Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.05] [MagicNuts]

[reees754]

Oh, and knowing firsthand the cost of living in Spain and seeing their Patreon earnings, I can't help but feel a bit disgusted. These guys can absolutely do this full-time, then hire someone to help out, and still be pretty well-off(way wealthier than average). What they're making is great, mind you, but to say they're not milking this on purpose at least in some part would be delusional.

WaL is my favourite game on this site and everything about this game was absolutely brilliant so far and i expect the new update to be of the same quality. Brilliant developer so far no doubt about that.

But to be fair the respect for them shouldn´t cloud the judgement of what´s going on and your 2 last post are pretty much spot on.

There is definitely something going wrong with the update schedule. The game will be finished in 15 years from now if this downhill updates continues. I feel something will go wrong along the way.

And it´s respectable that some fans are defending the dev, they mean good, but i think blindly shutting down any critisism like "game is free, shut up!" (it isn´t free really, they are accepting patreons or development will stop) or "you dont like it get out of here" don´t change the very very simple fact that the updates take longer and longer to finish.

It will hurt the game in the end............. it´s like a publisher leaving the dev to do whatever he wants.......the working morale will go downhill.

To sum up: I always had the opinion the this dev does an absolute brilliant job with this game and should make it in the timeline and the way he wants to.
If he wants to put out the next update in 1 year from now.......i wont like it but its ok with me......if he puts out the next one in 2 years from now.........ok with me......if he wants to stop development completely........ok with me too, i´ll still respect them for the brilliant game he made so far.

But it´s not fair to tell people to fuck off when they have justified critisism. Arkopand pretty much nailed it with what he wrote: "What they're making is great, mind you, but to say they're not milking this on purpose at least in some part would be delusional"

 

[reees754]

Yup. It's cruel how they are releasing this game for free instead of locking it behind a paywall like most other h-games and even offering refunds to their patreons

Yeah, and let´s be honest the type of people supporting on patreon are 99% not the type that´ll do the refund. But offering it will look good ;-) And that´s probably the goal. All respect to the dev. But we don´t have to be naive because we respect him.

Also "the game is free" is also naive. I for example wouldn´t have played this game in a hundred years if it wasn´t for free, but when i played it, i was thinking "damn, that was good, i want to support this guys financially". And obviously a lot of other people thought that too as seen as the patreons.

AND THAT`S THE EFFING GOAL OF GIVING THE GAME FOR FREE.......... it´s a very simple concept, really that hard to grasp???............ I give you something for free that you wouldn´t have tried otherwise and if you like it you support me financially...... very fair deal as i see it.

 

[robbiej691]

So, the dev needs ~ a year for an update with content for ~ 10 minutes of gameplay. This is a quite a bitter pill to swallow, especially with the hard contest out here.

i did it in 9mins and 56 seconds.

Yeah, and let´s be honest the type of people supporting on patreon are 99% not the type that´ll do the refund. But offering it will look good ;-) And that´s probably the goal. All respect to the dev. But we don´t have to be naive because we respect him.

and the people who support this game by paying, well they voted for the updates this way. did you vote?

 

[Ocean75]

Yeah, and let´s be honest the type of people supporting on patreon are 99% not the type that´ll do the refund. But offering it will look good ;-) And that´s probably the goal. All respect to the dev. But we don´t have to be naive because we respect him.

Also "the game is free" is also naive. I for example wouldn´t have played this game in a hundred years if it wasn´t for free, but when i played it, i was thinking "damn, that was good, i want to support this guys financially". And obviously a lot of other people thought that too as seen as the patreons.

AND THAT`S THE EFFING GOAL OF GIVING THE GAME FOR FREE.......... it´s a very simple concept, really that hard to grasp???............ I give you something for free that you wouldn´t have tried otherwise and if you like it you support me financially...... very fair deal as i see it.

I respect your opinion

 

[reees754]

i did it in 9mins and 56 seconds.

and the people who support this game by paying, well they voted for the updates this way. did you vote?

No, i´m not on patreon (for reasons), but i was thinking i´ll have to send this guys a fat (and discrete) Amazon-coupon once they´re finished....
Well that was 2 updates ago when i thought they´ll finish the game in maybe 2023. :-( LOL It´ll be more like 2035 if at all ;-)

Though i think the majority of patreons of any game not just WaL wont notice beeing milked (and some even dont care if they notice) as long as the devs give them some breadcrumbs along the way.....

Well whatever.....i wish the WaL devs as before good luck with this game and i hope they have a good time doing so.
It´s just that i think that not noticing that something is going wrong with the update schedule would be very naive.

