VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[Maccabbee]

For it to make any sense, you first have to accept facts that you wouldn't otherwise accept. Helen is free to do as she pleases because, as you rightly say, she is the one who runs the business and is de facto the head of the “family”... she can do as she pleases, and having lovers is all too common; you have to see it as medieval nobility.
And continuing with the pacts of disbelief, accepting that, at least until now, Katie and Leia are tokens, and that their value lay in being bargaining chips, but even more so, accepting that William was the impediment, since he could not provide anything beneficial, without a royal family and marked by misfortune.

Katie is intentionally distancing herself from the crime drama, and is going into the fashion world. That's why she's a non-entity. If she had been inclined to the crime side of life she may have been a power in the family already, but then William would not be.

Leia is pushing for more, but she's unstable, and had to be committed and hospitalized. Organized crime does not look trustingly with those who have that in their past. Al Capone was a made man before Syphilis started eating his brain, and by the time he was sent to Chicago from Brooklyn, he was already going crazy. He was a member of one of the most violent families back in NY then, and they couldn't handle him.

William being a de facto heir may well be because of all this, and why Helen is willing to kill a judge (risking war with the other families) to keep him. Not all of it needs to be kinky reasons.

 

[demonking69:(]

No, but there are a lot other games with incest out of the box and without a mob thing.

haha u being funny ??
i just asked if there is a patch

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I mean, I acceppet them. It just goes against the others informations the story provides me. William can not suck Katke tittes but can grope Helen honkers.

Look at it this way Helen is the one who has to enforce the law so you are harder to punish if you break the law with her

I like this take. Helens not on speaking terms with some, Dylan the others.

Helen not on speaking terms with anyone

 

[UncleFappy]

Why not Emilio? It can be any one of them. Also, remember that Emilio and Riri forced Leia's hand - she wasn't going to call Willi about Helen at all. That was just her excuse. Emilio and Riri got her to get Willi back. They have their reasons, but who ARE they to have their own reasons? The other thing about the bibi's - keep an eye out for Mila's mom. She's bound to be one, or she's at Asaveras. If she's been on screen, my money is on Lena.

I'm taking their "Leia was getting too unstable" reason at face value for now.

But Emilio being the mole would be interesting. The only counterpoint I have to that is that if he was the mole, he would have informed Agent Retard about Miru. William's girlfriend suddenly starts shadowing him and jumping headfirst into the crime game? Definitely would have reported her existence to the Feds. Agent Retard dismissing Miru as a nobody who doesn't matter goes against the idea of Emilio being the mole, imo.

But hey, Emilio could have his own agenda, or he's working for someone else. Doesn't have to be the Feds. Who knows. I personally think he's actually loyal to Leia and was just worried about her, so he and Riri pushed for William's return.

EDIT: There is also how Agent Sexy finds the timing of William's return suspicious, because of the confluence of events taking place. Emilio pushed for William's return, and if he was the mole, he was doing that under Fed orders or on his own and would have reported his reasonings to the Feds. Their ignorance regarding why William returned in another point towards Emilio not being the Fed mole.

 

[Maccabbee]

Look at it this way Helen is the one who has to enforce the law so you are harder to punish if you break the law with her


Helen not on speaking terms with anyone

In my recent playthrough it stated that he groped Helen as a tactic to provoke a reaction, not out of lust. If she realized that, then this was a counter-tactic, perhaps?

And stop making me run out of reactions, damn it!

 

[Maviarab]

Ok, a few things here:

I bet that Helen and Dylan were the "few good people

We are explicitly told by Scarlet that there was a 'no kids' rule in force. That was given by the higher ups....I doubt Dylan nor Helen had much to do with it until the hit happened and then 2 kids from rival families needing 'taking in and watching over'.

Why not Emilio? It can be any one of them. Also, remember that Emilio and Riri forced Leia's hand - she wasn't going to call Willi about Helen at all. That was just her excuse. Emilio and Riri got her to get Willi back. They have their reasons,

And what are those reasons I wonder....

we probably should assume that the Grimaldis and Pedersolis were trying to make moves on the bigger families to increase their influence, take out rivals. In that sense, Willi's being treated strictly

I'll go with this line of thought for sure.

And something can be an asset because it can be used as leverage

For what? He's a nobody....something Leia takes great pains to remind him. No family, nothing. As I stated in my deliberately long and silly post, asset for what exactly...and they gonna force him upon? No one wants him.

I'm taking their "Leia was getting too unstable" reason at face value for now.

