VN Ren'Py Where the Heart Is [S1 Rev1] [CheekyGimp]

[ename144]

After this episode, I don't particularly trust Bella anymore. It really felt like she was trying to turn the MC against Elaine and she was playing up the whole lovey-dovey, girlfriend thing (if you're on that path with her) a bit too much. Elaine's reasons for thinking Bella should move out are quite understandable; she feels like she's a burden to Bella and holding her back from her own life, so she thinks that Bella moving out would be good for her to get her own independent life back again. But Bella just went straight to conspiracy town and thinks this is some tactic to get rid of her as part of her wanting the inheritance.

Also, I kind of agree on your point about the relationships, because it does feel that by limiting the relationships you have in the game, it limits the content of the game, and not just in terms of sexual content, but in terms of character development, relationship development (the non-sexual aspects), and general character/plot exposition.

The release version of Episode 19 made Bella a lot less of a crazy stalker, which was a big improvement. If you believe her dialogue (and presumably the MC would know if she was lying), she did have a somewhat close relationship with him over the years, which makes her lovey-dovey act at least potentially legit. I do agree her paranoia over Elaine is pretty extreme. Unless Elaine really has gone off the deep end and is putting on one hell of an act for the MC, Bella is either jumping at shadows or lying to us.

As far as locking out relationships, I see what you're saying but I can't quite agree; just because you've locked out of a sexual relationship with a character doesn't mean you can't still develop a different sort of relationship with them. It's theoretically possible to become, say, close platonic friends, confidants, mentor/protege, or rivals.

The catch is that it would require spending time and resources creating unique branches for each of the non-sex routes; these being Adult Visual Novels, it's unlikely you'll see a huge return on that particular investment. I'd still prefer it, because I find that sort of attention to detail awesome and because it really can make the different paths genuinely different and engaging, but it would definitely be going over and above the call of duty. (It would also be easier in a game with fewer LIs).

So in a practical sense we're mostly stuck with the option to get a bunch of content by fooling around with a girl or get a tiny portion of the same content by keeping it chaste. Personally, I still prefer the option to get the stripped down chaste routes as long as they still cover the basics.

This game could use a little more work on that front, unfortunately. For example, AFAICT it's impossible to tell Katie about the will conditions unless the MC is sleeping with her; that's sort of a big deal that would just as important to explore on a friend route, and it wouldn't take that much time to add it. But because the opportunity to tell Katie came during her date, it couldn't just be cut and paste into the platonic route.

So it was cut and has been forgotten about since then, which is a shame. (This may happen with Monica too, but I've never tried her route.)

So we’re at the “beginning of the end” -game? Dang it! Okay then after the Next update would you then classify us as being in the endgame at that point? We’d have ~5 updates left, right?

I don't know exactly what's in store for us, but I'd say we're still in the middle game. We've had a lot of teases, but there really hasn't been anything that changes the way the MC has been going about his life. I was hoping the big orgy at the beach house would finally change that, but it seems to have gone out of it's way to avoid that. Even the hints about one the other heiress from the lawyer is limited almost entirely to information we cannot act on (and frankly already suspected).

So yeah, middle game in my book. I'd say were getting to the end of that phase, because there have been a few small details starting to change (like Monica guessing at a relationship with Jenna/Katie, or the end to the long-running Debbie/Lily UST). So hopefully the proper endgame is coming soon, because I'd hate to leave all the resolution until the last minute and wind up cramming it into too small a space.

 

[Avaron1974]

I don't know exactly what's in store for us, but I'd say we're still in the middle game.

6 more planned updates, maybe a couple extra.

Wayyyyyy past mid point.

 

[ename144]

6 more planned updates, maybe a couple extra.

Wayyyyyy past mid point.

You did read the rest of my post, right?

 

[Macinnes]

You phrased it poorly then.

Also, you're making the assumption that plot relevant info, which so far hasn't been tied to any LI (iirc) when it comes to the MC learning about it, is tied to specific LIs.



Again, I doubt plot-relevant info, such as who "Dizzy" is, is or will be tied to romancing specific people.

Perhaps that is just the way it seemed to me playing the game.

 

[Macinnes]

We took a lot of pains to make sure that you didn't miss anything crucial plot wise or even characters by not dating particular girls.

Spoiler

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Great good to know! Thanks for a terrific game!

 

[felicemastronzo]

The release version of Episode 19 made Bella a lot less of a crazy stalker, which was a big improvement. If you believe her dialogue (and presumably the MC would know if she was lying), she did have a somewhat close relationship with him over the years, which makes her lovey-dovey act at least potentially legit. I do agree her paranoia over Elaine is pretty extreme. Unless Elaine really has gone off the deep end and is putting on one hell of an act for the MC, Bella is either jumping at shadows or lying to us.

