VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

4.20 star(s) 198 Votes
Discussion Reviews (198)
Zeniks1895

Zeniks1895

Newbie
Jul 30, 2021
50
163
BobTheDuck said:
I had a thought about this. Leia is characterised by jealousy when it comes to Willi; I wonder how far her hypocrisy goes? If she kept herself a virgin, she's a hypocrite for saying that Katie couldn't seduce anyone, and doubly so for the way she pimps out her employees. If she's not, then her treatment of Willi's disappearance is hypocrisy because she has also abandoned him. She can't keep accussing him of having left if she'd moved on, and if she hasn't moved on, well Katie's had more recent relationships than Leia, especially considering she'd bi. I think this is why I dislike her - Leia has a massive double standard either way in order to defend her version of the story, so she can be the victim and the only right person. Willi does admit he did wrong on many occasions and is trying to grow, so I'm much more sympathetic to a jerk trying to reform himself than someone who gets people to call her princess.

Also, rumours about Willi and Leia were rife - from the scene with Dana:

da "Do you know what the people said after you vanished?"
d "Mh?"
da "They said that you and Leia had a relationship and your parents found out and kicked you out."
scene af1489 with dssa
"You raise a brow."
scene af1490 with dssr
da "The rumors the people spread were brutal."
da "Leia broke more than just one nose..."

This kinda supports the idea that what Katie was threatening was something that Willi didn't want Leia to know. Dylan and Helen would have understood that Leia's depression/anorexia wasn't simplely from missing her twin as they nursed her. Of course, Katie could have seeded the rumours, but if we believe she didn't tell Dylan and Helen, and didn't tell 'her', then chances are she wasn't spreading rumours either. I'd guess the rumours were organic or from someone like Mon, who is openly hostile with reason, wondering why (dare I say it) she was dumped two ways on the same night.
Click to expand...
If she's a virgin then what she said to Katie doesn't make her a hypocrite. Leia knows she's good looking plus she's self-confident enough to think she can seduce anyone. She just doesn't need to since she's only interested in our protagonist. She sees her female employees as useful tools to achieve her goals and uses them accordingly, I don't understand how this makes her a hypocrite. However, if she is not a virgin then her attitude towards William is really quite hypocritical. Actually the fact that she wasn't a virgin in the previous version is quite strange and illogical, given all her obsession with the protagonist. I could totally understand if Katie already had some experience but in Leia's case it's weird and doesn't fit her character. I hope that in the new version Ocean will correct this unfortunate misunderstanding.
 
BobTheDuck

BobTheDuck

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
2,146
12,629
Zeniks1895 said:
If she's a virgin then what she said to Katie doesn't make her a hypocrite. Leia knows she's good looking plus she's self-confident enough to think she can seduce anyone. She just doesn't need to since she's only interested in our protagonist. She sees her female employees as useful tools to achieve her goals and uses them accordingly, I don't understand how this makes her a hypocrite. However, if she is not a virgin then her attitude towards William is really quite hypocritical. Actually the fact that she wasn't a virgin in the previous version is quite strange and illogical, given all her obsession with the protagonist. I could totally understand if Katie already had some experience but in Leia's case it's weird and doesn't fit her character. I hope that in the new version Ocean will correct this unfortunate misunderstanding.
Click to expand...
You're right, hypocrite is the wrong term for if she's a virgin. Saying that Katie can't seduce anyone while Katie is having relationships while Leia isn't is maybe just gaslighting? Nonsensical? Illogical? Something that doesn't flatter Leia in any regard. Asking people to do and act in ways that you haven't/don't in the case of the girls might not exactly be hypocritical, but again it's certainly not a flattering look.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Maviarab
Zeniks1895

