Mod Ren'Py Abandoned Time For Dragons - Defiler Wings: Deranged Dragon Mod [29-07-2020] [Jman]

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Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
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Lillibilli: First, thanks for all the feedback! I really appreciate it, even if I then try to shoot some of your ideas down again. :D

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Lillibilli

Newbie
May 31, 2017
24
25
This is getting quite long with all the quotes so I'll spoiler it.
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My feedback is made on the early game and if i didn't convince you with this no amount of additional arguments are going to sway you so i ain't going to try again on this issues.

Now rereading this makes it seem i'm butthurt that you didn't listen to me, but that is not my intention, i believe in what i said would make the game better and as such made a second post to try to clarify and sway your opinion where i felt i wasn't clear enough, but in the end the game is yours to make and i appreciate the effort you put on this regardless on how i sound.
 
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Jman9

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Jul 17, 2019
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Ah, a man like myself when it comes to excessively detailed posts. (y)

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I think that ultimately the best way to convince me to add or change something is to come up with some code, or at least an approximation thereof. Just like you did before.

Edit: Ah, I get the mockup and directional complaints now. You're accustomed to combat a la Darkest Dungeon or Star Traders: Frontiers, where everything is on one line and tanks are the rightmost. TfD is perpendicular to that.

Edit2: I gave the groupie free upkeep and tried a vanilla red dragon. Took me three months (and something like half of that was cycling through events waiting for the right chance, so religious reloading could cut down on that quite a bit), some moderate reloading and a lot of sheep to get to small size. After that, it was starting to look like smooth sailing, with a full squad of goblins and peddlers for income (I managed to get at least 1 gold coin apiece for several tries in a row). So I don't think the early game is that hard or unbalanced.

The worst things that happened were about 30 seals gone and the Thief, who robbed me twice. :mad:

Most of the time, when I had to reload, I knew what I had done wrong, too. Let my rage overflow, let satiety go critically low, tried peddlers without at least two goblins (reloading one failed fight to get the second goblin is okay-ish in my book), left mobilization up, that sort of stuff. It was never 'forgot to savescum'.

I do know 'the ropes' since I set them up, but I figure any player who sticks around can learn these things fairly quickly.
 
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morph6785

Member
Jan 12, 2019
147
47
Code:
I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
  File "game/tl/english/_story/events/fairy.rpy", line 468, in script
    old "Отдать"
Exception: A translation for "Отдать" already exists at game/db/tl/english/_story/events/fairy.rpy:469.

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
  File "game/tl/english/_story/events/fairy.rpy", line 468, in script
    old "Отдать"
  File "C:\Users\Goran\Downloads\Time_for_Dragons_DD_Mod_Sep_2020\Time_for_Dragons-1.1.1-pc-DDM_Sep_2020\renpy\ast.py", line 2318, in execute
    renpy.translation.add_string_translation(self.language, self.old, self.new, newloc)
  File "C:\Users\Goran\Downloads\Time_for_Dragons_DD_Mod_Sep_2020\Time_for_Dragons-1.1.1-pc-DDM_Sep_2020\renpy\translation\__init__.py", line 450, in add_string_translation
    stl.add(old, new, newloc)
  File "C:\Users\Goran\Downloads\Time_for_Dragons_DD_Mod_Sep_2020\Time_for_Dragons-1.1.1-pc-DDM_Sep_2020\renpy\translation\__init__.py", line 388, in add
    quote_unicode(old), fn, line))
Exception: A translation for "Отдать" already exists at game/db/tl/english/_story/events/fairy.rpy:469.

Windows-8-6.2.9200
Ren'Py 7.2.2.491
Время для Драконов: Королевство Монстров 28-09-20
Tue Oct 13 13:04:39 2020
How to fix this?
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
Exception: A translation for "Отдать" already exists at game/db/tl/english/_story/events/fairy.rpy:469.

How to fix this?
By maintaining proper directory structure. How come you have a 'game/db/tl' directory in addition to or instead of just 'game/tl'?
 

Lillibilli

Newbie
May 31, 2017
24
25
Made a rough addition to the forest to hunt small animals (includes a new fox enemy that is weaker than a dog), the boar and deer might be too convenient for later on, but didn't test that far, could make them rarer or just remove them altogether.

Edit: Added Whelp avatar mod, smaller than medium dragons get a whelp pic, also correctly sets the selected avatar at character creation as the base avatar.

