- Jun 14, 2020
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Dude, this girl isn't a "romantic interest" at that moment of the game. In fact MC hates her at that point of the game. So fuck it...
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Deimacos
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I'm not talking exclusively about her, and that's another uncertainty with the rule, plenty of characters do not start as LI in these games, but as a player, you can pretty much get a good guess who will be.
- Jun 14, 2020
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Listen, pal, it all doesn't matters. Have you ever played this game? At first MC is a sociopath. Every girl and woman in this AVN is just a tool for him and not a person. Second, at the moment where the rapists wants to fuck this girl MC has only one interest in her: maximum damage. He was the one who caused this situation. And last but not least, if you don't want her to be raped, just stop that.
Just a minor cut-in: MC views only the girls related to his revenge as tools (like the journalist's daughter). And iirc, the train rape was meant to scare the girl and then have the MC save the day... or something like that. But yeah, if you don't like it, step in and stop it.
The vague or interpretable meaning of the NTR tag isn't really the problem with the tag. It's the fact that no matter how specific or ambiguous you define it to be, it will never succeed in answering all players what they want to know with regards to that topic because each player has its own criteria: From the way they choose "who is a love interest and who isn't" to "what situations make them uncomfortable". So, there's no way a tag can successfully answer the kind of questions it's supposed to answer.
People, no matter what, will need to ask in the forum what situations occur in the game that could or could not warrant the NTR tag and then with a more game-specific answer, choose for themselves.
The way I see it, the NTR tag should not exist, so that no one could infer a specific meaning from it and get to the wrong conclusion about a specific game having or not having the tag.
People, no matter what, will need to ask in the forum what situations occur in the game that could or could not warrant the NTR tag and then with a more game-specific answer, choose for themselves.
The way I see it, the NTR tag should not exist, so that no one could infer a specific meaning from it and get to the wrong conclusion about a specific game having or not having the tag.
ClockworkGnome
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- Sep 18, 2021
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Very much this. And not helped by the fact that some devs will deliberately give vague or misleading answers when asked either out of a desire to "avoid spoilers" or because they know full well that the truth will drive away potential players.
The easiest solution would be if devs just outright learned to specify up front whether a game was going to have scenes like that, and whether they'd be mandatory/skippable/avoidable/etc, but even then you run into the problem of definitions (Does it count if it's lesbians? Does it count if someone isn't a LI at the time? Does it count if someone is never going to be a LI? Does it count if you're being NTR'd by your future self?). Not to mention many devs have absolutely no idea where their stories are going to go when they start working on the game, so they can't really predict every possible tag in advance.
Which is why there's always going to be NTR questions/talk in almost any given game thread, because it's not as intuitive as just slapping a "gay men being gay" or "weird foot fetish" tag on a game so people who aren't into that know whether or not a game is for them, or if they should just move on.
I honestly never look at it as is. Whenever I see a game that looks interesting I just do a quick search of the thread so far to see how many people have brought up NTR asking about it or complaining about it to get a feel for whether or not it's in the game and if so what kind. Just like whenever I see a "female protagonist" game I immediately search "lesbian" to see if there's a dedicated lesbian route or if the game is just another "watch the female lead get repeatedly raped and corrupted" deal.
Plus honestly, half the purpose of the tags is so that people who ARE interested in a specific fetish can go looking for games that have it - but because NTR is such a mess when it comes to classification, it means NTR fans have a hard time searching for NTR games. Because they follow the tags to games that don't really give them the sort of NTR experience they actually want (which in turn makes them complain about anti-NTR people whining, and just adds more fuel to the whole argument all over again).
Tags are a tool. Sometimes they can help give an idea what's in a game, but some tags aren't that helpful or informative at all. And honestly, people should get used to looking at the "Genre" and "Developer's Notes" section (and more devs should get used to posting them and clearly outlining their intentions in them). More descriptive posts are way better for advertising content than tags.
To be fair, the "NT" part always means the same thing (NeTo), but not the "R" part (Ri/Rare/Rase). That's 3 different fetishes, all shortened to the same letter. No way that wouldn't cause confusion and dissatisfaction.
- Jun 14, 2020
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Yeah... no possibility the dev really don't want to spoil the story. They refuse to answer those question only to annoy the crowd. Seems legit.