And exactly what did they think bringing Gigachad back would do exactly except make her more unstable? Them forcing her literally makes zero sense (if you forget the dumbness of the plot in how they may have been thinking). Remember Emilio saying thanks Willi when he caused chaos in the club the first time? I'll say again, what exactly was he thinking would happen? Chad would come back and Leia would be all wet panties and Willi take me here right now and fuck the sense back into her? Really? lol.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

In my recent playthrough it stated that he groped Helen as a tactic to provoke a reaction, not out of lust.

I'm curious if this is the version he intends to present to Miru XD

 

[BobTheDuck]

For what? He's a nobody....something Leia takes great pains to remind him. No family, nothing. As I stated in my deliberately long and silly post, asset for what exactly...and they gonna force him upon? No one wants him.

A threat can be leveraged. They could be using Willi or Leia as a reminder of how far a family can fall, and lose all relevanc in a night, and become another family's lapdog.

Edit: I'm not saying the Zane's are doing that, but the families that allowed Willi and Leia to survive, who then handed them to the Zanes maybe?

 

[UncleFappy]

And exactly what did they think bringing Gigachad back would do exactly except make her more unstable? Them forcing her literally makes zero sense (if you forget the dumbness of the plot in how they may have been thinking). Remember Emilio saying thanks Willi when he caused chaos in the club the first time? I'll say again, what exactly was he thinking would happen?

Mmm. Well, no one seems to have expected William being a wildcard retard. I imagine no one thought William was gonna start nosing around in everyone's business and start knocking dominoes wherever he goes.

But also, it was probably a move of desperation. Nothing in Wollust was gonna get Leia to chill out, so an outside factor needed to be introduced. Even with massive gulf between them now, calling on the one person Leia had ever trusted makes sense to me.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I'm not saying the Zane's are doing that

If it were the Zanes doing it it would make more sense, as the Zanes would be the only ones who see them as Zanes and want to use them (marry them) as such.

Mmm. Well, no one seems to have expected William being a wildcard retard. I imagine no one thought William was gonna start nosing around in everyone's business and start knocking dominoes wherever he goes.

Not expecting someone whose return home could cause him no small amount of trouble, not to search under every stone to figure out what the situation is, seems very foolish to me.

 

[LHDLLB]

I like this take. Helens not on speaking terms with some, Dylan the others. Something is splitting the Zanes, and it's to do with Dylan and Helen most likely. I think it's two things - as you say, Helen isn't actually the Zane blood. The other thing that would split the family ...is taking in Willi and Leia. Remember where Scarlet said "if it wasn't for a few good people that night, you'd have been drowned ina bath tub"? I bet that Helen and Dylan were the "few good people".





Why not Emilio? It can be any one of them. Also, remember that Emilio and Riri forced Leia's hand - she wasn't going to call Willi about Helen at all. That was just her excuse. Emilio and Riri got her to get Willi back. They have their reasons, but who ARE they to have their own reasons? The other thing about the bibi's - keep an eye out for Mila's mom. She's bound to be one, or she's at Asaveras. If she's been on screen, my money is on Lena.



I'm not going to have a comprehensive view of how it works, but think the man in the iron mask. Why does anyone lock a figure away to be forgotten? William's family is to be forgotten. That was the outcome of that past feud, but William survived. Helen probably had to argue hard considering the Guiseppes were involved in the feud (details of who Willi's family enemies are, are hazy). The Zanes probably had strict conditions put on them in order to save him from the bath tub/ditch.

I don't know what Ocean's thinking for Willi's conditions, I'm just guessing. He is on probabtion, if he goes beyond the behaviour they set, he gets judged, and likely exiled, or executed. The powerful families don't want rivals, and we probably should assume that the Grimaldis and Pedersolis were trying to make moves on the bigger families to increase their influence, take out rivals. In that sense, Willi's being treated strictly. The behaviour Ocean's shown isn't consistent though, or the explanation. He really needs to clear it up.

And something can be an asset because it can be used as leverage, not because it's valuable in itself.

I don't think the reason for the split is William, as he seems to have know and interacting with them, the slipt hapen after he leaves. Maybe because he leaves.

Like the Idea it could be Lena.

That all is fine. The problem the story dosen't make any of this clear. Not yet at least. Not the reason as to why he was let live or the reason that he can't fuck who he wants to fuck. This has to be clear and work is what I am saying, and political marriage with a dead family dosen't do much sense.

Precisely what I said, Helen can, Katie can't.

But still he is seem as valuable enough asset to me spared as a child
[/QUOTE]
enough is the key word here.
[/QUOTE]

I get you. Helen can alright, she seems to have had a open relationship with Dylan. The problem is that William can't. Katie also seems to be allowed to do what she pleases, but William can't.

