Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.03] [MagicNuts]

[harem.king]

Asking pirates to work is like asking a drug addict to come up clean.

You have consumed too much megacorp propaganda from some of the world's evilest megacorps.
As GabeN says, piracy is a service problem.

 

[Gregor909]

Just look at the fire extinguisher again

 

[Conrad-N7]

You have consumed too much megacorp propaganda from some of the world's evilest megacorps.
As GabeN says, piracy is a service problem.

pretty much so, in a nutshell

 

[Porn_Jesus]

Yet that's exactly how it works. The tag is put manually by a mod when the thread meets the criteria in the rules.

Does that mean it's automatically a job well done? Makes you wonder why so many people see the abandoned topic with very mixed opinions.

 

[DemiMaximoff]

Does that mean it's automatically a job well done? Makes you wonder why so many people see the abandoned topic with very mixed opinions.

It's deserved. They did abandon the game, for a while. There was no work put in it during the child and hip surgery. That's why it's been more than 18 months without a release. Such long time between release happens when someone abandons the project.

"But there's the on-hold tag for that"

Yes, and if they announced that they were on-hold when their problems started, the tag could be used, and then removed when they were back. They didn't, that's why the time crossed 18 months. So the tag did what it is supposed to do.

 

[harem.king]

It's deserved. They did abandon the game, for a while. There was no work put in it during the child and hip surgery. That's why it's been more than 18 months without a release. Such long time between release happens when someone abandons the project.

"But there's the on-hold tag for that"

Yes, and if they announced that they were on-hold when their problems started, the tag could be used, and then removed when they were back. They didn't, that's why the time crossed 18 months. So the tag did what it is supposed to do.

Also, the adandoned tag will get removed the moment they make a new release.
It is very very rare, but it happens
It isn't a perfect system, but it works.

 

[Kisama33]

Does that mean it's automatically a job well done? Makes you wonder why so many people see the abandoned topic with very mixed opinions.

My experience with it (the abandoned tag) went from something useful, that let me know when there was no point in checking a thread again after I done everything I wanted with the game.

To something completely useless after I learned the different circumstances where it can be used (the abandoned tag) since the only utility I saw on it became irrelevant basically.

Now If I actually care for a thread I need to keep checking on it anyways even if it's tagged as abandoned.

So yeah, mixed opinions I guess.

"But there's the on-hold tag for that"

The "On-hold" tag have a time limit (6 months) so the game would end up with the "Abandoned" tag anyways, if they just asked for the "On-hold" tag right when the "problems" started this thread would had been marked as "Abandoned" much sooner than it did.

Also, the adandoned tag will get removed the moment they make a new release.

More like when someone "reports" that an update came out, otherwise the tag can remain no matter how many updates they release.

That happened in other thread I follow before, 3 updates released, one per month, and the tag only got removed when someone reported the post containing the 3rd update even when the previous two also got shared by the same member.

 

[harem.king]

More like when someone "reports" that an update came out, otherwise the tag can remain no matter how many updates they release.

and someone will. because there are a lot of people looking at things

 

[DegenDesu]

For all the shit they've gotten from people due to 'lack of content' NLT has been producing bi-weekly updates to games for basically half a decade. I support 3 devs and they're one of them.

Sorry if a bit off-topic, just saw this post you have and got curious about this dev called NLT, after searching it in F95, I found this game from NLT Media (I assume that's their complete dev name), I was very impressed by the 3D model (especially the girls) of their games, such as "The Genesis Order" I first saw in the search result.

Now I'm curious, who are the other two devs you support that does this bi-weekly updates alongside NLT Media?

***********

On-topic:

If I remember correctly, the devs of this game published a poll for their subscribers asking if they want frequent yet small updates or non-frequent large update per patch and the majority voted for the large non-frequent one, yes?

But I can't recall if they put some sort of "range" in the "large and non-frequent update" option (like a sort of "upper limit" or "maximum amount of months")... did they?

