Toxic Attraction DonSilver #Cuckold 8muses forum

[DarkStutzel]

The situation is very delicate for the couple (Sarah and Lester). They can't stop with Lester because of the financial dependence. Lester wants to take Sarah from Dan, as Dan is physically more handsome and strong, tall and athletic. This arouses Lester's anger and envy, so he wants to destroy Dan. When the man is financially broke, it's over. Sarah's mother also says he leaves Sarah very alone. I don't know what couple this is that doesn't talk regularly. Lester is already Sarah's man, always there when she needs him, has time for her, has money (he can earn high amounts with his work, something Dan can't achieve), but he doesn't have the looks; she still doesn't know that she doesn't love her daughters. The next step is for Sarah to deny her husband of her own free will; only Dan and Lester know that she is unemployed (the way she was caught is a positive point for Dan to get custody). I hope Lester gets Sarah pregnant, but the girl will be completely like her father). And Dan and Trisha will have a boy...

 

[chestofideas]

If you'd care to share, I'd love to hear your opinion of where it went off the rails. Like where did you stop and say, nope, that crossed a line you shouldn't in an open marriage lifestyle?

In my experience the boundaries are forced at times, there is the feeling of.... walking on the edge, the risk... both emotional and practical. But you don't jump, if you do you don't climb back up. It is impossible.

It was not one particular event that made me feel it doesn't work as a story but how the author completely ignored that for the marriage to last Dan would have to pick the pieces of an emotionally broken Sarah. The dynamic of the husband being constantly undermined, humiliated, without the pause to work on the relationship is unbelievable. There is no marriage anymore, and if there is no marriage there is not even the thrill of being taken by another.

It doesn't work, it feels bland. Empty people just having sex, like animals.

 

[IdiotPedro1]

I long ago burned out on this story, but it has never been remotely realistic about anything. None of the set-up makes sense, none of the characters' actions reflects anything real people would do, so of course their relationship dynamic hasn't reflected anything that would work in real life. In real life, Lester saw a photo of Sarah online, became obsessed with her, and imagined the rest.

 

[ABinWP]

I long ago burned out on this story, but it has never been remotely realistic about anything. None of the set-up makes sense, none of the characters' actions reflects anything real people would do,

Respectfully, I don't agree with that.

At this point in chapter 30something, sure - Sarah's demeanor and decisions in particular are not remotely realistic. That said, the beginning of the story had wholly plausible scenarios as Dan and Sarah began exploring their sexuality.

I totally get the kink of sharing one's spouse, totally get the kink of more than 2 people having sex together, and totally get the kink of having sex in front of other people. Lots of real people live those experiences.

 

[IdiotPedro1]

Just the basic starting scenario is ridiculous. Lester, a completely misanthrope, rents out a room but then turns out to have a lot of money. Dan is an skilled executive married to an upper level healthcare administrator and decides he needs to rent a room instead of getting one of those furnished apartments. In a story set when the economy is doing very well, especially for people in healthcare administration. They always prioritize sex over their children and rarely think of them. Lester single handed takes down the hospital and then, with no paper qualifications, is hired to protect them from hackers because he says he can do it. Multiple plot points hinge on Dan having no protection on his phone. He's a parent—he has a password set! Not to mention that Sarah can't ever say no to the sight of Lester's dick, no matter how angry she is with him. Over and over again, the story is goofy.

TA is like a Marvel movie. Some of it reflects real human emotions, but it's a fantasy with little grounding in reality.

 

[bluepixiegurl316]

I say again...

Daughter's bed, fuckers dead. Now way, no how.

 

[Oresttitos]

I wouldn't use the word necessary as that's an absolutism. I would say that because you love and respect someone you are more willing to compromise and make sacrifices, because you know those traits will help make the marriage flow more smoothly and it would increase that spouses happiness. In the States we have a saying: Happy Wife. Happy Life, but really it applies to both spouses.

I'm not remotely interested in storytelling as a method for creating an archetypal hero character that readers can put themselves in, so that they can fly around in their awesomepants for a while. Comic books do that kind of thing well. So do movies and, I imagine, video games. Stories exist to explore characters, or ideas, or emotional journeys. The purpose of these journeys isn't to give you the ending you would want for yourself, but to examine on a very human level what personal experience is like in any number of situations, to any number of people.

 

[Verisimilinude]

I know this message wasn't directed at me, but hope it's OK if I respond anyway.

Some quick background: In full transparency, I am in an open ENM relationship (7 happy years and counting), though most of our non-monogamy comes in the form of group activity together, rather than one of us using a 'hall pass' to go out single and enjoy. We both have full freedom to do that (and have), but we don't often do so, as we really enjoy the shared experience.