 

[reees754]

I respect your opinion

Thanks.

I just think it´s weird when i see one side defending anything, anyway beeing done and the other side just wants the next update in stellar quality beeing done in one month.

Either extreme side is funny to me, when the truth is somewhere in the middle

 

[arkopand]

well they voted for the updates this way.

who voted to have updates take 9 months to develop?

 

[moskyx]

who voted to have updates take 9 months to develop?

Their patrons, first when they were asked if they'd prefer full quests on each update (like Myrtle's, knowing it would mean longer development cycles) or partial quests (like Holly's), and then when they didn't massively abandon the devs even though the projected 5 months between releases became 9. So even if you can't comprehend it and makes you sick, those who pay for us to enjoy a free game actually want this -and they are still a lot of people. Sorry mate.

 

[reees754]

Their patrons, first when they were asked if they'd prefer full quests on each update (like Myrtle's, knowing it would mean longer development cycles) or partial quests (like Holly's), and then when they didn't massively abandon the devs even though the projected 5 months between releases became 9. So even if you can't comprehend it and makes you sick, those who pay for us to enjoy a free game actually want this -and they are still a lot of people. Sorry mate.

Well, wow. Then it´s as i thought. The type supporting on patreon don´t mind or notice beeing milked, probably people with too much money anyways...... so if the dev realizes that, why shouldn´t he take double the time or triple the next time??? :-D

My working morale would go down too for sure if my boss would never care about my results and still keep paying me the same

Well if the patreons think they help the development of the game with that attitude, i´m afraid they´re not. They´re doing exactly the opposite.
Will be a miracle if WaL gets finished in the same quality as thus far. I have the feeling sooner or later the balance of milking to quality will go wrong somewhere, patreons pissed and WaL will be unfinished or rushed to an end.

Man, i hope i´m wrong....

 

[moskyx]

Well, wow. Then it´s as i thought. The type supporting on patreon don´t mind or notice beeing milked, probably people with too much money anyways...... so if the dev realizes that, why shouldn´t he take double the time or triple the next time??? :-D

My working morale would go down too for sure if my boss would never care about my results and still keep paying me the same

Well if the patreons think they help the development of the game with that attitude, i´m afraid they´re not. They´re doing exactly the opposite.
Will be a miracle if WaL gets finished in the same quality as thus far. I have the feeling sooner or later the balance of milking to quality will go wrong somewhere, patreons pissed and WaL will be unfinished or rushed to an end.

Man, i hope i´m wrong....

Didn't you say that it's OK with you if the game never got finished? It doesn't seem so, honestly. You DO want the game to be finished; however, instead of letting devs keep working on it the way they have been working so far (which has proven to be quite effective both in terms of quality, quantity, and support), you are adding up to the pile of whiners who only want their instant gratification without thinking about what it takes for these devs to create that content. Because you don't really fear that the game would never be completed, it seems to me that you fear you can lose your interest in it if takes a bit too much for your expectations. Despite your 'rational' comments, what matters to you is not the game and its devs, but you.

Devs are not happy either with their development speed, if only because they have to put up with comments insinuating or plainly accusing them of being some lazy milking scammers, when they know they aren't. Which is not nice and can be more hurtful and demoralizing than 'having a boss who doesn't care about my results'. Even that assumption is false: their real bosses care so much about their results that they want the devs to spend as much time as they need to get the results they are expecting from them, because these devs have proven they can deliver. Not wanting to pressure them doesn't equal to not caring, then it's up to devs to get the real message and actually provide worthy content. Which, so far, they have accomplished in every single update.

No one else but them knows for sure how hard are they working on this. However, people here just seem to assume they are ill-intentioned when they don't release an update as fast as we want. I always say that having money and power doesn't change people, it just reveals their true colors; now I'm guessing that the same is true when people think about those who have more money and more power than them: instead of judging them for their actual actions, people project their own moral compass on them, imaging what they would do in that situation. And some people are not looking good; including those who think that pressuring your subordinates is 'being a good boss'. Sure, there have been (and still are) some devs who abuse the system, but 'defending' these devs is not about being naive, it's about being fair with them and their own record, not someone else's. There's nothing worst than judging people for what others did and assuming they'll do the same instead of looking just at what they are actually doing.

 

[StreamSteam]

 

[reees754]

Didn't you say that it's OK with you if the game never got finished? It doesn't seem so, honestly. You DO want the game to be finished; however, instead of letting devs keep working on it the way they have been working so far (which has proven to be quite effective both in terms of quality, quantity, and support), you are adding up to the pile of whiners who only want their instant gratification without thinking about what it takes for these devs to create that content. Because you don't really fear that the game would never be completed, it seems to me that you fear you can lose your interest in it if takes a bit too much for your expectations. Despite your 'rational' comments, what matters to you is not the game and its devs, but you.