Zeniks1895

Newbie
Jul 30, 2021
50
163
BobTheDuck said:
You're right, hypocrite is the wrong term for if she's a virgin. Saying that Katie can't seduce anyone while Katie is having relationships while Leia isn't is maybe just gaslighting? Nonsensical? Illogical? Something that doesn't flatter Leia in any regard. Asking people to do and act in ways that you haven't/don't in the case of the girls might not exactly be hypocritical, but again it's certainly not a flattering look.
Click to expand...
It was illogical (given that she has a girlfriend and that we ourselves saw some worm hit on her in the bar), unfair and humiliating, but not hypocritical. We will still have the opportunity to fix the relationship between them(at least that was the case in the previous version). In addition, I believe we will have the opportunity to change Leia's behaviour for the better (for example, in the last chapter we can tell her to be nicer to Monica, that's a start). In general I agree with you, at this point in time her behaviour is unacceptable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BobTheDuck
Maviarab

Maviarab

Dark Lord of the Coffee
Donor
Jul 12, 2020
11,427
27,440
Zeniks1895 said:
It was illogical (given that she has a girlfriend and that we ourselves saw some worm hit on her in the bar), unfair and humiliating, but not hypocritical. We will still have the opportunity to fix the relationship between them(at least that was the case in the previous version). In addition, I believe we will have the opportunity to change Leia's behaviour for the better (for example, in the last chapter we can tell her to be nicer to Monica, that's a start). In general I agree with you, at this point in time her behaviour is unacceptable.
Click to expand...
We can certainly fix it. Their story/backdrop...which for me, 'is' the story...everything else, drugs, gangs etc is just a backdrop. We already know she a LI...it's just really now how we actually get to that point and whether it will be more divisive or loving/romantic in nature.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Katie4Ever and BobTheDuck
B

BulgariAMARA

Active Member
Apr 10, 2023
627
1,249
Wow. I found this game for the first time today, I liked the game and the music too. Guys, maybe I made the wrong choice in the game, and that's why I had so few sex scenes, or are there really few of them in the game?
There are a lot of interesting tags in this game and they are completely unrealized. For a game that is more than five years old, this is bad.
Please tell me, does it make sense to download the old version of the game or is it not necessary?
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: Abhai and BobTheDuck
BobTheDuck

BobTheDuck

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
2,146
12,629
BulgariAMARA said:
Wow. I found this game for the first time today, I liked the game and the music too. Guys, maybe I made the wrong choice in the game, and that's why I had so few sex scenes, or are there really few of them in the game?
There are a lot of interesting tags in this game and they are completely unrealized. For a game that is more than five years old, this is bad.
Please tell me, does it make sense to download the old version of the game or is it not necessary?
Click to expand...
There are only a couple of sex scenes in the current game, which was reworked completely from scratch at the end of 2021, since then you have development of 1 chapter released a year roughly. Ocean's games are meant to be a slow burn, where the sex scenes are part of the story, not the main point. The plot of the story will develop more content, but there are over 20 chapters planned. Do not expect the story to suddenly explode with lewd scenes in the next release. They have to make sense in the context of the story.

The old version is now a curiousity - you can download an play it to get an idea of what kind of content there might be in the future of the current game. Keep in mind that the old game is no longer canon, and Ocean is able to change whatever he didn't like about the old version (new Miru is grateful to be reworked!), including plot details. The basic story is very similar as are the characters, but the old version is more a traditional AVN in style, while the current version is more cinematic in aesthetic.

At least half the development time has been scrapped because 6 chapters worth of work have been scrapped as a false start.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BulgariAMARA
J

Juicer97

Active Member
Jun 2, 2022
513
760
This and summer's gone is a 20 year development cycle game. I wonder how many graphical iterations this will undergo in the future.
 
yossa999

yossa999

Engaged Member
Dec 5, 2020
2,791
18,737
Juicer97 said:
This and summer's gone is a 20 year development cycle game. I wonder how many graphical iterations this will undergo in the future.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's just amazing, I know! The developer has prepared our favorite content for 20 years ahead! And every year the graphics will get better and better. And when he finally masters Blender and starts making awesome animations in it! Mmmm... :BootyTime: :BootyTime: :BootyTime:
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: Great Teacher Onizuka, xCalon and BobTheDuck
BobTheDuck

