ProfN42

Member
Feb 16, 2022
102
188
Given that ONLY Elfes have magical powers in this universe the thought is pretty much naught.
Wait, where was that stated? I must have missed it!
I mean they could just limit it to kinky outfits leading to a special sex scene instead of wear it all day outfits
That would be fine too. Ie a swimsuit leads to a "beach date" event, a santa suit for a "holiday nookie" event. Things like that. You could have costumes be rewarded by plot events, crafted based on patterns, or hidden in game screens like the sheep's photos.
 

Evangelion-01

Devoted Member
Apr 12, 2018
10,621
7,145
Wait, where was that stated? I must have missed it!

That would be fine too. Ie a swimsuit leads to a "beach date" event, a santa suit for a "holiday nookie" event. Things like that. You could have costumes be rewarded by plot events, crafted based on patterns, or hidden in game screens like the sheep's photos.
For starters none of the none Elves have magical abilities... OK except Demons maybe
plus I am pretty sure this explanation was given by the old King... which is also the reason MC will die young
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
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What annoys me more is the huge worldmap is so exciting and promises the idea of a sprawling adventure with many places to go and we wind up spending almost all of it in a few locations in one town and its adjoining village and woods. With the exception of Rose's storyline we never get to see any of the rest of the world. So that big worldmap feels like a tease.

So does all the stuff with King Sev and the statues of magical women in his study. Will we ever actually learn another magical ability from a lady post-Lana? Devs are being *very* tight lipped about this and my guess is they're realizing they bit off more than they can chew from a programming perspective (possibly more than Ren'Py is even capable of? idk I'm not a coder). After all, if you have multiple magical abilities that unlock from completing different girls' routes, but you still make it possible to skip girls or do their routes in different orders, then you now have to account for different mixes of abilities being "active" on different screens of the game. Ie., let's imagine Lana lets you see ghosts, Madelyn lets you hear people's thoughts, Maple lets you shrink down to fairy size, and Gomira makes you indestructible. The solution to a puzzle is to overhear a guard thinking about how he lost the key to a cell down a furnace grate, then you shrink down to get inside, have to be invulnerable to get past the fires, then navigate a maze using only clues that a ghost of a dead prisoner helpfully gives you. To do this sequence though the game needs to account for what to do if you arrive at the puzzle with ANY possible mixture of these abilities "on" or "off". Ie., you can get as far as shrinking down and getting through the grate but you never fucked Gomira so you're not indestructible and can't pass the flames; the game needs to be able to handle this outcome. So if there are seven girls with abilities to learn that's 7^2 or 49 possible combinations of abilities Lassie might have on any screen of the game. Their response has basically been to drop the "magical abilities from fucking" idea like a rock and not mention it once ever since. (note: there is a way to reduce the complexity here by using a "hub" level design with some girls's routes only "unlocking" after moving the main story along a notch, but devs have so far stuck to their guns that any girl's route can be pursued as soon as you meet her & without completing the main quest.)
The worldmap is huge, sure. But devs said several times (like here, back in 2020 when the project started) that only the New Capital would be as detailed as the Old Capital is; the rest of the locations will only include a few visitable areas as we saw in Cin Town (we only visited Raventrove there, but there are only 3 more locations we'll visit briefly for other quests). Some of the Old Capital's minor sub-locations (and probably some others out of the city too) will be unlocked in Gomira's quest and won't be visited again for story-related reasons (players will still be able to go there and admire the landscapes or whatever, but that's it). Festives Islands were meant to be visited at some point and then used to host some special-themed content like Christmas or Halloween extra updates, although this initial plan surely seems a bit unrealistic at this point. The statues at Sev's basement do show all the races existing in the world, and it seems fair to assume the MC will be able to fuck them all, but all that it's actually left is some mermaids and angels (we've been intimate with humans, elves, pixies, demons, and orcresses -well, not yet, but still).

Only certain magical powers (aka Gifts) can be acquired by fucking very specific girls: those who are Gift-carriers, like Lana, Madeline, and Serena (this is actually explained in-game during convos with Serena and Sev). Maple is just a regular pixie with ordinary pixie magic which works like a curse, not a Gift, so the MC won't be able to shrink himself at will; and Gomira has no magic at all, she's just an average orc. Devs are not that tight-lipped about these powers the MC will eventually get: they have stated several times that there are some more Gifted girls but none of them have been introduced yet, and that those Gifted girls will only be fucked sequentially during the main story segments - so the MC won't be learning Gifts from side-quest chicks, if only to make the main story somewhat coherent.