As far as locking out relationships, I see what you're saying but I can't quite agree; just because you've locked out of a sexual relationship with a character doesn't mean you can't still develop a different sort of relationship with them. It's theoretically possible to become, say, close platonic friends, confidants, mentor/protege, or rivals.

The catch is that it would require spending time and resources creating unique branches for each of the non-sex routes; these being Adult Visual Novels, it's unlikely you'll see a huge return on that particular investment. I'd still prefer it, because I find that sort of attention to detail awesome and because it really can make the different paths genuinely different and engaging, but it would definitely be going over and above the call of duty. (It would also be easier in a game with fewer LIs).

So in a practical sense we're mostly stuck with the option to get a bunch of content by fooling around with a girl or get a tiny portion of the same content by keeping it chaste. Personally, I still prefer the option to get the stripped down chaste routes as long as they still cover the basics.

This game could use a little more work on that front, unfortunately. For example, AFAICT it's impossible to tell Katie about the will conditions unless the MC is sleeping with her; that's sort of a big deal that would just as important to explore on a friend route, and it wouldn't take that much time to add it. But because the opportunity to tell Katie came during her date, it couldn't just be cut and paste into the platonic route.

So it was cut and has been forgotten about since then, which is a shame. (This may happen with Monica too, but I've never tried her route.)



I don't know exactly what's in store for us, but I'd say we're still in the middle game. We've had a lot of teases, but there really hasn't been anything that changes the way the MC has been going about his life. I was hoping the big orgy at the beach house would finally change that, but it seems to have gone out of it's way to avoid that. Even the hints about one the other heiress from the lawyer is limited almost entirely to information we cannot act on (and frankly already suspected).

So yeah, middle game in my book. I'd say were getting to the end of that phase, because there have been a few small details starting to change (like Monica guessing at a relationship with Jenna/Katie, or the end to the long-running Debbie/Lily UST). So hopefully the proper endgame is coming soon, because I'd hate to leave all the resolution until the last minute and wind up cramming it into too small a space.

Bella continues to remain a largely treacherous character to me. already the combination of red hair and crazy eyes make me smell burning ...

a girl who quits her job and cancels her rent, is a girl who never wants to go back to her previous life (of course the perspective on this would change if it turns out that she is running away from something).

in practice, first you bet Elaine's third, and then that of MC. if her relationship with Jolina and the fact that Jolina is the third heiress were confirmed (I don't think Bella is), in practice Bella has staked the entire estate of Donald.


about relationships instead: for now the only one who reacts badly to a breakup is Katie, Monica is almost heartened, Jenna also seems to have enough reason (to all 3 you can talk about the conditions of the will at some point in the relationship, first Katie, then Jenna and finally Monica)

the only other to whom Mc can explicitly declare himself is Lily (Bella being Satan I don't count her). the others are all manageable for now as adventures in a more or less explicit way

focusing on the Foursome, if Mc is related to all 3, if with Katie we have not yet gone beyond friends with benefits, the only one who could complain is Lily, who could take badly the fact that we have already had sex with Debbie, they both know about Katie, and you may have already told
Debbie of your interest in Lily

 

[acewinz]

Personally, I still prefer the option to get the stripped down chaste routes as long as they still cover the basics.
This game could use a little more work on that front, unfortunately. For example, AFAICT it's impossible to tell Katie about the will conditions unless the MC is sleeping with her; that's sort of a big deal that would just as important to explore on a friend route, and it wouldn't take that much time to add it. But because the opportunity to tell Katie came during her date, it couldn't just be cut and paste into the platonic route.

Spoiler: Spoils

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[Holy Bacchus]

the only other to whom Mc can explicitly declare himself is Lily (Bella being Satan I don't count her). the others are all manageable for now as adventures in a more or less explicit way

focusing on the Foursome, if Mc is related to all 3, if with Katie we have not yet gone beyond friends with benefits, the only one who could complain is Lily, who could take badly the fact that we have already had sex with Debbie, they both know about Katie, and you may have already told
Debbie of your interest in Lily

It's the interesting thing about Lily, that the MC and her can have (secretly) declared relationship status (boyfriend and girlfriend), yet she seems to have no problem with hearing Katie declare her feelings for the MC, to hear that she and him have been having sex, and then to give in/succumb to Debbie's feelings for her (even if she still prefers the MC over Debbie). I honestly think that, if Lily were to find out the MC has been with Debbie, she wouldn't care and in fact could be quite thrilled. I think she might like the idea of being in this kind of relationship because not only does she get to be with the MC, but she also gets to do it with her best friends.

