the compression of any game below 1.5gb, but before my internet distributor force changed all infrastructure to optic cable, 900mb was when I started looking into compressed versions.
 
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Sarkath

Active Member
Sep 8, 2019
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There's been a growing sense of distrust toward Kickstarter games these past 2-3 years following the big honeymoon phase Kickstarted enjoyed in 2014-2017. Far too many people felt scammed out of their money, and I still see today some games having their developer go AWOL and make you wonder they're still even alive. On the other hand, the developers who did manage to release a game tend to be trusted more and their returning backers are more likely to back higher tiers (like the $1000+ ones).
Exactly. I don't tend to feel that the failed projects are a result of malice. In many cases it's just a matter of amateurs going in way over their heads. Regardless of intent, however, it still winds up being a giant waste of time and money.

And that's not even getting into the Patreon/SubscribeStar mess. Hoo boy. Sometimes I really don't think some people are fully aware of just how much money they're giving to the creators during the development of a project.
 

hcdev

Active Member
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Dec 14, 2019
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Exactly. I don't tend to feel that the failed projects are a result of malice. In many cases it's just a matter of amateurs going in way over their heads. Regardless of intent, however, it still winds up being a giant waste of time and money.
A major beginner mistake I've seen is a dev (well, many devs) starting with a small project and going "oh I want to add this, and this, and oh I have this new character I want to add too..." aka "feature creep", while completely underestimating how much time and money is required to finish it all.

In order to avoid this, my friend and I decided to outline all the scenes and write at least 90% of the game's script BEFORE launching the Kickstarter. And we had 80% of the art assets finished before that too.

Having all of your script finished in advance means that:
  • you know how many voice lines you will need and how much $$$ it will cost
  • you know how many CGs and backgrounds you need and their cost
  • your ability to add new shit to your own game is now that much more limited. No blowing money on new story arcs or character or CGs, unless you have some spare money left after the main job is done
Our campaign ended 5 months ago and we're quite happy to say we paid for all of the game's assets and still have some Kickstarter money left for the two DLCs we planned. We finished the script of the first DLC and got some art done for it too.

As such, the itchio and patreon money we received so far are being used to translate the game, add more CGs to certain moments we feel are relevant and basically pay for bonus to an already finished product. Knowing we can use it in case we run out of Kickstarter money is very comforting too and helps me sleep at night.

And that's not even getting into the Patreon/SubscribeStar mess. Hoo boy. Sometimes I really don't think some people are fully aware of just how much money they're giving to the creators during the development of a project.
I've heard of way too many big backers being toxic to other members and the dev not daring to ban them or even give them a warning for fear they'll lose that member's money. To avoid this crap, we said: "no putting those who spent a big amount on KS or Patreon on a pedestal". The only special discord role we have is "smb beta" and it gives access to a channel to discuss The Symbiant's beta. That's it. It doesn't even color your username, so a beta backer is visually indistinguishable from other members.
 

nackedsnake

Engaged Member
Jan 29, 2019
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A major beginner mistake I've seen is a dev (well, many devs) starting with a small project and going "oh I want to add this, and this, and oh I have this new character I want to add too..." aka "feature creep", while completely underestimating how much time and money is required to finish it all.

In order to avoid this, my friend and I decided to outline all the scenes and write at least 90% of the game's script BEFORE launching the Kickstarter. And we had 80% of the art assets finished before that too.

Having all of your script finished in advance means that:
  • you know how many voice lines you will need and how much $$$ it will cost
  • you know how many CGs and backgrounds you need and their cost
  • your ability to add new shit to your own game is now that much more limited. No blowing money on new story arcs or character or CGs, unless you have some spare money left after the main job is done
Our campaign ended 5 months ago and we're quite happy to say we paid for all of the game's assets and still have some Kickstarter money left for the two DLCs we planned. We finished the script of the first DLC and got some art done for it too.

