Ren'Py Abandoned What a Legend! [v0.6.04] [MagicNuts]

[Fantaldebert]

But it moved backwards. Those new tasks got added to the "Edit" bar once the initially planned content was done and they could properly test it and feel that this final part was just not working. [...]

This is the perfect demonstration that Progess Reports means nothing and that the fandone is doing all the work. There is no logical link between the 3 images you posted but you managed to construct a sequitur to create sense between all of them and (miraculously) prove that progress is happening.

That's not a small feat. It's on par with finding meaning in the leaves at the bottom of a cup. In the entrails of a dead bird. In the cracks of a burnt sheep scapula.

I'm not blaming you. But it's fun to see this constant debate here with Abandonist claiming their arguments are based on time (but mostly on rage) and WaList claiming their arguments are based on the progress bar (but mostly on hope).
Both are dancing on quicksand with no solid base for their squables but one could question their motives.
Of course, WaLists want to see the game succeed, get a new chapter and play it.
But what is the goal of Abandonists ? To see the game fail ? To *protect* WaLists from themselves ? To watch the world burn ?

 

[moskyx]

This is the perfect demonstration that Progess Reports means nothing and that the fandone is doing all the work. There is no logical link between the 3 images you posted but you managed to construct a sequitur to create sense between all of them and (miraculously) prove that progress is happening.

That's not a small feat. It's on par with finding meaning in the leaves at the bottom of a cup. In the entrails of a dead bird. In the cracks of a burnt sheep scapula.

I'm not blaming you. But it's fun to see this constant debate here with Abandonist claiming their arguments are based on time (but mostly on rage) and WaList claiming their arguments are based on the progress bar (but mostly on hope).
Both are dancing on quicksand with no solid base for their squables but one could question their motives.
Of course, WaLists want to see the game succeed, get a new chapter and play it.
But what is the goal of Abandonists ? To see the game fail ? To *protect* WaLists from themselves ? To watch the world burn ?

How's not any logical link between the 3 charts? The first one shows the planned content being almost done; then, as always, they spent a few days testing the whole game and found several bugs and other things they think they should fix by editing (or redoing) their past work so that it reflects what they wanted to offer and keeps the game's high quality standards, and they tell their followers (both in the tracker and in written reports) so that we can adjust our expectations; finally, they keep updating their chart daily to show the progress made on those new tasks. As I always say, you are free to not believe what they say, but I dare you to find any real inconsistence in their discourse.

So, speking for myself, my arguments are based on hope, sure, but also (and I'd say most importantly) on the trust built in the past updates. It has always been this way, as the progress tracker have been working like this since 0.2, and they've always delivered, with their words (and the final result) always matching those numbers and their evolution (in fact, they tend to underpromise and overdeliver). Why should I stop believing they are stating the truth of their work? Only if (and when) the actual update doesn't rationally fit their reports, or there's an obvious flaw on them, I'll start thinking otherwise. But other people just don't take the time nor the effort to understand how the progress tracker works, or simply have been burned by other devs they trusted in the past, or maybe even project their own views on what they'd do if they could earn 7k per month by working on their pet project with their significant one, and choose to not take into account these devs actual past behavior and take the easy route of calling them milkers and liars, even if they will never been able to prove their accusations. And sometimes they are here just for the lulz and find their fun on messing with me and other fans or on plainly insulting devs and patrons, as this ensures them a bunch of backing reactions from fellow haters. Pick your poison.

 

[fusibile87]

But it moved backwards. Those new tasks got added to the "Edit" bar once the initially planned content was done and they could properly test it and feel that this final part was just not working. This is the last progress tracker from the 'creation' phase:
View attachment 3654009

And this was the next one, 5 days later. As you can see, the edit bar went up from 507 total tasks to 556, and these 50 new tasks include that last scene they weren't happy with.
View attachment 3654020

And it's still going 'backwards' if you want to think about it that way, as now there are 565 edit tasks planned, and probably even some more will still be added before the release. But there has been an actual net progress of 33 edit tasks completed in this last month (42 actually done minus 9 new tasks added). Again, everything matches dev's words, as he claimed they'd want to focus on those edits in May and then, in June, he would focus on "bugs", hoping for the whole thing to be ready for external testers and then released by the end of June - if they're happy enough with the result.
View attachment 3654053

Yeah this is totally bullshit. 99,8%? Meanwhile the update won't come out for 2 months at least. This 99,8% is fake and they keep faking it. This should be like 90-92%.

 

[DemiMaximoff]

Progress bar, by nature, is a flawed system if used to measure anything that's not perfectly quantifiable. Suppose your homework is to draw 4 things: 3 humans and a cow. You may say the cow constitutes 25% of the work. But you've never drawn a cow before and it takes thrice as much time and effort to draw it than a human. On top of that, imagine you're the type of student who decides mid-homework that drawing a few more humans and cows would make your homework better.

