Mod Ren'Py Abandoned Time For Dragons - Defiler Wings: Deranged Dragon Mod [29-07-2020] [Jman]

[Drachos]

So first a bug....kinda.

If you end up on zero stamina and zero Satiation you get soft locked. You can neither go to sleep (as you can't sleep while starving) nor can you hunt anything (As you are to tired to hunt)

This really should just be a game over screen.


And I will note as a personal thing, the fact that the game's evolution system is tied into your health is kinda annoying, especially early on. I am not sure you can do anything about that as a modder, and from everything I am reading, it gets better latter on, but early game it really kind of sucks.


Finally, while I acknowledge that having to earn those heads latter on slows down the game, (as you have to sleep a bunch) Steel or Blue head really are the best starts. ESPECIALLY if you want to be a solo dragon who doesn't depend on anyone.

Yes, latter on, you can deplete the Tuna supplies, but early game mobilization means you can end up in a situation where you can only eat sheep and geese. In addition its much easier to avoid fights in the Sea then on the land as mobilization increase, which is critically important if you want to play as a solo dragon.

While steel just deal with that mobilization by killing things (to a certain point. High Mobilization + Bull will still kick your teeth in early game.).

At the very least I would suggest removing "Gold Head" from the best start list. Unless I am missing something desperately, the ability to "See the Unseen" doesn't help early game at all, when your main concern is, "Not dying"

Edit: Okay Bronze head is fairly good for a similar reason to steel head. Maybe my objection is just to gold head.
But on the subject of WHY?!? If I am a starvation induced frenzy, why will I waste Stamina investigating buildings.

 

[Jman9]

No multiple girls. The game pretty much never gives you multiples. The horned gods are almost the only counterexample, and these were a pain to script.

Also, these are adventurers. Being randomly fucked by bandits is about as anticlimactic as it gets. I've also never understoond the desire to make the dragon into a 'white knight'. Once or twice for the novelty of it, sure. But the game already has that.

Basically, go and check out the actual 'forest' pictures. Implementing all of them is going to be enough work without adding more stuff (cages, slimes, armwrestling etc).

And I can't really use these half-baked ideas to speed up anything. I'm not short on overall ideas, I'm lacking time to actually implement them. Look at what I had to do with Lillibilli's woodland animals, these were ready-made events of reasonable quality and polishing them still took a while.

I understand the desire to brainstorm more encounters, but adding random 'cool stuff' is best left to sub-mods. I have enough on my plate as it is.

 

[zzczys]

I love the fox cuddle image, its so hilarious. Slutty alva in the forest is fun too.

 

[Jman9]

You can neither go to sleep (as you can't sleep while starving) nor can you hunt anything (As you are to tired to hunt)

This really should just be a game over screen.

There is one. The trouble is that I've added more mechanics since I first implemented this, and I can't be too liberal triggering this, or you'll get a 'game over' when the game isn't really over yet. E.g. you still have milk in your inventory, or a girl you could eat. I'll take a look at the conditions sometime.

And I will note as a personal thing, the fact that the game's evolution system is tied into your health is kinda annoying, especially early on. I am not sure you can do anything about that as a modder...

Uh, what? Health is in no way gating anything evolution-related. And I can do pretty much anything any Ren'Py developer can do, the only concern is effort vs benefit.

...Steel or Blue head really are the best starts.

IDK, I've never found the Blue head all that good. And Gold is pretty much mandatory on impossible. Steel also doesn't get the starter goblin nor access to the witch straight away. It might be good, but it's not OP good.

Yes, latter on, you can deplete the Tuna supplies, but early game mobilization means you can end up in a situation where you can only eat sheep and geese.

Tuna is comparable to a small village satiety-wise, and far worse from an action economy POV. Geese are worth it only if you play 'bronzeman'. The real benefit from the Sea are the mermaids, and later on the ships.

In addition its much easier to avoid fights in the Sea...

Um, what? You can almost always avoid fights if your rage isn't overflowing.

While steel just deal with that mobilization by killing things

If you're going solo from the start, maybe. That's a challenge you set for yourself, and having a head for that isn't a bad thing, now is it?

Steel + four minions isn't substantially different from anything else + four minions, combat-wise.

At the very least I would suggest removing "Gold Head" from the best start list. Unless I am missing something desperately, the ability to "See the Unseen" doesn't help early game at all, when your main concern is, "Not dying"

AFAIK, Gold is the only head that even has a chance on impossible. Why should I remove it? And 'seeing the unseen' is a foil for the thieves people have been complaining about here.