In any case, again, it's been a long time for this update. I wonder if they will do another poll regarding the update frequency after this patch releases, seeing the mess this whole thing has been because of that poll's results

 

[Kirel]

Sorry if a bit off-topic, just saw this post you have and got curious about this dev called NLT, after searching it in F95, I found this game from NLT Media (I assume that's their complete dev name), I was very impressed by the 3D model (especially the girls) of their games, such as "The Genesis Order" I first saw in the search result.

Now I'm curious, who are the other two devs you support that does this bi-weekly updates alongside NLT Media?

***********

On-topic:

If I remember correctly, the devs of this game published a poll for their subscribers asking if they want frequent yet small updates or non-frequent large update per patch and the majority voted for the large non-frequent one, yes?

But I can't recall if they put some sort of "range" in the "large and non-frequent update" option (like a sort of "upper limit" or "maximum amount of months")... did they?

In any case, again, it's been a long time for this update. I wonder if they will do another poll regarding the update frequency after this patch releases, seeing the mess this whole thing has been because of that poll's results

I don't recall there being much of a range mentioned during that poll, I believe the options were basically to release all of a character's stories in one update (i.e. the larger option) or to split things up further to get them out faster, but in smaller chunks. So for example, 0.6 probably would've been three updates, one for each "quest" in Rose's overall arc. I believe the devs have said that they are going to aim for smaller updates going forward, but they will still be complete arcs for each character. So Holly's story in 0.8 may only be two quests instead of three, as a result.

 

[tretch95]

Let's just hypothetically assume for a moment that the devs of this game really are a heterosexual couple, and they actually were delayed by having a baby together. Fair enough. I mean - it could theoretically be possible, right?


Any of you guys tried to do home office during Covid-19 with kids in the house?
Yes? No? Was it fun with the brats crawling over your PC desk because they were bored?


Well, with the current update cycle, the kid would be around 5-6 years old before the second next update is out.
At that time the kid will start asking questions, like why mommy and daddy only sit on their computer all day long, and only draw pictures of naked people showing their boobies and weenies. Aren't you supposed to hide that outside of the bathroom?
And it is gonna start talking about that to the other kids, and their parents.


So i can't really wait to read the patreon update:

"Sorry guys, our kid is going to school next year, we can only work on the game from 8pm to 1am so the updates are gonna take twice as long"

 

[DemiMaximoff]

The "On-hold" tag have a time limit (6 months) so the game would end up with the "Abandoned" tag anyways, if they just asked for the "On-hold" tag right when the "problems" started this thread would had been marked as "Abandoned" much sooner than it did.

That would have been an outcome that better reflects reality. A project that has not been worked on at all for six months is indeed abandoned. If the devs announced before that six month period that they were back at it again, their 18 month would have started anew. But they couldn't be so cut and dry with reporting their situation, hence their "unabandoning" isn't being given the grace period

 

[stalinsvempire]

Was it fun with the brats crawling over your PC desk because they were bored?

You're absolutely right. Children are different. To some of them you can give toys and they'll be busy and calm for hours, entertaining themselves. While the others will require constant attention, even in their sleep. And even if devs would have "just" one calm kid - it's enough problems to keep two adult busy. Raising children just getting harder with each year and this job won't stop at the age of 18. Even in a common case when a husband provides and a wife taking care of children, they'll have to rest and to switch once in a while. Even so when they work at home. Now just imagine this healthy working environment when you have to jump up from out of your working desk to do something else, when you can't hold concentration for several hours without being interrupted.

So I won't believe that after this infamous hiatus they'll pick up the pace and will deliver one update after another within a reasonable time frame for each one of them. It's not an accusation. It's an opinion based on my personal experience. I don't have my own kids yet, but I have 3 little nephews and I participate in their raising in some extent. Even for a side person like me it becomes like a second job sometimes. Without payment. So I know a thing or two about children.

I believe the devs will have to drop the project after some time from here. In could be half-baked by then, even with a sudden and abrupt final plot maybe, but it isn't possible to finish it in a scrupulous way they did it until now.

