Unity Tax & Engine Alternatives

[A middle-aged Femboy]

I was trying out unity for a 2d sidescroller I was planning to release for free here, but I recently heard unity will be charging people per install soon.
I spent a fair bit of time learning the engine, but I don't want to support unity's decision or wake up one morning and cough up money for something I made for fun in my spare time.

So, what are some game engines you recommend?

Edit: Added an abridged FAQ for the runtime fee, can't trust unity enough after this, even when they bought some adware company a while back.

Feel free to look at Unity's FAQ yourself if you want.

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Let me know if there is anything I need to change or remove, or something new to add in my version.

Spoiler: Abridged Unity FAQ

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Recommendation Links:
Small list of FREE game engines and frameworks

 

[Count Morado]

I was trying out unity for a 2d sidescroller I was planning to release for free here, but I recently heard unity will be charging people per install soon.
I spent a fair bit of time learning the engine, but I don't want to support unity's decision or wake up one morning and cough up money for something I made for fun in my spare time.

So, what are some game engines you recommend?

Only if you earn $200,000 in a year on the game and have over 200,000 lifetime installs.
Right now that effects, at most, maybe, if patreon subscriptions count, 6 developers of titles you'd find on this site.

If you are not charging anything for a game, you will never earn $200,000 in one year on it and, therefore, don't have to worry about the runtime install fee.

 

[Saki_Sliz]

Not to mention, they still need to fight through the legal issues of this bs

 

[GNVE]

Not to mention, they still need to fight through the legal issues of this bs

Maybe they'll change it for new releases of the engine. Easiest way to not have to deal with legal stuff. Like they did for the different D&D versions. I haven't read anything about it but I can imagine they'll do something like this.

 

[A middle-aged Femboy]

Only if you earn $200,000 in a year on the game and have over 200,000 lifetime installs.
Right now that effects, at most, maybe, if patreon subscriptions count, 6 developers of titles you'd find on this site.

If you are not charging anything for a game, you will never earn $200,000 in one year on it and, therefore, don't have to worry about the runtime install fee.

I still think it's stupid and I would throw their tea into Boston harbor, but at least I worried over nothing over the money part.
Hope they at least remove the install thing entirely at some point.

 

[Hagatagar]

Maybe they'll change it for new releases of the engine. Easiest way to not have to deal with legal stuff. Like they did for the different D&D versions. I haven't read anything about it but I can imagine they'll do something like this.

They sure are trying...

 

[MissFortune]

Only if you earn $200,000 in a year on the game and have over 200,000 lifetime installs.
Right now that effects, at most, maybe, if patreon subscriptions count, 6 developers of titles you'd find on this site.

If you are not charging anything for a game, you will never earn $200,000 in one year on it and, therefore, don't have to worry about the runtime install fee.

I don't think this is quite accurate.

Additionally, while its updated FAQ remains hazy on the exact nature of an "install", Axios' Stephen Totilo has

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from Unity that a developer will be charged every time a user installs a game, including each time they choose to delete then reinstall it. Additionally, every new device a game is installed on will count as a chargeable install, making it clear the company plans to accrue fees far and above the number of individual sales of a game.

 

[Count Morado]

I don't think this is quite accurate.

In order to be charged the fee - a developer has to hit two thresholds:

1. Annual earnings on a title
2. Lifetime installs

Depending upon the Unity product the developer uses, this could be as low as $200,000 and 200,000 installs. It's a conjunction AND, not a disjunction OR.

They aren't going to charge a developer if the title is free to play. That said, I don't know if they have clarified Patreon/Subscribestar/etc platforms where the title isn't purchased, but is a tier reward. Nor do I think have they clarified where the title is free for all, but the developer has a Patreon/etc account that promotes the title, but isn't tied to a tier yet supporting the developer obviously supports the development of the title.

 

[hiro_san]

"Godot" engine...maybe...I think.

 

[Hagatagar]

That said, I don't know if they have clarified Patreon/Subscribestar/etc platforms where the title isn't purchased, but is a tier reward. Nor do I think have they clarified where the title is free for all, but the developer has a Patreon/etc account that promotes the title, but isn't tied to a tier yet supporting the developer obviously supports the development of the title.

Since Patreon/Subscribestar are subscription services, I think this applies to them.

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.

 

[danasavage]

+1 for Godot! Especially after yesterday's news. It's great for 2D support, there's less of third-party 'middleware' asset library (which is probs its big downside for some people used to the huge Unity marketplace), but it's a really fun intuitive engine to use once you wrap your head around it, and as long as you want to code things yourself then it's so so fun imo.