 

[moskyx]

Yeah this is totally bullshit. 99,8%? Meanwhile the update won't come out for 2 months at least. This 99,8% is fake and they keep faking it. This should be like 90-92%.

I explained it the other day, but I don't mind to repeat myself since you guys don't hesitate on repeating yourselves either. There's an initially planned content, which is labeled as different art, writing, coding and posing tasks. Let's call those tasks 'content-related tasks'. While creating that content, they often find minor issues that they put under the edit and bug bars (which we could call 'polishing tasks'), and they may even consider that new content-related tasks are needed to better reflect their actual work according to their initial plan. And, once that planned content is finally done, they replay the game and evaluate if this content is good enough for them to release it. That's the 'polishing phase', and any changes they think are still needed go to the edit and debug bars, which is why those polishing tasks increased greatly last month. And this has been like that since 0.2, as anyone following the game since then could attest.

So, for this update, the initially planned content is basically done at 99.8%, and now they are in the process of editing and polishing it -if you prefer to think the update it's 90% ready, as that's the polishing tasks completion %, it wouldn't be an unfair guess, always taking into account that this % is moving faster but it's also still subject to change If new tasks are deemed as neccessary. But just forget about %, as I get it takes some faith to believe they reflect some actual work no one can really see, and let's focus on their written reports: a lot of dialogues need to be shortened, a whole scene needs to be redone, and earlier this month the dev said he hoped this update could be ready sometime in June, fingers crossed, if they are satisfied enough with the results. So we'll see.

Now, not believing this won't make it bullshit, no matter how many times people repeat that.

 

[BabayMonsta]

Its funny how progress bars and checklists are able to manipulate people so easily. I believe first popularized by "Summertime Saga" and "Milfy City" now an inescapable disease in this genre. Its an obvious ruse to make people see fake development to appease and milk them for all their worth. If and when the update comes its obvious the size wont excuse the time it took. And yet they still hope when the next progress tracker starts to get percent added.

 

[fusibile87]

I explained it the other day, but I don't mind to repeat myself since you guys don't hesitate on repeating yourselves either. There's an initially planned content, which is labeled as different art, writing, coding and posing tasks. Let's call those tasks 'content-related tasks'. While creating that content, they often find minor issues that they put under the edit and bug bars (which we could call 'polishing tasks'), and they may even consider that new content-related tasks are needed to better reflect their actual work according to their initial plan. And, once that planned content is finally done, they replay the game and evaluate if this content is good enough for them to release it. That's the 'polishing phase', and any changes they think are still needed go to the edit and debug bars, which is why those polishing tasks increased greatly last month. And this has been like that since 0.2, as anyone following the game since then could attest.

So, for this update, the initially planned content is basically done at 99.8%, and now they are in the process of editing and polishing it -if you prefer to think the update it's 90% ready, as that's the polishing tasks completion %, it wouldn't be an unfair guess, always taking into account that this % is moving faster but it's also still subject to change If new tasks are deemed as neccessary. But just forget about %, as I get it takes some faith to believe they reflect some actual work no one can really see, and let's focus on their written reports: a lot of dialogues need to be shortened, a whole scene needs to be redone, and earlier this month the dev said he hoped this update could be ready sometime in June, fingers crossed, if they are satisfied enough with the results. So we'll see.

Now, not believing this won't make it bullshit, no matter how many times people repeat that.

If they don't adjust the % meter, it's scamming and lying. They can't say "it's 99% ready" if 1/10 (or more) of the work still need to be done.
Even if they are at 99% of the initial planning, they now know that planning was flawed and should update the metrics according to that. Instead they like the keep the illusion that the update is almost ready.

 

[moskyx]

If they don't adjust the % meter, it's scamming and lying. They can't say "it's 99% ready" if 1/10 (or more) of the work still need to be done.
Even if they are at 99% of the initial planning, they now know that planning was flawed and should update the metrics according to that. Instead they like the keep the illusion that the update is almost ready.

But it's been explained since v0.2 that the next update won't be released until both content and polishing bars reach 100%. And for 5 updates in a row we have witnessed the same procedure (a procedure that has also been explained several times to anyone willing to listen): after completing the content-related tasks, devs take a few days for 'betatesting' the whole thing, and then come back with a bunch of new polishing tasks that need to be done before the actual release.

In this case, one day they were at 99% of planned content and at 94% of polishing. After that internal betatesting period, polishing went back to 84% precisely because they played the whole game and realized their initial planning (or the execution of that planning) was flawed. That's updating the metrics as you are demanding. People who were hoping to play the update 2 weeks or so after content bars reached that 99% were instantly told they should wait longer because there were still more work to do. If that's too much for some patrons, they just need to click unsubscribe because now they know for sure that the update won't be released as soon as they were expecting. And it's the devs who explicitly told them.

