VN Ren'Py Onhold We Were Just Kids [v0.3b] [MissFortune]

[Havenless_]

A question about the female protagonist.

Is it possible that her diet consists exclusively of eating vaginas? I don't want to be forced to romance men or interact sexually with them when I play with her. Not much my thing.

And if this is possible, that none of the protagonists share love interests. That each one has their own, or we can choose who they are for whom.

 

[The ArcKnight]

Not going to lie, the title of this Vn has me worried until I read the synopsis and realized its the name of the Metalcore band.
As a name for a band, its fantastic. It also serves to foreshadow the dark undertones of the story as we watch this quartet get a very rude awakening into how the world works and taken advantage of, because to the wilder world, They were Just Kids....

I have a question though, since there will be 2 protags and they are both in the same band, will they end up being together?
I know the harem aspect will mostly be a Logan thing, buuut a big happy band family with Logan, Rainn and Reagan could be awesome.... sans Jason though, we can get rid of Jason. >.>;;

 

[Wicked Garden]

I wanna say best of luck to the Dev, I played the game, the renders look nice, lighting could use work but the Dev already addressed that it's a WIP in the opening. Ultimately this game isn't for me, too much bouncing around per usual in multiple protagonist games, there's too many Mc's in this game. Not to mention, the female character will probably "get into situations" we all know what that means(Loopholes), which is why I usually ignore Female protagonist games completely. Good luck on your project though.

 

[Hmm...]

Seems interesting. Surprised at how many folks are upset at the multiple progtagonists aspects, not sure why, I've played a couple of games that handle it well. Maybe this is one of those things I learn about this forum (similar to how I've discovered there are whole debates over "NTR"). If the dev does it well it can be a lot of fun.

For me, it is about the writing itself. It is a great thing to have multiple well fleshed out characters, but it is another thing entirely to devote enough screen time on what would otherwise be a secondary character that they get deemed a protagonist. Multiple Protagonists rarely work outside on an RPG, where the party is expected to stick together and share a collective story. In Visual Novels especially, the Multiple Protagonist tag is a clear warning that the writing will be too ambitious and consequently unfocused. Very rarely does a shifting perspective actually add anything to a story in a meaningful way that couldn't have been implemented in a better more organic way that doesn't split the focus away from the MC the player actually likes.

Example: Like how the most generic and awful of FemProtag games constantly swap to every random shmuck's perspective cause the writer thinks we absolutely need to know he is currently thinking: "OMG hr asss is so goood!!! I jist gottta touch!!!" When the writer could have just not done that, and simply had the guy touch her ass, or included some proper prose describing how heads turn in your direction as you walk, your very presence demanding their attention. The perspective shift was unnecessary and juvenile.

Then there lies another possible issue with it, the protagonists themselves. As I'm sure everyone should know by now, a lot of writers struggle with making likable characters. Combo that with obnoxious tropes that worm their way into a majority of games despite a general dislike for them and most people have certain tags that they personally avoid. Some are obnoxious about it like the folks that feel the need to announce that they only play MaleProtag games on every thread with a FemProtag, and some are typically quiet about it unless it comes up in a conversation or comes into a game with no forewarning. I myself don't typically like MaleProtag games. There isn't any deeper reason behind my dislike of MaleProtags than the fact that I find an overwhelming majority of MaleProtags are written to be absolutely insufferable, and I would prefer not playing as a brain damaged man-child. There are exceptions, and I greatly enjoy finding those exceptions, but I am significantly less likely to try a game with a MaleProtag in the first place.

For people that want one or the other, Multiple Protags is the worst of both worlds. The writer puts even more weight on himself trying to make two likeable protagonists and balancing their screen time and perspectives without perspective hopping too much as to cause a dissociation with the story. It is simply easier to get the audience invested when focusing on a single character's perspective, and a lot of writers can't even get that right. With two or more protags, it only takes one of them to be poorly written to sour the whole story. Even if they are all decently done it is still less likely the viewer will actually care about all of them, and time spent on a protag the viewer doesn't care for will feel like time wasted to the viewer. Multiple Protags can be done well, but the tag doesn't inspire a lot of confidence when someone is looking to try out a story-driven game.

 

[House Of Black]

I wanna say best of luck to the Dev, I played the game, the renders look nice, lighting could use work but the Dev already addressed that it's a WIP in the opening. Ultimately this game isn't for me, too much bouncing around per usual in multiple protagonist games, there's too many Mc's in this game. Not to mention, the female character will probably "get into situations" we all know what that means(Loopholes), which is why I usually ignore Female protagonist games completely. Good luck on your project though.

