VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[sorco2003]

Patreon can also shutdown a creators account too without any reason or change their policies out of the blue.

Yes, but between the two, do you choose the one that gives you less money?

 

[John972]

Big mistake if he go on this route, it would destroy the essence of this game in my opinion it would kill the game.

'not really. There's more to the story and the game overall than simply incest. It comes down to how Ocean chooses to alter the relationships while providing a credible explanation to maintain the tension (and apparent taboo) of the Willi/Leia relationship and Willi's reason for leaving. There's a whole range of possible scenarios outside of incest that could be used. For example, perhaps Willi/Leia did something really bad/illegal and Willi jumped ship when he thought Katie would rat them out.

Removing incest is NOT the end of the game. It's just the end of enjoyment for those who play the game predominantly for that kink.

 

[sorco2003]

'not really. There's more to the story and the game overall than simply incest. It comes down to how Ocean chooses to alter the relationships while providing a credible explanation to maintain the tension (and apparent taboo) of the Willi/Leia relationship and Willi's reason for leaving. There's a whole range of possible scenarios outside of incest that could be used. For example, perhaps Willi/Leia did something really bad/illegal and Willi jumped ship when he thought Katie would rat them out.

Removing incest is NOT the end of the game. It's just the end of enjoyment for those who play the game predominantly for that kink.

You start out trying to say no, and end up saying yes.

 

[LHDLLB]

It's a debate that has been extensively explored here in recent times. He has his reasons if he does it (we speculate it's to protect SG) and let's be honest, WIAB suffered in development and never managed to explode in economic support, the ban of Patreon accelerated that feeling and maybe the changes will serve to attract attention outside the hyper-specific niche where WIAB fit.

This is something that I had not thought yet, incest plus NTR plus slow burn, WiaB is a very niche game. If it at least turns it more main stream is something of a positive.

 

[John972]

But if the two games are more than two decades apart, they can't have a similar phone.

If SG is modern, then William here should have one of those old models that barely had color and received Miru's ass pictures in 144p quality or worse .

Yeah, Ocean needs to ensure that Miru's modelling is shot on 120 rollfilm and her porno scenes are captured on VHS. Then, the whole gang gets to watch the pornos streaming over the internet at dialup speeds via lo-res .rm or .asf video files. This assumes a 20-year difference as from 2019.

 

[yossa999]

Gawd, I just can't hold myself. It's old good "This game is R-U-I-N-E-D" again.
I wonder where are all those dudes who wrote the same thing when Ocean announced the remake, how many years back?

Yeah, this will be yet another end of this game. It dies, slowly, painfully, sometimes wheezing out another render of Katie. And it will be dying, year after year, suffocating without incest. By the way, furries when?

 

[Krytax123]

'not really. There's more to the story and the game overall than simply incest. It comes down to how Ocean chooses to alter the relationships while providing a credible explanation to maintain the tension (and apparent taboo) of the Willi/Leia relationship and Willi's reason for leaving. There's a whole range of possible scenarios outside of incest that could be used. For example, perhaps Willi/Leia did something really bad/illegal and Willi jumped ship when he thought Katie would rat them out.

Removing incest is NOT the end of the game. It's just the end of enjoyment for those who play the game predominantly for that kink.

Removing incest is 100% not the end of the game but removing it only partially and leaving behind a story which isnt really working could be.

I mean you state there could be countless reasons (in the story we have so far, there is existing stuff already, were not at 0% content) but your only example is kind of really shit?

So willy and leia did shit together and he jumped ship to ... let her down to not get accused? lol

Can you see how that sucks? I mean its fine but willy in this case is hyper unlikeable and Leia should never ever contact him again

The incest in this case worked because willy apparently felt that its not right and leaving was a way to "shield" leia of it too, at least in his mind i guess

And thats kind of the problem were at, its not THIS easy to make the story we got at this point without family relations without bending the logic over backwards.

