Toxic Attraction DonSilver #Cuckold 8muses forum

[DarkStutzel]

What's Left Unsaid - Chapter 11
Novidade
Ontem
I was sitting outside my house for the second time in just a few hours. Afraid to go in. Not because of what I might walk in on this time… nothing I’m sure, since Ash’s car was gone. But Daisy’s car was still missing. Had she left with him? Was I coming home to an empty house? My wife finally having left me for someone who could satisfy her?
I pulled out my phone, thinking to track Daisy’s location, and remembered she’d texted me.
Daisy: My car wouldn’t start. Ash gave me a ride home. I called a tow truck. It’ll take the car to the shop.
Huh. It was a text that, up till two months ago, would have seemed normal. Now I was looking for hidden meaning.

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[DarkStutzel]

Unfortunately, there's no way for the story to stop now. You can give Lester and Sarah a break and develop other parts of the story. You can close the hospital arc (Lester getting revenge on everyone for Sarah), the good thing is that you don't need to keep focusing on sex. There's also Dan's arc with the possibilities: 1. We have Trisha being able to evolve in her attacks on Dan, everything they see happening is too much, for Dan to endure alone, there are consequences for everything Sarah and Lester put him through, 2. Dan's revenge is to look for the former tenant. We have a lot of things for fights between Dan and Sarah. When Dan goes to play video games with the girls and sees that his progress has been erased (Dan didn't evolve much in the game, because it was something he did with his daughters), Sarah complains and says he's a whiny little boy because of his game, with Lester playing with the children only talking badly about Dan, the children not liking it. While Dan travels and advances in his work, Lester fucks Sarah at night and when the kids are away, and when they are home, Lester makes small, despising remarks about the children. I think the story ends in chapter 50. Chapter 35 sees the argument and Dan considering divorce for the first time (his daughters weren't respected, and Sarah doesn't care about them). Any father would be worried about leaving his daughters around their mother, who is behaving like a slut, directly influencing their character development. Sarah has already forgotten her daughters to fuck Lester, she has fucked Lester with the kids at home, and she had sex in the kids' bed (these are warning signs any father would be alert to). In chapter 20... The receptionist led Dan to a corner office, where Jesse was sitting behind a wide desk, staring intently at something on his laptop screen. His eyes flashed at Dan, and a mischievous smile quickly spread across his face.

"Thank you, Trisha," he said, waving his wrist to dismiss the receptionist. "Dan, how are you? You look better than the last time I saw you."

Now would be the time for Trisha to ask Dan what happened, making him look so miserable, with a sad and worried look.

 

[chestofideas]

As a woman in an open marriage I must say the story has gone waaaay off the rails.

 

[Verisimilinude]

But...
You have overlooked a very important aspect, namely the fact that every time Dan (whether Lester is involved or when it's just the two of them) wants to express his displeasure and annoyance or intervene, Sarah stops him and dissuades him. (Mostly by using her feminine charms... smiling, gestures, innuendo, caresses or soothing actions).

I agree with you that at times she has been manipulative or had thoughts of dissuading Dan to make sure that he didn't stop her.

But she was also the responsible one in chapter 11:
Sarah looked up at him with gorgeous emerald eyes, “I’m afraid that if I start texting back, it’ll send him some kind of signal. It’s one thing to have things happen in the apartment, but this is starting to creep into other areas of our lives. And I didn’t want to add to your stress, so I thought that if I just ignored them, he would eventually stop on his own. That’s probably a naive attitude given what happened last time in Chicago but that’s what I was hoping for.”

Memories of the last night in Chicago crept into his mind, watching his wife and Lester together from the other side of the peephole, watching Lester experience his wife. Sarah’s eyes losing focus as she screamed in ecstasy.

“Maybe you should send him a picture back….” Dan said playfully.

Sarah leaned up on one elbow and looked at her husband, “Do you really think that’s a good idea? I feel like it would only make Lester more bold. Besides, we need to figure out what we’re doing here. When I drive back up with you to Chicago tomorrow, Lester will probably be expecting another of his dates. I don’t want him to think it’s just open season, and he can get away with whatever he wants.”

And for Chap 32: she wasn't shutting him down or using her feminine charms to deflect, she was trying to contain a messy situation. Asking Dan to not make it worse by confronting Lester in front of their daughters.

“My parents dropped them off before I could get Lester out. I had to hide him,” Sarah said, pulling her husband into the kitchen.

“And did you have to fuck him? He could have left anytime. We agreed not to do –”

Sarah held up a hand to silence him, and tears began to stream down her face, “I know! Okay, I know! It’s just….it’s just that things have so fucked up. I didn’t know what to do. I just, I don’t know, Dan, I just fucked up.”