'Not dying' is accomplished by having minions, and gold has access to milking and therefore as many goblins as needed.

But on the subject of WHY?!? If I am a starvation induced frenzy, why will I waste Stamina investigating buildings.

Maybe there's food in there? The dragon isn't really rational at that point.

 

[zzczys]

Maybe there's food in there?

The scent of food perhaps.

 

[Drachos]

If you're going solo from the start, maybe. That's a challenge you set for yourself, and having a head for that isn't a bad thing, now is it?

Before I continue I will add that all this is from the perspective of someone who jumped to this from Defiler Wings. As I loved that game, as it very much was a dragon simulator, whereas the game your modding kinda wasn't (thus the mod).

So yes, while I am self inflicting this condition its because I came from that game and the only thing that indicates "You can have minions that help you in battle" is the UI tutorial thing. And you can say all you like, "That should be enough, big brother tells you to read it" but their is a reason modern video games have tutorials.

More over, as a Dragon sim, I am not sure what Dragon media you have that has them going into combat with minions. DnD occasionally does kobolds but thats about it.

Dragons are usually good enough on their own. At least to beat a Peasent.

HOWEVER all that is being critical of the game as a "I am a Dragon hear me roar" sim, rather then the mechanics, so I will stop there and move on.

There is one. The trouble is that I've added more mechanics since I first implemented this, and I can't be too liberal triggering this, or you'll get a 'game over' when the game isn't really over yet. E.g. you still have milk in your inventory, or a girl you could eat. I'll take a look at the conditions sometime.

AFAIK, Gold is the only head that even has a chance on impossible. Why should I remove it? And 'seeing the unseen' is a foil for the thieves people have been complaining about here.

'Not dying' is accomplished by having minions, and gold has access to milking and therefore as many goblins as needed.

Okay you are going to have to explain this, as I went through the intro, the UI guide and the gold head section and I see nothing that explains how this milking mechanic works or what it is. All Gold is told is that it can "See the Unseen" which usually means its good at finding treasures or seeing through illusions. (Or thieves as you say).

The only place I see Milk referenced at all is in Orders. I figured it would be under craft, but nope.

Uh, what? Health is in no way gating anything evolution-related. And I can do pretty much anything any Ren'Py developer can do, the only concern is effort vs benefit.

Okay, no not technically. But if you want to spend your satiation on Evolving instead of healing, you have to fiddle with Orders. And if you run out of Satiation it drains health. So no, you are right, but if you want to focus on evolving for whatever reason its kinda clunky.

More to the problem is when you do a long sleep to heal as much as possible, and instead its to long and so you loose health overall. That's somewhat frustrating Maths the player shouldn't need to deal with, but as this is a mod its probably not the highest priority to fix.

Steel also doesn't get the starter goblin nor access to the witch straight away. It might be good, but it's not OP good.

Gonna be honest... 50 copper extra isn't a big loss for Steel. The only other thing (That I can see) they would spend the money on at the start of the game is Attack Mastery.

Admittedly not playing on the highest difficulty so there is maybe a big deal.

Tuna is comparable to a small village satiety-wise, and far worse from an action economy POV. Geese are worth it only if you play 'bronzeman'. The real benefit from the Sea are the mermaids, and later on the ships.

We are talking at the start of the game... cause a small village at mobilization 2 can seriously challenge a solo dragon on easy, so I can't imagine a Dragon with a team of goblins does well in that fight againest a Hard difficulty village.

Um, what? You can almost always avoid fights if your rage isn't overflowing.

Huntsmen says hi. And if killing people gets harder on harder difficulties like I think it does, running into a Huntsmen before you've grown in size at least once on Hard is probably very painful even with a team.

If it doesn't, then thats a different matter entirely, but man has that huntsmen ruined some of my runs going at it solo.

Maybe there's food in there? The dragon isn't really rational at that point.

Thats fair.

Okay as a final comment, and its probably something that only applies to me and only because of the way I play the game, but a way to skip the intro text would be nice. Once I get better it won't be a problem, but its annoying having to click through the same stuff again and again.

Oh and you may want to remove the text about the Smuggler's isle in the talking with the Dark Lady bit. As far as I can tell that tip isn't useful at game start anymore (if ever).


Edit: Oh and is Growing Pains meant to auto complete as a quest even if you are the smallest sized Dragon still?