You know the most devs didn't even on this board and they don't care about the tag rules of a piracy board? Why should any dev specify a tag where even the crowd can't decide which definition counts.
No, the discussions don't start with the NTR fetish crowd. It's the fragile anti-NTR-brigade who permanently asks "is there NTR? is it avoidable?" It's so annoying, because it's the best way to derail a thread. After these questions (which one could look up with the search function and get all the answers) in 90% of the time it starts a debate about what's NTR and what not. Like this shit here. It's all because there some virgins out there who are such snowflakes they can't bear with woman having sex without their alter ego.
There's only one way to stop this cancer: remove the NTR tag generally, ban the word NTR like they did it with the word childporn (q.e.d) and ban all the dudes who starts a discussion about it.
But, dudes, could we get back to topic now? It's about Waifu Academy, which doesn't contain NTR in the meaning of the F95 tag rules, and only that rules count on F95. And it's about Irphaeus the master of the milky way who managed it to empty his cows on Patreon with a game which clearly offends several rules of Patreon. There some topics about this game we could discuss. The incel behavior of MC for example.
That's another problem. The "half" purpose, I mean. Tags are being used in two different ways, so a tag might be applicable in one sense and not applicable in the other.
I would restrict the tags to inform about general topics or focus of the game:
- NTR tag should mean the game revolves around NTR situations.
- Female protagonist tag should mean the game is near always played from the POV of a woman.
Otherwise, the tags are misleading:
- NTR tag just because there's 1 situation where NTR might be applicable among hundreds of other situations?
- Female protagonist tag just because there's a minor scene where the POV changes to that of a woman?
It's ridiculous.
Waifu Academy doesn't revolve around NTR content and therefore it shouldn't have that tag.
It's been months since the last update, most people have already said and discussed whatever they were interested in saying and discussing, so it's... complicated.
- Jun 14, 2020
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That's the problem with a game where a dev make huuuuuge updates with biiiiiiig amount of content once a year and all you get is... wait... what did the simps get in the last update? There wasn't anything to progress the story.
Anyway, one can discuss many things about the game not just the "content" of the last update. But if there's nothing to say, we don't have to write anything.
Noor Oneal
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- Oct 26, 2019
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Deimacos
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Again, is not about that one scene only, that is but one of the many scenes that some may take as NTR content that they very much would like to know about before they waste their time, is not even about the intention or the story, the scene is there, period, it's all that matters.
And I've been here since the very beginning, there's nothing you can tell about this game I don't already know.
I mean, is the only thing you can currently do to avoid a "bad end", and I don't want to be 99% sure we will never get to see what the other options will ever lead to.
That's true for many other tags, the "Big Tits" tag is "Used when a character's bust is disproportionately big." OK, how big is disproportionately big then? Know what I mean? Is just that with this one, you can get quite far of a strecht.
Exactly, but when they do so, most people get shut down or ridiculed, and the only answers they'll get is "read the tags" or "use the search", even when its easier for anyone to just straight up answer the question properly or at the very least ignore it so that they are forced to use the search function.
This I disagree with, you don't need to be overly specific but you should always inform your players what they are signing up for.
There's ways of telling things without spoiling the story.
Almost every game's description comes from their respective "product page" or is based on it, what he is asking for is not for devs to give tags, but a better description of what the game has in stores so that people can get a better guess of what they'll come across.
IF anything, the discussion starts when the "look me alpha male, but you're so whinny" crowd gets up in arms about it, instead of just plainly answering a valid question or just simply ignoring it.
Ah yea, because one description fits them all, quite the statement you made here.
The game does contain NTR, Sheila's Kensou scene, she got involved with someone other than the MC, with the express intention to cause jealousy in him, it gets quite in line with the rule itself, and if you disagree, sorry, but that's the kind of vagueness the rule allows for....
There's only one way to stop this cancer: remove the NTR tag generally, ban the word NTR like they did it with the word childporn (q.e.d) and ban all the dudes who starts a discussion about it.
But, dudes, could we get back to topic now? It's about Waifu Academy, which doesn't contain NTR in the meaning of the F95 tag rules, and only that rules count on F95. And it's about Irphaeus the master of the milky way who managed it to empty his cows on Patreon with a game which clearly offends several rules of Patreon. There some topics about this game we could discuss. The incel behavior of MC for example.