You can use Godot's own GDScript - which is syntactically similar to python - or carry on using C# if you prefer that.

And just my 2 cents, but if you're not going 3D, i'd honestly recommend using 3.5 stable instead of jumping in on 4 - there's more tutorials online, and it handles HTML and Android exports pretty solidly, as well as PC/Mac/Linux exports.

 

[anne O'nymous]

In order to be charged the fee - a developer has to hit two thresholds:

1. Annual earnings on a title
2. Lifetime installs

The issue is on the second point. There's a dichotomy between the "lifetime installs" they are talking about, and what MissFortune quoted here.
If you are charged every time someone install the game, where's the "lifetime" part ? And the issue here being that games on the adult scene are mostly WIP, therefore it suffice for 20,000 players and 10 updates to reach their install threshold.
Rest the earning one, that effectively will drastically limits the number of games impacted.

They aren't going to charge a developer if the title is free to play. That said, I don't know if they have clarified Patreon/Subscribestar/etc platforms where the title isn't purchased, but is a tier reward.

Since Unity is mostly used for app games, therefore free games that get their revenues from ads, I fear that they already clarified what "earning" means, and that it's any buck you get thanks to the game. Therefore Patreon's earning count.


It looks like they want to boost Unity use (you've more times for your game to succeed due to the earning limit raise), while also increasing their own earning (once your game succeed you'll be way more likely to pay the fees).

 

[baka]

unity uses C# so why not just keep using that.
if u want crossplatform try monogame and godot.

 

[Count Morado]

The issue is on the second point. There's a dichotomy between the "lifetime installs" they are talking about, and what MissFortune quoted here.
If you are charged every time someone install the game, where's the "lifetime" part ? And the issue here being that games on the adult scene are mostly WIP, therefore it suffice for 20,000 players and 10 updates to reach their install threshold.

I don't understand the argument being made? Perhaps it is a language barrier misunderstanding of the term "Lifetime Installs." Players don't get lifetime installs.

It's not that once a player installs a title onto their computer that counts as 1 install, no matter how many times they may reinstall it for their lifetime. It's that the installation counts toward the total number of installs for the title's lifetime. It's like the odometer of a car - each km the car moves (even if the car is going in a circle over the same km), or each time a person installs (even if it is the same person reinstalling the same version), it adds one to the counter of the car's (or the title's) lifetime.

So, say that a title releases v0.01, v0.02, v0.03, and is now on v0.04. If a person is following its thread on F95 since the beginning and has installed each of those 4 versions (once per version) - that is 4 installs counting against the 200,000 installations across the title's lifetime.

Your "20,000 players and 10 updates to reach their install threshold" is correct, from my reading of Unity's information, and appears to be their intent.

This still goes to the fact that both thresholds need met in order for the Unity Runtime Fee to activate - depending upon what Unity plan owned, a developer needs to earn at least $200,000 in the previous 12 months from the title AND the title has to have at least 200,000 installations (including reinstallations) over the course of the title's lifetime.

 

[anne O'nymous]

It's that the installation counts toward the total number of installs for the title's lifetime.

But it's "lifetime installs" they used, not "software's lifetime". It's expected to be a legal document, words matters more than anywhere else. And here their words are really ambiguous ; what was my point.
They also don't talk about "total installs", what would be more appropriate in regard of the earning being counter yearly, and a possible synonymous for "software's lifetime".

But installs made on the same computer can be tracked, as well as installs made through the same Steam account by example. They match more the notion of lifetime installs ; like it is for lifetime license by example.
You buy the game once but, for Steam, play it on your old computer, and continue to play it after you changed your computer. This counting for one installation.
It's surely even possible to track this at project level. A bit easier to cheat, but for big companies it would mean a lawsuit that would finish them, while indies would probably not think about this.

This still goes to the fact that both thresholds need met in order for the Unity Runtime Fee to activate [...]

This is where there's an issue with the legality of their new terms. Because as worded, and in regard of what was quoted by MissFortune, the number of installation is counted independently from the sales number.
Buy the game once, install it three time, because you want to play in holidays so install it on your laptop, then because you broke your laptop and have to reinstall it, and Unity will be closer to get their money, while the creator haven't earned more.
Buy the game on Steam, install it each time it's updated, and again Unity will be closer to get their money, while the creator haven't earned more.
There's a real legal issue here.