 

[flamewolf393]

"But on the subject of WHY?!? If I am a starvation induced frenzy, why will I waste Stamina investigating buildings."
"Maybe there's food in there? The dragon isn't really rational at that point. "


Whats even worse is that a cat sized dragon would not fight an ogre, or a herd of cows, or an armored patrol no matter how frenzied he is. Theres a difference between irrational behavior and straight up stupidity/suicidalness. Honestly I think the dragon we play as is an idiot and a huge disappointment to mother. There should always be an ignore option for truly overpowering opponents. Or hell let us eat a goblin if things are that desperate.

 

[Jman9]

...Defiler Wings. As I loved that game, as it very much was a dragon simulator...

As much as I like DW, it was more of a dragon dynasty CYOA than a simulator. Even base TfD is more of a simulator. Maybe a poor one, but still...

...the only thing that indicates "You can have minions that help you in battle" is the UI tutorial thing.

'Squads' and 'Assign' buttons, the 'Minions' column in the lair, 'Bestiary' with combat stats... Indirect, perhaps, but far from being the only thing to draw your attention to it.

And nobody forces you to have minions. Unless you play on impossible, but that's a self-inflicted wound, then.

There's even a pride category that rewards you for going solo. People have been dominating normal difficulty with full squads as of late, so a solo dragon ought to be relatively viable with some care.

...their is a reason modern video games have tutorials.

Modern video games with tutorials have teams numbering in the dozens working full-time for months and years, not a hobbyist doing it on weekends for a few months. And need to make money and cater to children. You want tutorials and dragons, you play Dragon Commander, one of the dragon flight sims, or maybe Divinity 2. You need a 'dragon sex sim', you take what you can get.

More seriously, the quests serve as a tutorial, and Mom has a chat option that dispenses tips. There are several quests related to minions, in fact. If you just want to click buttons and not familiarize yourself with the game, an extended tutorial won't cure you. Players hate tutorials.

The game just isn't beating you on the nose with its tutorial and assumes you're an adult capable of RTFM when needed.

More over, as a Dragon sim, I am not sure what Dragon media you have that has them going into combat with minions.

It's traditional for dragons to go solo, but there are quite a few examples otherwise as well. Shadowrun. Malazan. Cradle series. Villentretenmerth from the Witcher. Archdemon from Dragon Age.

Most of these aren't exactly identical to TfD, but it's the same overall idea of 'let the squishy mortals do the stupid parts of combat.'

Dragons are usually good enough on their own. At least to beat a Peasent.

Not cat-sized dragons. And if you really want that not to be the case, you can play on easy or skip being tiny.

HOWEVER all that is being critical of the game as a "I am a Dragon hear me roar" sim

You can roar all you like unless you play on impossible or aren't cunning enough. A dragon who's only roar and no brains is called fertilizer.

Okay you are going to have to explain this, as I went through the intro, the UI guide and the gold head section and I see nothing that explains how this milking mechanic works or what it is.

There are two 'milkings'. What I referred to is the Witch milking the dragon. Not all difficulties give you gold from the start, so you need a leg up to acquire your first minion. Steel doesn't get that since it's good enough on its own.

You can also milk your captives, which is what helps you heal yourself and your minions.

But if you want to spend your satiation on Evolving instead of healing, you have to fiddle with Orders.

Healing takes comparatively little satiety. If you're struggling with that, you're probably still very small.

More to the problem is when you do a long sleep to heal as much as possible, and instead its to long and so you loose health overall.

Stock up before sleeping? It's the most basic gameplay loop in the whole game.

And if you fail, you don't die. You just wake up mad and hopefully learn your lesson about going to bed hungry.

That's somewhat frustrating Maths the player shouldn't need to deal with...

That's two-edged. You might also want to just check how long it will take to rest until healed, and that button allows you to let the game do the math for you. I remove that, you lose a precision tool in favour of handholding. Not a fan.

50 copper extra isn't a big loss for Steel.

The point isn't that it's expensive for steel to acquire minions. It's rather that pretty much all the other heads have options to do so, and once they do, the combat advantage of steel largely goes away. And steel will need a lot of downtime if it goes solo. Or gold and access to the Witch.

...cause a small village at mobilization 2 can seriously challenge a solo dragon on easy, so I can't imagine a Dragon with a team of goblins does well in that fight againest a Hard difficulty village.

A starter dragon + four goblins will struggle on hard, although you can probably savescum yourself to victory if you have a lot of patience. One with battle paws as his first evolution and four goblins will kill the two peasants at the cost of three goblins. Which is pretty cheap, compared to the gains.