Devs are not happy either with their development speed, if only because they have to put up with comments insinuating or plainly accusing them of being some lazy milking scammers, when they know they aren't. Which is not nice and can be more hurtful and demoralizing than 'having a boss who doesn't care about my results'. Even that assumption is false: their real bosses care so much about their results that they want the devs to spend as much time as they need to get the results they are expecting from them, because these devs have proven they can deliver. Not wanting to pressure them doesn't equal to not caring, then it's up to devs to get the real message and actually provide worthy content. Which, so far, they have accomplished in every single update.

No one else but them knows for sure how hard are they working on this. However, people here just seem to assume they are ill-intentioned when they don't release an update as fast as we want. I always say that having money and power doesn't change people, it just reveals their true colors; now I'm guessing that the same is true when people think about those who have more money and more power than them: instead of judging them for their actual actions, people project their own moral compass on them, imaging what they would do in that situation. And some people are not looking good; including those who think that pressuring your subordinates is 'being a good boss'. Sure, there have been (and still are) some devs who abuse the system, but 'defending' these devs is not about being naive, it's about being fair with them and their own record, not someone else's. There's nothing worst than judging people for what others did and assuming they'll do the same instead of looking just at what they are actually doing.

Hehehe, you´re running in already open doors mate.

I want the game to be finished like everyone else, but i said i´m ok with it if they don´t because it´s their game and their prerogative to do so. There is nothing contradictive in that. Majority of your post are simple platitudes. U a politician mate??? :-D

You seem a little bit too overly protective, like someone in love with a girl that decides to protect her and simping despite every red flag that comes up overtime.

Good for you, but don´t paint everybody else as whiners when they see a red flag and call a spade a spade.

It´s one thing to try to be fair, but you´re way overdoing it mate, by bullying everybody with any critisism. Even every constructive critisism (9 months instead of 3-5???) gets the usual two thousand words wall reply from you which is also FULL of assumptions that devs are not "stretching" :-D

Whatever.............. i guess we´ll have to agree to disagree on this.

Maybe you could consider taking your bullying and simping down a notch? (I´m kidding i know you wont)

On one thing you´re right though, after 9 months my interest for the game dropped for sure. Momentum is lost. As to be expected......... it´s not rocket science...

 

[Blades1138]

Man, there's something wrong with me. Each update I've spent at least a couple of hours or more playing the new content, while some in here are done in 5 seconds.

I must be playing it wrong, trying to read everything and exploring around. I guess I should hold my finger on the skip button if I want to win. Afterwards I can join the party and complain that the game has no content.

 

[Tlaero]

Maybe you could consider taking your bullying and simping down a notch? (I´m kidding i know you wont)

It's hard to find truth in today's world. For many people, the easiest way to see what they're doing is to listen to what they claim their "opponents" are doing. This common behavior makes the waters very muddy. The sad thing is that it works.

Here are two actual truths though.
1) MagicNuts are perfectionists who care more about quality than schedule.
2) Moskys is no bully.

Tlaero

 

[moskyx]

Hehehe, you´re running in already open doors mate.

I want the game to be finished like everyone else, but i said i´m ok with it if they don´t because it´s their game and their prerogative to do so. There is nothing contradictive in that. Majority of your post are simple platitudes. U a politician mate??? :-D

You seem a little bit too overly protective, like someone in love with a girl that decides to protect her and simping despite every red flag that comes up overtime.

Good for you, but don´t paint everybody else as whiners when they see a red flag and call a spade a spade.

It´s one thing to try to be fair, but you´re way overdoing it mate, by bullying everybody with any critisism. Even every constructive critisism (9 months instead of 3-5???) gets the usual two thousand words wall reply from you which is also FULL of assumptions that devs are not "stretching" :-D

Whatever.............. i guess we´ll have to agree to disagree on this.

Maybe you could consider taking your bullying and simping down a notch? (I´m kidding i know you wont)

On one thing you´re right though, after 9 months my interest for the game dropped for sure. Momentum is lost. As to be expected......... it´s not rocket science...