My favored solution would still that helen and dylan are the real parents (not lewdable), Katie could be a neighboor and dunno about Leia if there is supposed to be no incest.

Im just unable to comprehend how people like you can think, well we just turn the family into non-family without changing anything and now there is no incest anymore lol

No like that theres still (badly hidden) incest and a story which is barely logical

 

[John972]

You start out trying to say no, and end up saying yes.

As my Nan would say, you have a filthy mind! The "illegal" Willi/Leia thing doesn't have to involve anything sexual...

 

[sorco2003]

This is something that I had not thought yet, incest plus NTR plus slow burn, WiaB is a very niche game. If it at least turns it more main stream is something of a positive.

I shared that thought with Ocean some time ago, but he had (has?) a lot of faith in the Steam release. If WIAB changes too much, maybe part of it is my fault.

 

[sorco2003]

Yeah, Ocean needs to ensure that Miru's modelling is shot on 120 rollfilm and her porno scenes are captured on VHS. Then, the whole gang gets to watch the pornos streaming over the internet at dialup speeds via lo-res .rm or .asf video files. This assumes a 20-year difference as from 2019.

I know the post is sarcastic, but, in 1999 there were already digital recorders and DVDs---.
And I understand that you are trying to defend the pact of disbelief, which I applaud. But we know that those things are holes that we must let go for the sake of the total.

 

[John972]

Removing incest is 100% not the end of the game but removing it only partially and leaving behind a story which isnt really working could be.

I mean you state there could be countless reasons (in the story we have so far, there is existing stuff already, were not at 0% content) but your only example is kind of really shit?

So willy and leia did shit together and he jumped ship to ... let her down to not get accused? lol

Can you see how that sucks? I mean its fine but willy in this case is hyper unlikely and Leia should never ever contact him again

The incest in this case worked because willy apparently felt that its not right and leaving was a way to "shield" leia of it too, at least in his mind i guess

And thats kind of the problem were at, its not THIS easy to make the story we got at this point without family relations without bending the logic over backwards.

My favored solution would still that helen and dylan are the real parents (not lewdable), Katie could be a neighboor and dunno about Leia if there is supposed to be no incest.

Im just unable to comprehend how people like you can think, well we just turn the family into non-family without changing anything and now there is no incest anymore lol

No like that theres still (badly hidden) incest and a story which is barely logical

I tend to disagree. Your argument is akin to saying the tension over Summer's disappearance in SG doesn't work unless she and Nika were having an incestuous relationship. Of course, we know that's not the case because that's the way the story developed from the start.

With WIAB, the same is possible. Whether or not Ocean can pull it off convincingly is another matter.

While I like the solution you suggested, I can see potential trouble in the future because the story still relies on a previous incestuous relationship between Willi/Leia, even if Leia becomes unlewdable in WIAB. I mean "trouble" in terms of Ocean risking loosing revenue streams. EDIT: I just recalled a scene where Katie being a "neighbor" doesn't work either - Willi's flashback to the nighttime sparing under Dylan's supervision. Katie appears with Helen in that scene...

People say, oh, go to Subscribestar or rely on Steam because they don't care about such material. What a load of bumpkin! The last few years have shown that third-party providers can pull services at any time without warning if and when they move the goalposts.

 

[Maviarab]

For anyone scrolling through, NO Mom / Son incest scenes or real content yet, really good high quality renders and decent story though, has a lot of potential

Yeah thanks for that highly educational and pointless post.

 

[John972]

I know the post is sarcastic, but, in 1999 there were already digital recorders and DVDs---.
And I understand that you are trying to defend the pact of disbelief, which I applaud. But we know that those things are holes that we must let go for the sake of the total.

I was being a little silly and simply referencing the technology at the turn of the millennium (honestly, I should know... I was working in and teaching photography back then during the transition from analogue to digital - professional digital still photography didn't become really common until 2002-2005. Before that, film was used and the results scanned to create a digital image). Affordable digital camcorders were obviously available though, so no need for VHS. Anyone using the internet back them knows how rudimentary video streaming over the internet was.