I would like to see, if/when this happens again, if there was a bit more action with Katie and Lily. They didn't do anything with each other here and I suppose, given that they both hadn't thought about doing anything with another girl before this that's quite understandable, and it seems like it was Debbie's role to "corrupt" them into enjoying it and (hopefully) wanting more, so maybe they'll get a bit more involved next time. In fact, it could be nice if there was a little something in the next episode, when the MC gets back to the beach house after visiting Wanda and the girls are awake and having breakfast, that as they talk about it, Debbie points out that Katie and Lily are the only ones who didn't kiss each other and that they should do it now, which they will.

 

[Machete]

By the way, if the esteem is around 6 more chapters or anything similar, it looks like we are about two years away from the final version... i'm quite happy i stopped to start playing unfinished games

 

[acewinz]

It's the interesting thing about Lily, that the MC and her can have (secretly) declared relationship status (boyfriend and girlfriend), yet she seems to have no problem with hearing Katie declare her feelings for the MC, to hear that she and him have been having sex, and then to give in/succumb to Debbie's feelings for her (even if she still prefers the MC over Debbie). I honestly think that, if Lily were to find out the MC has been with Debbie, she wouldn't care and in fact could be quite thrilled. I think she might like the idea of being in this kind of relationship because not only does she get to be with the MC, but she also gets to do it with her best friends.

I would like to see, if/when this happens again, if there was a bit more action with Katie and Lily. They didn't do anything with each other here and I suppose, given that they both hadn't thought about doing anything with another girl before this that's quite understandable, and it seems like it was Debbie's role to "corrupt" them into enjoying it and (hopefully) wanting more, so maybe they'll get a bit more involved next time. In fact, it could be nice if there was a little something in the next episode, when the MC gets back to the beach house after visiting Wanda and the girls are awake and having breakfast, that as they talk about it, Debbie points out that Katie and Lily are the only ones who didn't kiss each other and that they should do it now, which they will.

Haha.

Spoiler: spoils

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[felicemastronzo]

It's the interesting thing about Lily, that the MC and her can have (secretly) declared relationship status (boyfriend and girlfriend), yet she seems to have no problem with hearing Katie declare her feelings for the MC, to hear that she and him have been having sex, and then to give in/succumb to Debbie's feelings for her (even if she still prefers the MC over Debbie). I honestly think that, if Lily were to find out the MC has been with Debbie, she wouldn't care and in fact could be quite thrilled. I think she might like the idea of being in this kind of relationship because not only does she get to be with the MC, but she also gets to do it with her best friends.

I would like to see, if/when this happens again, if there was a bit more action with Katie and Lily. They didn't do anything with each other here and I suppose, given that they both hadn't thought about doing anything with another girl before this that's quite understandable, and it seems like it was Debbie's role to "corrupt" them into enjoying it and (hopefully) wanting more, so maybe they'll get a bit more involved next time. In fact, it could be nice if there was a little something in the next episode, when the MC gets back to the beach house after visiting Wanda and the girls are awake and having breakfast, that as they talk about it, Debbie points out that Katie and Lily are the only ones who didn't kiss each other and that they should do it now, which they will.

Lily could still ignore the depth of the relationship between Katie and MC, after all Katie is not very open even with her two friends about her feelings, I think she would hardly forgive MC once she clears up with Katie.

instead as for Debbie, Lily does what MC tells her to do, if MC advises her to experiment she experiments, but does not seem to change the idea about her sexual orientation.

by the way, when Debbie says she thought about MC while kissing Lily I became a 13 year old girl on her first crush

 

[ename144]

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Spoiler: The names of all the stars, and of all living things, and the whole history of Middle-Earth and Over-heaven and of the Sundering Seas, of course! What less?

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[acewinz]

Spoiler: The names of all the stars, and of all living things, and the whole history of Middle-Earth and Over-heaven and of the Sundering Seas, of course! What less?

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Spoiler: spoils

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[cakeny]

You phrased it poorly then.

Also, you're making the assumption that plot relevant info, which so far hasn't been tied to any LI (iirc) when it comes to the MC learning about it, is tied to specific LIs.



Again, I doubt plot-relevant info, such as who "Dizzy" is, is or will be tied to romancing specific people.

Aye, plot information will likely be forced on us like it was with Jenna.

 

[cakeny]

After this episode, I don't particularly trust Bella anymore. It really felt like she was trying to turn the MC against Elaine and she was playing up the whole lovey-dovey, girlfriend thing (if you're on that path with her) a bit too much. Elaine's reasons for thinking Bella should move out are quite understandable; she feels like she's a burden to Bella and holding her back from her own life, so she thinks that Bella moving out would be good for her to get her own independent life back again. But Bella just went straight to conspiracy town and thinks this is some tactic to get rid of her as part of her wanting the inheritance.

Also, I kind of agree on your point about the relationships, because it does feel that by limiting the relationships you have in the game, it limits the content of the game, and not just in terms of sexual content, but in terms of character development, relationship development (the non-sexual aspects), and general character/plot exposition.