It is ridiculous, I get you, but that's not the point of a tag system, I mean there's a reason why a site like
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exists, just a single instance is enough to ruin any kind of enjoyment you got and leave in your head a memory you would rather never had.It's why I'm not debating the bestiality tag, despite the only instance being of some dog giving a couple of licks to some girl's puss and nothing more.
I doesn't mean we can't, besides, there's always someone new poping up, who needs to be told of the sad state of this joint.
That's from like, more than 5 years ago, as it is now, I would rather have the dev focus on moving the story forwards if only a little than give him the excuse of "delays because of reworks".
2019, it was said somewhere that the plan was to have the main route done by that year's end, two years later I was told by some "VIP san" that the game's main route will be done in a year, it's been four months since that year passed and I think only 1 update came out ever since.
So don't believe anyone who gives you a date, at this point be glad if an update ever comes around, and hopefully, it will be done someday.
ClockworkGnome
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- Sep 18, 2021
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Which is why I used the word "OR".
Some devs are absolutely sincere in wanting to avoid spoilers. Some devs are absolutely hedging their bets or using vague answers to hide the fact that a game has NTR because they know there will be a negative reaction to it. Both scenarios exist, and have played out countless times on the board.
And again, like it or not, it contributes to why the term/concept has become such a point of argument. When people are more paranoid about "LOL SURPRISE NTR!", they're more likely to ask about it in a thread even if a game doesn't have it listed in the tags, genre, or developer's notes. Because there's no real expectation that people are going to be honest about it (especially when people can't even agree about what it actually IS).
In cases where a dev isn't on the board and maintaining their own thread, that would be where whoever is posting the initial thread, linking to game uploads, etc should be doing the same job. Especially if the dev is posting their own tags/descriptions/explanations/etc on Patreon/Discord/etc. Even devs who aren't here should be communicative with their intended audience if they actually expect to have an audience.
This really isn't rocket science.
As for why devs should care about a pirate site at all is because it still signal boosts their work. A lot of the devs who do choose to engage with people here find that they expand their Patreon fanbase significantly. Sites like this bring attention to games that would otherwise languish in obscurity, and while most users will always be freeloading cheapskates, good games with friendly devs willing to communicate tend to encourage users to support them just to ensure a game gets finished.
The better a dev can communicate their intentions and plans for their game, the more likely they are to find the correct fanbase for that game, and one more potentially likely to actually support the game.
They absolutely do - sometimes.
There are plenty of cases where pro-NTR people have come into random threads and started asking for NTR in games that don't have it (which sets off the back-and-forth). There are also cases where pro-NTR people have come into threads for games that have an NTR tag and complain because it's not the right kind of NTR, or because it's not NTR enough, or because it's one throwaway scene and they feel like the tag should only describe games with a heavy NTR focus. I've also seen a few blatantly NTR games where the first few pages of the thread are people complaining about anti-NTR whining when there isn't a single anti-NTR person posting in the thread at all.
The constant NTR arguments are absolutely a two-way street. Both sides are exacerbating the problem, no matter what you may choose to tell yourself. And there are absolutely assholes on both sides who go out of their way to be as provocative as possible about it.
If you've never seen a single instance where the back-and-forth starts with the pro side complaining, it's either because you're looking at a very narrow and specific spectrum of game threads, or because your own biases have completely blinded you to anyone who agrees with you - because it's always easier to blame "the other guy" whenever anything goes wrong.
Because, as we've already established, this site does a terrible job of defining what it is and what it isn't, and way too many people have different opinions of what "counts" and what doesn't. So you get into weird murky grey areas where someone can say a game doesn't have NTR because it doesn't according to their definition, but it absolutely does based on other people's opinions.
As an easy example, it's easy to say whether or not a game has lesbian scenes in it. Everyone has a pretty good idea what "lesbian" is. But then apply that to NTR and suddenly you've got a mess. Does lesbian sex count as NTR? Some people will say lesbians can never be NTR. Other people will say that lesbians can be NTR if it fits the other criteria of what makes something NTR. And some people will say a female LI cheating on you with anyone - male, female, or otherwise - is automatically NTR. And to complicate things further, people will argue over whether or not lesbian scenes in a harem context are NTR if the main character is okay with them but the player isn't given any choice in the matter. So now you've got a thread full of people who can't agree on what NTR is, let alone whether or not a given game has it or not.
