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4.30 star(s) 194 Votes

RNasc4444

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Aug 16, 2022
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Frankly, this view of the game seems a little strange to me. As if the presence of canonical elements in the story is something bad. Here's another canonical element - the actions of SG will also take place in Wollust. And that means it won't be washed away by a flood, it won't be destroyed by a hurricane, it won't burn in a fire. I don't even know if I feel lack of freedom because of such a canonical handicap. :Kappa:
Honestly I don't understand how you guys can even guess, discuss or theorize based on the assumption that this game or the other one have ANY cannonical elements whatsoever. Need I mention again that at some point it was canon for Maja and the chubby cripple I can't remember the name right now to not be sisters? At some point Leia and William being related to Katie, Dylan and Stay Puft was canon. At some point Nojiko's last name being Cyrus was canon. Among dozens of other examples.

I know you hate me for pointing this out but nothing in this shitshow of a story should ever be taken as canon given the dev's track record. I don't think canon is bad, on the contrary. Any story needs immutable elements. A damn foundation that we can take for granted. This has none. We do have a canonical handicap, more than most people realize or even care about, sadly.
 

Machete

Engaged Member
Apr 7, 2020
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I know you hate me for pointing this out but nothing in this shitshow of a story should ever be taken as canon given the dev's track record.
Eventually this game will either be complete or abandoned. I guess whatever the story is at that point would be the canon. I mean, it's not disney. No one will make lame sequels/prequels/inbetweenquels that lose the audience and make the company lose billions.
 

theduke9999

Member
Jan 3, 2022
147
90
Eventually this game will either be complete or abandoned. I guess whatever the story is at that point would be the canon. I mean, it's not disney. No one will make lame sequels/prequels/inbetweenquels that lose the audience and make the company lose billions.
i dont think wiab will ever get abandoned.. after the next update i could see a pause while ocean finishes SG which is bank rolling it then when there is nothing everyone will be all over WIAB to be continued , hence the bankroll coming back .. this is 5 to ten years from now but thats what im guessing
 

Machete

Engaged Member
Apr 7, 2020
2,420
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i dont think wiab will ever get abandoned..
I sure hope not, it's a very good story. Yet the time needed for this games to get to the point is unacceptable. I can see the whole VN market to contract to a minuscule niche before several of the 'main titles' see the end.
 
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hickdx3

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Jan 21, 2022
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I would recommend just forget about this game for next 5-6 years for 2 maybe 3 updates and reworks this same with SG or not
 

KiryuKazuma095

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Apr 30, 2023
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I sure hope not, it's a very good story. Yet the time needed for this games to get to the point is unacceptable. I can see the whole VN market to contract to a minuscule niche before several of the 'main titles' see the end.
It will be a shame if it gets abandoned, it has a pretty good story so far
 
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BobTheDuck

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Dec 24, 2018
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Honestly I don't understand how you guys can even guess, discuss or theorize based on the assumption that this game or the other one have ANY cannonical elements whatsoever. Need I mention again that at some point it was canon for Maja and the chubby cripple I can't remember the name right now to not be sisters? At some point Leia and William being related to Katie, Dylan and Stay Puft was canon. At some point Nojiko's last name being Cyrus was canon. Among dozens of other examples.

I know you hate me for pointing this out but nothing in this shitshow of a story should ever be taken as canon given the dev's track record. I don't think canon is bad, on the contrary. Any story needs immutable elements. A damn foundation that we can take for granted. This has none. We do have a canonical handicap, more than most people realize or even care about, sadly.
To be honest, at this point, trying to make sense of it all is a fun game too, even if I'd prefer a nice fresh Ch4 to play :coffee::whistle:
 

RNasc4444

Active Member
Aug 16, 2022
910
3,760
To be honest, at this point, trying to make sense of it all is a fun game too, even if I'd prefer a nice fresh Ch4 to play :coffee::whistle:
True. It is a way to keep the thread and discussion going until the next update drops. It just bothers me that I find it hard to engage because it seems kinda futile to me :confused:

Also, while I think WiAB is in dire need of a new update, given how long ago the last one was, I also would prefer if Ocean just took the time to tidy up the entire narrative so far with the new relationship dynamic all sorted out before new content comes out.
 

theduke9999

Member
Jan 3, 2022
147
90
True. It is a way to keep the thread and discussion going until the next update drops. It just bothers me that I find it hard to engage because it seems kinda futile to me :confused:

Also, while I think WiAB is in dire need of a new update, given how long ago the last one was, I also would prefer if Ocean just took the time to tidy up the entire narrative so far with the new relationship dynamic all sorted out before new content comes out.
if he does that you wont see an update until christmas... next year
 
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LHDLLB

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Oct 3, 2019
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Ah it's all good, there's a lot to get mixed up, Ocean does it too. I'm mixing it up myself trying to straighten it out. :sneaky:

- Ocean doesn't have to make their lineage a plot point, but it's an easy way to avoid uncertainty. Half the theories in SG are Nika or Summer or Sasha being victims of mob warfare and being fostered out anyway (regardless of whether they're right or wrong). I kinda suspect there will be a personal angle to the antagonist in some fashion, the way the religious camps are mentioned with the grandma (well, who they thought was their grandma), the weirdness of Helen being targeted rather than Leia (much easier to go for the throat), even Willi recognises the spiders are a weird and dumb intimidation tactic. It suggests to me there's some connection pre-existing Leia's businesses.

- I don't think we're seeing the real Leia 100% either, but she is a character owned by her resentment of William (and to some extent Katie). That switch she can't control, which implies her self control is fragile. Not just because of William - whatever she cares about the way she cares for William will become a weak point. She acts disinterested and cold to hide what she cares about. However, the fight with Miru shows that she can learn, and her backing down regarding Mon suggests she can accept her own prejudice. If she can overcome her prejudicial thinking, she'll have better success. Her business doesn't affect her sense of self control, because she doesn't care about it for itself, it's a means, so it's more telling to see how she reacts to what affects her personally.

- Yep, William is generally characterised negatively because of the way decade-ago-teen-William acted as though a decade (partially spent in prison and working to better himself) won't have any significant change. Who at 25 doesn't cringe when they think of themselves at 15? The problem isn't that William is so bad, but the circumstances were extreme. The point that he has won the loyalty of two very good women (Miru and Daphne both seem to be 'good' in a morally ambivalent universe and they both supported William through his bad times) I think gets lost. Daphne's character really points this out - she's acting like it's a break up, despite not having ever had any of WIlliam's loving, at least not for 5 years. At their age, 5 years is a long time to wait if she's hoping William will leave Miru.

- Baby math - if Wiab is 20 years before SG, the oldest child conceived by Willi (during WiaB) can be 19 and 3 months from the start of WiaB (the first sex scene). We're assuming everyone in the SG class is 18 or older (ToS). If Ayua is the same age as Nika (given 20 years between the games), She's have to be conceived no later than 6 months after Adri's born, in order to be ToS compliant. There is no time for any further sisters that are older than 18. Maybe Miru is pregnant at the start of WiaB and doesn't know, given her physical shape, that would add maybe 3 months at most? That would mean she could breed three is she's kept pregnant the whole time. Of course, all the other characters could be Willilings, but they are the same age as Ayua - remember Jeff saying they all went to the same highschool, that's how they know each other, and they're all starting college at the same time. This timeline makes Vanessa, Nami and Adri 9 months to a year older. Vanessa then can't be William's unless he meets Nick and cucks him pretty darn soon. Again, that would mean that Vanessa's mom stays pregnant for two kids. Vanessa might already be born at the start of WiaB.

