VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[Maviarab]

stares at you a beat longer

Not an improvement...no one in the real word talks like that. There is no improvement there...at all.

Changing dialogue to make family again and what that entails. Fine. You may as well make your own AVN with changing things that just do not need changing. Your mod is basically, WIAB [CH.4] [Alain88911] and iirc, even in your changelog notes, you do not state you have basically rewritten the entire VN to how you 'think' it should be written. That's not a 'mod'...it's a game rewrite.

It's no longer Oceans.

 

[jadepaladin]

Not an improvement...no one in the real word talks like that.

Changing dialogue to make family again and what that entails. fine. You make as well make your AVn with changing things that just do not need changing. Your mod is basically, WIAB [CH.4 - Alain88911].

It's no longer Oceans.

Farewell, Senior Mav. I must depart, my cat is eating the furniture. I shall place a key underneath my mat of welcoming +3 so that you may engage with my domesticated beasts of burden.

Ocean, probably^

 

[sorco2003]

Farewell, Senior Mav. I must depart, my cat is eating the furniture. I shall place a key underneath my mat of welcoming +3 so that you may engage with my domesticated beasts of burden.

Ocean, probably^

While I understand the joke and the point it makes, in this particular case "see ya" doesn't work in context.... Would Daphne be as suspicious of a "see ya" as she is of a "goodbye"?

 

[RNasc4444]

It's no longer Oceans.

But seriously aren't you British? And if so, doesn't Ocean's sentence structuring and grammar send you up a goddamn wall??!?!?! I've been praying for years for the guy to get a damn English proofreader because reading his scripts annoys me to no end. And English isn't even my first or second language!!!! I edited over 120 lines of text myself for my own personal version and that was me being lazy and only changing the most crucial bits!

 

[alain8891]

Not an improvement...no one in the real word talks like that. There is no improvement there...at all.

Changing dialogue to make family again and what that entails. Fine. You may as well make your own AVN with changing things that just do not need changing. Your mod is basically, WIAB [CH.4] [Alain88911] and iirc, even in your changelog notes, you do not state you have basically rewritten the entire VN to how you 'think' it should be written. That's not a 'mod'...it's a game rewrite.

It's no longer Oceans.

The phrase you're quoting is narration, not actual dialogue between characters. Sure no one speaks in the real world like that. That's because it's, again, narration. And I stand by my initial comment that it's better (to me at least) than the original.

And even if that part was not narration, would you claim that people would talk like " "Daphne looks at you for a second longer than usual" in real-life? Come on, you gotta be kidding...

Is the dialog and narration still Ocean's? Of course not, it's no longer since I've REWRITTEN a large portion of it. I've never claimed otherwise. But I've also always said that characterization, plot, dynamics, etc...were left unchanged.

My mod notes clearly state, and I quote, that "The whole game dialog has been rewritten to flow more naturally while preserving all aspects of the story and character dynamics. It now just “feels right”. That’s the intent, at least..."
So you can at least give me credit for being honest about what my mod is. If people can't or won't read a mod description, I dare say it's not my fault.

They are literally dozens of other games on here that have "rewrite" mods, that even go as far as changing parts of the story, or "english improvement" mods. Wanna have a go at them too? Be my guest. But please, at least have the honesty to realize that because you don't like what I did here, doesn't mean I've deceived anyone on purpose with my work.

 

[jadepaladin]

While I understand the joke and the point it makes, in this particular case "see ya" doesn't work in context.... Would Daphne be as suspicious of a "see ya" as she is of a "goodbye"?

Oh I agree 100%. I just couldn't miss a chance to mess with Mav.

Reading what Alain wrote didn't feel like I was reading for Will. If it was some other VN with another character I probably wouldn't have given it a second thought.

 

[alain8891]

While I understand the joke and the point it makes, in this particular case "see ya" doesn't work in context.... Would Daphne be as suspicious of a "see ya" as she is of a "goodbye"?

I reckon it works even better with "see ya". With "goodbye" there's less of an ambiguity in the fact she might never see him again...

 

[Maviarab]

But seriously aren't you British? And if so, doesn't Ocean's sentence structuring and grammar send you up a goddamn wall??!?!?! I've been praying for years for the guy to get a damn English proofreader because reading his scripts annoys me to no end. And English isn't even my first or second language!!!! I edited over 120 lines of text myself for my own personal version and that was me being lazy and only changing the most crucial bits!

LOL...

I accept his style of writing for what it is. Sure there is a lot I would change, but without knowing 'exactly' what his 'intent' is....that's difficult, because it then becomes 'your opinion'.

I proofread for two other VN's and if in any doubt as intetion, I ask them directly so I'm not changing shit just because I don't like it.

 

[sorco2003]

I reckon it works even better with "see ya". With "goodbye" there's less of an ambiguity in the fact she might never see him again...

Precisely, that's the idea, the "see ya" would no longer bring everything that happens afterwards, since there would be no indication that William would never come back. It just doesn't work.

 

[alain8891]

Oh I agree 100%. I just couldn't miss a chance to mess with Mav.

Reading what Alain wrote didn't feel like I was reading for Will. If it was some other VN with another character I probably wouldn't have given it a second thought.