Huntsmen says hi. And if killing people gets harder on harder difficulties like I think it does, running into a Huntsmen before you've grown in size at least once on Hard is probably very painful even with a team.

A single huntsman on hard is very much beatable by the same tiny+battle paws+four goblins team. It's actually easier than two mobs. A completely unevolved dragon will struggle, but he should be struggling.

...man has that huntsmen ruined some of my runs going at it solo.

You can always run from him. Unless you're really weak or wounded, he won't kill you outright.

...a way to skip the intro text would be nice. ...click through the same stuff again and again.

I take it you're new to Ren'Py? Hold down Ctrl. This is also mentioned in the 'help' section.

Oh and you may want to remove the text about the Smuggler's isle in the talking with the Dark Lady bit. As far as I can tell that tip isn't useful...

Maybe she's talking about a different island? The tip itself isn't useless as such.

Oh and is Growing Pains meant to auto complete as a quest even if you are the smallest sized Dragon still?

Yes. It's not about size, it's about evolving your power up from the absolute bottom.

Whats even worse is that a cat sized dragon would not fight an ogre, or a herd of cows, or an armored patrol no matter how frenzied he is.

A frenzied dragon very well might. Dragons are known for their inflated egos and arrogance, after all.

And cows might start looking mighty appetising...

Theres a difference between irrational behavior and straight up stupidity/suicidalness.

Being frenzied is a bit beyond mere irrationality.

Honestly I think the dragon we play as...

I think you could look at this as more managing the dragon and less playing as him.

...is an idiot and a huge disappointment to mother. There should always be an ignore option for truly overpowering opponents.

But the point of rage is that he's temporarily lost his marbles and is frothing at the jaws.

Or hell let us eat a goblin if things are that desperate.

Goblins aren't likely to just let themselves be eaten. In general, anyone who serves a dragon knows they might be put on the menu anytime, and accordingly avoids the critter when he's snorting mad. The captives don't have that luxury, though.

 

[zzczys]

new size option for all those who complain the game is too hard;

            "Bloody cheater (full-sized)":
                $ dragon.evo_complete('size_2')
                $ dragon.evo_complete('size_3')
                $ dragon.evo_complete('size_4')
                $ dragon.evo_complete('size_5')
                $ dragon.evo_complete('size_6')
                $ dragon.evo_complete('size_7')
                $ dragon.evo_complete('size_8')
                $ dragon.evo_complete('size_9')
                $ dragon.evo_complete('size_10')
                $ dragon.hp = dragon.maxhp
                $ dragon.lust = dragon.max_lust
                $ dragon.actions = dragon.max_actions
                $ dragon.satiety = int(max(50,dragon.max_satiety * 0.8))

 

[dicken]

is there a condition to get access to smuggler's isle? Whenever I travel there, the dragon just talks to himself about how the island so empty and leaves it to spy.
Also, I am wondering if I am playing the game wrong somehow. I am at a huge size now but still struggle to beat normal patrol with my goblin squad.
Another thing, the witch won't appear until reaching medium size.

 

[zzczys]

make the witch set up shop in the ruins
learn magic from the witch
the witch wants you to mate with the queen, get going
keep checking the island once a month
soon the queen and

Spoiler: if you have not guessed it

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

will open up the island

 

[zzczys]

Augh is there a way to capture both the mad elf and the good sister in the virus story? Tried many ways but still cant get both.

ah misread the special collection requirement.

 

[prehot]

Can you offer me some help JMan9.
I might be a bit stuck on progressing the quests. I cant seem to re enter the dwarven halls for a 2nd time. I raided them the first time with killing the inhabitants option and completed the quest for destroying the dwarven halls. However the stone hatchery option wasnt unlocked that time. Now the puny midgets are barricaded inside their caves and wont let me in to kill them again. Am i missing something to do or its just wait 4 more years till they "rebuild"? I tried to do the dwarf stronghold again for info on the secret entrance but after it would be the same deal cant enter.

Edit Well they rebuilt the halls guess i gotta kill their chump now. Seems weird you can do the quest without aquiring the hatchery plans.

Also when or how does the mad scientist event triggers. IIRC it was after you killed the king and had some infamy threshold passed but i sat on 350+ and it didnt triggered yet. Got the quest guess the infamy needed was 500+ .