I’m sure it’ll lead to her getting blackmailed and doing some random

 

[MissFortune]

dev well, this game will be a dark shit? i mean death, betrayal, heartbroken and so on. i just don't want to get my hopes up

There are choices that may lead to death/attempted suicide, but it's more about dealing with past and present demons, along with how the industry/business side of music takes advantage of young bands looking for the big time.

A question about the female protagonist.

Is it possible that her diet consists exclusively of eating vaginas? I don't want to be forced to romance men or interact sexually with them when I play with her. Not much my thing.

And if this is possible, that none of the protagonists share love interests. That each one has their own, or we can choose who they are for whom.

As of right now, there's at least two lesbian endings/routes planned. That being said, I try to make everything completely avoidable as everyone doesn't enjoy the same things.

I have a question though, since there will be 2 protags and they are both in the same band, will they end up being together?
I know the harem aspect will mostly be a Logan thing, buuut a big happy band family with Logan, Rainn and Reagan could be awesome.... sans Jason though, we can get rid of Jason. >.>;;

They will ending up being together in the 'regular' ending, and in the harem ending. May also be present in a couple three-way endings, as well.

I’m sure it’ll lead to her getting blackmailed and doing some random

Pretty major spoiler below. Read if you'd like.

No blackmail. There's some coercion elements later on, but again, avoidable. The 'sticky' situation mentioned is the female protagonist having a few too many to drink and get her drink drugged. Two guys 'offer help' and try to take her somewhere private where the obvious will be attempted (won't be shown). The male protagonist will have the option to stop it or let her be. A choice that will dictate many of the endings.

 

[Walter Victor]

In this episode, 3 characters get to make meaningful decisions (those which have more than a single choice): Rainn, Logan, and Luke. Rainn and Logan are the only characters whose names can be changed in the game, which are designated as player_name and player_name2, respectively. Rainn, though, is the one whose sayer_name is MC in the script. Just FYI.

 

[MissFortune]

All right, after reading the criticisms of those who don't like the whole multiple protagonist thing, I think this needs to be said.

I'm going to write We Were Just Kids how it's already been written. I think multiple protagonists is probably a vague tag here, because it's not first person any said character. It's been, so far, written in third person omniscient. An all seeing eye with a camera that's able to pick up on the thoughts of the characters it's around. The ending of this first release was a bit of a hint for something bigger coming, and there's no way writing from a first person POV would say that's coming at all. There's pieces of a puzzle that are better known so the viewer/players left in the dark.

While it might seem like there's a lot of jumping around right now, it'll even itself out as the music part of the story starts picking up. Luke isn't so much a protagonist (hence not offering the choice of a name), which I admittedly made him seem like by giving a choice for sex, as he is a vital part of the story that connects him with both the female protagonist and the ending of the first release.. Luke will show up every now and then, but he won't play a bigger part until later in the storyline. I just wanted to establish the connection in this release.

I get the whole 'stigma' of multiple protagonists and switching viewpoints. There's a lot out there that just use it to add extra runtime to any given scene/chapter by retelling the same things from a female or male point of view with varying thoughts. But with a third-person point of view, I have the room to supply important details that would otherwise have to be forced in via information dumping. As I mentioned at the end, I know there's a good bit of jumping around, but that's because characters and events are being introduced. I also get the self-insertion (giggity) of the player in single-pov games, but I'm not changing the writing style of something I almost halfway done writing.

As mentioned, the main two protagonists will be together far more often as the music part of the storyline comes into place. The same applies to the introduced characters. They are all coming to a nucleus that centers around the main two protagonists/the band. This will result in far less head-hopping between different people/locations as everything starts becoming more centralized.

For those that enjoyed this first release, thanks for playing. For those who didn't, thanks for trying it out. There's a lot of constructive criticism I'm seeing in here and it's very much appreciated. Hopefully each release gets better than the last.

 

[Walter Victor]

All right, after reading the criticisms of those who don't like the whole multiple protagonist thing, I think this needs to be said.

I'm going to write We Were Just Kids how it's already been written. I think multiple protagonists is probably a vague tag here, because it's not first person any said character. It's been, so far, written in third person omniscient. An all seeing eye with a camera that's able to pick up on the thoughts of the characters it's around. The ending of this first release was a bit of a hint for something bigger coming, and there's no way writing from a first person POV would say that's coming at all. There's pieces of a puzzle that are better known so the viewer/players left in the dark.

