VN Ren'Py Where the Heart Is [S1 Rev1] [CheekyGimp]

[seamanq]

I am going to regret this, but for those that know me, you will know I cannot help myself when I'm bored/tired. Each of his posts gradually pushed me towards not being able to help myself.....The sound of this guy running down from his ivory tower and galloping in on his high horse has woken my petty demon.

No writer? Sorry to break it to you, but I AM a writer. Guess what? I wrote this game, so I'm a writer!
Am I a professional writer? No. Do I claim to be a great or even good writer? No. I might even be, in some people's opinion a terrible writer and I'm OK with that. But good or bad, the fact is you are wrong and I am a writer! So, for someone who seems to be so particular about accuracy, it's a bit awkward that you start off with an error.

Oxford English definition of writer: "A person who has written something or who writes in a particular way."
P.S. I have written something. And I do write in a particular way. The fact that you think my "writing" is particularly bad sort of proves the point that I have written stuff! ***Cringe***

Can you give me an example of a misused colloquialism? I'm not saying I don't have any - I've just never heard of one, so I'm curious what you would consider as an example of where a colloquialism has been misused.

"Foible" is really only applicable when describing a person's character or behaviour. So you could accurately say I have some foibles, but it's incorrect to use the term in the context you used it in. A piece of writing cannot have " grammatical foibles". The writer has to have the foibles, not the writing. And "foible", by it's very definition implies a minor or small flaw, so it should never really be preceded by a diminutive adverb, such as "minor". Don't worry about it. I misused the word plenty of times too, until my 1st year (secondary school) teacher corrected me.

These are only questions, not statements, because I genuinely don't know for sure (But I bet you'll know). Should it be:

{Actually, no. Without a writer....} instead of {Actually no, without a writer...}
{"Where the Heart is" is filled with...} instead of {Where the Heart is, is filled with...}

and lastly, regarding {Which is the point I was quite obviously making.} - Can I suggest that if you need to re-iterate your point or give more detail / context, then maybe it wasn't that "obvious."

I never claim to be a grammar guru, although when I'm not rushed (which is never the case when it comes to WTHI), I usually do alright. And with approximately 27,000 lines (that's lines, not words) of dialog/ code written, with very little time given to proof-reading, I expect lots of minor errors.
It's difficult. Hell, you couldn't even write 4 lines without an error! Now get off your high horse, you're embarrassing yourself! (And your horse). And remember, it's a porn game, not a Booker prize candidate.

As anyone who reads this forum regularly knows, I am always open to constructive feedback and in most cases I'm pretty receptive to it. I agree that there are typos & grammar errors in every episode and I usually thank people for catching these. I'm responding to your comments in a negative way, because your tone throughout your posts just reeks of pretentiousness and self-righteousness and I've a low tolerance of those attributes in people (and horses!).

And I've sprinkled a few typos and grammatical errors into my response just to give you something to do. (All intentional of course )

Your pal,

Cheeky

All joking aside, I am a professional writer and quite honestly aside from the stray typo, I have never seen anything in your work that is anywhere near as bad as that stuck up whiner is claiming. He lauds Ptolemy, who certainly creates some nice work, but unfortunately Engrish is not his native language, and the bloke he has hired to do proofreading is seriously lacking. I can guarantee you that any release from Ptolemy is going to have many more errors than you because of this fact (this is not something that I haven't told either Ptolemy or his proofreader, whose excuse is he doesn't have enough time).

As someone kindly told me when I did the first release of my game and it was met with a volley of hate and derision (one writer compared one of my actors to Chucky), just let it blow over. When this miscreant and others like him don't get responses and no one puts fuel on their fire, they will crawl back into their hole or find someone else to troll.

Gratuitous Troll Scene:

 

[barrio96]

is chapter 11 and 12 avaible now?

 

[dkatryl]

Cheeky,

An example of what I would consider a misused colloquialism that I can recall was a few updates ago, when in a conversation between Katie and the MC, there was a reference to 'trash talk' as 'thrash talk'.

Now, admittedly, that could have been a simple typo, a sneaky 'h' slipping in there, but it was used more than once in that scene, by both Katie and MC, iirc.

So, given the consistency, one could assume it was intended, in which case, I have never heard it called 'thrash' talk.

Now, that said, by no means am I suggesting you are not a writer, as that would be silly. In fact, one of the things I enjoy the most about this game is the dialog.

So keep up the good work, and looking forward to the next update!

 

[aberdash]

He lauds Ptolemy, who certainly creates some nice work, but unfortunately Engrish is not his native language, and the bloke he has hired to do proofreading is seriously lacking.