All I'm saying is that what you consider a 'red flag' it's only a red flag for you because others took that bad path, but doesn't mean shit until you can prove these devs are taking that same path -that is, after seeing the results of devs' alleged work- and we are very close to seeing who's right. So please come back after the release and we can talk about if it's been a significant drop in playing time, quantity and quality of cutscenes, bugs encountered and so on. Until then, everything else are personal and baseless assumptions disguised as 'I know better than you, simp' with the only goal of either throwing shit gratuitously at devs and supporters or just being able to claim bragging rights if the game actually gets abandoned, which is fairly shitty if you think about it (what kind of person are you if you feel somewhat happy because you can say 'I knew it' when something nice goes to waste and you are left without it). And yeah, I'll keep answering those unfair comments until I'm proved wrong or lose my interest in this forum.

 

[reees754]

All I'm saying is that what you consider a 'red flag' it's only a red flag for you because others took that bad path, but doesn't mean shit until you can prove these devs are taking that same path -that is, after seeing the results of devs' alleged work- and we are very close to seeing who's right. So please come back after the release and we can talk about if it's been a significant drop in playing time, quantity and quality of cutscenes, bugs encountered and so on. Until then, everything else are personal and baseless assumptions disguised as 'I know better than you, simp' with the only goal of either throwing shit gratuitously at devs and supporters or just being able to claim bragging rights if the game actually gets abandoned, which is fairly shitty if you think about it (what kind of person are you if you feel somewhat happy because you can say 'I knew it' when something nice goes to waste and you are left without it). And yeah, I'll keep answering those unfair comments until I'm proved wrong or lose my interest in this forum.

You talking about answering unfair comments is ironic! WTF?!!

Dude your post is full of unfair statements - read your post again and check where i stated the things you seem to have made up in scenarios only in your own mind. WTF?!

Dude, you mad and its only temporary? Or is precise reading and grasping what was written without interpreting into it what wasn´t written or meant a permanent problem for you?

Sorry mate, don´t mean to piss you off, but read what you´ve written and what my posts were and then rethink about talking about others writing unfair post.

Dude, i normally try to communicate with whomever but there is no constructive discussion with a person who likes to distort things like this. Results only in BS.

 

[Sthr ▚ nix]

Man, there's something wrong with me. Each update I've spent at least a couple of hours or more playing the new content, while some in here are done in 5 seconds.

I must be playing it wrong, trying to read everything and exploring around. I guess I should hold my finger on the skip button if I want to win. Afterwards I can join the party and complain that the game has no content.

Yeah, we should try speedrunning for the next one. We play this game wrong.

 

[odino]

dont worry i will speed run it the moment its extracted i will run it

 

[reees754]

It's hard to find truth in today's world. For many people, the easiest way to see what they're doing is to listen to what they claim their "opponents" are doing. This common behavior makes the waters very muddy. The sad thing is that it works.

Here are two actual truths though.
1) MagicNuts are perfectionists who care more about quality than schedule.
2) Moskys is no bully.

Tlaero

to 1) i agree. Doesn´t change anything about the critisism though, there is some viable ones
to 2) Not? Yeah, maybe not. From what i saw he acts for sure like one though.


Anyways in general 2 things here are confused about the whole update problem, they are not linked - they are 2 separate things:

1.) as i mentioned, whenever the dev brings out his updates in 1 year in 2 or then in 3 years from now i´m ok with that ---> meaning i accept it´s his prerogative. If he wants to milk the patreons along the way i have to accept that too (of course dont know if they do, but looking at multiple hints together like for example the slow bugsquashing, then i´m sorry but it kinda points to it) it´s his prerogative too, good for him if he found people like this.

2.) The second thing is that when fans want to point out that there are hints, that it seems that the update times is delayed for obvious reasons - THEN IT IS THEIR EFFING PREROGATIVE TOO TO MENTION IT! WTF, that shouldn´t be even discussed when an update takes 9 months instead of 3-5 and bugsquashing in slow motion????

I bet when Moskys reads this in his Head scenarios are awakening how i deeply hate the developers, wish them the worst in life and hope the devs-neighbors dog eats his favourite cat and the dev develops a depression and erectile disfunction after that.

There you go Mosky..... calm down boy calm down my friend with your removed critical thinking....nothing of the sorts was meant or written by me. Put your fork down, calm down your Fan-Simp heart. We know the dev can do nothing wrong, even if he himself would tell you he did, you´d find 1000 excuses why its ok as a good Simp-Fan does. Relax baby, everythings ok.

 

[destroyerofassholes]

I agree that the pacing has become ridiculous since the Myrtle update. The game *is* being released for free though. So we have no real room to complain.

Still though, I'm concerned about the future of the game. I imagine this is going to go the Gunsmoke/SR7 route of taking a decade to finish the game with the current pace.

Which I guess is desirable for Magicnuts, lül.