As for the story, the couple went off the rails almost right off the bat. I'm doing this on a work break, so don't have time to pin down the exact chapter(s), but in short: They didn't have clear enough and/or mutually understood boundaries set, Sarah repeatedly broke the boundaries they did set, they didn't respect each other's hesitancy/nervousness/equivocation after upticks in early playtime, and (biggie here) they tolerated disrespect from someone outside of their relationship. And that was all relatively early on. Now? They're not even remotely on the same page. A fully separate relationship has been created, and even nutured.

At a basic level though, where they failed is that when life got difficult, they didn't stop their play evolution and wrap their arms around each other (figuratively), and re-commit themselves to their marriage and their family. When Dan had to move to another city, when Dan's job got tough, when Sarah lost her job, the finances, etc. One could make the case that the third paragraph of the entire story was about their life becoming difficult, and they never should have embarked upon this adventure in the first place, for reasons that had nothing to do with sex. First sentence of the third paragraph: "Like most American families, the economic downturn hit the Williams hard."

Back to the personal for a moment: This ENM ride has been one of the greatest adventures of our lives. But my SO and I have certainly taken breaks when life got difficult, and we also try and keep it simple. We do have naked preferences for sure, but as for the big stuff, we have but a few simple guidelines about all of this with each other, and with those with whom we engage:

For us:
- Full transparency with each other at all times.
- If either partner is uncomfortable, play stops immediately. Either partner has full veto power at any time.

For others:
- Show up when and where you said you would.
- Be a decent human being for the entirely of our encounter. No disrespect will be tolerated.

We know people who have far, far more rules than those. But even if Sarah and Dan had those same simple rules in place, they would have broken all of them multiple times.

Overall I agree with your message. The marriage lacked verbal communication. Two people were incited by an opportunity for adventure. And in their quest to actualize that adventure, they forgot to communicate, plan, and have an exit strategy.

A couple of distinctions from my POV:
they didn't respect each other's hesitancy/nervousness/equivocation after upticks in early playtime
My argument (especially in the beginning) is it wasn't a lack of respect and more a lack of understanding coupled with lack of communication. The loss of respect came later with reinforced manipulation and coercion. Dan often monologues about how he doesn't understand why he feels the way he does, and Sarah mistakenly sees this as acceptance and license to push boundaries. Yet as you've eloquently stated, they didn't take time to discuss and debrief their individual experiences.

they tolerated disrespect from someone outside of their relationship
You would agree that everyone is different, yes? And despite some core member's thoughts on humiliation, etc., there are people in the world who do derive sexual gratification from experiencing this kink. It's not my cup of tea, but I can objectively support someone who does enjoy it (as long as it's consensual).

Appreciate the insight from someone who has "lived" the lifestyle.

 

[Verisimilinude]

I'm not remotely interested in storytelling as a method for creating an archetypal hero character that readers can put themselves in, so that they can fly around in their awesomepants for a while. Comic books do that kind of thing well. So do movies and, I imagine, video games. Stories exist to explore characters, or ideas, or emotional journeys. The purpose of these journeys isn't to give you the ending you would want for yourself, but to examine on a very human level what personal experience is like in any number of situations, to any number of people.

Umh??? Did you mean to respond to someone else's post?

 

[Verisimilinude]

Just the basic starting scenario is ridiculous. Lester, a completely misanthrope, rents out a room but then turns out to have a lot of money. Dan is an skilled executive married to an upper level healthcare administrator and decides he needs to rent a room instead of getting one of those furnished apartments. In a story set when the economy is doing very well, especially for people in healthcare administration. They always prioritize sex over their children and rarely think of them. Lester single handed takes down the hospital and then, with no paper qualifications, is hired to protect them from hackers because he says he can do it. Multiple plot points hinge on Dan having no protection on his phone. He's a parent—he has a password set! Not to mention that Sarah can't ever say no to the sight of Lester's dick, no matter how angry she is with him. Over and over again, the story is goofy.

With respect, have you actually read the story?

