Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.05] [MagicNuts]

[Viressa]

Yeah, we should try speedrunning for the next one. We play this game wrong.

There are absolutely folks who speedrun visual novels. There are speedrunners for *everything*.

 

[whichone]

to 1) i agree. Doesn´t change anything about the critisism though, there is some viable ones

Yes, it does change things about the criticism.
That information makes a lot of the criticism invalid.
If the criticism is invalid, it is simply proven so by facts & dismissed as the entitled whinging that it generally is.
"Dev's a crook/milker", etc, are not viable criticisms & are responded to appropriately.
Presenting an uninformed opinion that is contrary to facts & having it laughed at, or responded to with sarcasm, is not bullying.

If someone doesn't want their stupidity laughed at, they shouldn't put it out in public.
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

 

[Ocean75]

Yeah, we should try speedrunning for the next one. We play this game wrong.

Let's break the apparent 10 minute speedrun record!

 

[reees754]

Yes, it does change everything about the criticism.
That information makes a lot of the criticism invalid.
If the criticism is invalid, it is simply proven so by facts & dismissed as the nonsense whinging that it generally is.
"Dev's a crook/milker", etc, are not viable criticisms & are responded to appropriately.
Presenting an uninformed opinion that is contrary to facts & having it laughed at, or responded to with sarcasm, is not bullying.

Yeah i saw you wanting proof for the milking and of course no one can give it for sure but the signs are there.

But come on man, do you have any proof they´re not though? Are you working at their place? Is your only proof what they´re writing in their logs? Do you know how easy it is to prepare these in advance? Especially after dev getting into a groove to do so?

Come on dude..... i love this game too......doesn´t mean we have to abandon any critical thinking. And blind simping isn´t going to help this game getting developed - it´ll be the opposite. You mean well, but well meant results often in badly done.

Now honestly.....genuine and friendly question: Where is the point for you where you have to admit "Hey, indeed something is not ok" or don´t you care at all? If the dev stretches the updates to 3 years thats still considered not milking for you too, everything fine? You would still pay your monthly patreon five years without an update too, if the dev gives weekly update of the 3 bugs he squashed? What´s your limit?

 

[whichone]

Yeah i saw you wanting proof for the milking and of course no one can give it for sure but the signs are there.

In your opinion.
Not as a fact.

But come on man, do you have any proof they´re not though? Are you working at their place? Is your only proof what they´re writing in their logs? Do you know how easy it is to prepare these in advance? Especially after dev getting into a groove to do so?

You don't seem to understand how it works.
It's called The Burden of Proof.
It means that the person making the claim is the one who has to prove it.
So, someone claiming that the dev is a milker needs to prove it.
The onus is not on me to disprove it.
If someone cannot prove their claim, then it is unsubstantiated.

When other people present evidence to contradict that claim, they are not making a claim of their own.
They are simply contradicting the original claim, that the dev's a milker.

Come on dude..... i love this game too......doesn´t mean we have to abandon any critical thinking. And blind simping isn´t going to help this game getting developed - it´ll be the opposite. You mean well, but well meant results often in badly done.

What & you think caling the dev a liar & a thief is likely to make it happen?
That seems pretty demotivational, to me.

Now honestly.....genuine and friendly question: What is the point for you where you have to admit "Hey, indeed something is not ok" or don´t you care at all? If the dev stretches the updates to 3 years thats still considered not milking for you too, everything fine? You would still pay your monthly patreon five years without an update too, if the dev gives weekly update of the 3 bugs he squashed? What´s your limit?

I don't have a limit for something I am getting for free.
If it takes a month, or a year, it costs me nothing but patience.
If other people are willing to pay and support the dev, that is entirely their decision and their own business.
Not mine. Not yours.
You claiming they are being milked is an irrelevance.
They do not share your opinion and are happy to support the dev financially.

 

[reees754]

In your opinion.
Not as a fact.

Reflects my opinion about 95% of your post too.

