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Crimsonfiend76

Herald - Super Naked Ginger Cuddle Time
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Sep 8, 2020
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I agree that he is a maladjusted prick who needs roughly all of the therapy but I also hate to admit that I've seen worse. I cannot stand the dickhead protagonist of Summer's Gone. He will let a woman bleed out in the street because his childhood crush got bit by a spider and ever since he doesn't care about humans. I painfully grind my teeth when I play many of the VNs that focus on corruption like Sugar Baby Galore. That guy is a jerk even on the guidance path. I love Ataegina but that sorcerer is a toolbag no matter how you play him. Now I do sympathize that the mutually exclusive moral rectitude, self-righteousness, and excessive licentiousness of this particular protagonist are galling to any reasonable person, but take... umm... comfort? Yes comfort that is can always get worse.
I totally agree. While I can understand and on a certain level sympathize with his anger at Deb's and his family's betrayal by omission, as in not trusting in him to explain his roots/family traditions, along with why certain actions were done while he was left to toil in agony, it does seem silly he has no problem denying his daughter the same kind of bonding/intimacy he previously had with his own sister.

It's one thing to carry a grudge over those who conspired against him, but Milly is an innocent victim in that regard, and not a child. She is fully capable of making her own choices, if she's able to forgive him and her family, he really should try as well...at least the forgiveness part, no one is asking him to forget. That said hopefully there is some sort of intervention/sit down with his extended family where everything can finally be said and all their secrets finally revealed so everyone can at least try to move on.
 

WastedTalent

Active Member
Dec 11, 2020
963
1,534
The MC in this game/novel is an intolerable git. I've not encountered an MC so selfish or so arrogant and cruel in any of the hundreds of novels I've read. And his double moral standard is equally insufferable. Having said that... I still read through until the end of the available play... but I gritted my teeth and put it down too many times through the read. IMHO, MCs have to be likeable if they're going to be successful at building a harem. And this makes this guy's harem unbelievable. Sorry... not sorry.
On the flip side don't the female characters also have to be likable? I'm sorry but Dev/Deb and the Mom are anything but likable. I find both of them to be at fault for Marie being dead. I mean after all if it wasn't for what they did Marie may not have been mixed up in this whole thing to begin with and nowhere in the story has any of this been addressed? But the Deb/Dev has their own narrative.
 

UncleFredo

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2020
1,940
3,670
On the flip side don't the female characters also have to be likable? I'm sorry but Dev/Deb and the Mom are anything but likable. I find both of them to be at fault for Marie being dead. I mean after all if it wasn't for what they did Marie may not have been mixed up in this whole thing to begin with and nowhere in the story has any of this been addressed? But the Deb/Dev has their own narrative.
Opinions vary. I like Deb just fine. Of course I as you benefit from knowledge about how deeply she actually cares for the MC. Consider how the story opened. Marie and her husband on their yacht and then... Hard to blame Deb for that, at least individually.
 

WastedTalent

Active Member
Dec 11, 2020
963
1,534
Opinions vary. I like Deb just fine. Of course I as you benefit from knowledge about how deeply she actually cares for the MC. Consider how the story opened. Marie and her husband on their yacht and then... Hard to blame Deb for that, at least individually.
No but Deb lied for all these years and the Mom helped arrange the marriage between Marie and the Senator or whatever he was. Therefore they are at fault for her being dead. But as the Mom said she regrets nothing because her son is alive. So she didn't care who else got hurt by her actions as long as the MC is alive. MC says he still loves his dead x-wife blah blah blah but as I said nowhere is it addressed that because of Mom mostly and Deb's actions/deceit is why she was killed. Sorry but if my family lied to me like this and as a result got my ex wife killed I wouldn't be forgiving at all. I know Marie chose to go along with it but had it not been for Mom and her lies/manipulations none of this would have been possible. It's a given Marie didn't have the connections or resources to disappear so with Deb's help they reached out to MC's mom and Dad to make all this happen. So Dad did the dirty work but Mom was the puppet master behind all this and Deb went with it because she believed with Marie out of the picture she could have MC all to herself. So their actions were self serving and with only 1 purpose without concern for collateral damage and the only one who has even attempted to make things better is Deb however how can this be better? I speak from experience the love of my life is Dead and I promise you there is no making it better.
 