1) Lester isn't a misanthrope. An introverted narcissistic asshole, absolutely. If he hated humankind he wouldn't want to have contact with women much less have sex with them.
2) Lots of people with antisocial traits have money
3) Dan isn't an executive, the story depicts him as a senior mid-level manager. Sarah is closer to an executive level position but without the title or pay.
4) (I'm going to lump a few of your other points into one here) He was laid off, and spent months in his home town trying to find work, unsuccessfully. The economy wasn't doing well, hence why he got laid off. He felt being located in Chicago would provide better opportunities. Not having the funds to splurge on a furnished apartment, he did what a lot of people IRL do, they find a roommate to cut down on the costs.
5) Agreed, on three occasions I can remember they prioritized sex over thinking about their children. I would argue this is an artistic choice to limit crossing boundaries most reader's of erotica don't want crossed and leave it at that.
6) Yes Lester used his networking skills, (documented as foundation in the early chapters) to manipulate a hospital employee into giving him access to the hospital network. He didn't need paper qualifications, he was recommended by a respected hospital admin (Sarah) and demo'ed his ability by fixing one of their systems prior to being awarded the contract.
7) Incorrect there was only one plot point that hinged on Dan not having a password on his phone (though I do agree with you in principle that most tech savvy people would have at a minimum a password pin on their phone).
8) This one is more subjective but there is such a thing as sexual addiction and when paired with psychological conditioning it is plausible for Sarah to have a conditioned response to seeing Lester's dick.

I respect and support your desire to say the story is goofy, but to say it isn't grounded in realism, that's a disingenuous statement.

 

[Verisimilinude]

how the author completely ignored that for the marriage to last Dan would have to pick the pieces of an emotionally broken Sarah.

But isn't this making an assumption that DS wants the marriage to last? Is it possible that he wanted to explore what happens to a marriage that has been ravaged by reckless spouses, and the aftermath of that destruction? Personally I've always viewed this story as a cautionary tale of everything that can go wrong in a marriage when you decide to blindly enter into a "sharing lifestyle." Until the final words are written, none of us can know for sure, what his intention is/was. But I feel confident in saying, based on how the story has progressed, that he ever intended this to be a trad loving sharing story.

Having said that, I do appreciate your pov on what a positive sharing lifestyle could/should be. I think its vital that opposing views are presented, for me at least, that's how I learn and grow.

 

[Davidsays1]

With respect, have you actually read the story?

1) Lester isn't a misanthrope. An introverted narcissistic asshole, absolutely. If he hated humankind he wouldn't want to have contact with women much less have sex with them.
2) Lots of people with antisocial traits have money
3) Dan isn't an executive, the story depicts him as a senior mid-level manager. Sarah is closer to an executive level position but without the title or pay.
4) (I'm going to lump a few of your other points into one here) He was laid off, and spent months in his home town trying to find work, unsuccessfully. The economy wasn't doing well, hence why he got laid off. He felt being located in Chicago would provide better opportunities. Not having the funds to splurge on a furnished apartment, he did what a lot of people IRL do, they find a roommate to cut down on the costs.
5) Agreed, on three occasions I can remember they prioritized sex over thinking about their children. I would argue this is an artistic choice to limit crossing boundaries most reader's of erotica don't want crossed and leave it at that.
6) Yes Lester used his networking skills, (documented as foundation in the early chapters) to manipulate a hospital employee into giving him access to the hospital network. He didn't need paper qualifications, he was recommended by a respected hospital admin (Sarah) and demo'ed his ability by fixing one of their systems prior to being awarded the contract.
7) Incorrect there was only one plot point that hinged on Dan not having a password on his phone (though I do agree with you in principle that most tech savvy people would have at a minimum a password pin on their phone).
8) This one is more subjective but there is such a thing as sexual addiction and when paired with psychological conditioning it is plausible for Sarah to have a conditioned response to seeing Lester's dick.

I respect and support your desire to say the story is goofy, but to say it isn't grounded in realism, that's a disingenuous statement.

I think Dan actually found a job in Chicago which is how we ended up where we are now, but Lester of course cost him the job or the job fell through I can't recall without re-reading. I also like how we ended up here when originally I think Dan and Sarah were going to save money, and sell the house so Sarah and the kids could move to Chicago to be with Dan.

 

[ABinWP]

A couple of distinctions from my POV:
they didn't respect each other's hesitancy/nervousness/equivocation after upticks in early playtime
My argument (especially in the beginning) is it wasn't a lack of respect and more a lack of understanding coupled with lack of communication. The loss of respect came later with reinforced manipulation and coercion. Dan often monologues about how he doesn't understand why he feels the way he does, and Sarah mistakenly sees this as acceptance and license to push boundaries. Yet as you've eloquently stated, they didn't take time to discuss and debrief their individual experiences.

I see your point and agree, particularly about the lack of understanding (in my experience, this is relatively common with couples getting into this scene). Though it seemed to me that both characters at times just pushed through their spouse's hesitation and kept going - like almost brushing the other one aside maybe? Whether or not these were intentional, it does represent places where they went off the rails, IMO.

they tolerated disrespect from someone outside of their relationship
You would agree that everyone is different, yes?