Sarah held up a shaking finger to her lips. Thankfully, the sounds from the TV in the living room continued. Dan peeked his head out and saw both girls sitting on the couch watching the screen. Hopefully, they hadn’t heard his outburst. He went back to Sarah, and he motioned for her to join him in the kitchen, further away from their daughters.

What should have happened was for Dan to say his part to Sarah and for Sarah to say her part to Dan:
He didn’t know what to think. His emotions were raw, and everything felt heightened and in sharp focus. He knew, objectively, that Lester was bad for them. He pushed their boundaries and didn’t really give a shit at all about Dan or their marriage. He just wanted to fuck Sarah and rub it in his face. But that was exactly what turned Dan on so much about everything. Lester just pushed the right buttons that drove both he and Sarah crazy. Letting Lester take control of things in the bedroom was intoxicating. The lack of control, giving up the reins like that, drove Dan wild. Seeing Sarah give up her inhibitions fueled his lust.

But lately, things had gotten even crazier. His lack of control had slipped even further. Sarah going behind his back to do things was, objectively, hot as fuck, but it was still fucking dangerous. She had just gotten fired for it, for God’s sake. She was out of control too, and making really bad decisions. She’d fucked a janitor at work and had gotten fired for it. Could he trust her decision-making at all anymore?

“It’s just,” Sarah breathed, “Things are already pretty fucked up. I feel like I don’t even know which way is up anymore. Right now, I probably shouldn’t be making any big decisions. And that idea, god, it would be so bad. So fucking bad. I’d be so bad. I know we’d enjoy it. A lot, I’m sure. But I don’t want to hurt anyone. I already hurt you with what I did with Otis and Dan’s pissed off down there. I don’t know how he’d react. I don’t want to hurt my girls, Lester. I just…we just need to figure this out differently.”

“Anyways,” Sarah continued, “With Dan and the girls here, I don’t want to complicate things today. Dan and I have some things to figure out. And I don’t want to expose the girls to all of this. Is it okay if you head out soon? Back to your hotel?”

If the two of them would pull their heads out of their lust, and just had an adult conversation with each other, then things would be better, they'd realize what's going on and work together to fix things. But that's not what this story is about, it's not the tale that DS is writing.

 

[Verisimilinude]

Women do go for looks, I know that, it means they forgive you more and give more latitude, I am a gym rat, always played sport, and am a professional

I don't want to take away from your personal results, I'm glad they work for you. Most of the studies I've looked at it's a pretty even split between women preferring stability vs looks. The variance is usually what type of relationship they are looking for. This ofc is a gross oversimplification, as there are a lot of factors at play, but typically if a woman is having a fling she favors physical attractiveness, but long term relationships she values financial security/stability.

 

[Verisimilinude]

This is a good explanation and if I understood you correctly, my conclusion reads as follows (if I am wrong, correct it):
Love and respect is a state in which the happiness of a beloved partner becomes a necessary condition for your own happiness. All people and views on the same question are different and it is very valuable. For some, it may sound like a compromise, for another ultimatum. But the line between compromise and ultimatum is quite thin, despite the fact that the consequences in both cases can be unpredictable.

I wouldn't use the word necessary as that's an absolutism. I would say that because you love and respect someone you are more willing to compromise and make sacrifices, because you know those traits will help make the marriage flow more smoothly and it would increase that spouses happiness. In the States we have a saying: Happy Wife. Happy Life, but really it applies to both spouses.

 

[Verisimilinude]

Thank you. Glad someone finally stepped up and said it. Ethical non-monogamy and cheating are not the same thing. At all.

Welcome to the mayhem. I'm curious why did you pull your other post? I thought it was a well articulated viewpoint.

 

[ABinWP]

Welcome to the mayhem. I'm curious why did you pull your other post? I thought it was a well articulated viewpoint.

Thank you, and thank you.

It's still there. #3718.

 

[Verisimilinude]

As a woman in an open marriage I must say the story has gone waaaay off the rails.

If you'd care to share, I'd love to hear your opinion of where it went off the rails. Like where did you stop and say, nope, that crossed a line you shouldn't in an open marriage lifestyle?

 

[Verisimilinude]

Thank you, and thank you.

It's still there. #3718.

Yeah I saw that it reappeared (for me I guess) right after I asked the question

 

[Verisimilinude]

I sympathize with your argument because it hits the nail on the head.

In my opinion, addressing the “moral aspect” in erotic and sex stories is irrational and immoral,

But what the author DS has done is no longer acceptable (even in fantasies).

I'm curious about two of your points, bc I don't understand them:
Why is it immoral (not conforming with moral law) to discuss the moral aspect in a story? I feel like I'm not grasping your intended viewpoint on this one.

And do you mean that it's no longer acceptable for you, or in general? I mean it's DS's story, it's certainly acceptable for him to write the story he wants to tell. Whether we want to read it or not is a different kettle of fish.