Looks like you are conflating 2 different people. I don't particularly care about typos and grammar as long as it doesn't become egregious. I frequently make typos and my grammar is far from perfect so it would be pretty hypocritical. In fact I probably wouldn't even notice minor grammatical errors. Whenever I critique writing it is about dialog feeling natural, plot advancing logically and everything feeling like it fits within the story being told.

 

[Fantabaldu]

is chapter 11 and 12 avaible now?

Check the Changelog in the Op , there you can find already the answer to your question ; Chapter 11 it's already included in the last update, Ch 12 probably it will be released in the next one

 

[CheekyGimp]

Cheeky,

An example of what I would consider a misused colloquialism that I can recall was a few updates ago, when in a conversation between Katie and the MC, there was a reference to 'trash talk' as 'thrash talk'.

Now, admittedly, that could have been a simple typo, a sneaky 'h' slipping in there, but it was used more than once in that scene, by both Katie and MC, iirc.

So, given the consistency, one could assume it was intended, in which case, I have never heard it called 'thrash' talk.

Now, that said, by no means am I suggesting you are not a writer, as that would be silly. In fact, one of the things I enjoy the most about this game is the dialog.

So keep up the good work, and looking forward to the next update!

Yep - I spelt thrash incorrectly. I know the word is trash, but for some reason I kept typing it as thrash. So a typo, rather than misuse. I also almost always type "form" when I mean "from" and incorrectly spell embarrass as embarass. There's about 20 more examples where I know how to spell something, but when I type, for some reason, I make the same error over and over. I literally write "form" instead of "from", when I type about 80% of the time. It's infuriating.
And I hate seeing typos make it into the final release, so please flag any errors you see as you play through the episodes and I'll correct in subsequent versions.

 

[CheekyGimp]

is chapter 11 and 12 avaible now?

Ep12 won't be out for at least another week. So check back here in "At least another week"+ 8 seconds.

 

[aberdash]

Yep - I spelt thrash incorrectly. I know the word is trash, but for some reason I kept typing it as thrash. So a typo, rather than misuse.

I actually found this funny as my grandma would always call trash thrash.

 

[Ignatz]

The dyslexic typing error is pretty common, especially among those not using the "home row" typing method (like myself). I chalk the problem up to thinking faster than the fingers type, so that they occasionally hit keys out of order. That's what proofreading/editing cleans up. Even silly posts like this on a porn forum, I check before hitting "post". From my years as a writer.

Oh, and another you didn't catch in your snarky, but deserved rebuke earlier: "Which" is the point...should actually be "That" is the point... There is much confusion over the proper use of those two words.

I have no comparison over the writing now versus earlier in the game, I've not looked at it this way. But (as you can recall when I sent you a message with the pledge all those episodes ago), it was the writing on the game that hooked me. As long as you're still in partnership on the writing, giving suggestions, if not producing the dialogue directly, that's fine with me.

 

[Bonhomie]

Yep - I spelt thrash incorrectly. I know the word is trash, but for some reason I kept typing it as thrash. So a typo, rather than misuse. I also almost always type "form" when I mean "from" and incorrectly spell embarrass as embarass. There's about 20 more examples where I know how to spell something, but when I type, for some reason, I make the same error over and over. I literally write "form" instead of "from", when I type about 80% of the time. It's infuriating.
And I hate seeing typos make it into the final release, so please flag any errors you see as you play through the episodes and I'll correct in subsequent versions.

Hmmm - how old are you? I do that all the time and put it down to 'senior moments' where one hand types faster than the other.

On the other hand maybe the use of 'thrash' is Freudian and you really want to put more spanking in to the game.

 

[CheekyGimp]

The dyslexic typing error is pretty common, especially among those not using the "home row" typing method (like myself). I chalk the problem up to thinking faster than the fingers type, so that they occasionally hit keys out of order. That's what proofreading/editing cleans up. Even silly posts like this on a porn forum, I check before hitting "post". From my years as a writer.

Oh, and another you didn't catch in your snarky, but deserved rebuke earlier: "Which" is the point...should actually be "That" is the point... There is much confusion over the proper use of those two words.

I have no comparison over the writing now versus earlier in the game, I've not looked at it this way. But (as you can recall when I sent you a message with the pledge all those episodes ago), it was the writing on the game that hooked me. As long as you're still in partnership on the writing, giving suggestions, if not producing the dialogue directly, that's fine with me.