Edit2:Updated the small Mods.txt
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Er, what? You mean because the locations are in a list, they get invisible 'difficulty ratings'?
Yeah, kinda, they are in relative difficulty order.
I think the proper solution to this is making a difficulty level(s) with the dragon starting as small, not introducing more convoluted mechanics.
I disagree that skipping the stage entirely would be a proper solution (though it is a quick way, maybe for easy? although that is easy enough as it is).
Between the hunting option and a reduced tiny to small requirements you still get to have the wimpy stage, but it is far less of a chore and more about learning the basics, considering that i'm hardly a new player anymore i ain't sure if that is enough, but at least it is an alternative strategy to the one (tedious) possible solution of before.
 
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Jman9

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Jul 17, 2019
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Made a rough addition to the forest

the boar and deer might be too convenient for later on
I can definitely use this, but it desperately needs better pictures. When I get some time, I'll have a look around.

I was actually thinking of not creating a new 'encounter list', and depleting the forest animal event chances faster when you hunt. And possibly some level requirement similar to the treasure caches. Or a fear malus, so a big dragon just scares everything away. :D

Added Whelp avatar mod
The trouble with avatars is, for some reasons 'drag', the 'NPC object' that shows your picture when talking, isn't updated when the avatar changes. I don't really know exactly why. Ren'Py NPC objects are not always well-behaved. I had to make a separate 'drag_as_king' version for the witch quest. So currently, avatar changes will be limited to 'profile' and combat.

Small size evolution easier
Not a fan of this, small size is already quite a bit more powerful than anything else costing 40 XP.

I disagree that skipping the stage entirely would be a proper solution (though it is a quick way, maybe for easy? although that is easy enough as it is).
I was thinking of making 'very easy' with medium size and 100 gold, 'easy' with small and 20 gold (but otherwise having a similar bonus to evolving and malus to enemies), 'normal' with small, 'normal+' with tiny, hard and draconian. This way, people can skip the 'whelp' stage if they want to or are bored of it.

If anyone has better ideas, I'm listening.

Between the hunting option and a reduced tiny to small requirements you still get to have the wimpy stage, but it is far less of a chore
As far as hunting goes, is it really? The fox gives you nothing you can't get from the lone farm with a better reward/action ratio, even given you have to throw every third fight or so. The rabbit is a guaranteed geese encounter. And hunting sheep with a goblin in tow is far better for speeding up evolution than either.

I like the addition for its flavour, but I don't think it actually is a game-changer of any kind.

Halving the evolution time of course cuts any 'chores' in half as well. :p

Thinking about all this, I'm actually leaning towards making a third 'hunt' option, 'hunt for herds' at the countryside. Gives you guaranteed geese/sheep/pigs/cows, but again depletes the chances faster and has a failure rate similar to merchant-hunting.

All in all, I now have a lot of good suggestions to work with, so another update might take a while. Perhaps a week or two, even. And I still have the 'forest adventures' on my todo list as well.
 

Lillibilli

Newbie
May 31, 2017
24
25
I was actually thinking of not creating a new 'encounter list', and depleting the forest animal event chances faster when you hunt.

As far as hunting goes, is it really? The fox gives you nothing you can't get from the lone farm with a better reward/action ratio, even given you have to throw every third fight or so. The rabbit is a guaranteed geese encounter. And hunting sheep with a goblin in tow is far better for speeding up evolution than either.

I like the addition for its flavour, but I don't think it actually is a game-changer of any kind.
I looked at the encounter generator and making a new list just looked easier, but yeah that's a good idea.

The idea i had is that the more common encounters there (rabbit and fox) are useful only for a tiny and maybe small dragon, but anything over it will get screwed by those events, the boar is the boss of the area which can be taken down if you use goblins liberally which is a good extra if you come prepared.
While tiny the only thing that truly screws you is the deer encounter (and guards if mobilization is up), and it makes it a safe-ish choice to stay afloat.

All in all the hunting option is aimed for a clear safe-ish choice while tiny, not the best.
Imo it IS gamechanger for the simple reason that it gives more options, not necessarily optimal, but more nonetheless, the small dragon has options open up to it that the tiny one just doesn't have, this tides over a tiny dragon with more variety.

The trouble with avatars is, for some reasons 'drag', the 'NPC object' that shows your picture when talking, isn't updated when the avatar changes. I don't really know exactly why. Ren'Py NPC objects are not always well-behaved. I had to make a separate 'drag_as_king' version for the witch quest. So currently, avatar changes will be limited to 'profile' and combat.
Ah, missed that, gonna look into it and see if i can solve it later, just to state the obvious why not just add an update of the drag in the update_avatar function?