 

[ABinWP]

If you'd care to share, I'd love to hear your opinion of where it went off the rails. Like where did you stop and say, nope, that crossed a line you shouldn't in an open marriage lifestyle?

I know this message wasn't directed at me, but hope it's OK if I respond anyway.

Some quick background: In full transparency, I am in an open ENM relationship (7 happy years and counting), though most of our non-monogamy comes in the form of group activity together, rather than one of us using a 'hall pass' to go out single and enjoy. We both have full freedom to do that (and have), but we don't often do so, as we really enjoy the shared experience.

As for the story, the couple went off the rails almost right off the bat. I'm doing this on a work break, so don't have time to pin down the exact chapter(s), but in short: They didn't have clear enough and/or mutually understood boundaries set, Sarah repeatedly broke the boundaries they did set, they didn't respect each other's hesitancy/nervousness/equivocation after upticks in early playtime, and (biggie here) they tolerated disrespect from someone outside of their relationship. And that was all relatively early on. Now? They're not even remotely on the same page. A fully separate relationship has been created, and even nutured.

At a basic level though, where they failed is that when life got difficult, they didn't stop their play evolution and wrap their arms around each other (figuratively), and re-commit themselves to their marriage and their family. When Dan had to move to another city, when Dan's job got tough, when Sarah lost her job, the finances, etc. One could make the case that the third paragraph of the entire story was about their life becoming difficult, and they never should have embarked upon this adventure in the first place, for reasons that had nothing to do with sex. First sentence of the third paragraph: "Like most American families, the economic downturn hit the Williams hard."

Back to the personal for a moment: This ENM ride has been one of the greatest adventures of our lives. But my SO and I have certainly taken breaks when life got difficult, and we also try and keep it simple. We do have naked preferences for sure, but as for the big stuff, we have but a few simple guidelines about all of this with each other, and with those with whom we engage:

For us:
- Full transparency with each other at all times.
- If either partner is uncomfortable, play stops immediately. Either partner has full veto power at any time.

For others:
- Show up when and where you said you would.
- Be a decent human being for the entirely of our encounter. No disrespect will be tolerated.

We know people who have far, far more rules than those. But even if Sarah and Dan had those same simple rules in place, they would have broken all of them multiple times.

 

[DarkStutzel]

The situation is very delicate for the couple (Sarah and Lester). They can't stop with Lester because of the financial dependence. Lester wants to take Sarah from Dan, as Dan is physically more handsome and strong, tall and athletic. This arouses Lester's anger and envy, so he wants to destroy Dan. When the man is financially broke, it's over. Sarah's mother also says he leaves Sarah very alone. I don't know what couple this is that doesn't talk regularly. Lester is already Sarah's man, always there when she needs him, has time for her, has money (he can earn high amounts with his work, something Dan can't achieve), but he doesn't have the looks; she still doesn't know that she doesn't love her daughters. The next step is for Sarah to deny her husband of her own free will; only Dan and Lester know that she is unemployed (the way she was caught is a positive point for Dan to get custody). I hope Lester gets Sarah pregnant, but the girl will be completely like her father). And Dan and Trisha will have a boy...

 

[chestofideas]

If you'd care to share, I'd love to hear your opinion of where it went off the rails. Like where did you stop and say, nope, that crossed a line you shouldn't in an open marriage lifestyle?

In my experience the boundaries are forced at times, there is the feeling of.... walking on the edge, the risk... both emotional and practical. But you don't jump, if you do you don't climb back up. It is impossible.

It was not one particular event that made me feel it doesn't work as a story but how the author completely ignored that for the marriage to last Dan would have to pick the pieces of an emotionally broken Sarah. The dynamic of the husband being constantly undermined, humiliated, without the pause to work on the relationship is unbelievable. There is no marriage anymore, and if there is no marriage there is not even the thrill of being taken by another.

It doesn't work, it feels bland. Empty people just having sex, like animals.

 

[IdiotPedro1]

I long ago burned out on this story, but it has never been remotely realistic about anything. None of the set-up makes sense, none of the characters' actions reflects anything real people would do, so of course their relationship dynamic hasn't reflected anything that would work in real life. In real life, Lester saw a photo of Sarah online, became obsessed with her, and imagined the rest.

 

[ABinWP]

I long ago burned out on this story, but it has never been remotely realistic about anything. None of the set-up makes sense, none of the characters' actions reflects anything real people would do,

Respectfully, I don't agree with that.

At this point in chapter 30something, sure - Sarah's demeanor and decisions in particular are not remotely realistic. That said, the beginning of the story had wholly plausible scenarios as Dan and Sarah began exploring their sexuality.

I totally get the kink of sharing one's spouse, totally get the kink of more than 2 people having sex together, and totally get the kink of having sex in front of other people. Lots of real people live those experiences.