While it might seem like there's a lot of jumping around right now, it'll even itself out as the music part of the story starts picking up. Luke isn't so much a protagonist (hence not offering the choice of a name), which I admittedly made him seem like by giving a choice for sex, as he is a vital part of the story that connects him with both the female protagonist and the ending of the first release.. Luke will show up every now and then, but he won't play a bigger part until later in the storyline. I just wanted to establish the connection in this release.

I get the whole 'stigma' of multiple protagonists and switching viewpoints. There's a lot out there that just use it to add extra runtime to any given scene/chapter by retelling the same things from a female or male point of view with varying thoughts. But with a third-person point of view, I have the room to supply important details that would otherwise have to be forced in via information dumping. As I mentioned at the end, I know there's a good bit of jumping around, but that's because characters and events are being introduced. I also get the self-insertion (giggity) of the player in single-pov games, but I'm not changing the writing style of something I almost halfway done writing.

As mentioned, the main two protagonists will be together far more often as the music part of the storyline comes into place. The same applies to the introduced characters. They are all coming to a nucleus that centers around the main two protagonists/the band. This will result in far less head-hopping between different people/locations as everything starts becoming more centralized.

For those that enjoyed this first release, thanks for playing. For those who didn't, thanks for trying it out. There's a lot of constructive criticism I'm seeing in here and it's very much appreciated. Hopefully each release gets better than the last.

Please do not change your game to placate the naysayers. It seems unique in its format, and in a world of games where imagination seems limited, unique should at least be given a chance. Good luck with your project.

 

[FightmeLaiLai]

All right, after reading the criticisms of those who don't like the whole multiple protagonist thing, I think this needs to be said.

I'm going to write We Were Just Kids how it's already been written. I think multiple protagonists is probably a vague tag here, because it's not first person any said character. It's been, so far, written in third person omniscient. An all seeing eye with a camera that's able to pick up on the thoughts of the characters it's around. The ending of this first release was a bit of a hint for something bigger coming, and there's no way writing from a first person POV would say that's coming at all. There's pieces of a puzzle that are better known so the viewer/players left in the dark.

While it might seem like there's a lot of jumping around right now, it'll even itself out as the music part of the story starts picking up. Luke isn't so much a protagonist (hence not offering the choice of a name), which I admittedly made him seem like by giving a choice for sex, as he is a vital part of the story that connects him with both the female protagonist and the ending of the first release.. Luke will show up every now and then, but he won't play a bigger part until later in the storyline. I just wanted to establish the connection in this release.

I get the whole 'stigma' of multiple protagonists and switching viewpoints. There's a lot out there that just use it to add extra runtime to any given scene/chapter by retelling the same things from a female or male point of view with varying thoughts. But with a third-person point of view, I have the room to supply important details that would otherwise have to be forced in via information dumping. As I mentioned at the end, I know there's a good bit of jumping around, but that's because characters and events are being introduced. I also get the self-insertion (giggity) of the player in single-pov games, but I'm not changing the writing style of something I almost halfway done writing.

As mentioned, the main two protagonists will be together far more often as the music part of the storyline comes into place. The same applies to the introduced characters. They are all coming to a nucleus that centers around the main two protagonists/the band. This will result in far less head-hopping between different people/locations as everything starts becoming more centralized.

For those that enjoyed this first release, thanks for playing. For those who didn't, thanks for trying it out. There's a lot of constructive criticism I'm seeing in here and it's very much appreciated. Hopefully each release gets better than the last.

I think the biggest pitfall that could happen would be the developer trying to please too many people. I mean it kind of already started based on previous questions - Dark theme, NTR/avoidable, Lesbian, harem etc

Of course , there is nothing wrong with attempting to have a bigger choice of freedom for players in a 3rd person story mode game. In fact, the more the better. I am just merely reminding more choices equal more resources eating into your personal time and release dates when its just a side gig for now. Its not so bad if you dont care too much abt patreon members but if it matters to you, you may get burned with the constant ambush of keyboard warriors (esp from non patreons) - "Its been 4 months late , DELAY, scammer " etc etc

Its important to have clear vision , healthy mind set and of course having fun. All the best

 

[Walter Victor]

"Its been 4 months late , DELAY, scammer " etc etc

You forgot "MILKER!" Non-Patrons always love to throw that one at the developer.

 

[Wicked Garden]

Alright I thought about it and I have a question.

If this game featured one Mc, and the story still revolved around him, but he didn't dominate every scene, which still allows the Dev to still tell the stories of the other characters, would that work or is it more of the same?

 

[Tragic Princess]

Alright I thought about it and I have a question.