Not a fan of this, small size is already quite a bit more powerful than anything else costing 40 XP.

Halving the evolution time of course cuts any 'chores' in half as well. :p
True, but the other options are essentially traps, clear traps since as you said the size option is a clear winner, but traps that lock you into the tiny stage for far longer than it should be, making the size the fast option encourages picking that.
The tiny stage does have a place in the game imo, but it should be by no means a long stage, and 40 days (with optimal rolls and strategy going into 8 rest cycles) is too much, keep in mind that the small to medium is an 80 exp option (and that is if you pick that as the next) is still going to keep the wimpy stage going, but at least there are relevant choices that can be made then.

I was thinking of making 'very easy' with medium size and 100 gold, 'easy' with small and 20 gold (but otherwise having a similar bonus to evolving and malus to enemies), 'normal' with small, 'normal+' with tiny, hard and draconian. This way, people can skip the 'whelp' stage if they want to or are bored of it.

If anyone has better ideas, I'm listening.
Actually for 'normal' i would still keep the tiny and give 15-20 gold, you can un-wimp yourself with the trainer and have goblin options without necessarily knowing how to get the money when starting out.
Put the skip to small option as 'normal-' (you are skipping a stage after all, not exactly normal as i would expect the option to be feature complete). ^^
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
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...this tides over a tiny dragon with more variety.
Fair enough.

...why not just add an update of the drag in the update_avatar function?
It's there. It just doesn't work. :(

True, but the other options are essentially traps
Sort of, but some are kinda viable. The attack and HP paws, some of the combat specials, creepy ugliness perhaps as well. Anything that gives you +1 power or some other new option (fear).

Edit2: Small size also has the drawback that you can no longer have 0 infamy level.

The tiny stage ... 40 days ... is too much...
Obviously, I like it just as long or longer, but I acknowledge that not everyone does.

Actually for 'normal' i would still keep the tiny and give 15-20 gold
15-20 is a lot. Even 5-10 is pretty good. Maybe 10? Actually, scratch that and see below.

...you can un-wimp yourself with the trainer
The trainer is definitely a trap at this stage. The 60 gold required to get +1 power is far better saved for a homunculus, and doesn't make you very much more combat-capable.

...have goblin options without necessarily knowing how to get the money
I could extend the groupie to 'normal-'. I'm giving it free upkeep, after all. Maybe that would work instead of +10 gold? Or possibly both?

Put the skip to small option as 'normal-'
I think I'll just make a 'normal+' difficulty that's the old normal, a 'normal' one with 5 gold and the free-upkeep groupie regardless of head choice, and an option to pick your size independent from that.

Edit: Okay, I looked and found a way to change avatars on the fly. Cludgy, but works. This Ren'Py stuff is annoying sometimes.
 
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Gantithoren

Member
Aug 25, 2020
102
54
Made a rough addition to the forest to hunt small animals (includes a new fox enemy that is weaker than a dog), the boar and deer might be too convenient for later on, but didn't test that far, could make them rarer or just remove them altogether
Speaking as a guy who used to live in a gameland due to everywhere else being way too pricey, boar are NOT something a dragon that can barely win against a dog half the time should even think about tangling with. At all. Those things are huge and vile tempered. As in, bigger then some cars huge. Frankly, the current boar in game (A big-ass fight that gives a ton of food and some magic buffs) is a way better representation of one then a 5-food rando for a tiny dragon.
 
Mar 28, 2017
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Speaking as a guy who used to live in a gameland due to everywhere else being way too pricey, boar are NOT something a dragon that can barely win against a dog half the time should even think about tangling with. At all. Those things are huge and vile tempered. As in, bigger then some cars huge. Frankly, the current boar in game (A big-ass fight that gives a ton of food and some magic buffs) is a way better representation of one then a 5-food rando for a tiny dragon.
You talking about Eurasian boar? Personally I've never seen them myself. I live in a place with a ton of wild hogs though. Pound for Pound they are much stronger in a general sense than most dogs of equal weight, exceptions being some pure hunting dogs.
The thing with wild hogs though is that they travel in packs. Do Boars do that or is that just a hog thing?
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
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wild hogs
While true, this is all moot since the in-game boar already is somewhere between an archer and a footman in toughness. If anything, it's a little overpowered. I know I'd be willing to face a boar rather than a mail-wearing semi-professional warrior or someone earning his living with a ranged weapon. Even if the end result would be a dead Jman all the same. :oops:

I've never seen the local wild boar myself (outside of a zoo, that is; city boy :)), but from what I gather, they're not car-sized nor especially aggressive. A pain for the farmers, but mostly because they can't do much about them. Fortunately, they're not all that common, either. And they seem to follow the common pattern of 'men single' and 'women and children in a pack ruled by a granny'. :D I suppose you could get a group fight out of them by trying to mess with the cubs.
 