Of course, having or not those Gifts will change some side quests. We've already seen how having the ghost-eye can alter Myrtle's quest a bit (when Rose contacts her dead husband, a couple of pics and dialog lines change if the MC has already 'learned' that gift from Lana). But it's basically the same with any other colliding side quests. For instance, you can't steal Myrtle's clothes you need for the main quest if she's staying home because she's been attacked by the wolf in her quest, and her reaction when you finally steal it is very different if you've already completed her quest. Or, if you're looking for some advice on how to heal a pixie but Serena's gone missing, you can ask Sev instead. Some random convos also change depending on whether the MC has already met Lord Hammerdick or not, and things like that. There are many more examples of this, and it sure takes time to adjust every little detail. Which is what this polishing (and debugging) phase is for.

The 'hub' you mention is already in place: you can't actually start Rose's quest unless the MC has gone to the dungeon and came back, met Celestina, and paid at least one glue to Rose; and we won't be able to start Gomira's quest unless we've learned her name (at least) during Lana's main story arc. So this statement - 'devs have so far stuck to their guns that any girl's route can be pursued as soon as you meet her' it's not accurate at all.
 

DemiMaximoff

Member
Jun 10, 2018
105
467
Remember when people were taking bullet for the devs, all because they put out these progress reports? No other dev is so transparent about their progress, they said. Look where that got us, they are now doing whole ass new drawings, while claiming that they are only polishing and debugging in the progress tracker.
 

wd1111

Active Member
Sep 26, 2021
529
6,754
Remember when people were taking bullet for the devs, all because they put out these progress reports? No other dev is so transparent about their progress, they said. Look where that got us, they are now doing whole ass new drawings, while claiming that they are only polishing and debugging in the progress tracker.
you no understand maan, they perfectionists, this is a debugged version of the previos art that is going to be polished to a state it starts to emit light, not just merely reflect stray photons....
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,061
13,257
Remember when people were taking bullet for the devs, all because they put out these progress reports? No other dev is so transparent about their progress, they said. Look where that got us, they are now doing whole ass new drawings, while claiming that they are only polishing and debugging in the progress tracker.
Erm... Doing new drawings has always been a part of the polishing work. And yes, it's still hard to be any more transparent than these devs. They show how much they are earning, they show how much work they've done every day, and they say what they'll be focusing next on a weekly basis. As always, not believing them doesn't mean they are lying.

For those claiming that they are taking these months of 'polishing' to do all the work they didn't do in the past, what would be the point of including this work under the 'edit' tag? It's actually counterproductive. They could just keep adding art or writing tasks as they go (as they are doing now adding new edit tasks), keeping the progress on the tracker's 'content' bars below 100%, and they'd be happier. Because once those bars reached 100%, people just assumed the update was around the corner (even though devs warned it would take more time than in previous updates), so every time the editing bar doesn't advance toward completion people feel even more frustrated because they now have higher expectations than before. Which can't be positive in any way for devs. No one in their sane mind is going to subscribe after 2 years since the last update, no matter how close the new update is claimed to be, and those still subscribed who were considering dropping their support won't feel exactly reassured by this extra long polishing phase. You can say that those in doubt may have unsubscribed for sure if the content bars weren't at 100% already, but if they were in doubt in April, trusted devs once more because they said they were polishing it, and now they see that 3 months later they are still polishing it, not only they'd unsubscribe anyway: chances are they wouldn't be coming back ever again because they'd do feel cheated even if they aren't. Because it's obvious that this long phase raises this kind of suspicion about devs doing their homework late and lying about it, which only makes them look worse in the eyes of potential subscribers even if it isn't actually true.

So why allow that when they could just admit they are still in the content creation phase, where people could only accuse them of being slow or lazy? Devs apparently never lied before, so why start now, and like this? Seriously, this theory is not very consistent when you actually think about it. Considering how their work on previous updates went, it seems more likely that devs have actually completed an alpha version they are not very happy with and they are now vastly improving it, and that's exactly what they are communicating. As always, feel free to not believe them, but this won't mean you are right.
 