As such, the itchio and patreon money we received so far are being used to translate the game, add more CGs to certain moments we feel are relevant and basically pay for bonus to an already finished product. Knowing we can use it in case we run out of Kickstarter money is very comforting too and helps me sleep at night.
Man your development circle is impressive, even put some successful projects to shame (not that's easy in the first place).
Your ability as game developer is really admirable, on top of how you deal with pirating (many just pull their hairs / be angry / blame it for their business failure XD), as well as actively seeking language accessibility.
It's quite rare to see developer side of stories here, really give you different perspectives
IR you could actually write a documentary for those who aim to succeed in developing games. (Not how to make the most of money out of it)
I've heard of way too many big backers being toxic to other members and the dev not daring to ban them or even give them a warning for fear they'll lose that member's money. To avoid this crap, we said: "no putting those who spent a big amount on KS or Patreon on a pedestal". The only special discord role we have is "smb beta" and it gives access to a channel to discuss The Symbiant's beta. That's it. It doesn't even color your username, so a beta backer is visually indistinguishable from other members.
I think the Patreon interaction nature really makes it difficult to keep it professional, for both side. Especially when "commission" is a popular thing. Kudos to those who mange to deal with it professionally.
Somewhat relatedly, another person from Poland said:

Most of the bl games' prices are outrageous. Clearly a lot of the developers doesn't know shit about financial efficiency, buys expensive CGs and then acts surprised they can't make money out of their games. It's not a lucrative market and will never be, so they should focus on being creative with the plot instead of trying to make an AAA in a fucking renpy. Of course I wouldn't spend $20 dollars on a REGULAR book, even with nice pictures, so what the hell are they thinking when it comes to the virtual ones? And if anyone selected "more than $60" in one of the previous questions, then they are clearly retarted. (typo on 'retarted' included)

And then proceeds to tell me all about these >20$ games they must have bought off Steam.
TBH, I sometimes confused how porn creator pricing their products.
Imaging something like "God of War" "Elden Ring" which offer tons of contents in every perspective, only sell for 60USD.
Meanwhile any thing touches "porn" would normally be tagged way more, especially those seeing Patreon as selling business, not fundraising. It's not like these need more labour / skills?
Genuine question: would anyone download that? I personally would rather suffer downloading a game for 3 days at 10kb/s than play a fully voiced game with 50% video quality nerf but perhaps desperate situations may call for desperate means, I guess.
I download compressed all the time, for WIP games, or anything I like to try but not sure, It's quite a convenient way.
OFC not for a fully released game that I care about (those I'd prefer a hard copy if possible :LOL:)
If you looked through all the games tagged "gay" on itchio
Not sure if I'm doing it wrong, but I find itch very bad experience for explore gay games, I almost can't find anything noticeable if I didn't get a link from F95 first, Or someone I followed favoured a new one
 
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Sarkath

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Sep 8, 2019
531
908
A major beginner mistake I've seen is a dev (well, many devs) starting with a small project and going "oh I want to add this, and this, and oh I have this new character I want to add too..." aka "feature creep", while completely underestimating how much time and money is required to finish it all.
Definitely. I know that's caused me a lot of problems when I learned how to code. I underestimated just how important project management skills and organization are. It sounds boring, but it actually makes the development process easier in the long run.

I think the most painful part is that this isn't limited to amateur developers. Chris Roberts and Peter Molyneux are two examples of talented devs/designers that desperately need someone managing them, otherwise they fall into this very trap.

In order to avoid this, my friend and I decided to outline all the scenes and write at least 90% of the game's script BEFORE launching the Kickstarter.
I took a peek at your Kickstarter and it's a perfect example of something I would have considered backing had I seen it. The game's features were well articulated, the page isn't littered with stretch goals (and the ones that are there are quite attainable), you provided both demos and plenty of screenshots, and you've already shipped a game.

Congratulations on the successful campaign, by the way!
 