 

[IdiotPedro1]

Just the basic starting scenario is ridiculous. Lester, a completely misanthrope, rents out a room but then turns out to have a lot of money. Dan is an skilled executive married to an upper level healthcare administrator and decides he needs to rent a room instead of getting one of those furnished apartments. In a story set when the economy is doing very well, especially for people in healthcare administration. They always prioritize sex over their children and rarely think of them. Lester single handed takes down the hospital and then, with no paper qualifications, is hired to protect them from hackers because he says he can do it. Multiple plot points hinge on Dan having no protection on his phone. He's a parent—he has a password set! Not to mention that Sarah can't ever say no to the sight of Lester's dick, no matter how angry she is with him. Over and over again, the story is goofy.

TA is like a Marvel movie. Some of it reflects real human emotions, but it's a fantasy with little grounding in reality.

 

[bluepixiegurl316]

I say again...

Daughter's bed, fuckers dead. Now way, no how.

 

[Oresttitos]

I wouldn't use the word necessary as that's an absolutism. I would say that because you love and respect someone you are more willing to compromise and make sacrifices, because you know those traits will help make the marriage flow more smoothly and it would increase that spouses happiness. In the States we have a saying: Happy Wife. Happy Life, but really it applies to both spouses.

I'm not remotely interested in storytelling as a method for creating an archetypal hero character that readers can put themselves in, so that they can fly around in their awesomepants for a while. Comic books do that kind of thing well. So do movies and, I imagine, video games. Stories exist to explore characters, or ideas, or emotional journeys. The purpose of these journeys isn't to give you the ending you would want for yourself, but to examine on a very human level what personal experience is like in any number of situations, to any number of people.

 

[Verisimilinude]

I know this message wasn't directed at me, but hope it's OK if I respond anyway.

Some quick background: In full transparency, I am in an open ENM relationship (7 happy years and counting), though most of our non-monogamy comes in the form of group activity together, rather than one of us using a 'hall pass' to go out single and enjoy. We both have full freedom to do that (and have), but we don't often do so, as we really enjoy the shared experience.

As for the story, the couple went off the rails almost right off the bat. I'm doing this on a work break, so don't have time to pin down the exact chapter(s), but in short: They didn't have clear enough and/or mutually understood boundaries set, Sarah repeatedly broke the boundaries they did set, they didn't respect each other's hesitancy/nervousness/equivocation after upticks in early playtime, and (biggie here) they tolerated disrespect from someone outside of their relationship. And that was all relatively early on. Now? They're not even remotely on the same page. A fully separate relationship has been created, and even nutured.

At a basic level though, where they failed is that when life got difficult, they didn't stop their play evolution and wrap their arms around each other (figuratively), and re-commit themselves to their marriage and their family. When Dan had to move to another city, when Dan's job got tough, when Sarah lost her job, the finances, etc. One could make the case that the third paragraph of the entire story was about their life becoming difficult, and they never should have embarked upon this adventure in the first place, for reasons that had nothing to do with sex. First sentence of the third paragraph: "Like most American families, the economic downturn hit the Williams hard."

Back to the personal for a moment: This ENM ride has been one of the greatest adventures of our lives. But my SO and I have certainly taken breaks when life got difficult, and we also try and keep it simple. We do have naked preferences for sure, but as for the big stuff, we have but a few simple guidelines about all of this with each other, and with those with whom we engage:

For us:
- Full transparency with each other at all times.
- If either partner is uncomfortable, play stops immediately. Either partner has full veto power at any time.

For others:
- Show up when and where you said you would.
- Be a decent human being for the entirely of our encounter. No disrespect will be tolerated.

We know people who have far, far more rules than those. But even if Sarah and Dan had those same simple rules in place, they would have broken all of them multiple times.

Overall I agree with your message. The marriage lacked verbal communication. Two people were incited by an opportunity for adventure. And in their quest to actualize that adventure, they forgot to communicate, plan, and have an exit strategy.

A couple of distinctions from my POV:
they didn't respect each other's hesitancy/nervousness/equivocation after upticks in early playtime
My argument (especially in the beginning) is it wasn't a lack of respect and more a lack of understanding coupled with lack of communication. The loss of respect came later with reinforced manipulation and coercion. Dan often monologues about how he doesn't understand why he feels the way he does, and Sarah mistakenly sees this as acceptance and license to push boundaries. Yet as you've eloquently stated, they didn't take time to discuss and debrief their individual experiences.

they tolerated disrespect from someone outside of their relationship
You would agree that everyone is different, yes? And despite some core member's thoughts on humiliation, etc., there are people in the world who do derive sexual gratification from experiencing this kink. It's not my cup of tea, but I can objectively support someone who does enjoy it (as long as it's consensual).

Appreciate the insight from someone who has "lived" the lifestyle.