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Canto Forte

Post Pro
Jul 10, 2017
21,624
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The point of the game is ... women grab other women by the pussy and get away with it.
MC is a recluse, fanatic health nut, in a house where his ma is overtly sex innuendo his pa,
his sister brags about being stuffed in the ass by this or that guy,
while MC true life is him being friendzoned by girls marrying some other guys.

During the heart to heart in Millie”s room, MC is revealed to be mind gamed into a boyscout,
most by his pa whom he loved and wanted to make proud, to the extent he had no gf,
he was fooling around with deb who also has no body no chops no game, but assertive girls
seem to get away in this game, like the molestor in the room at the club,
taking MC”s hand outta his GF”s pussy to lick his fingers.

To which MC does absolutely nothing to a molesting female bully wrecking the whole evening for his GF.

That speaks volumes how hindered are MC”s social skills, how him standing up to rape got him in the brig.

MC is fumbling through all these girls trying to not hurt them and giving himself so they will not push him away.
 

NewTricks

Forum Fanatic
Nov 1, 2017
4,660
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The point of the game is ... women grab other women by the pussy and get away with it.
MC is a recluse, fanatic health nut, in a house where his ma is overtly sex innuendo his pa,
his sister brags about being stuffed in the ass by this or that guy,
while MC true life is him being friendzoned by girls marrying some other guys.

During the heart to heart in Millie”s room, MC is revealed to be mind gamed into a boyscout,
most by his pa whom he loved and wanted to make proud, to the extent he had no gf,
he was fooling around with deb who also has no body no chops no game, but assertive girls
seem to get away in this game, like the molestor in the room at the club,
taking MC”s hand outta his GF”s pussy to lick his fingers.

To which MC does absolutely nothing to a molesting female bully wrecking the whole evening for his GF.

That speaks volumes how hindered are MC”s social skills, how him standing up to rape got him in the brig.

MC is fumbling through all these girls trying to not hurt them and giving himself so they will not push him away.
Does anybody have the secret decoder ring that can make me understand this post? It seems like it was written by an AI that was fed only Bret Easton Ellis and Chuck Palahniuk novels then asked to write a story about Captain Picard fucking Wesley Crusher.
 
May 7, 2021
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Does anybody have the secret decoder ring that can make me understand this post? It seems like it was written by an AI that was fed only Bret Easton Ellis and Chuck Palahniuk novels then asked to write a story about Captain Picard fucking Wesley Crusher.
I'm not even sure what to make of that analogy, but I laughed so thank you.
 
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Reniere

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2019
1,409
2,556
All this teasing with Jules and no play? Now Gary might get the muffin? Talk about cocking yourself lol
 

Crimsonfiend76

Herald - Super Naked Ginger Cuddle Time
Donor
Sep 8, 2020
2,299
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Does anybody have the secret decoder ring that can make me understand this post? It seems like it was written by an AI that was fed only Bret Easton Ellis and Chuck Palahniuk novels then asked to write a story about Captain Picard fucking Wesley Crusher.
Dude, its Canto, sooner or later you see his posts all over this site and just learn to roll with it.
 

NewTricks

Forum Fanatic
Nov 1, 2017
4,660
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Dude, its Canto, sooner or later you see his posts all over this site and just learn to roll with it.
I've seen them o_O :FacePalm:. Some of them are downright lucid, albeit uniformly beleaguered, misogynistic, and bellicose in equal measure. This one, however, is slam poetry for the mentally impaired. I gave it to an NSA code breaker and all he could get out of it is that if you only use every other word backward and translate that letter into Cyrillic characters before putting it through a caesaric quadrangle cypher you get a lovely recipe for borscht.
 