If this game featured one Mc, and the story still revolved around him, but he didn't dominate every scene, which still allows the Dev to still tell the stories of the other characters, would that work or is it more of the same?

IDK because AOA kinda has that going for them, letting you learn about all of the cast of girls. This game isn't that though, which is fine for me. The Dev should tell their story, their way and we can either play it or skip it.

 

[dolfe67]

IDK because AOA kinda has that going for them, letting you learn about all of the cast of girls. This game isn't that though, which is fine for me. The Dev should tell their story, their way and we can either play it or skip it.

Yes a lot of games follow characters at times without the MC present, but you don't make choices for them.

I agree devs should tell their story as they want, even if they have low support for months (not every games attract lots of people). We need different visions outside of mainstream ones.

That said I'm not keen on multiple protag either, especially if they have a love interest in each other.

Good luck to the dev though.

 

[NateGrey]

Well, I must say I very much liked this so far! Interesting start with the story and some sex scenes already. I have no problem at all with multiple protagonists, as long as it's done right and doesn't become too chaotic (Our Red String does a pretty good job). If there is the option I usually let the protagonists be together while being a total slut/manwhore on the side. So far it looks like I'm gonna enjoy this one on that front

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

So, I gave this a try and while I like the story, there are aspects of the game I can do without. Playing as Luke is one of them. Felt more like he's the main male MC and not Logan. I'd rather not have to play him(Luke) at all. I understand that you need to tell this story and I'm not telling you how to write. Just expressing my thoughts.

As others have said, going back and forth between the chars is a bit jarring. but, it wasn't unexpected with multi-protags. Adding in Luke made it feel so much worse. I think Logan needs a bit more time in the story, so we can get a feel for him. As for now, he feels like a self centered asshole. Granted he is going through some shit, but, from what I've seen, he caused it himself.

As for Rainn, she seems like she's broken. But, trying her hardest to hide the fact. From what we've learned about her, she uses anger and music to try and stay sane.

Anyway, can't wait to see what happens next. This story has a lot of potential, MissFortune I'll be sticking around for awhile.

 

[BadmanBaxter]

If you are looking at a game like this and think about various scandals I have to ask if characters being raped or blackmailed for sex is planned. Random example a manager gets rainn addicted to drugs and will only help her get them if she fucks him.

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

If you are looking at a game like this and think about various scandals I have to ask if characters being raped or blackmailed for sex is planned. Random example a manager gets rainn addicted to drugs and will only help her get them if she fucks him.

I hope the fuck not. That will totally destroy the game.

 

[landsknetch]

Interest perspective with different characters

 

[Hordragg]

Hello everyone. It is strange for me that developers for RenPy games do not always use the webp format for images. The size of the archives would be much smaller. Or is there any problem with this?

Well, the initial question should be rephrased to asking why some developers tend to distribute lossless compressed images (png) instead of lossy compressed ones (jpeg, webp), but to answer the question posed: there isn't a problem with webp per se, but it's not the optimal choice in every case. The size difference between mozjpeg (the only jpeg encoder to be taken seriously) and webp is negligible and only depends on the amount of small details in a scene; the more of it the better fares mozjepg. The renders of this title are very clean often showing small details on skin, hair, fabrics, or tiles, and perfectly showcasing this point:

    1,1 GiB [###########] /input                                                
   84,2 MiB [           ] /out_webp
   75,7 MiB [           ] /out_jpeg

The above is the output of

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which strives to compress to jepg quality of roughly 85 based on structural similarity. Do take note the webp conversion happens -jpeg_like (see

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) and NOT according to cwebp's default quality settings (with it's default of 80 mapping to a jpeg quality setting of

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).

Spoiler: comparison shot

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Both lossy compressions loose details over the lossless compression (noticeable on her cheek and shoulder). But despite being the smaller of the two jpeg hasn't lost as many as webp did. Granted, jpeg is missing an alpha channel so it's of little use for titles heavily employing shapes, but for a title consisting of very clean full-scene renders like this one, it's often the better choice. (And it's still possible to convert the ones using transparency – intro, credits, hovered buttons, in this case – to webp as Ren'Py is happily showing either format.)

I'm trying to figure out XnConvert and what gives the best quality-size ratio. Maybe it's just me being finnicky as the dev noticing issues crop up that most wont notice, but I can't really seem to find the right mix. Should have it down by the next release, though.

Don't obsees over it too much. The ones nerdy enough to go around scrutinizing the details in your renders at zoom levels of two hundred percent and above are few and far between.

The renders are looking spectacular and the premise of the game very promising. I'll surely give it a go sometime in the coming days. All the best and keep it up!