Evangelion-01

Devoted Member
Apr 12, 2018
10,621
7,145
Erm... Doing new drawings has always been a part of the polishing work. And yes, it's still hard to be any more transparent than these devs. They show how much they are earning, they show how much work they've done every day, and they say what they'll be focusing next on a weekly basis. As always, not believing them doesn't mean they are lying.

For those claiming that they are taking these months of 'polishing' to do all the work they didn't do in the past, what would be the point of including this work under the 'edit' tag? It's actually counterproductive. They could just keep adding art or writing tasks as they go (as they are doing now adding new edit tasks), keeping the progress on the tracker's 'content' bars below 100%, and they'd be happier. Because once those bars reached 100%, people just assumed the update was around the corner (even though devs warned it would take more time than in previous updates), so every time the editing bar doesn't advance toward completion people feel even more frustrated because they now have higher expectations than before. Which can't be positive in any way for devs. No one in their sane mind is going to subscribe after 2 years since the last update, no matter how close the new update is claimed to be, and those still subscribed who were considering dropping their support won't feel exactly reassured by this extra long polishing phase. You can say that those in doubt may have unsubscribed for sure if the content bars weren't at 100% already, but if they were in doubt in April, trusted devs once more because they said they were polishing it, and now they see that 3 months later they are still polishing it, not only they'd unsubscribe anyway: chances are they wouldn't be coming back ever again because they'd do feel cheated even if they aren't. Because it's obvious that this long phase raises this kind of suspicion about devs doing their homework late and lying about it, which only makes them look worse in the eyes of potential subscribers even if it isn't actually true.

So why allow that when they could just admit they are still in the content creation phase, where people could only accuse them of being slow or lazy? Devs apparently never lied before, so why start now, and like this? Seriously, this theory is not very consistent when you actually think about it. Considering how their work on previous updates went, it seems more likely that devs have actually completed an alpha version they are not very happy with and they are now vastly improving it, and that's exactly what they are communicating. As always, feel free to not believe them, but this won't mean you are right.
Not trying to jump any band wagon... but they called the Update a site Character Update and now you say they said it would be the biggest Update as of yet?
Marely going by logic a site character shouldn't have more story than an actual main girl
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
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Not trying to jump any band wagon... but they called the Update a site Character Update and now you say they said it would be the biggest Update as of yet?
Marely going by logic a site character shouldn't have more story than an actual main girl
See, that's a legit point. Even more in this case, because when they actually started the development they knew they were going to have a baby soon and could have foreseen it was going to heavily impact their work (it was not their first child), so maybe it wasn't the right time for such an ambitious update as they originally envisioned for Gomira. It's true patrons voted for her at the start of 0.6 update though, and devs weren't expecting a baby back then, but looking back they should've toned things down a bit, at least.
 

Xupuzulla

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2022
1,548
5,093
See, that's a legit point. Even more in this case, because when they actually started the development they knew they were going to have a baby soon and could have foreseen it was going to heavily impact their work (it was not their first child), so maybe it wasn't the right time for such an ambitious update as they originally envisioned for Gomira. It's true patrons voted for her at the start of 0.6 update though, and devs weren't expecting a baby back then, but looking back they should've toned things down a bit, at least.
WOW this is the closest we are going to get with this guy almost admitting the devs fucked up and the Gomira big update was a terrible idea,especially with a baby coming.
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
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WOW this is the closest we are going to get with this guy almost admitting the devs fucked up and the Gomira big update was a terrible idea,especially with a baby coming.
I know it may be hard to believe given your mindset but you can think they are not always right and at the same time think they are honest devs. And it's their honesty what I am (and will be) defending on this thread as long as they don't prove me wrong. Which they haven't so far.
 

Rosswel

Newbie
Aug 11, 2017
55
140
At this point, the next update will have to be MASSIVE and absolutely bug free to justify this amount of developing time. I personally can still accept the excuse health issue and having baby was several months ago but now it's very hard to accept.

I'm curious on how much time they spend each day working on this game because the progress on polishing feels very slow. If I'm being very generous then It is still possible that the next update is so huge that there's enormous amount of stuff to polish hence the slow pace but if that is the case then the progress report don't really show that and the devs better be more transparent on how an item in that progress bar is.

With how it is presented now, it is unclear how big each item is. Take "code" as example. It could be several lines of code for an event which makes this work pace incredibly slow. It might also be thousands line of code for a whole side quest and if that the case a "code" or two per day could makes sense.
 