Now, if you are suggesting devs should be betatesting the game earlier, adding those fixes to the content related tasks instead so that they grow slower, and simply get rid of the polishing bars, I don't see what's the actual benefit of that change when new testings will still make the bars to move backwards, but it's a constructive suggestion. If you'd prefer not having a detailed chart like this because there's no way of knowing if those numbers reflect any truth, the alternative is getting just some vague written reports telling us 'everything is progressing as planned, the update is a little bit closer' with no real way to even estimate the actual development pace and roughly project a release date -unless devs say something like 'we are now at 70% of the planned content', and at that point they could just go with the progress tracker anyway. I'd say that actual and potential patrons appreciate getting some more info, if only to try and find any inconsistences that could point at some wrongdoing -spoiler: so far, everything fits the explanations given.

 

[Badjourasmix]

Damn I completely forgot about this game. What happened? The game was pretty good from what I remember why did the dev abandon it? Their patreon seems to be doing well but it has been almost 2 years since the last update.

 

[Kisama33]

Damn I completely forgot about this game. What happened? The game was pretty good from what I remember why did the dev abandon it? Their patreon seems to be doing well but it has been almost 2 years since the last update.

It's marked as abandoned because of the rules related to "status tagging", technically the game is still being worked on.

 

[Badjourasmix]

It's marked as abandoned because of the rules related to "status tagging", technically the game is still being worked on.

Oh ok, but still, almost 2 years since the last update is kind of crazy. Is the dev doing some sort of remake/rework or is he just working on new content?

 

[Kisama33]

Oh ok, but still, almost 2 years since the last update is kind of crazy. Is the dev doing some sort of remake/rework or is he just working on new content?

Well people have a lot of theories, milking, scam, irl issues relative to devs health and the new born child to take care of (these ones may or not be real), development hell, excessive perfectionism or simple because the devs keep telling that this new update will be the biggest one yet, it can also be a mix of some or even all of them right now I really don't think that people can do anything other than wait and see.

 

[Deleted member 6923157]

updating an arbitrary number means fuck all and that's what those "updates" usually consist of, also the last update that actually introduced new content was released 22 months ago.

Some updates are just 15 seconds extra every month, recalling some 'guilty pleasure' of mine. This is a new chapter.

Still looking forward to the next installment, and I would actually prefer to that new chapter in 2 parts. But then if they think something doesn't fit, they have to go back change it, and we get the usually group of people complaining about their save games again...

Can't make everybody happy...

 

[Xupuzulla]

Its funny how progress bars and checklists are able to manipulate people so easily. I believe first popularized by "Summertime Saga" and "Milfy City" now an inescapable disease in this genre. Its an obvious ruse to make people see fake development to appease and milk them for all their worth. If and when the update comes its obvious the size wont excuse the time it took. And yet they still hope when the next progress tracker starts to get percent added.

Two months to fix bugs in a rempy game " But the progress is moving,what are you talking about ".
Is actually insane what is happening in here.

 

[moskyx]

Two months to fix bugs in a rempy game " But the progress is moving,what are you talking about ".
Is actually insane what is happening in here.

Especially with these people who keep insisting devs are doing bugfixing despite all the available info telling otherwise...

 

[massifteetees]

why did the dev abandon it?

Their patreon seems to be doing well but it has been almost 2 years

You answered your own question lol. Why end the game or get anywhere closer to ending the story when you make so much every month? Truthfully, we don't know if they actually abandoned it in the fullest sense. But after 2 years of dangling the carrots, those with common sense get the idea that they're stringing players along at this point.

Don't worry, it is not abandoned. It will be updated in 2-3 months from today. If it is not updated by then, well it wil be updated in 2-3 months after that. If not updated in 2024, it will be updated in 2-3 months in early 2025. If not by then, maybe 2-3 months after that, and so on. Name the time, whenever it is, the game will be updated 2-3 months after that time. Just ask our friendly thread PR guys and their shiny Progress Tracker!

 

[Sthr ▚ nix]

I dunno why. But not like many times before. I have even lost any interest to doing the reign of Polishmen later on.

 

[Mordikay]

I just come into this thread every other week for the fun of it and study the social behavior of pay pigs.

 

[kinkai]

Ok how many bugs are left?

 

[user115637]

I just come into this thread every other week for the fun of it and study the social behavior of pay pigs.

Based. What your findings are, so far? Have you got enough material to publish an article about it?

How do you know who pays and who does not, in the first place?

What a shame, it all started so nicely with this game. It seems that the common strategy nowadays is to get people hooked subscribed and then to make them forget they subscribed - by real activity at first and then by a fake activity later, by promises. All in order to get an easy passive income from all these crowdfunding platforms.