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Nov 9, 2017
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Definitely. I know that's caused me a lot of problems when I learned how to code. I underestimated just how important project management skills and organization are. It sounds boring, but it actually makes the development process easier in the long run.

I think the most painful part is that this isn't limited to amateur developers. Chris Roberts and Peter Molyneux are two examples of talented devs/designers that desperately need someone managing them, otherwise they fall into this very trap.



I took a peek at your Kickstarter and it's a perfect example of something I would have considered backing had I seen it. The game's features were well articulated, the page isn't littered with stretch goals (and the ones that are there are quite attainable), you provided both demos and plenty of screenshots, and you've already shipped a game.

Congratulations on the successful campaign, by the way!
I was agreeing with you until you brought up Chris "I'm a scam artist" Roberts
 
Nov 9, 2017
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A major beginner mistake I've seen is a dev (well, many devs) starting with a small project and going "oh I want to add this, and this, and oh I have this new character I want to add too..." aka "feature creep
I believe they call that Kitchen Sink Syndrome.
 

hcdev

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Game Developer
Dec 14, 2019
617
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I believe they call that Kitchen Sink Syndrome.
Feature Creep, Scope Creep, Kitchen Sink Syndrome, Requirement Creep. The issue has many names that all point to poor project planning and not keeping a close watch to your treasury.
 
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Sarkath

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Sep 8, 2019
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I was agreeing with you until you brought up Chris "I'm a scam artist" Roberts
If he went in with bad intentions Star Citizen's development would have already stopped. Why would he continue to pay over 600 employees and have his studio actively develop the game if he were solely out to scam people? It's still under active development, but the scope is so massive that they'd need a miracle to implement everything.

Obviously that doesn't make the end result for the consumer any better, but it doesn't make what I said untrue. He had a great track record up until this point (though you'd certainly be forgiven for not knowing about it; he hasn't worked on any games of note since 2003), he just needs to be kept on a tight leash. There's an that goes into this.

Honestly, out of the two of them I'd say that Molyneux is far worse. He just gets less press nowadays.
 

nackedsnake

Engaged Member
Jan 29, 2019
2,825
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If he went in with bad intentions Star Citizen's development would have already stopped. Why would he continue to pay over 600 employees and have his studio actively develop the game if he were solely out to scam people? It's still under active development, but the scope is so massive that they'd need a miracle to implement everything.

Obviously that doesn't make the end result for the consumer any better, but it doesn't make what I said untrue. He had a great track record up until this point (though you'd certainly be forgiven for not knowing about it; he hasn't worked on any games of note since 2003), he just needs to be kept on a tight leash. There's an that goes into this.

Honestly, out of the two of them I'd say that Molyneux is far worse. He just gets less press nowadays.
Why would any crowdfunding scam project keep going?
You think the "pay over 600 employees" (realy tho?) match the slightest portion of the money they got?
And you have any proof Star Citizen is under "active development", not just the bare minimal to keep the scam going? All their show-cases are implying otherwise.
"The scope is too massive to carry out" is not an excuse. You take the money, you take the resources, but you don't deliver, that's scam.
If following your logic, Why a massive project like this don't have an competent project manager?
 

Sarkath

Active Member
Sep 8, 2019
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If following your logic, Why a massive project like this don't have an competent project manager?
"Chris Roberts and Peter Molyneux are two examples of talented devs/designers that desperately need someone managing them."
-Me, yesterday

Anyway, this is my last post on the matter because this is getting royally off-topic. I'll simply conclude this with saying that we don't disagree as much as you apparently think we do, but I won't continue this line of discussion here.
 
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hcdev

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Dec 14, 2019
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I'm trying to find a way to upload SMB to popular torrent sites like ThePirateBay, 1337x and nyaa, but none of these websites allow upload from newbies, at least last time I tried after creating an account.

I'm sad thinking the only time SMB will end up there is when Darksiders will upload it to IGG while adding their own DRM. :cry:
 
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