 

[Krytax123]

I tend to disagree. Your argument is akin to saying the tension over Summer's disappearance in SG doesn't work unless she and Nika were having an incestuous relationship. Of course, we know that's not the case because that's the way the story developed from the start.

With WIAB, the same is possible. Whether or not Ocean can pull it off convincingly is another matter.

Not Really? The wiab story could work too with willy and leia being former lovers (and not twins!) and whatever happened. But they are still twins

We know it cant be certain over-the-top things as we saw leia's and katies reactions already.

And you make the point, the story developed very differently from the start here (aka willy going back to his family).

While I like the solution you suggested, I can see potential trouble in the future because the story still relies on a previous incestuous relationship between Willi/Leia, even if Leia becomes unlewdable in WIAB. I mean "trouble" in terms of Ocean risking loosing revenue streams. EDIT: I just recalled a scene where Katie being a "neighbor" doesn't work either - Willi's flashback to the nighttime sparing under Dylan's supervision. Katie appears with Helen in that scene...

People say, oh, go to Subscribestar or rely on Steam because they don't care about such material. What a load of bumpkin! The last few years have shown that third-party providers can pull services at any time without warning if and when they move the goalposts.

Yeah thats the thing, it doesnt work anymore to display them as anything else than a family because they are obviously displayed as a family (blood related or not).

Just saying "they are not a family anymore" to let willy still fuck helen but not call it incest is way more damaging for the story than anything else imo

But whatever, i posted enough about how this maybe will annoy me, maybe ocean is cooking and has the superior solution!

 

[RNasc4444]

'not really. There's more to the story and the game overall than simply incest. It comes down to how Ocean chooses to alter the relationships while providing a credible explanation to maintain the tension (and apparent taboo) of the Willi/Leia relationship and Willi's reason for leaving. There's a whole range of possible scenarios outside of incest that could be used. For example, perhaps Willi/Leia did something really bad/illegal and Willi jumped ship when he thought Katie would rat them out.

Removing incest is NOT the end of the game. It's just the end of enjoyment for those who play the game predominantly for that kink.

Yossa? Is that you?

I could not possibly disagree more with your view on this. You say there is more to the story than...lets use the words "family relationships" instead of "incest" here. There isn't. Not yet at least. All we have right now is a premise. And that premise is the MC returning to a place he didn't want to go back to, to see people he didn't want to see again because his not-mother got into an accident and refuses to speak now.

No she wasn't hurt. She isn't dying. She doesn't need blood or a vital organ. She just "lost her voice". How does it make any fucking sense whatsoever for William to put himself through something he REALLY doesn't want to just to see an unrelated lady that isn't speaking anymore!?!?!?

So I ask what else is there besides "family relationship drama"? Leia's pimping and drug dealing? We have no proof it's connected to the planet sized woman's accident. No connection whatsoever to the Krayt as of this moment. So no. I have to pushback on that. There is nothing more to this game at this moment than literal family drama. And THAT gets destroyed the moment they are not family anymore.

So no, fuck your fetish kink reasoning. I would never touch Leia, Dylan or Gigantor. As for Katie i'd bang her no matter what. Related, unrelated who gives a fuck. She's hot. As long as she is a biological woman, I'm in!

EDIT: Thank God for Krytax123 for the much needed injection of common sense in this thread.

 

[LHDLLB]

Yeah, Ocean needs to ensure that Miru's modelling is shot on 120 rollfilm and her porno scenes are captured on VHS. Then, the whole gang gets to watch the pornos streaming over the internet at dialup speeds via lo-res .rm or .asf video files. This assumes a 20-year difference as from 2019.

Ocean has a get out jail free card. Is a fictitious world, is a inconcistence easly dealt with.

I shared that thought with Ocean some time ago, but he had (has?) a lot of faith in the Steam release. If WIAB changes too much, maybe part of it is my fault.