Like it or not, because it's such a complex topic, it's something that is much better addressed in threads than just rubberstamped with a single pithy tag. People might disagree over what is and isn't NTR, but if it's pointed out in the thread that the game has a scene where two female LIs have sex with each other, a robot, and a tentacle monster plant, then it's entirely up to the players to decide how they want to feel about that. And specifying that that scene is either unavoidable, skippable (it happens but you don't have to watch), or completely avoidable (you can prevent it from happening at all) goes a long way to telling a player whether a game is something they want to engage with (and potentially waste hours of their life on).
Discussion isn't a bad thing. Discussion only really becomes bad when it becomes argument.
And if anything, the only reason the discussion gets annoying after a while is because most people are too lazy to use the search function, so the same question keeps getting asked over and over and over and over...
If anything, that would probably make things worse. Because without a shorthand term people would be even more curious as to the content of any given game, and just find different ways to talk around the ban (potentially making things even more confusing). And if mods got really draconian about banning everyone who even hints at asking about the subject, a lot of people would just move to a different forum entirely and this one would eventually wither and die (or just turn into an extremely NTR-centric site).
Realistically, what the site actually needs is clearer terminology and more informative/diverse tags. I understand why they don't want to get that granular with things, but without it there will always be a conflict whenever NTR comes up.
ClockworkGnome
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- Sep 18, 2021
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The problem there is that then you're successfully applying them in one sense and then completely negating them for the other.
I'd agree that if the sole purpose of the tags was to link to games with specific content, those tags should be limited to games that are heavy on that content. But as long as tags are also used to warn about specific content, they need to be used whenever a game has ANY of that sort of content. Someone who is anti-scat isn't going to care whether or not scat is a predominant theme of the game, they're probably going to want to avoid the game if it's present at all (though they might be willing to make an exception if it's only in one scene and is totally and obviously avoidable).
And like it or not, both uses have merit.
Maybe what the site actually needs is two different sets of tags. One set that can be used to indicate a game's core themes/scenes, with a second set of tags that can be used to warn whether certain types of content are present at all. So people looking for a specific type of game can use one set, while people trying to avoid a specific type of content can use the other. That would certainly help when looking for female protagonist games with dedicated lesbian paths as opposed to female lead games where lesbian sex occurs but the majority of scenes are still unavoidable straight sex. As-is the lesbian tag alone is completely useless for that.
It would also potentially cut down the number of people trying to argue over whether or not a given scene is NTR, because the overarching theme tags could err on the side of being more permissive, while the warning tags could err on the side of being more restrictive.
If you really want to solve the actual problem, then you'd have to change the [NTR] tag into three full tags - [Netorare], [Netori], [Netorase] - and strictly define them onsite (maybe some kind of popup when when you hover over it long enough, like the games do).
As it currently is, it's like telling someone to enter a house using "the door", but which? Front? Back? Side? Having better definitions would remove most of the people asking, but not the ones who don't look through the thread. That's a different problem entirely.
What I meant is that, provided the NTR tag can't warn about anything the least bit specific, it can only be misleading. Specifically, when the tag is used because of one or very few instances, it's very likely that it fits the criteria of very few people.
I think this is a bit overly dramatic.
We're talking about very unrealistic games that more often than not have bugs, are never completed, have disabled options because it's a work in progress, have bad narrative and worse grammar. And you're telling me people achieve a transcendental degree of immersion by which an undesired scene can scar their heart forever?
Another user suggested using two different sets of tags: one for recurring themes and the other for >0 instances. That would be optimal in terms of information, but if that's not going to happen, I think it should be used to mark recurring themes alone.
Not just to favor people looking for a specific topic, but to warn people as well. There are topics I don't enjoy, but it's not the same something happening once or twice and something happening all the time.
If it's something happening once or twice, just ignore the scene and move on. Most of these games use ren'py and it has a skip option.
Does anyone know if there is a Takamura card available somewhere?