If they are all connected in some way, Ocean needs to have a greater than 20 year gap. It's currently pretty implausible as Leia's not in a relationship (implied) and Willi doesn't know that he has any wild oats yet. Also, Vanessa and Nika being Willi or Leia's offspring is mutually exclusive to Vanessa being a LI in SG - if either one has 'Zane' heritage (I guess that's what we'll call it until we find out in Ch4 what's going on), it precludes Vanessa being a LI.

- The earrings are a plot point, because they're mentioned in multiple chapters by different people. Back when WiaB was first done, Leia's earring stood out (once she got them). Ocean used them on another character that is no longer in WiaB, but they've become part of Leia's identity in WiaB. in SG:
- Nami mentions she was given it by a female stranger, so not someone she knew, like SUmmer's mom, or aunt.
- Sasha wants to know about it, if it was common, she'd not be interested. She has money enough to know they're not common earrings
- Ayua stops Sasha from questioning Nami about them
- Vanessa also knows a lot about jewellery, and knows they are uncommon, and thinks she's seen them before.
- None of the other girls comment, because to Nia, Vic, Mila Sonya, the earring means nothing, it's just an earring.

I agree that clothing models and hairstyles generally aren't clues (except for potentially Leia's buns in the old flashback compared to early Summer's, coupled with the bibi word which was Leia, William and Katie's word first).
- Bloodlines. I can see from where you are coming from, I have wondered why Helen was target but always assumed she was colateral damage to a hit meant for Leia, that the Organization cover up. It also can be the case that Helen knows a lot more than we might think. But I never thought about it being personal, don't know how I feel about it. So Helen accident was not because of Leia but because Dylan and Helen or Leia make it personal first ?

- Leia. I don't think that her self control is fragile. At the club scene in the last update, there are 10 girl that Emilio is talking to, only 3 are new the rest works for Leia to a no explicit amount of time, so out of 10 girl only the Japanese -Ryru ?- did not needed to me instructed by Emilio to keep her head down. If Leia lashing out screening was a common thing it would Emilio would not need to pass instruction if anything they seemed surprised. Even if she does not dies of love for Katie she maintain a somewhat good relationship with her, and Leia does has great reason to hare Katie, Katie does not goes under her skin. For the rest I agree.

- William. Yeah, again I agree. I think that as the story progress people will lose their dislike for him, once he starts acting like a teenager. Just want to point out that Daphne reminds me a lot of Nami, not only physically, but emotionally. Both of them has abandonment issues and choose to tag along hoping to be noticed by the guy who is in love with another woman, wonder if this is a coincidense or not.

- Yeah. It adds up. Personally I don't think that Vanessa is Leia our William's daughter. About the assets and all I agree. But if we are considering old Leia buns and summer should not we consider OG young WIlliam and Nika ?

Sure, I get that, but essentially there will be some form of a canon ending, precisely because it's the 'good' ending that Ocean envisaged. The ending where Willi goes monk and just brutalises the gang without any hanky panky won't make sense the second you load up SG. So I can either play the story I want as stand alone, or realise that the other endings exist becaus people want to play different ways.

I honestly don't know how Ocean would avoid making anything canon, because there are already significant choices that we know the outcomes to, and it is impossible to pretend we don't know that Emilio, Katie and Stefan survive. It's impossible for us not to know that a Zane got pregnant, as well as a Petrova, as well as Revera. We also know that Ocean won't risk any of the LI's in SG being related, so if Nika is Willi or Leia's, none of the other LI's can be. I don't think Ocean's going to risk that as a possibility now.

My thought is that the multiple paths will mean that there are different ways to get to the end, some kinkier than others, some riskier than others. But all the different endings will fit the facts of SG. Otherwise he wouldn't plan on importing saves from WiaB to flavour SG. Knowing that he mentioned they will flavour the script, the variables he's talking won't effect the facts of SG's core story.
So the same outcome but different roads leading to it ? It could work but I think it removes some of the stakes and diminishes the choices, lets say that you fucked up and Miru is cheating William with the whole town, in the end they make peace and marry ? I prefer Ocean just picking one end as canon and moving one, lot of videos games do the same. Still can have WiaB as its on thing with out being burdened by SG. Regarding the kinship of the LIs, I don't think that Ocean will risk it either, but I left to wonder what the original intent was and if it has change since them how he will address it.