 

[jadepaladin]

All Ocean has to do is have Geraldo explain things when we go meet the judges. Of course, that won't happen because that's not how it works in mafia stories. Why is he so important that he was taken in, unable to have relationships with people he's not really related to, and yet told so frequently that he's not important and has no power? It's either inconsistent or some type of psych warfare meant to keep Will down.

 

[UncleFappy]

Not expecting someone whose return home could cause him no small amount of trouble, not to search under every stone to figure out what the situation is, seems very foolish to me.

True. And yet, everyone seems to be expecting William to just sit still and do as they say while they don't tell him anything. And they're surprised by him going around doing shit on his own.

I think thats just going to be an Oceanism we have to ignore.

In any case. When it comes to Emilio being a Fed mole, I don't think so. Agent Retard not knowing about Miru. Agent Sexy not knowing why William is back. Those two points are weird if Emilio is their mole. Which leaves either Emilio's intentions being face value, or its a play from another family/organization/player of which Emilio is an agent.

I gotta say, if Emilio is an agent, his turn to loyalty should be an interesting bit of story. Him being around in Wollust 20 years later is probably a sign that if he was a traitor he ended up choosing Leia's side in the end.

 

[LHDLLB]

A threat can be leveraged. They could be using Willi or Leia as a reminder of how far a family can fall, and lose all relevanc in a night, and become another family's lapdog.

Edit: I'm not saying the Zane's are doing that, but the families that allowed Willi and Leia to survive, who then handed them to the Zanes maybe?

I think we need to understand the power structure of this syndicate and where the Zanes are. The importance of Leia and Wiiam family., what was the plan and how William fucked it up. Too much for this update but all this should be clear by the end of the season.

The zanes are forcerd to take the actions they did or not ? Half of this update was making sure that there was no incest but put very shake things in its place.

I would argue that if Leia and William are to be a reminder they should not have power, and yet Leia seems more powerful than the Zanes and William was allowed to do as he pleases for years.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I think we need to understand the power structure of this syndicate and where the Zanes are. The importance of Leia and Wiiam family., what was the plan and how William fucked it up. Too much for this update but all this should be clear by the end of the season.

The zanes are forcerd to take the actions they did or not ? Half of this update was making sure that there was no incest but put very shake things in its place.

I would argue that if Leia and William are to be a reminder they should not have power, and yet Leia seems more powerful than the Zanes and William was allowed to do as he pleases for years.

Out of reacts, but your last two posts have great points

 

[Dr.TSoni]

You know what, I hate you guys, you got me interested in new possible theories. And I wanted to stay angry and sulky.
That said, I'm afraid we'll need another chapter to figure out which pieces of the puzzle to save from chapters 1-3 and which ones to forget exist.

All Ocean has to do is have Geraldo explain things when we go meet the judges.

Who the fuck is Geraldo now?

 

[jadepaladin]

You know what, I hate you guys, you got me interested in new possible theories. And I wanted to stay angry and sulky.
That said, I'm afraid we'll need another chapter to figure out which pieces of the puzzle to save from chapters 1-3 and which ones to forget exist.


Who the fuck is Geraldo now?

Giuseppe or whatever his name is. I'm terrible with Italian names. The one that Will has to meet and Helen "talked" about killing in the groping scene.

 

[Maccabbee]

Giuseppe or whatever his name is. I'm terrible with Italian names. The one that Will has to meet and Helen "talked" about killing in the groping scene.

Funny how his son has a reason to hate William and Leia... That's not coming back up soon, right?

 

[jadepaladin]

Funny how his son has a reason to hate William and Leia... That's not coming back up soon, right?

It's Ocean, it'll either be next chapter, two chapters from now, or an insert into ch 1 via a rework. He plays the shell game to determine which.

I do like that the son will be a factor, I don't want an overloaded cast but given the mafia/crime family premise, I expected more goons, hired hands, made men, and such.

 

[RNasc4444]

unable to have relationships with people he's not really related to

Because Ocean thinks he's clever and the entire playerbase is braindead. That's an obvious attempt at maintaining the illusion of ic without actually risking having ic.

"Boooo don't fuck Katie bro...iz taboooooooo...iz forbidden because we say so...doesn't matter that she's in a relationship with Zooooooey....no dik....boooo...." *in faint eye-talian noises*

These rules are beyond silly. If they really were being groomed for a possible strategic suitor they would be followed up close. They would abide by certain standards. Meanwhile they don't give a flying fuck about William, they let Leia do whatever the fuck she damn well pleases for some reason and they don't so much as bat an eye on Katie's relationship with Zoey.