I do begin to wonder with all this sidestepping if some of the Fan-Simps are paid. Yeah, yeah........ i know this is only my opinion and not the Fan-Simp-Facts LoL ;-)

Anyways, have a nice day, dude

 

[whichone]

Reflects my opinion about 95% of your post too.

Your maths needs some work.
One sentence of my post was my opinion, that calling the dev a thief seems demotivational.
Literally everything else in it was fact.

I do begin to wonder with all this sidestepping if some of the Fan-Simps are paid. Yeah, yeah........ i know this is only my opinion and not the Fan-Simp-Facts LoL ;-)

Anyways, have a nice day, dude

I don't understand what you're hoping to achieve with such a response?
Are you hoping to provoke me?
I did not side-step anything.
I systematically destroyed your argument, with facts that blatantly contradict your opinions.
I'll stick to presenting facts, over name calling.
Thanks all the same.

The dev is not going to provide the game any quicker because of you venting.
The patrons are not going to stop financially supporting the dev because of you venting.
It doesn't appear to do anything, except make you seem irrationally upset.

Just take a step back & chill.
If we are not paying, we cannot get ripped off. We lose absolutely nothing.
It will be here when it's ready. Nothing in this forum is going to alter that.
The only thing you need, is patience.

 

[reees754]

I don't understand what you're hoping to achieve?
The dev is not going to provide the game any quicker, because of you venting.
The patrons are not going to stop financially supporting the dev, because of you venting.
It doesn't appear to do anything, except make you appear slightly upset.

Just take a step back & chill.
It will be here when it's ready. Nothing in this forum is going to alter that.

NOT
A
EFFIN
SINGLE
ONE
of my posts were meant for patreons or the dev. You Fan-Simps have all problems with grasping what´s written. I am seriously beginning to think you guys don´t pick up on things and have this common flaw.

All of my posts were meant for the critical fans to know they´re not alone with their opinion - as i saw even the most intelligent critic would be shut down immidiately with mostly unfitting platitudes that didn´t adress the critisism at all by the usual Fan-Simp-Residents.

I ignored that for month but today i wrote something because one poster really did hit the nail on the head with, i quote:
-----"What they're making is great, mind you, but to say they're not milking this on purpose at least in some part would be delusional." ----

All my posts can be condensed to simply this 2 things:

- the dev can do whatever he wants with his release schedule including milking it too (if he does and of course, i apologize if he doesn´t)

- the fans saying the dev "seems" to be milking the game have valid points in doing so and shouldn´t be always "bullied" by the resident Fan-Simps which i guess are the kind of people that see somebody scammed on the street but shrugging their shoulders and saying "not my money, not my problem, he can do whatever he wants"

I am the kind of person that would intervene and at least inform that person "hey dude, i think you´re getting scammed!"

Whatever, not interested in discussing this anymore.

Anyways, Greetings to the fans here that don´t have their critical thinking lobotomized! You´re not alone!

One more thing:
- that typical bullshit argument that the game is free........ the game is NOT free... YOU`RE PAYING WITH ONE OF THE MOST VALUABLE THINGS YOU HAVE. If you dont know what it is, you dont deserve somebody telling you what it is. After you paid that the dev gets the chance you´ll like the game and pay for it -simple business......

 

[PBS666]

the game is NOT free... YOU`RE PAYING WITH ONE OF THE MOST VALUABLE THINGS YOU HAVE. If you dont know what it is, you dont deserve somebody telling you what it is

This valuable thing he's alluding to better not be Time, because he sure seems to have a lot of it to waste when writing those diatribes.
Maybe he will explain in another word salad his great wisdom

 

[Viressa]

This valuable thing he's alluding to better not be Time, because he sure seems to have a lot of it to waste when writing those diatribes.
Maybe he will explain in another word salad his great wisdom

*playing What A Legend!, blissfully unaware that tiny gnomes are sneaking into their home and stealing their prized Chuck E. Cheese token collection as they do so as payment*

 

[whichone]

which i guess are the kind of people that see somebody scammed on the street but shrugging their shoulders and saying "not my money, not my problem, he can do whatever he wants"

What an utterly ridiculous failure of an analogy.
The two things could hardly be more unrelated.
If I saw someone getting robbed on the street, I would probably try and help them, dependant on the situation.
But no-one has been scammed of anything here.
The patrons have not lost their money. They chose to spend it on supporting the dev.
You have not lost the time you've spent waiting. You've spent it how you chose to.
You are responsible for how you spent your time.
Grow up.