Aye...the original trilogy. Which opens an even more terrible question.....

Will he a pull complete Lucas and when he inevitibly makes the prequels to WIAB...will he change everything in WIAB....and ultimately...did Gigachad Will shoot his load first? :WeSmart: :sneaky: :ROFLMAO:

I would say that Ocean was so inspired that he did not waited to finished it first before he makes changes. He remake the original, than started the squeal, them remake the squeal, to later change the remake of the original. So he elevated the storytelling to the schrödinger load, the load was shoot and not shoot at the same time and you only known the moment you boot the most recent version of the game.
 

BobTheDuck

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2018
1,686
9,254
- Bloodlines. I can see from where you are coming from, I have wondered why Helen was target but always assumed she was colateral damage to a hit meant for Leia, that the Organization cover up. It also can be the case that Helen knows a lot more than we might think. But I never thought about it being personal, don't know how I feel about it. So Helen accident was not because of Leia but because Dylan and Helen or Leia make it personal first ?

- Leia. I don't think that her self control is fragile. At the club scene in the last update, there are 10 girl that Emilio is talking to, only 3 are new the rest works for Leia to a no explicit amount of time, so out of 10 girl only the Japanese -Ryru ?- did not needed to me instructed by Emilio to keep her head down. If Leia lashing out screening was a common thing it would Emilio would not need to pass instruction if anything they seemed surprised. Even if she does not dies of love for Katie she maintain a somewhat good relationship with her, and Leia does has great reason to hare Katie, Katie does not goes under her skin. For the rest I agree.

- William. Yeah, again I agree. I think that as the story progress people will lose their dislike for him, once he starts acting like a teenager. Just want to point out that Daphne reminds me a lot of Nami, not only physically, but emotionally. Both of them has abandonment issues and choose to tag along hoping to be noticed by the guy who is in love with another woman, wonder if this is a coincidense or not.

- Yeah. It adds up. Personally I don't think that Vanessa is Leia our William's daughter. About the assets and all I agree. But if we are considering old Leia buns and summer should not we consider OG young WIlliam and Nika ?



So the same outcome but different roads leading to it ? It could work but I think it removes some of the stakes and diminishes the choices, lets say that you fucked up and Miru is cheating William with the whole town, in the end they make peace and marry ? I prefer Ocean just picking one end as canon and moving one, lot of videos games do the same. Still can have WiaB as its on thing with out being burdened by SG. Regarding the kinship of the LIs, I don't think that Ocean will risk it either, but I left to wonder what the original intent was and if it has change since them how he will address it.




I would say that Ocean was so inspired that he did not waited to finished it first before he makes changes. He remake the original, than started the squeal, them remake the squeal, to later change the remake of the original. So he elevated the storytelling to the schrödinger load, the load was shoot and not shoot at the same time and you only known the moment you boot the most recent version of the game.
- Bloodlines: I'm not saying that it's true, but to change Willi and Leia's heritage requires Ocean to define where they come from, otherwise at some point, we come back to the same issue. So this is speculation on my part, not sure if Ocean will go in this direction, but it's certainly possible, and answers why the situation is so odd. Krayt don't seem this subtel or ineffective, Asavera would more likely try to do things with more immediate business effects. The relative weirdness of the plot with Helen suggests the people behind it have an ulterior goal than simply harm. The spiders show they could have gotten in and killed everyone in their sleep, so yeah. Something is going on there maybe multiple things. There's also nothing saying the spiders were done by the same group that caused Helen's accident.