I say it as a good thing, I don't get the feeling that he is concern with our opinion, don't beat yourself with it. I don't know if the Steam is this saving grace, the problem I think is the NTR, for those who like it, it has too little, for those who don't the possibility is enough to not touch it.

Is a really great game and story. But is a story hard to sell.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Removing incest is 100% not the end of the game but removing it only partially and leaving behind a story which isnt really working could be.

I mean you state there could be countless reasons (in the story we have so far, there is existing stuff already, were not at 0% content) but your only example is kind of really shit?

So willy and leia did shit together and he jumped ship to ... let her down to not get accused? lol

Can you see how that sucks? I mean its fine but willy in this case is hyper unlikeable and Leia should never ever contact him again

The incest in this case worked because willy apparently felt that its not right and leaving was a way to "shield" leia of it too, at least in his mind i guess

And thats kind of the problem were at, its not THIS easy to make the story we got at this point without family relations without bending the logic over backwards.

My favored solution would still that helen and dylan are the real parents (not lewdable), Katie could be a neighboor and dunno about Leia if there is supposed to be no incest.

Im just unable to comprehend how people like you can think, well we just turn the family into non-family without changing anything and now there is no incest anymore lol

No like that theres still (badly hidden) incest and a story which is barely logical

Yossa? Is that you?

I could not possibly disagree more with your view on this. You say there is more to the story than...let use the words "family relationships" instead of "incest" here. There isn't. Not yet at least. All we have right now is a premise. And that premise is the MC returning to a place he didn't want to go back to, to see people he didn't want to see again because his not-mother got into an accident and refuses to speak now.

No she wasn't hurt. She isn't dying. She doesn't need blood or a vital organ. She just "lost her voice". How does it make any fucking sense whatsoever for William to put himself through something he REALLY doesn't want to just to see an unrelated lady that isn't speaking anymore!?!?!?

So I ask what else is there besides "family relationship drama"? Leia's pimping and drug dealing? We have no proof it's connected to the planet sized woman's accident. No connection whatsoever to the Krayt as of this moment. So no. I have to pushback on that. There is nothing more to this game at this moment than literal family drama. And THAT gets destroyed the moment they are not family anymore.

So no, fuck your fetish kink reasoning. I would never touch Leia, Dylan or Gigantor. As for Katie i'd bang her no matter what. Related, unrelated who gives a fuck. She's hot. As long as she is a biological woman, I'm in!

EDIT: Thank God for Krytax123 for the much needed injection of common sense in this thread.

We keep going around this. "The game doesn't make sense without incest" but Helen losing her voice or the spider does? Free pass for losing the voice. Original version, Willi being sent to regular prison before trial? Where's the presumption of innocence? And of course Miru never made sense as a LI until the remake. There was no love, only pain.

But sure everything makes sense when you add incest. Willi will totally run home for Helen having lost her voice then.

Keep in mind that the redacted devlog spoke about how Ocean continues to thell the story he wants to tell without it being a problem. Some of his problems were not just patreon, but the fact that some relationships felt fake to him. If he isn't persuaded and puts it out, it'll be worse than if he doesn't alter things.

Right now we're in limbo/free fall waiting for Ch4, and we'll see if Ocean pulls off a great segue into the new plot ...or not. I'm more interested in Donna's plot line as far as the story goes, and those spider ninjas who throw eightlegged monstrousities rather than 4 sides stars.

I mean, how hard would it be for Helen to have been hospitalised, William takes a week to organise enough of his shit to goand arrives the day Helen is released from hospital and is back home, missing her voice? That would be incredibly easy, a could more renders and a few dialogue changes and it becomes believeable.

I'm going to see where it goes - the original devlog wasn't anywhere near as grim as everyone has built it up in their mind. It simply mentioned who IS related. But, now we play the waiting game to find out why it was redacted, and we fear the most boring outcome.