Random unsubstantiated waffle, blah blah....

"Better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, than to open it and remove all doubt."

 

[moskyx]

NOT
A
EFFIN
SINGLE
ONE
of my posts were meant for patreons or the dev.

A dig totally not meant for the patrons:

Well if the patreons think they help the development of the game with that attitude, i´m afraid they´re not. They´re doing exactly the opposite.

A dig totally not meant for the devs:

If he wants to milk the patreons along the way i have to accept that too (of course dont know if they do, but looking at multiple hints together like for example the slow bugsquashing, then i´m sorry but it kinda points to it) it´s his prerogative too, good for him if he found people like this.

And finally, your true colors are revealed:

the fans saying the dev "seems" to be milking the game have valid points in doing so and shouldn´t be always "bullied" by the resident Fan-Simps which i guess are the kind of people that see somebody scammed on the street but shrugging their shoulders and saying "not my money, not my problem, he can do whatever he wants"

I am the kind of person that would intervene and at least inform that person "hey dude, i think you´re getting scammed!"

So you are indeed kindly informing people that they are getting scammed (or might be, since you admit you don't have any base for this accusation except for the updates taking longer, which was a known risk when actual supporters voted for this approach, and bug-squashing being slow, even though none of us can actually judge whether they are being slow or not since we don't get to see those alleged bugs, so it's all personal assumptions from both sides). And of course you're just bravely supporting those who share your views. But you see, those who you imply are likely getting scammed are called patrons. And those who you imply that might be likely doing the scam are the devs. You can do all the mental gymnastics you want but when you say you think people are being scammed you are effectively addressing both the devs and their patrons. You can't choose them not to feel addressed and pointing out to you that they aren't. Of course, getting an unwanted answer now is being bullied, even though you were the only one throwing accusations and resorting to name-calling.

Saying that updates are taking longer is an undisputed fact. Heck, even devs have stated several times they are not happy with it and are offering refunds (just a marketing trick, you seem to think). But saying that 'bruh, it's been 9 months instead of 5 so you are milking/being milked' is not constructive criticism, is plainly whining because you can't have something (yes, for free) as quickly as you wanted. This being a public forum, I choose to reply and try to dismantle that 'criticism' with some facts (and yes, making the opposite assumptions they make, since none of us have any proof) if I feel like it. Just for the record, I'm not a patron and I don't get any funds or other benefits from devs. I'm just that kind of person, you know.

 

[whichone]

And finally, your true colors are revealed:

lol using facts, logic and reason doesn't work on this individual.
Even pointing out where he's blatantly contradicted himself has no effect. smh
His unsubstantiated opinion carries more weight than facts. Don't ya know.

Dev's milking.
Prove it.
I can't.
OK, well here's some evidence that contradicts your claim & suggests the dev is not milking.
He definitely is, you're a SIMP!

Has no argument in response, so resorts to name calling as an attempt at belittling.
Obviously not even got the 1st clue what a simp is.

I'm not interested in facts. I find they tend to cloud my judgement.
I prefer to rely on instinct & blind prejudice.

Here's the bottom line:
If you don't like how it's done, leave.
No-one is forcing you to be here.

 

[robbiej691]

NOT
A
EFFIN
SINGLE
ONE
of my posts were meant for patreons or the dev. You Fan-Simps have all problems with grasping what´s written. I am seriously beginning to think you guys don´t pick up on things and have this common flaw.