- Leia: I'd say yes it is. We'll disagree. Her self control is secondary to her emotions. She tries to keep tight control of them, but when triggered, she lashes out. The other employees also didn't freak out when told not to look, which means that she has regular outbursts, like an abusive alcoholic parent - Emilio tells them not to look at her like a mother telling the child, "don't annoy your father now, come away". This isn't self control. The fact that the majority knew and that Emilio knew what to say rather than be surprised himself means it happens a lot. The inference is she can't stand people seeing someone else having her at an advantage, which means there will be fireworks when she is losing control of her business (if that happens, which will be a good point for plot development, how she regains control).

- Daphne is awesome, both as a character and for the story. She's an important addition to WiaB because she's the only character other than Miru who didn't know William BEFORE he ran away. I wonder if she's the reason William ended up in prison - seeing the old version had the parents of a girl plant jewellery on WIlliam to accuse him of stealing or something to get him away from her, maybe Daphne is a rework of that idea? Both she and Miru make comments about that time, and there's a reason (we don't know) that Miru tolerates her even if she doesn't want Daphne's pheromones anywhere near Willi.

- Of course we should consider that. And consider that young Willi no longer looks like that.

- Outcomes: I see it as the way RPGs do things, and a few AVNs. THe main plot has an ending that doesn't require LI choices to be important to the ending, there might be a good and bad version of this. The characters will likely have epilogue endings, rather than require Ocean to render 8 different endings of the main plot, just put the different path specific choices there, probably good or bad endings for each character. I can't imagine the number of renders OCean would require to implement every choice in game in any one ending, so they will be streamlined. Regardless of what ending you get, Ayua is still born, so that has to be part of the main canon, because she exists in SG, it's the shared universe. Same for any of the mutually exclusiv options for SG. Those will have to be tied down, or player choices get ignored when importing to SG. If they were stand alone, Willi, Leia and Katie wouldn't exist in SG, and the town wouldn't be called Wollust. We're playing a game that has a canon, it is that simple. The path from here where we know nothing, to get to the conditions for SG still allow for epic fuckery of plot. And then there's a 20 year buffer, where the SG characters are conceived. So people's canon might be for the end of WiaB, but seriously, knowing AYua is a person will affect how you think of the outcome. If you don't like MIru, you'll resent that at some point you'll conceive Ayua, or you'll feel bad about cheating because you know Willi will still get it on with Miru in the gap between stories.

Unless of course Miru takes Willi to a sperm clinic to preserve his juice.
 

LHDLLB

Member
Oct 3, 2019
340
673
- Bloodlines: I'm not saying that it's true, but to change Willi and Leia's heritage requires Ocean to define where they come from, otherwise at some point, we come back to the same issue. So this is speculation on my part, not sure if Ocean will go in this direction, but it's certainly possible, and answers why the situation is so odd. Krayt don't seem this subtel or ineffective, Asavera would more likely try to do things with more immediate business effects. The relative weirdness of the plot with Helen suggests the people behind it have an ulterior goal than simply harm. The spiders show they could have gotten in and killed everyone in their sleep, so yeah. Something is going on there maybe multiple things. There's also nothing saying the spiders were done by the same group that caused Helen's accident.

- Leia: I'd say yes it is. We'll disagree. Her self control is secondary to her emotions. She tries to keep tight control of them, but when triggered, she lashes out. The other employees also didn't freak out when told not to look, which means that she has regular outbursts, like an abusive alcoholic parent - Emilio tells them not to look at her like a mother telling the child, "don't annoy your father now, come away". This isn't self control. The fact that the majority knew and that Emilio knew what to say rather than be surprised himself means it happens a lot. The inference is she can't stand people seeing someone else having her at an advantage, which means there will be fireworks when she is losing control of her business (if that happens, which will be a good point for plot development, how she regains control).