CherokeeGhost

New Member
Nov 18, 2021
6
15
On the flip side don't the female characters also have to be likable? I'm sorry but Dev/Deb and the Mom are anything but likable. I find both of them to be at fault for Marie being dead. I mean after all if it wasn't for what they did Marie may not have been mixed up in this whole thing to begin with and nowhere in the story has any of this been addressed? But the Deb/Dev has their own narrative.
I agree that Deb and the Mom are both culpable in some real way. But my issue with the MC is his lack of ability to examine himself through the same lens he's using with others....and his abject inability to empathize with those he claims to love. Deb may have been stupid but his reaction is downright vindictive...and I have a measure of disdain for vindictive people. None of us are flawless and I think that means we all need forgiveness.
 

Alphamale2467

Member
Mar 25, 2022
120
295
I agree that Deb and the Mom are both culpable in some real way. But my issue with the MC is his lack of ability to examine himself through the same lens he's using with others....and his abject inability to empathize with those he claims to love. Deb may have been stupid but his reaction is downright vindictive...and I have a measure of disdain for vindictive people. None of us are flawless and I think that means we all need forgiveness.
Not sure what story you are talking about, but in this one, her second chance is WAY in the rear-view. Exactly how many chances should she get? Lol.

"The name is Mat...Door Mat."
 
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CherokeeGhost

New Member
Nov 18, 2021
6
15
I disagree with your assessment of the MC, however it's immaterial.
You understand that his family is IMMENSELY WEALTHY right? Based on what we've seen wealth in the billions. Let me illuminate one of the worlds great truths. The need to be likable to attract companions is inversely related to wealth.
Errr...but the story is not about wealth...and neither was my assertion about the MC. And to be clear...it's not about 'companions', but rather relationships with family members, primarily, who also are equally wealthy...thus negating the wealth factor. So....what was your point?
 
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Canto Forte

Post Pro
Jul 10, 2017
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MC is but a vet living in a mansion caring for his wealthy family.
For whatever he is worth, MC is easy going and this game did manage to catch up with him
at a moment he could get girls, he would open up to them and would make remarks towards them
pursuing a relationship with them, be it touchy-feely or hanging out.
His GF, the blond neighbor, is wonderful enough so MC can show the world he is loving girls that love him back.
 

UncleFredo

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2020
1,940
3,670
Errr...but the story is not about wealth...and neither was my assertion about the MC. And to be clear...it's not about 'companions', but rather relationships with family members, primarily, who also are equally wealthy...thus negating the wealth factor. So....what was your point?
I was responding to your statement as follows " IMHO, MCs have to be likeable if they're going to be successful at building a harem. And this makes this guy's harem unbelievable".

My point is that if someone is wealthy enough they can build a harem without meeting any particular definition of likable, including yours. There are a large group attractive women who find access to wealth likable all on its own.
 

CherokeeGhost

New Member
Nov 18, 2021
6
15
I was responding to your statement as follows " IMHO, MCs have to be likeable if they're going to be successful at building a harem. And this makes this guy's harem unbelievable".

My point is that if someone is wealthy enough they can build a harem without meeting any particular definition of likable, including yours. There are a large group attractive women who find access to wealth likable all on its own.
While that is true, somewhat, in real life (I'm not certain money could actually hold a harem of women devoted to any man) that has absolutely NOTHING to do with characters in this story. I think I was pretty eloquent in stating that point. Your initial response was tangential and failed, being such, to provide any meaningful counterpoint. Your subsequent replies have only served to amplify that fact. The simple point is this... the MC is a jackass...and there may be some cause of affinity that limits your understanding of that fact. The author certainly fails to understand it.
The MC has a double standard on his morality....he judges others harshly while failing to recognize their devotion...and he lacks real love, in any measure, compared to those who've loved him and been devoted to him. Maybe it's just me ( but I think not based on the responses of others) but all these things considered produce an untenable and non credible story.
 