Did you ever trust her? She has been trying to throw Elaine under the bus since shortly after she is first introduced in game.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I would like some advice from those who carry out more routes

Is starting from the 12th chapter a good idea?

it seems to me that previously we are always around the presentations, and that from that point the story begins to take off.

or risk of missing important passages with certain characters?

for now I would like to carry on separately:
Lily
Debbie
Lily + Debbie
Katie
Monica

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Haha.

Spoiler: spoils

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Can't I believe I forgot about that.

So yeah, that's something, but I still stand by wanting to see a bit more of these two getting it on in another foursome or even threesome scene.

Lily could still ignore the depth of the relationship between Katie and MC, after all Katie is not very open even with her two friends about her feelings, I think she would hardly forgive MC once she clears up with Katie.

instead as for Debbie, Lily does what MC tells her to do, if MC advises her to experiment she experiments, but does not seem to change the idea about her sexual orientation.

by the way, when Debbie says she thought about MC while kissing Lily I became a 13 year old girl on her first crush

Lily can be still be straight because she prefers the MC, but doesn't mean she can't enjoy having fun with her girl friends, especially Debbie. With the MC, it's love for Lily, with Debbie and Katie, it's fun and probably not much more than that, but doesn't mean she wouldn't want to do it again, and again, and again.

Debbie's in love with Lily and probably still hopes she can get Lily to fall in love with her, but she seems happy knowing that Lily has at least accepted she has these feelings and that Lily is OK with doing these intimate things with her. Debbie also seems very happy to have the MC as well if you've gone down that route and she did a good job getting Katie's sapphic motor revving.

As for Katie, she'd probably not be best pleased to find out right now that he was having sex with Debbie and Lily before this, but perhaps this night has changed her a little bit. I honestly hope she doesn't go back to being the totally possessive Katie she was before because I think that it would be good character growth for her if she becomes comfortable seeing the MC be intimate with Debbie and Lily because it turns her on and she likes sharing him with her friends. So maybe by making her more and more comfortable as time goes on, it might make her less inclined to rip his head off if she finds out about him & Lily and him & Debbie later on.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Can't I believe I forgot about that.

So yeah, that's something, but I still stand by wanting to see a bit more of these two getting it on in another foursome or even threesome scene.



Lily can be still be straight because she prefers the MC, but doesn't mean she can't enjoy having fun with her girl friends, especially Debbie. With the MC, it's love for Lily, with Debbie and Katie, it's fun and probably not much more than that, but doesn't mean she wouldn't want to do it again, and again, and again.

Debbie's in love with Lily and probably still hopes she can get Lily to fall in love with her, but she seems happy knowing that Lily has at least accepted she has these feelings and that Lily is OK with doing these intimate things with her. Debbie also seems very happy to have the MC as well if you've gone down that route and she did a good job getting Katie's sapphic motor revving.

As for Katie, she'd probably not be best pleased to find out right now that he was having sex with Debbie and Lily before this, but perhaps this night has changed her a little bit. I honestly hope she doesn't go back to being the totally possessive Katie she was before because I think that it would be good character growth for her if she becomes comfortable seeing the MC be intimate with Debbie and Lily because it turns her on and she likes sharing him with her friends. So maybe by making her more and more comfortable as time goes on, it might make her less inclined to rip his head off if she finds out about him & Lily and him & Debbie later on.

Katie strikes me as a girl whose dominant trait is jealousy, and I don't mind that. she is ready to fight for MC, but I don't think she accepts anything less than 100% of MC's loyalty

I don't think she would like an encore .. she always gives me the idea of who keeps giving you rope waiting for you to hang yourself.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Katie strikes me as a girl whose dominant trait is jealousy, and I don't mind that. she is ready to fight for MC, but I don't think she accepts anything less than 100% of MC's loyalty

I don't think she would like an encore .. she always gives me the idea of who keeps giving you rope waiting for you to hang yourself.

I think Katie deserves more character growth than that. To have her go through that experience and then to have her come out the other side like, "Well, that was fun, but it's never happening again and if you ever so much as compliment them, [MC], I'll cut your balls off", would just keep Katie standing in place, never moving, never changing, and I think that would be poor character development for her.

The least we could get from her after this is an acknowledgement and acceptance that she enjoyed it, a lot more than she ever thought she would, and that she's open to doing it again. She can even be fine with them kissing him from now on, but only when they're together as a group, and over time perhaps she can change further to be OK with a poly/mini-harem relationship involving all of them. Another foursome or even threesome with her and Debbie or her and Lily would go a long way towards that.

 

[voyeurkind]

There are women who identify as lesbian that are happily married/committed to men, as well as women who consider themselves hetero-normative that have relationships with other women.

Love can override sexual identity, at least in some situations.