Well we agree to disagree on this one here then.
But please, let's just agree that Ocean's writing is pretty poor and we can leave it at that.

And since when mods are canon anyway? You guys make me feel like I committed some sort of sacrilege over what is, essentially, just a VN with gorgeous renders and poor writing that was literally screaming for an overhaul. I went for it, that's all. Is Ocean that much of god figure that his work shall be left untouched?

 

[alain8891]

LOL...

I accept his style of writing for what it is. Sure there is a lot I would change, but without knowing 'exactly' what his 'intent' is....that's difficult, because it then becomes 'your opinion'.

I proofread for two other VN's and if in any doubt as intetion, I ask them directly so I'm not changing shit just because I don't like it.

That's the difference between proofreading and modding. I do proofreading and beta-testing for other VNs too. I would never claim to change anything myself without referring to the devs.

 

[jadepaladin]

Well we agree to disagree on this one here then.
But please, let's just agree that Ocean's writing is pretty poor and we can leave it at that.

And since when mods are canon anyway? You guys make me feel like I committed some sort of sacrilege over what is, essentially, just a VN with gorgeous renders and poor writing that was literally screaming for an overhaul. I went for it, that's all. Is Ocean that much of god figure that his work shall be left untouched?

I get being on the defensive since everyone seems to have something to say about your work but I literally point other people to it. It doesn't work for me for the reason I explained above but it might work for someone else and I leave it up to them to decide.

 

[alain8891]

Precisely, that's the idea, the "see ya" would no longer bring everything that happens afterwards, since there would be no indication that William would never come back. It just doesn't work.

In the broader context of the whole scene William still makes it pretty clear that he MIGHT not come back, as in the original. So I reckon it still works as intented. I'm sorry you don't see it that way, but as I've said before, I'm not trying to make anyone agree that playing the game with my mod is the canon way.

 

[Maviarab]

I would never claim to change anything myself without referring to the devs.

But you have....haven't you? One of the whole points of your mod lol.

 

[alain8891]

I get being on the defensive since everyone seems to have something to say about your work but I literally point other people to it. It doesn't work for me for the reason I explained above but it might work for someone else and I leave it up to them to decide.

Fair enough and thank you for that. Sorry if I feel like I'm on the defensive (well, it is my work after all), I perfectly understand why some, if not most of the players would want to keep true to the original scripting. I just felt like some of the criticism was a bit harsh if not plain factually wrong...

 

[alain8891]

But you have....haven't you? One of the whole points of your mod lol.

Oh my goodness you're really daft...

 

[sorco2003]

In the broader context of the whole scene William still makes it pretty clear that he MIGHT not come back, as in the original. So I reckon it still works as intented. I'm sorry you don't see it that way, but as I've said before, I'm not trying to make anyone agree that playing the game with my mod is the canon way.

I never said that your mod was canon, I simply said that this phrase does not work, the written word has no intonation, if the "see ya" was complemented with some note about intonation or something like that, I would let it pass. If someone doesn't know the original, they wouldn't come to the conclusion of that conversation in a logical and natural way. In other words, it doesn't work, and since you are the "author" you will logically try to defend your decision, but it doesn't work anyway.
Last comment: once you release your work to the public, everyone can criticize you as you criticize Ocean.
Have a nice day.

 

[alain8891]

I never said that your mod was canon, I simply said that this phrase does not work, the written word has no intonation, if the "see ya" was complemented with some note about intonation or something like that, I would let it pass. If someone doesn't know the original, they wouldn't come to the conclusion of that conversation in a logical and natural way. In other words, it doesn't work, and since you are the "author" you will logically try to defend your decision, but it doesn't work anyway.
Last comment: once you release your work to the public, everyone can criticize you as you criticize Ocean.
Have a nice day.

Thanks, have a nice day too, criticize all you want, like you said, once public, it's only fair game.
Just allow me to disagree with your criticism, just as I allow you to disagree with my choices, I've tried to explain why I feel it still works, you disagree, I don't agree with your explanation above, that's fine, we can all stay chill about it

 

[RNasc4444]

I get being on the defensive since everyone seems to have something to say about your work but I literally point other people to it. It doesn't work for me for the reason I explained above but it might work for someone else and I leave it up to them to decide.

Fully agree. Alain's SG mod is quite literally the only thing the makes the game playable for me. I played Oceans original version and I can say with absolute confidence I wouldn't touch that game without the uncut mod. I couldn't. And I shared this with alain.

As for WiAB...while I do appreciate alain's efforts immensily...it's just polish on a turd Not his fault.

 

[Ratonton]

Here's an example...in Chapter 1, when MC says his goodbyes to Daphne...I'd be honest and say that if you've enjoyed the original, you might not want to replay it again with my mod, unless you wanna go for the Taboo version and/or the additional renders/cinematic. But the script itself wouldn't probably be reason enough for a replay.

Spoiler: My mod

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Spoiler: The original game

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Hollysh*t And I just wanted to know if its worth a replay. As I understand it's use more natural, better english grammar so I will replay it when CH 5 comes out. Probably in 1 year. Or 2. Thanks tho.
Side question? If Ocean is not a native english speaker, why doesn't he hire one who is. For the dialogs I mean.