The important realisation to me is that trying to keep it as it was prerework, also had it's own shit sandwiches. Less shit sandwiches, and Dana's our landlady, confirmed.

 

[sorco2003]

We keep going around this. "The game doesn't make sense without incest" but Helen losing her voice or the spider does? Free pass for losing the voice. Original version, Willi being sent to regular prison before trial? Where's the presumption of innocence? And of course Miru never made sense as a LI until the remake. There was no love, only pain.

But sure everything makes sense when you add incest. Willi will totally run home for Helen having lost her voice then.

Keep in mind that the redacted devlog spoke about how Ocean continues to thell the story he wants to tell without it being a problem. Some of his problems were not just patreon, but the fact that some relationships felt fake to him. If he isn't persuaded and puts it out, it'll be worse than if he doesn't alter things.

Right now we're in limbo/free fall waiting for Ch4, and we'll see if Ocean pulls off a great segue into the new plot ...or not. I'm more interested in Donna's plot line as far as the story goes, and those spider ninjas who throw eightlegged monstrousities rather than 4 sides stars.

I mean, how hard would it be for Helen to have been hospitalised, William takes a week to organise enough of his shit to goand arrives the day Helen is released from hospital and is back home, missing her voice? That would be incredibly easy, a could more renders and a few dialogue changes and it becomes believeable.

I'm going to see where it goes - the original devlog wasn't anywhere near as grim as everyone has built it up in their mind. It simply mentioned who IS related. But, now we play the waiting game to find out why it was redacted, and we fear the most boring outcome.

The important realisation to me is that trying to keep it as it was prerework, also had it's own shit sandwiches. Less shit sandwiches, and Dana's our landlady, confirmed.

I understand the desire to debate and say everyone else is wrong , but, Krytax is not talking about incest, he is talking about the new WIAB (yes this new one, not the old one, he never talked about the old one) starting out as a family drama.
He even says in his many interventions that he thinks it works best keeping Dylan and Helen as parents, without Helen being LI or lewdable, removing Leia from the LI's and making Katie a true "childhood friend".
At this point we are truly all debating different things without wanting to give a toss.
And that's nice, because it's entertaining.


you missed the coffee Bob

 

[BobTheDuck]

I understand the desire to debate and say everyone else is wrong , but, Krytax is not talking about incest, he is talking about the new WIAB (yes this new one, not the old one, he never talked about the old one) starting out as a family drama.
He even says in his many interventions that he thinks it works best keeping Dylan and Helen as parents, without Helen being LI or lewdable, removing Leia from the LI's and making Katie a true "childhood friend".
At this point we are truly all debating different things without wanting to give a toss.
And that's nice, because it's entertaining.


you missed the coffee Bob

View attachment 4470414

It's too hot here, I've only been doing cold brew. I'm also pointing out that the story with incest still doesn't make huge sense, but no one ever considers Willi should just send Helen to a speech therapist and stay in his city.

The basic premise is Leia manipulates him to come back to Wollust, keeps info from him makes it sound dramatic, and he gets there to find Helen overdosed on helium or something? Her voice is so high only dogs can hear it?

Family or not family, it doesn't make sense, but we all suspended our disbelief until the promised tags got threatened. So I don't think I've misunderstood. It's actually a game about how Willi turned to a life of crime because he didn't get his Monster Basher Brutal 3000, so he had no way to express himself to an uncaring world. He creampied Mon as a way to get back at Leia not getting him the '3000.

As plausible as anything else, currently. So yeah, let's get Ocean more coffee? It is a stimulant after all, maybe Ch4 will appear sooner and we'll have new things to not give a toss about

 

[dan_roger69]

Yes, but between the two, do you choose the one that gives you less money?

Between the two I would choose which will give me long term income and stability rather than short term. Ocean has said a few times he doesn't care about the money. There are several Devs who were forced to move to Subscribstar cos Patreon shutdown their account and have regained subs/income they lost in a few months.