Oh, very much so, yes. And I also believe that everyone is entitled to live out whatever kink they wish, as long as it's done with and alongside other consenting adults.

And despite some core member's thoughts on humiliation, etc., there are people in the world who do derive sexual gratification from experiencing this kink. It's not my cup of tea, but I can objectively support someone who does enjoy it (as long as it's consensual).

Appreciate the insight from someone who has "lived" the lifestyle.

Here's where I believe there is some nuance. I personally don't get off on the cuckold/humiliation thing, but I get that some people do (I personally know a couple that does this - we don't play with them). But I would put forth for your consideration, that there is a difference between cuck-type sexual humiliation in the moment, and outright disrespect.

Lester telling Dan that he can fuck Sarah better than Dan can, telling Dan his johnson is much larger, telling Dan she loves his cock so much more - all while he's plowing Sarah...well, OK. Fine. Not my kink personally, but I understand the kink exists, and that some people dig that. You do you, all good with me. That doesn't necessarily describe where it went off the rails, or where disrespect was played out.

However, locking Dan out of the bedroom, giving Dan the wrong room key/number at the hotel, inviting a 3rd into the situation (in that same hotel room) to fuck Sarah without either of them knowing - this is blatant disrespect. In fact, I believe these situations not only represent disrespect, I believe they are dangerous.

 

[DarkStutzel]

You must be registered to see the links

 

[powerconti]

I say again...

Daughter's bed, fuckers dead. Now way, no how.

Now, at the latest, after the defilement and contamination of the children's room by the ‘cock-driven, wanton slut’ Sarah and the ‘perverted dirty pig’ Lester, Dan should show some reaction.
This should consist of summoning the son of a bitch Lester to his home, properly castrating him, polishing his face so that he no longer knows whether he is male or female, kicking him in the arse and throwing him out of the house.
(Of course, this will only be the case if the author, Mister DS, does not continue to restrict him in his actions and function in order to erase his individuality and break his will.)
And if his ‘slut of a wife’, Sarah, makes any move to protect that filthy bastard Lester, he should kick her out too, because she has long deserved to be held accountable.

Where the CHILDEREN are concerned, all fun, reason and patience cease, because their protection and well-being come first.
Time for ‘Death Wish’ à la Charles Bronson!

-- PC

 

[john_doe6711]

I can't get the reason why they had to do in the children's room...being cock drunk or not she should have drawn the line at that...clearly she doesn't respect dan or her kids...and what's going on with the former tenant she has completely disappeared from the story...dan was trying and think successfully tracked her down..now nothing about that...I read somewhere someone saying we may have 50 chapters before seeing this story wrapped up...then after waiting for so long only to have an ass ending with questions unanswered or people paying for a spin off or an epilogue...I like this story alot and want to see how it ends but there are too many variables missing right now ...(I know it's a story but when is dan going to finally say enough is enough)..

 

[Davidsays1]

I don't think the former tenant leads anywhere, if anything it will lead to her falling back under lesters thumb, she is married if that's still a thing, and all she can do is tell Dan what he already knows Lester video tapes things etc. if im right she only fully slept with Lester the 1 time and that was it.

 

[King_Gonta]

I don't want to take away from your personal results, I'm glad they work for you. Most of the studies I've looked at it's a pretty even split between women preferring stability vs looks. The variance is usually what type of relationship they are looking for. This ofc is a gross oversimplification, as there are a lot of factors at play, but typically if a woman is having a fling she favors physical attractiveness, but long term relationships she values financial security/stability.

You are absolutely right

Absolutely

 

[King_Gonta]

I can't get the reason why they had to do in the children's room...being cock drunk or not she should have drawn the line at that...clearly she doesn't respect dan or her kids...and what's going on with the former tenant she has completely disappeared from the story...dan was trying and think successfully tracked her down..now nothing about that...I read somewhere someone saying we may have 50 chapters before seeing this story wrapped up...then after waiting for so long only to have an ass ending with questions unanswered or people paying for a spin off or an epilogue...I like this story alot and want to see how it ends but there are too many variables missing right now ...(I know it's a story but when is dan going to finally say enough is enough)..

It's a room . She doing it inside their home which they live was the start of it

It should have never happened in first place

 

[DarkStutzel]

And a suggestion of mine that in more than 16 chapters to finish the series, Don didn't say anything officially. Something very important to remember is the total financial dependence the couple has on Lester. Sarah was the one paying the household bills (that's why she lost her job was the end), even if they sold the house they wouldn't be able to get a smaller one (to maintain a good and expensive standard of living). Dan already has a police record, he has used violence against other people (him going to prison won't help anything).