 

[Kisama33]

 

[moskyx]

You're absolutely right. Children are different. To some of them you can give toys and they'll be busy and calm for hours, entertaining themselves. While the others will require constant attention, even in their sleep. And even if devs would have "just" one calm kid - it's enough problems to keep two adult busy. Raising children just getting harder with each year and this job won't stop at the age of 18. Even in a common case when a husband provides and a wife taking care of children, they'll have to rest and to switch once in a while. Even so when they work at home. Now just imagine this healthy working environment when you have to jump up from out of your working desk to do something else, when you can't hold concentration for several hours without being interrupted.

So I won't believe that after this infamous hiatus they'll pick up the pace and will deliver one update after another within a reasonable time frame for each one of them. It's not an accusation. It's an opinion based on my personal experience. I don't have my own kids yet, but I have 3 little nephews and I participate in their raising in some extent. Even for a side person like me it becomes like a second job sometimes. Without payment. So I know a thing or two about children.

I believe the devs will have to drop the project after some time from here. In could be half-baked by then, even with a sudden and abrupt final plot maybe, but it isn't possible to finish it in a scrupulous way they did it until now.

They already had one child when they started developing What a Legend. This was their second. Key point here is that kids go to school, so devs can work for 6-8 hours daily without any inconvenience as any other parent out there. That's what they did before October 2022 and that's, presumably, what they'll do from now on, once this second child starts attending to nursery school and leaves them alone for several hours each day.

Anyway, at least now we have some people in here understanding the challenges devs have experienced this couple of years. Thanks for that.

 

[stalinsvempire]

They already had one child when they started developing What a Legend. This was their second. Key point here is that kids go to school, so devs can work for 6-8 hours daily without any inconvenience as any other parent out there. That's what they did before October 2022 and that's, presumably, what they'll do from now on, once this second child starts attending to nursery school and leaves them alone for several hours each day.

Anyway, at least now we have some people in here understanding the challenges devs have experienced this couple of years. Thanks for that.

Having kids is a challenge indeed, but still it's not an excuse for the cases like WaL.
As a consumer I'd like to buy a finished game and I don't want to wait years for it. Let's just say that Patreon isn't a "fair" system. People spend their monthly 1$ or so and don't really care, it's like a spare change for charity or something. Let's say a project has thousands such customers. It seems devs aren't really obliged to do anything and they're tempted by the Patreon, so they drag their projects through years.
For the average audience of adult gaming stuff there is not many projects to choose from: in many cases it's either hang in production for years or a total garbage. So you either complain on forums or do your own game. A funny situation.

In a perfect world devs would've release a game long ago, then raise a kid until they're able to start a new project with a reasonable life cycle. Or they let the audience know that a project is on hold until they'll be able to work on it again.

I don't believe in "lifetime" projects. The classics of game industry in general are often made by several or even few people within a couple years. The professional game devs, or movie makers, or whatever don't cling on that one product for years. The world has changed like twice since then the most famouse projects here on this site have started. What they waiting for has to be a total atomic annihilation during the Machine war along with an alien invasion, the Second Advent and the Great flood.

 

[tooldev]

Having kids is a challenge indeed, but still it's not an excuse for the cases like WaL.
As a consumer I'd like to buy a finished game and I don't want to wait years for it. Let's just say that Patreon isn't a "fair" system. People spend their monthly 1$ or so and don't really care, it's like a spare change for charity or something. Let's say a project has thousands such customers. It seems devs aren't really obliged to do anything and they're tempted by the Patreon, so they drag their projects through years.
For the average audience of adult gaming stuff there is not many projects to choose from: in many cases it's either hang in production for years or a total garbage. So you either complain on forums or do your own game. A funny situation.

In a perfect world devs would've release a game long ago, then raise a kid until they're able to start a new project with a reasonable life cycle. Or they let the audience know that a project is on hold until they'll be able to work on it again.

I don't believe in "lifetime" projects. The classics of game industry in general are often made by several or even few people within a couple years. The professional game devs, or movie makers, or whatever don't cling on that one product for years. The world has changed like twice since then the most famouse projects here on this site have started. What they waiting for has to be a total atomic annihilation during the Machine war along with an alien invasion, the Second Advent and the Great flood.