DemiMaximoff

Member
Jun 10, 2018
105
467
it's their honesty what I am (and will be) defending on this thread as long as they don't prove me wrong. Which they haven't so far.
One day these devs will break into your home and massacre your family. The next day, you will be on this forum explaining how your family might have deserved to die, and the devs did nothing wrong

What does the progress report say? Art 100%. What does their patreon sneak peak show? Drawing completely new pictures. Dishonesty, clear as day
 

Oriandu

Engaged Member
Sep 1, 2017
2,533
4,863
See, that's a legit point. Even more in this case, because when they actually started the development they knew they were going to have a baby soon and could have foreseen it was going to heavily impact their work (it was not their first child), so maybe it wasn't the right time for such an ambitious update as they originally envisioned for Gomira. It's true patrons voted for her at the start of 0.6 update though, and devs weren't expecting a baby back then, but looking back they should've toned things down a bit, at least.
I don't think toning things down would have kept this development cycle from literally being as long as the full development cycles of some video games are. The overall slow and inconsistent progress of the update tracker over the past two years leads me to one of two conclusions. First, they've started grifting and are purposefully taking their sweet ass time to try and earn as much as possible for as little work as possible. Second, the update started small and though a mix of inexperience and a lack of self control the scale for the update started to balloon out of control and as things got bigger and bigger they also became more disorganized and so they weren't able to work efficiently and anything that went wrong, such as coding issues as a whole, became a much larger issue.
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,061
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One day these devs will break into your home and massacre your family. The next day, you will be on this forum explaining how your family might have deserved to die, and the devs did nothing wrong

What does the progress report say? Art 100%. What does their patreon sneak peak show? Drawing completely new pictures. Dishonesty, clear as day
It also helps knowing how their workflow is. They plan, they do, they keep adding things until a point where they have a 'complete' build, then they start editing it. Which sometimes involves creating new artwork to replace the original. It's all in the faq in this very same thread OP.
How do you count edit tasks?
By edit we mean aspects that need to be improved or that we thought they would work but in testing we see that they don't, be it the writing, the posing, or the art. We edit the text all the time, and so every dialogue will have many edit tasks. The same is true with posing: sometimes, after seeing a scene, characters' expressions don't match the text or can be improved. Then there are art edits, which are often fixes or changes that Chestnut has to make after she's done with the game's main content.
Now, who's being dishonest here, these devs who explained at least 3 years ago how their workflow is, or those who simply don't care about those explanations and can't be bothered to read the available info before throwing their accusations?
 
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moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
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I don't think toning things down would have kept this development cycle from literally being as long as the full development cycles of some video games are. The overall slow and inconsistent progress of the update tracker over the past two years leads me to one of two conclusions. First, they've started grifting and are purposefully taking their sweet ass time to try and earn as much as possible for as little work as possible. Second, the update started small and though a mix of inexperience and a lack of self control the scale for the update started to balloon out of control and as things got bigger and bigger they also became more disorganized and so they weren't able to work efficiently and anything that went wrong, such as coding issues as a whole, became a much larger issue.
I'll just quote the dev on this (he posted this on Discord, on July 2nd):
I think I started this update with a wrong mindset as well. We had two quests in mind that we really liked and we went for them, without considering their complexity (I thought having fewer quests, i.e. 2 instead of our usual side-story's 3 would be sufficient in speeding things up)
In the future, if a story we really want to tell takes this long, we will break it up into multiple releases (that's what we will do, probably, with the next part of the main story)
Then for our previous updates we didn't have a baby/now-toddler. for every update, about halfway through dev period (sometimes sooner) we used to go crunch mode, and stop taking weekends off and work as many hours a day as it was possible. for 0.7, all of that time has been taken up by our child. some things that I would do before in say 2 days, now take double the time. Come this September she will go to nursery (we have signed up and are on waiting lists), and that should allow us to have more focused work time as well, because right now by the time we start work, we're so tired from babysitting that our work gets impacted
So yeah, your second conclusion seems kind of right, with this situation taking its toll on the quality of their work and leading them to major editing work after completing the initially planned content. As always, once the update is out we would be able to judge if this was such a complex quest or not. And then, when they focus on the next update, without the baby issues and with their lessons learned, we'll see if things go back to the previous normalcy and your first conclusion can be definitely ruled out.
 
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