- Daphne is awesome, both as a character and for the story. She's an important addition to WiaB because she's the only character other than Miru who didn't know William BEFORE he ran away. I wonder if she's the reason William ended up in prison - seeing the old version had the parents of a girl plant jewellery on WIlliam to accuse him of stealing or something to get him away from her, maybe Daphne is a rework of that idea? Both she and Miru make comments about that time, and there's a reason (we don't know) that Miru tolerates her even if she doesn't want Daphne's pheromones anywhere near Willi.

- Of course we should consider that. And consider that young Willi no longer looks like that.

- Outcomes: I see it as the way RPGs do things, and a few AVNs. THe main plot has an ending that doesn't require LI choices to be important to the ending, there might be a good and bad version of this. The characters will likely have epilogue endings, rather than require Ocean to render 8 different endings of the main plot, just put the different path specific choices there, probably good or bad endings for each character. I can't imagine the number of renders OCean would require to implement every choice in game in any one ending, so they will be streamlined. Regardless of what ending you get, Ayua is still born, so that has to be part of the main canon, because she exists in SG, it's the shared universe. Same for any of the mutually exclusiv options for SG. Those will have to be tied down, or player choices get ignored when importing to SG. If they were stand alone, Willi, Leia and Katie wouldn't exist in SG, and the town wouldn't be called Wollust. We're playing a game that has a canon, it is that simple. The path from here where we know nothing, to get to the conditions for SG still allow for epic fuckery of plot. And then there's a 20 year buffer, where the SG characters are conceived. So people's canon might be for the end of WiaB, but seriously, knowing AYua is a person will affect how you think of the outcome. If you don't like MIru, you'll resent that at some point you'll conceive Ayua, or you'll feel bad about cheating because you know Willi will still get it on with Miru in the gap between stories.

Unless of course Miru takes Willi to a sperm clinic to preserve his juice.
- Bloodlines. Yeah I can see your point, just it would require further change of the script as I don't think that William and Leia having relations with the antagonist was the original plan. Regarding Helen weirdness. Everything about it is weird, including the fact that she just went mude, it honestly feels kinda silly, I don't know if there are a real life condition such as Helen but it was always something that I had to roll with. The spider thing is quite odd, so far I am holding judgment on that, I agree with what you are saying that it has a ulterior motive I just can't make sense as to why or how.

-Leia. Disagreement is fine, welcomed even. I could go further on my reasoning but I don't think it would accomplish much beyond we going backing and forth over why we think the things we think. I agree about the idea of Leia losing the businesses being a interesting plot point. As I said, Leia is either 10 steps ahead or 20 behind, both offers interesting path to the plot to unravel, and I really don't know with one I like more.

- Daphne. I largely agree, she offers a good perspective over William character, but I had a better impression over her family, I think that they helped William in some way before or immediately after the prison. I like your idea though, she somehow being a factor that brought him to jail, although I don't think we need too deep of a reason to that, William was young and kinda dumb, I can see he doing something really stupid that blowed on his face.

- About Leia buns. My point was that is better to forget OG WiaB, Leia's buns young Nika, Selicia - was that her name ?- aside from maybe some plot points and futures kinky I don't think that there are much in there. The bibi word though is something else, it kinda funnels down that either Nika and Nami or Summer had early interactions with the Zanes.

-Outcomes. I can see what you are saying but this is SG. What I am saying is that I am fine with Ayua existing as canon, and in my run of WiaB I dumping Miru at the first opportunity have never touched her, thus rendering her impossible . I don't think that WiaB needs to be burdened by SG to the point of now allowing other outcome other than the one that springs SG. It may be a matter of perspective, like when you have different paths but considers one canon and the other don't. Can have a path where William fucks the entire town or one where he is cucked by everybody, but Ocean canonized one, and this is the one we have moving forward. Is not that I think my view is better than yours, both could work well, I just don't like the ideia of limiting the ways the story could unfold to fit in one universal ending.