All of my posts were meant for the critical fans to know they´re not alone with their opinion - as i saw even the most intelligent critic would be shut down immidiately with mostly unfitting platitudes that didn´t adress the critisism at all by the usual Fan-Simp-Residents.

I ignored that for month but today i wrote something because one poster really did hit the nail on the head with, i quote:
-----"What they're making is great, mind you, but to say they're not milking this on purpose at least in some part would be delusional." ----

All my posts can be condensed to simply this 2 things:

- the dev can do whatever he wants with his release schedule including milking it too (if he does and of course, i apologize if he doesn´t)

- the fans saying the dev "seems" to be milking the game have valid points in doing so and shouldn´t be always "bullied" by the resident Fan-Simps which i guess are the kind of people that see somebody scammed on the street but shrugging their shoulders and saying "not my money, not my problem, he can do whatever he wants"

I am the kind of person that would intervene and at least inform that person "hey dude, i think you´re getting scammed!"

Whatever, not interested in discussing this anymore.

Anyways, Greetings to the fans here that don´t have their critical thinking lobotomized! You´re not alone!

One more thing:
- that typical bullshit argument that the game is free........ the game is NOT free... YOU`RE PAYING WITH ONE OF THE MOST VALUABLE THINGS YOU HAVE. If you dont know what it is, you dont deserve somebody telling you what it is. After you paid that the dev gets the chance you´ll like the game and pay for it -simple business......

you are accusing them of something close to liable. you have no proof. if you are so worried about people being scammed, take it to court, by the way, man did land on the moon, JFK was shot by lee harvey oswald, the earth is not flat

 

[whichone]

you are accusing them of something close to liable. you have no proof. if you are so worried about people being scammed, take it to court, by the way, man did land on the moon, JFK was shot by lee harvey oswald, the earth is not flat

Aaah, man - flat-earthers!!! Of course!!
I knew these unsubstantiated opinions reminded me of something else ridiculously ignorant & stupid!!! Thanks man.

 

[Tlaero]

Now honestly.....genuine and friendly question: Where is the point for you where you have to admit "Hey, indeed something is not ok" or don´t you care at all? If the dev stretches the updates to 3 years thats still considered not milking for you too, everything fine? You would still pay your monthly patreon five years without an update too, if the dev gives weekly update of the 3 bugs he squashed? What´s your limit?

Maybe this isn't clear, but most patrons aren't supporting the game. They're supporting the developers. If they stop being developers, patrons will stop supporting them. If they keep working at being developers, patrons will keep supporting them. The game they're working on isn't particularly relevant.

As for evidence that they're working, we see them on discord. Granted, they could have set up a script to randomly click in photoshop and convince Discord to show Chestnut as painting. And, maybe all the interaction that I've had with them has been a carefully orchestrated lie that makes them seem like good, hardworking people, when they're actually scammers. And maybe doing things like refunding people their patron fees without question is a devious plot to convince us that they're not really greedy.

Or, maybe, these things are evidence that they are genuine. And maybe that evidence weighs more than the complaint that it's taken them 10 months to write more than a novel's worth of words and draw hundreds of extremely high quality images.

Tlaero

 

[ramadhantakka]

lots of people talking about milking, can someone explain to me what happen..?

 

[robbiej691]

lots of people talking about milking, can someone explain to me what happen..?

nothing has happened. the new update is not too far away. just seems like some people like to troll and ruin reputations

 

[ramadhantakka]

nothing has happened. the new update is not too far away. just seems like some people like to troll and ruin reputations

okay, good to hear

 

[ramadhantakka]

You heard about ppl who think holocaust was a scam, that URSS was cool and did nothing wrong, that socialism can actually work and an example are the so called "Nordic Countries"?... People like that are in abundance around the world, it's part of mankind to be like that, no matter all evidence, facts and data, nor even if a scientist comes to explained them... Nothing can be done just the nature by "Darwin" does, don't let them affect you.

maybe just people with impatience , then try ruin reputations