On a side note would having the option to engage a fight with squad 1-x be a doable feature. Thinking since the encounters are random the player might have the option to engage with a more suitable composition. I guess it could get abused during the events when you can have up to x rested parties to fight the encounters so idk what you think of that.

Ill attach my save in case there is some hidden bug that didnt gave me the option for stone hatchery.

PS I hate how after last evolution i cannot seem to be able to rape anything under 27 hp since they die. That seem a pretty high threshold considering i still have 2 more sizes to go. Any chance you can look into that? Else doing the 1000 minion quest and going past size 7 wont go hand in hand. I know i can jai them and spank them once to mate with them after but y know it would be nicer to do it instantly after the battle .

 

[flamewolf393]

Is it possible to no-squad solo dragon the game? What build would you recommend for trying it? And im guessing if it is possible its probably only possible on easy?

So I have come to realize that sheep are by far the least common encounter when hunting farm animals, like only a 2% chance or so. I literally save scum for 5-10 days at at time just to get 1 sheep encounter. This seems kinda of insanely low? Why are ogres more common than damn sheep -_-'

Im also trying to save scum the thief into not having gear, and thats really pissing me off cause im having to reload almost every single day cause thief events are insanely common

 

[Jman9]

is there a condition to get access to smuggler's isle?

Yes, it's the longest single quest in the game. Read the thread if you need spoilers.

Also, I am wondering if I am playing the game wrong somehow. I am at a huge size now but still struggle to beat normal patrol with my goblin squad.

Probably. Huge dragons don't associate with goblins. Depends on what a 'normal' patrol is for you as well.

Another thing, the witch won't appear until reaching medium size.

She does, just not for every dragon.

Augh is there a way to capture both the mad elf and the good sister in the virus story?

No, the two are mutually exclusive.

Can you offer me some help JMan9.

I.. am... J...man! It's just that there are lots of imposters around and they stole my nick. The clones are up to nr 876789764 by last count.

Seems weird you can do the quest without aquiring the hatchery plans.

If you let the bigwigs escape and just vandalise the peons, they'll spoil your fun that way. Dwarves are evil, I tell ya! E-v-i-l!

Got the quest guess the infamy needed was 500+.

The trigger is 12 reputation level, actually. Which is currently at 550 infamy.

On a side note would having the option to engage a fight with squad 1-x be a doable feature.

I'm halfway convinced even one squad is one too many after Lumpus wasted three giants like it was Tuesday.

Ill attach my save in case there is some hidden bug that didnt gave me the option for stone hatchery.

No, you only get the hatchery if you fight the champion(s).

I hate how after last evolution i cannot seem to be able to rape anything under 27 hp since they die.

Pst.

Is it possible to no-squad solo dragon the game?

With crazy savescumming and below hard difficulty? Quite likely. With 'normal' reloading? No clue.

What build would you recommend for trying it?

Fear, maybe? Fear is deceptively useful in combat and lets you still do business while low on health.

And im guessing if it is possible its probably only possible on easy?

I'm pretty certain anything is possible on easy.

So I have come to realize that sheep are by far the least common encounter when hunting farm animals, like only a 2% chance or so.

You've probably eaten almost all the sheep already. Let the herds regrow a bit.

Why are ogres more common than damn sheep

You haven't eaten lots of them yet?

Im also trying to save scum the thief into not having gear, and thats really pissing me off cause im having to reload almost every single day cause thief events are insanely common

Shouldn't be, the 'I'm fucked' spiel ought to be the most common. But thieves accumulate their chances, so reloading won't delay the upgrades forever.

But yeah, you shouldn't sleep too often. Or thieves and knights will come and rob you blind.

 

[zzczys]

I tried to make a crude hunt lairs only function and it didnt work, it keeps calling from lair label instead... so I gave up.

Is there any renpy command to reload ymal files? Google directs to this thread lol.

 

[Jman9]

I tried to make a crude hunt lairs only function and it didnt work

Doing a crude function isn't hard. Doing a properly integrated one is.

Is there any renpy command to reload ymal files? Google directs to this thread lol.

There are several. The basic gateway is 'dict_from_config_file()'.

 

[zzczys]

ooh ok, same for the ini file? experimenting with changes in the location event ini.

 

[zzczys]

success?

 

[dicken]

is it literally impossible to play starting as a tiny dragon? I kept grinding but around halfway of small size, usually, I would get mucked by thief and knight. After that, I have no coin, no squad, no witch access, no isle access, 5 hp, and in frenzied! Any tips guys? >.<