And this threshold problem is even bigger for apps, because they are free. How many people will try your app, and just use it for five minutes before deciding that it's shit and removing it ? Of course, you still need to earn US$ 200,000/year to pay the fees, but it's the sole real threshold.
The installs threshold is pure bullshit here, and looks like you need a given number of users, while it's in the end something radically different.
Once again, there's a real legal issue here. I'm pretty sure that EU Law, at least, don't agree with fees being indexed on something that is neither the sole earning, nor the effective number of users.
To keep your car comparison, it's like the insurance being based on the km traveled, but km counted through GPS. Therefore, put your car on a train/boat (by example because your job imply that you need to often cross the channel) and your insurance will charge you for km that you haven't effectively drove ; what would be illegal.


In the end, creators are still winner, because the earning threshold have been doubled. But the terms are really not safe from a legal point of view.

 

[Count Morado]

But it's "lifetime installs" they used, not "software's lifetime". It's expected to be a legal document, words matters more than anywhere else. And here their words are really ambiguous ; what was my point.
They also don't talk about "total installs", what would be more appropriate in regard of the earning being counter yearly, and a possible synonymous for "software's lifetime".

But installs made on the same computer can be tracked, as well as installs made through the same Steam account by example. They match more the notion of lifetime installs ; like it is for lifetime license by example.
You buy the game once but, for Steam, play it on your old computer, and continue to play it after you changed your computer. This counting for one installation.
It's surely even possible to track this at project level. A bit easier to cheat, but for big companies it would mean a lawsuit that would finish them, while indies would probably not think about this.




This is where there's an issue with the legality of their new terms. Because as worded, and in regard of what was quoted by MissFortune, the number of installation is counted independently from the sales number.
Buy the game once, install it three time, because you want to play in holidays so install it on your laptop, then because you broke your laptop and have to reinstall it, and Unity will be closer to get their money, while the creator haven't earned more.
Buy the game on Steam, install it each time it's updated, and again Unity will be closer to get their money, while the creator haven't earned more.
There's a real legal issue here.

And this threshold problem is even bigger for apps, because they are free. How many people will try your app, and just use it for five minutes before deciding that it's shit and removing it ? Of course, you still need to earn US$ 200,000/year to pay the fees, but it's the sole real threshold.
The installs threshold is pure bullshit here, and looks like you need a given number of users, while it's in the end something radically different.
Once again, there's a real legal issue here. I'm pretty sure that EU Law, at least, don't agree with fees being indexed on something that is neither the sole earning, nor the effective number of users.
To keep your car comparison, it's like the insurance being based on the km traveled, but km counted through GPS. Therefore, put your car on a train/boat (by example because your job imply that you need to often cross the channel) and your insurance will charge you for km that you haven't effectively drove ; what would be illegal.


In the end, creators are still winner, because the earning threshold have been doubled. But the terms are really not safe from a legal point of view.

Okay. Yes. I understand what you are saying about legal terms. All their legal team needs to do is place in their Terms and Conditions in the Definitions section (which their should already be), a bullet for what they mean when they say "Lifetime Installs" and your issue is resolved in a legal sense.

Everything else you are getting into in your argument is the minutiae that Unity needs to better answer, I agree. However, as it stands right now - every install and reinstall counts against the lifetime installs of the title of the software. That includes if it is v0.01.01 or if it is v4.72.13b.

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The simple fact that several of us with some semblance of common sense, intelligence, and experience can find problems with how Unity expects to implement this plan shows they did not do their due diligence to make sure the details were properly decided. This smells of something that was dreamed up in a board meeting to pad the bottom line and figure it out later - that's what they pay the legal counsel for. It's telling that the CEO sold off a good portion of his stock just prior to this announcement. The CEO is a pump and dump kind of manager - not one who is actually wanting to preserve the integrity and resiliency and legacy of a brand, but rather an entitlement approach to "get what's mine and fuck you all."

 

[Hagatagar]

These points and concerns are also being discussed at length over on the

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(with over 4300 posts).

The issue with the legality is actually a big topic, the common consensus over there is that despite Unitiy's assurances that it is legitimate, that this is not allowed in either the EU, Canada or even in the, by Unity, referred Californian law.

And their overall approach is also very dubious.

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[Mondoblasto]

A link and numbers that have been reported on:

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Also related:

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[peterppp]

I'm still at a loss what Miss Fortune was saying was inaccurate in what the post above said.

i interpret it as him interpreting that quote out of context, so ignoring the install+revenue limits. read as it is, it says the dev has to pay a fee for every install, that's it. but what do i know?

 

[thaeral]

"Godot" engine...maybe...I think.

How fortuitous is it that Godot just announced their new Godot Dev Fund on 9/12?

Sources:

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