Give how bad is Miru baby fever I would not put it pass her
 

BobTheDuck

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2018
1,686
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- Bloodlines. Yeah I can see your point, just it would require further change of the script as I don't think that William and Leia having relations with the antagonist was the original plan. Regarding Helen weirdness. Everything about it is weird, including the fact that she just went mude, it honestly feels kinda silly, I don't know if there are a real life condition such as Helen but it was always something that I had to roll with. The spider thing is quite odd, so far I am holding judgment on that, I agree with what you are saying that it has a ulterior motive I just can't make sense as to why or how.

-Leia. Disagreement is fine, welcomed even. I could go further on my reasoning but I don't think it would accomplish much beyond we going backing and forth over why we think the things we think. I agree about the idea of Leia losing the businesses being a interesting plot point. As I said, Leia is either 10 steps ahead or 20 behind, both offers interesting path to the plot to unravel, and I really don't know with one I like more.

- Daphne. I largely agree, she offers a good perspective over William character, but I had a better impression over her family, I think that they helped William in some way before or immediately after the prison. I like your idea though, she somehow being a factor that brought him to jail, although I don't think we need too deep of a reason to that, William was young and kinda dumb, I can see he doing something really stupid that blowed on his face.

- About Leia buns. My point was that is better to forget OG WiaB, Leia's buns young Nika, Selicia - was that her name ?- aside from maybe some plot points and futures kinky I don't think that there are much in there. The bibi word though is something else, it kinda funnels down that either Nika and Nami or Summer had early interactions with the Zanes.

-Outcomes. I can see what you are saying but this is SG. What I am saying is that I am fine with Ayua existing as canon, and in my run of WiaB I dumping Miru at the first opportunity have never touched her, thus rendering her impossible . I don't think that WiaB needs to be burdened by SG to the point of now allowing other outcome other than the one that springs SG. It may be a matter of perspective, like when you have different paths but considers one canon and the other don't. Can have a path where William fucks the entire town or one where he is cucked by everybody, but Ocean canonized one, and this is the one we have moving forward. Is not that I think my view is better than yours, both could work well, I just don't like the ideia of limiting the ways the story could unfold to fit in one universal ending.

Give how bad is Miru baby fever I would not put it pass her
- It wouldn't require changes of the published script, because we know nothing about it yet. Also, it's all rather odd because we don't see the cause, only the results. Hopefully the cause makes sense.

- :cool:

- The Daphne thing, we don't know what happened either, I merely mentioned in the previous version there was conflict over the first girl he met. Maybe Daphne was the first girl he met, and that's why she's still holding out for him, maybe she's the one who helped him through prison now? We don't know if Willi met Miru in prison or not any more, we can only make assumptions. I think Ocean's repurposed the role of Willi's first friend outside of Wollust and made Daphne's role out of that, but who knows what plot she has? So far her role is generally just being awesome at a distance :cry:

- I think the Leia buns could still have import. I mean maybe not as Nami says "it's only a hairstyle", but even there it has meaning - she's doing it to emulate Summer to draw Nika's eye. So in the same way, maybe there is meaning, to draw our attention to links, even if red herrings. The bibi word and earrings are important to show the links in SG to WiaB though, that is very clear. Also, with the earrings, splitting them up shows that it was premeditated who would get them. This isn't someone randomly chucking away their earrings. The decided to give them to two separate people.

- About outcomes. Some people knowing there is a 'sequel' and having played the sequel first will hate that they know certain things. Other people will see the connections as easter eggs. This is only a problem because Ocean is developing the seconf game at the same time as the first. I actually like it and have no problem with knowing things Willi doesn't. I got a thrill seeing Emilio in WiaB, and now I know things Nika doesn't. Playing WiaB tells me things about SG and vice versa, so I enjoy the sleuthing of it, seeing how the pieces come together. The problem is as you say - if you deny Miru sex the whole time, certain characters don't make sense. I can do that as a gameplay choice, but it defeats Ocean's intent of having the two stories dovetail. Ultimately people can enjoy the games they way they wish.