BobTheDuck

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
2,146
12,629
yossa999 said:
Yes, it's just amazing, I know! The developer has prepared our favorite content for 20 years ahead! And every year the graphics will get better and better. And when he finally masters Blender and starts making awesome animations in it! Mmmm... :BootyTime: :BootyTime: :BootyTime:
Click to expand...
This is the way :cool:

Also, I think it's worth considering that once something has a full release on normal commercial platforms (like season 1 from SG on steam imminently) it's really hard to take it back. Sure you can update, but you'll never make a first impression again, review wise, and steam players will be needing a quicker development cycle than patrons to keep engaged. I expect that Ocean will grow and develop, because it's boring to stay the same, and he'll have to keep up with the pace that steam will set for him. He'll improve and so will the games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Great Teacher Onizuka, Maviarab, xCalon and 1 other person
BobTheDuck

BobTheDuck

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
2,146
12,629
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: hermit_tr, nobody0 and Maviarab
sorco2003

sorco2003

Engaged Member
Donor
Sep 3, 2020
2,039
14,905
BobTheDuck said:
Even if she is rich, she is so unpretentious in this version, I really like the way Ocean's developed her personality. The previous one, she seemed out of place on the camping trip.
Click to expand...
and yes, in the previous version everything seemed out of place because Ocean was doing what he wanted, even broke the story several times just to try (and the last time to move to the rework).
And this eliminated the story of Emily, who is coming back but with the background that William and Leia bullied her for being fat (or something like that I had read in discord).
 
  • Like
Reactions: yossa999 and BobTheDuck
LHDLLB

LHDLLB

Active Member
Oct 3, 2019
829
1,906
Zeniks1895 said:
If she's a virgin then what she said to Katie doesn't make her a hypocrite. Leia knows she's good looking plus she's self-confident enough to think she can seduce anyone. She just doesn't need to since she's only interested in our protagonist. She sees her female employees as useful tools to achieve her goals and uses them accordingly, I don't understand how this makes her a hypocrite. However, if she is not a virgin then her attitude towards William is really quite hypocritical. Actually the fact that she wasn't a virgin in the previous version is quite strange and illogical, given all her obsession with the protagonist. I could totally understand if Katie already had some experience but in Leia's case it's weird and doesn't fit her character. I hope that in the new version Ocean will correct this unfortunate misunderstanding.
Click to expand...
I don't really see how she can be hypocrite in either scenario, the first you already made a great point. the second, William left with out saying goodbye and with out much of a reason, I don't see how would be hypocritical of her to had sex or casual relationship with other mens int he years that William was away. I don't think that she needs to be or not a virgin, this depends on what direction Ocean wants her character to go, but it certainly does not make her a hypocrite.

Zeniks1895 said:
It was illogical (given that she has a girlfriend and that we ourselves saw some worm hit on her in the bar), unfair and humiliating, but not hypocritical. We will still have the opportunity to fix the relationship between them(at least that was the case in the previous version). In addition, I believe we will have the opportunity to change Leia's behavior for the better (for example, in the last chapter we can tell her to be nicer to Monica, that's a start). In general I agree with you, at this point in time her behaviour is unacceptable.
Click to expand...
Regarding Leia's behavior, I think that's a lot to unpack there and we certainly does not have enough information to do so.

But the fun is trying to understanding. I think that is valuable exercise to trying to understand how much of Leia's behavior is a response to William's. It is difficult to understand the timeline, but we know that at some point William and Leia had a relationship and we also know that young William was not the best William.

I don't believe that William gave Leia the kind of securance that he now gives Miru, that combine with the jealousy nature of Leia created many problems for them. So William had girls trowing themselves at him and Leia had no confidence in him that he could resist, so she in turn was hostile to anyone that showed interest in him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
4.20 star(s) 198 Votes