NewTricks

Forum Fanatic
Nov 1, 2017
4,660
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This is a really interesting ongoing conversation about the MC but it needs to be said that at this point he only seems to be at the midpoint of his character arc. This is, in fact, a very important point in that arc. The MC was introduced to us as a total waste of space so we shouldn't have been surprised about what came later. He was in initially so concerned with verifying that the woman he spent the night with was cisgender that he couldn't be bothered to even converse with her with anything except grunts and gestures. It really told us everything that you needed to know about him. Then he was rude and mean to the lawyer, blunt and uncaring with Deb, and we were off to the races. But the question we have to ask now is has he undergone character development? I believe so.

Forgiving Deb in this chapter is a huge step in the right direction, although I do understand why some may choose not to do it. She has as many problems, if not more, than he does. But in choosing to forgive Deb he may also take a step toward forgiving himself. After all, it is obvious that despite how loud he has been in blaming others for the state of things he has been blaming himself for destroying his family ever since his father caught him with Deb. The reason why he has never had an ounce of forgiveness for others is that forgiveness has to start at home so to speak. This is why his conversation with his father is this update is vitally important. Since that wound has been open and festering all these years he hasn't been able to heal from anything else.

Now I'm not defending MCs actions to this point. He is a caustic asshole and I fail to see what his female family members see in him. But that they do feel for him is as obvious as it is sad. If his character is to be salvaged then he is going to have to change. This much is clear. But he doesn't strike me as a static character. If he is, this story is doomed. But if he is a dynamic character who is able to face and perhaps finally admit his own flaws he may be able to pull his family back together. I do have hope for him. Perhaps misplaced hope as he is stubborn and implacable, but it is there.

If there is a consistent, underlying theme to the MC it is to be found in the title of the game. He is ex-military, an ex-husband, and an ex-convict. These are all things he used to be. Identities that he has shed. But he has not, as yet, left those in the past and made peace with who he is now in order to form a cohesive current identity. Too much in all three of his former lives remains unresolved. He is constantly in crisis and turmoil because he cannot reconcile his self-image with the person who exists now. I can understand this as I have struggled with it myself.

So it remains to be seen if he will grow and change through the course of these events, but if he does not why bother to tell the story at all? I think that we will see a big change in his entire paradigm starting in this upcoming update.
 

Crimsonfiend76

Herald - Super Naked Ginger Cuddle Time
Donor
Sep 8, 2020
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This is a really interesting ongoing conversation about the MC but it needs to be said that at this point he only seems to be at the midpoint of his character arc. This is, in fact, a very important point in that arc. The MC was introduced to us as a total waste of space so we shouldn't have been surprised about what came later. He was in initially so concerned with verifying that the woman he spent the night with was cisgender that he couldn't be bothered to even converse with her with anything except grunts and gestures. It really told us everything that you needed to know about him. Then he was rude and mean to the lawyer, blunt and uncaring with Deb, and we were off to the races. But the question we have to ask now is has he undergone character development? I believe so.

Forgiving Deb in this chapter is a huge step in the right direction, although I do understand why some may choose not to do it. She has as many problems, if not more, than he does. But in choosing to forgive Deb he may also take a step toward forgiving himself. After all, it is obvious that despite how loud he has been in blaming others for the state of things he has been blaming himself for destroying his family ever since his father caught him with Deb. The reason why he has never had an ounce of forgiveness for others is that forgiveness has to start at home so to speak. This is why his conversation with his father is this update is vitally important. Since that wound has been open and festering all these years he hasn't been able to heal from anything else.

Now I'm not defending MCs actions to this point. He is a caustic asshole and I fail to see what his female family members see in him. But that they do feel for him is as obvious as it is sad. If his character is to be salvaged then he is going to have to change. This much is clear. But he doesn't strike me as a static character. If he is, this story is doomed. But if he is a dynamic character who is able to face and perhaps finally admit his own flaws he may be able to pull his family back together. I do have hope for him. Perhaps misplaced hope as he is stubborn and implacable, but it is there.