The problem lies with inconsistency between the experience of the shared universe, so players of only one or the other game will be content. people playing both and seeing both as two halves to a whole end up making choices influenced by the other game, and that can lessen the elements of risk. This is more an observation of why the co-development is a difficult problem. Think about it when we're in season 4 of both games - OCean has to frogleap with revelations between games to avoid giving away the pinnacle of his stories accidentally.
 

sorco2003

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2020
1,807
13,412
Very interesting exchange between BobTheDuck and LHDLLB ... It's nice to read so much passion in trying to make sense of a lot of things that are a ToS away from changing.

In my case I prefer to analyze the canon issue from real life, as the in-game story has been shown to have nothing assured.

The old mentions to the canon issue said that Ocean, as he himself said, is that all the stories that followed after WIAB were built by a canon path and ending (he even said that it was a good ending). As time went on, Ocean opted for “immovable elements” (which we all have as an example Ayua), things that happen in all possible routes regardless of the ending obtained. Even in his approach to exporting saves he talked about enriching the dialogues of SG with the chosen LI (thus implying that no ending is significant, only the elements he takes to tell the next story are significant).

Given that real life got in the way, much of this should no longer be taken into account, I think. Today any canon element involving William and Leia is dangerous for the survival of both projects.



- I would like to elaborate a bit more about some points, the bloodline, I fully agree with Bob, not only is it necessary to establish where they come from (who were William and Leia's biological parents) but it must be believable in their own universe. Leaving such a fundamental piece of information in the dark would come too close to harming SG for ToS (patreon already uses everything as proof, even our crazy theories). A comic book writer from my country, whom I admire a lot used to say “you have to know everything about your character, if he sleeps on the left or right side, if he drinks mate, if he drinks mate sweet, what team he is a fan of? everything... even if you never use it”.
-Leia, I agree with Bob again... everything makes me think that Leia is a volcano in continuous eruption, from the chats with old friends to Emilio's words...
-Daphne... she only gets the benefit of the doubt, interpreting her as an interesting character just because of the lack of real development is not to my taste.
-William... WIAB seems to have a parodic and absurd tone, so any definition about William is at least hasty... is he that genius who escaped and was not found? or is he that idiot of the spiders' plan? is he the supreme strategist who notices Donna from the beginning or the one who together with Katie passed for idiots for not knowing about the farm? There is a lot to be said in this section, and now we have to add the mystery of his biological family
And last but not least, I once read that season 1 of SG ended up being the way it is because of the need to weave history between already established points, I get the feeling that is what always happens, OCean advances, realizes something and tries to solve with retcon weaving explanations to serve him in the past linking with the present and that fits with the future he wants... That, my friends, is attentive to the general quality, but above all it is attentive to the theories about the canon.
 

RNasc4444

Active Member
Aug 16, 2022
910
3,760
Regardless of what ending you get, Ayua is still born, so that has to be part of the main canon, because she exists in SG, it's the shared universe.
So people's canon might be for the end of WiaB, but seriously, knowing AYua is a person will affect how you think of the outcome. If you don't like MIru, you'll resent that at some point you'll conceive Ayua, or you'll feel bad about cheating because you know Willi will still get it on with Miru in the gap between stories.
As time went on, Ocean opted for “immovable elements” (which we all have as an example Ayua), things that happen in all possible routes regardless of the ending obtained.
In line with what I've been saying, I'll just add that Ayua is one surname change away from being this "constant" or "immovable element" that binds the canon of SG and WiAB together. Noji went from Cyrus to Miyazaki from one update to the next with no explanation. The same could happen to Ayua. And if it does then she literally becomes insignificant to the overarching plot that unites both stories. She is only relevant for however long she remains a Zane.
 

xmagic

Newbie
Jul 27, 2018
82
45
I saw that the dev keeps updating his subscribestar with dev logs about chapter 4, does anyone have any information about these posts? why is it taking so long? is the new update coming soon?
 
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