Thanks Ignatz. I would never argue grammar / spelling with you. And your tips back in the day were always much appreciated. I will still be doing at least 50% of the actual dialog writing as I'm already doing less and less of the art, so if I give up too much writing, I'd feel too detached form the game. But it is such a releif to have Phalzyr on board to take the pressure off (his work rate is phenomenal) and Aeilion is slowly. but surely making me redundant when it comes to the artwork. He is a machine.
Good lesson - On "which" versus "that" - That is genuinely a new learning and I'l try to take on board (but no promises)

 

[CheekyGimp]

Hmmm - how old are you? I do that all the time and put it down to 'senior moments' where one hand types faster than the other.

On the other hand maybe the use of 'thrash' is Freudian and you really want to put more spanking in to the game.

I was actually thinking the same thing about the use of thrash!
And I'm in my early 30s, so hopefully not hitting senior moment time, yet!

 

[Bonhomie]

Oh that's a relief …. … … … or should that be relief

Yes I did spot your deliberate error

 

[Phalzyr]

Jeez I must of forgotten to check this forum all yesterday lol...

I also tend to type faster than my brain's commands to my fingers. I've gotten used to proofreading my own writing over and over to try to catch such mistakes. Though, I don't typically proofread forum posts...

An example of what I would consider a misused colloquialism that I can recall was a few updates ago, when in a conversation between Katie and the MC, there was a reference to 'trash talk' as 'thrash talk'.

I actually saw this error and mentioned it to him recently. I have a habit of proofreading stuff more than once, so hopefully I'll catch anything like this going forward but there is one thing I have learned from past writing even "professional" editors won't catch everything. Also there is timing as we want to release this not hold it back to proofread it to perfection... So if you do see a glaring mistake please let us know constructively.

 

[kdjx770]

You're grammatically foible-free in a non-negative intended pejorative fashion. Shit, I'm starting to sound like him. What I mean to say is: Yes, you're right!

I'm not sure what "standards" your writing is being compared to - but I want to express my appreciation for a fantastic game AND writing. I have only/literally laughed out loud while playing one game - Yours! Fantastic sense of humor and gameplay. Well done.

 

[Ignatz]

...but it all came before Phalzyr came on board, so no pressure...

 

[MrDL]

For the record I haven't had any issues with the writing, story or quality of either it with this game, even with the typos and such it's still leagues above the mess many games are. Typos that can't be caught by spellcheck are the wurst.

I'm still looking forward to eventual discovery of the MC messing around with all the women in the house as well as the business stuff which I imagine Lily eventually gets involved with as well, could lead to some... interesting things. I finally gave in to Zarah in the last update due to her updated look though I might still go back and change that.

 

[Synnerai]

Heh, if you don't like something in the dialogue, just modify it. I do it sometimes in games if a scene is not kinky enough for me or I just don't like some part of dialogue or backstory Or I want to replay the game with something new. Like I made the last Katie scene in the latest episode a bit longer and spiced it with some dirty talk, because it felt a bit short to me. Or when I sometimes modify the incest part out of some game, or change "landlady" and "roommate" to something else, and so on. Just dl ren'py and Atom and watch some tutprial on youtube. And typos and errors can be immersion breaking sometimes, but not too much if they aren't in every second sentence. In WTHI there are just a few overall. I made plenty of them when typing this on a smart phone.

 

[IndigoHawk]

I disagree that the writing is getting worse or that it was bad to start.

However, the grammar in WTHI is a bit unusual. Exclamations are abundant! Almost everything is exciting! But sometimes that's not enough ... An ellipsis brings home the point with a bang! Also ... Interjections!

This definitely impacts the feel of the writing. I think sometimes characters lose their voice a bit and speak too similarly to one another. The grammar probably contributes to this.

But it's not bad. It just has its own flavor. It's not what I would expect from a book, but it doesn't detract from the game. In fact, it suits the game's vibe. The style seems comfortable for the writer, too. I wouldn't want more professional writing at the expensive of productivity. And, uh, if a professional writer is simply someone who gets paid for writing, then by definition CG is a professional. Heh.

Overall the writing is great for a porn game. I can tell there is effort to maintain characterization, which includes the dialogue. The conversations move things along and are often funny. Episodic games like this don't have the benefit of being carefully edited and crafted together into a book, yet the writing in WTHI maintains a consistently high level of quality.

 

[firefly66]

First of all, I have to say that I absolutely love this game. The characters, story, and art are all wonderful. I tend to like to play games like this by focusing on one main love interest, then playing again to look at another. It's just a personal preference. Playthroughs with "I got serious with the mother, the daughter, the other daughter, the daughter's best friend, the sexy neighbor, and the robot maid" take away from the immersion in the reality of the story for me.

I've noticed in this game that, depending upon the woman, it can be hard to get a high friendship without going for romance/lust as well, plus there are decision points that you can't explore without having a high enough relationship. This seems especially true with Monica.

Can anyone suggest a way to get past that (other than cheating)?