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salking

Member
Mar 24, 2018
203
46
Having fun with the mod so far (even with some save scumming)

My main problem at this point is the mobilization which is at 8 in my last save.
And I guess my infamy, currently at 127/9.
Was up to 170 so I started picking fights and throwing them whenever I could unless I needed food

Currently a small red serpent with huge fangs and working on some working paws.
On the dragonspawn quest and having trouble keeping the breeding stock locked up
302 days in with 170 slept away (don't know if it still early or mid game)

Had fun giving the "hero" and thief the slip once where I could not load my way out of them finding my lair.
Just had to change lair and read their disappointed lines.

Also do you need to be able to swim or fly to find the smugglers isle?
I need to convert some loot to coin.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
My main problem... mobilization which is at 8...
...infamy, currently at 127/9.
Currently a small...
Mobilization and infamy are almost the same thing. You trade mobilization for fear, aka seals loss.

Small serpents should really keep a lower profile than that. If you hit 10 mobilization, things will really start to become worse.

...trouble keeping the breeding stock locked up
Put them in cages. Or any building, really. Or grow wings or gills and find a secluded lair.

302 days in with 170 slept away (don't know if it still early or mid game)
If you're small-sized without the Witch, smugglers and lizardmen unlocked you're still in early game, I'd say.

Had fun giving the "hero" and thief the slip...

Just had to change lair and read their disappointed lines.
They'll be back. :D You can keep moving, but this way you'll be wasting time, never get any buildings (so limited cages, pregnancies take twice as long and you can't stop the seals going down), and you'll take a hit to your pride. ;)

Also do you need to be able to swim or fly to find the smugglers isle?
No, just that you have magic unlocked via the Witch quest line, and medium size. There's an extended quest line for that. Read back a bit in the thread for tips.

I need to convert some loot to coin.
Can be done at the Witch store. Or the Capital, if you're magical enough. The Witch store is a ripoff, though.
 

salking

Member
Mar 24, 2018
203
46
Sound like I need to get some magic in my blood then, will probably go for medium size next
And the reason I need to evade the hero for now at least, is the 5x health pool.
But I guess there are ways to weaken them
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
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Sound like I need to get some magic in my blood then, will probably go for medium size next
Yeah, medium will automatically give you magic. You could also mutate your head to get magic faster. This way, you get the Witch's services online sooner, including the shop, milking for money and unlocking magic use.

...5x health pool.
o_O Uh, what? You mean the knight will spank you like a kitten? That is going to remain the case for a while, unfortunately. Not attracting the Knight is another reason to keep infamy as low as possible.

But I guess there are ways to weaken them
Only after unlocking the smugglers and getting a regular income stream.
 

salking

Member
Mar 24, 2018
203
46
Alright i actually put a girl in a cage now, only for it to crash when i try to interact with her while she's in there
and yes I have should have the 6b hotfix.
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Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
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crash

File "game/_script/lair/lair - label.rpy", line 311, in <module>
if isinstance(result[2],Girl) and lair.room_view.id != 'sacrifical_chamber':
Something is wrong with your install, because 6b should have that line at either 307 or 317. No, that's okay.

How are you interacting with her? Clicking on the cage and then the portrait?

Edit: Ah, the assign screen. Try replacing 'lair.room_view' with 'result[3]' in the indicated file and line.
Edit2: Or just use the cage directly until the next hotfix hits.
 
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salking

Member
Mar 24, 2018
203
46
Yes i was going through the assign screen, didn't even think of looking for other ways to access it
 

morph6785

Member
Jan 12, 2019
147
47
The game keeps continues to crash and asks for some missing files in directorium. I also have a bug with witch quest and start from the beginning. I trying to play just with girls from girls from dark wood to noot raise infamy. I built in a lair cage and have one girl inside when I try to play with her game crashing. Does anyone have a similar problem?
 
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