This is a consumer problem actually or to rephrase that: a generational problem. People of my age would usually never ever pay for a subscription based thing, unless it yields some effective output. Be that a newspaper, a card for a shop that gives constant bonus etc. Companies quickly figured out that it pays out better in the digital age to run everything as a subscription, as the consumer doesnt effectively get a real product anymore. As long as people's mindset isnt making that distinction, there will be massive downsides with subscription based services and products.

It very much compares to the logic one should apply to gambling: consider every amount used for it 'lost'. If the opposite occurs - be joyful.

 

[moskyx]

Having kids is a challenge indeed, but still it's not an excuse for the cases like WaL.
As a consumer I'd like to buy a finished game and I don't want to wait years for it. Let's just say that Patreon isn't a "fair" system. People spend their monthly 1$ or so and don't really care, it's like a spare change for charity or something. Let's say a project has thousands such customers. It seems devs aren't really obliged to do anything and they're tempted by the Patreon, so they drag their projects through years.
For the average audience of adult gaming stuff there is not many projects to choose from: in many cases it's either hang in production for years or a total garbage. So you either complain on forums or do your own game. A funny situation.

In a perfect world devs would've release a game long ago, then raise a kid until they're able to start a new project with a reasonable life cycle. Or they let the audience know that a project is on hold until they'll be able to work on it again.

I don't believe in "lifetime" projects. The classics of game industry in general are often made by several or even few people within a couple years. The professional game devs, or movie makers, or whatever don't cling on that one product for years. The world has changed like twice since then the most famouse projects here on this site have started. What they waiting for has to be a total atomic annihilation during the Machine war along with an alien invasion, the Second Advent and the Great flood.

Yeah, well. Maybe you should only look for finished games, then? There are many devs who still share that vision, I even 'work' as a translator for a team that has released more than 10 completed games in the last 10 years (with little financial success, mind you, but that would be dragging this discussion onto offtopic zone). The thing is that Patreon works fine enough for those who understand what they are paying for: they are not paying for the final product (although they can subscribe one month just to 'buy' it when it's ready) but to let devs keep working on their games. In WaL's case, it's not even a subscription model, since the game is totally free and Patreon rewards are fairly underwhelming (some spoilery pics, voting rights, and a chance to see your name listed in the game's supporters gallery). Basically, you don't get anything else than the personal satisfaction of supporting someone whose work you appreciate. And sure, it's obvious that when gamedevs manage to get enough support to make this for a living the incentive to actually finish those games is questionable at the very least, but that's what everyone signed up for, and patrons will always have the last word by voting with their wallets.

You mention WaL's devs should have released a completed game first, which is a financial gamble since they wouldn't get a dime until the game was ready to release, so they would have needed to work several years on this hobby while also working on their daily jobs (meaning that none of us would probably know about WaL yet, and chances are we'd never ever knew about it since they could have dropped this 'unborn' project for whatever reason - like having a second child in 2022- to focus on their regular jobs and no one on Earth would have noticed); then take their one-time shot to get as much money from sales as possible, then probably keep working on their daily jobs for some stable monthly income while they sort out the newborn or whatever situation they'd be facing at the time, rinse and repeat. I don't think that's a reasonable choice to make for any family when they have an alternative that allows them to get their somewhat stable monthly income from developing their game, as it happened here when they gained some good traction with the first couple of installments. Patreon actually allowed a talented artist and a decent yet inexperienced writer to leave their jobs and live on their pet project, which is quite a nice thing if you ask me. You are demanding hobbyists to take a professional or even industrial approach, going from one project to the next, hoping their sales would remain high enough to make it worthwhile, but that's neither what this kind of people usually look for, nor what they wish, nor even what they are capable of. If they have more stories to tell and feel like it, they can try their luck with a second project, but some games and stories can be on almost eternal development, much like soap operas.

On another note, WaL devs did let their audience know that the project would be taking a lower priority for some months, and the way they constantly communicate their progress and shortcomings lets people decide when to stop paying them. I guess they could have paused pledges for some months, but around 20% of their supporters back in 2022 have already left by themselves.

 

[Finuee]

 

[XStarLordX]

Wait until this game gets a second round of Code, then it will probably get a third round of polish.