If there is a consistent, underlying theme to the MC it is to be found in the title of the game. He is ex-military, an ex-husband, and an ex-convict. These are all things he used to be. Identities that he has shed. But he has not, as yet, left those in the past and made peace with who he is now in order to form a cohesive current identity. Too much in all three of his former lives remains unresolved. He is constantly in crisis and turmoil because he cannot reconcile his self-image with the person who exists now. I can understand this as I have struggled with it myself.

So it remains to be seen if he will grow and change through the course of these events, but if he does not why bother to tell the story at all? I think that we will see a big change in his entire paradigm starting in this upcoming update.
I hope so as I agree with everything you and Cherokee have previously posted regarding the MC. I am not absolving Deb or their mother for their own sins by any means, as most of this has been brought on by a seemingly incredible lack of communication and understanding.

Whereas their mother was completely forthright and candid with Deb about her feelings in addition to their dirty little family secret/legacy, she completely failed in having the same open and honest discussion with the MC, that could have at least given him the benefit of the doubt in trusting them, not to mention avoiding all the guilt and self-loathing he's carried for half his life as it relates to his conflicted feelings of attraction towards his female family members.

In any case, I avoided the last update as I was getting frustrated at the lack of progress in moving along the story...both in terms of the main plot, and also in regards to finally resolving all the familial issues with the MC's immediate and extended family. I've been eagerly awaiting this next update in hopes I can finally see some closure with the MC's family and real progress with the main plot.
 

CherokeeGhost

New Member
Nov 18, 2021
6
15
This is a really interesting ongoing conversation about the MC but it needs to be said that at this point he only seems to be at the midpoint of his character arc. This is, in fact, a very important point in that arc. The MC was introduced to us as a total waste of space so we shouldn't have been surprised about what came later. He was in initially so concerned with verifying that the woman he spent the night with was cisgender that he couldn't be bothered to even converse with her with anything except grunts and gestures. It really told us everything that you needed to know about him. Then he was rude and mean to the lawyer, blunt and uncaring with Deb, and we were off to the races. But the question we have to ask now is has he undergone character development? I believe so.

Forgiving Deb in this chapter is a huge step in the right direction, although I do understand why some may choose not to do it. She has as many problems, if not more, than he does. But in choosing to forgive Deb he may also take a step toward forgiving himself. After all, it is obvious that despite how loud he has been in blaming others for the state of things he has been blaming himself for destroying his family ever since his father caught him with Deb. The reason why he has never had an ounce of forgiveness for others is that forgiveness has to start at home so to speak. This is why his conversation with his father is this update is vitally important. Since that wound has been open and festering all these years he hasn't been able to heal from anything else.

Now I'm not defending MCs actions to this point. He is a caustic asshole and I fail to see what his female family members see in him. But that they do feel for him is as obvious as it is sad. If his character is to be salvaged then he is going to have to change. This much is clear. But he doesn't strike me as a static character. If he is, this story is doomed. But if he is a dynamic character who is able to face and perhaps finally admit his own flaws he may be able to pull his family back together. I do have hope for him. Perhaps misplaced hope as he is stubborn and implacable, but it is there.

If there is a consistent, underlying theme to the MC it is to be found in the title of the game. He is ex-military, an ex-husband, and an ex-convict. These are all things he used to be. Identities that he has shed. But he has not, as yet, left those in the past and made peace with who he is now in order to form a cohesive current identity. Too much in all three of his former lives remains unresolved. He is constantly in crisis and turmoil because he cannot reconcile his self-image with the person who exists now. I can understand this as I have struggled with it myself.

So it remains to be seen if he will grow and change through the course of these events, but if he does not why bother to tell the story at all? I think that we will see a big change in his entire paradigm starting in this upcoming update.
I appreciate your thoughtful and thought provoking addition to the dialogue NT. I'll hope with you that the MC's evolution produces both liberation and thus a deep appreciation for the mostly unwarranted love he receives. That will be quite the 'hat trick' to pull off with credibility, for the author. I like happy endings and they're my main reason for reading any fiction. Life is already filled with far too much pain and disappointment...I don't need to digest it in my reading. So I will keep reading this story hoping it won't be in vain. But thanks for your insights.
 
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