3.60 star(s) 5 Votes

"Use" or "Don't Use" Side-Images with Dialogue Sprite Conversations


  • Total voters
    38
  • Poll closed .

c3p0

Forum Fanatic
Respected User
Nov 20, 2017
5,436
12,923
For those who were wondering where we stood on things, this is the announcement we just made on Twitter...

Although it is totally up to you and I can understand, respect and support you either way. I myself would wait a little until they change some of their entirely stupid decision and trying to make damage control.
On the other side I also fully understand that just the stupid decision from them was enough and thus simple because of that, you decide against the use of Unity.

The whole thing remind me with the Xbox/Microsoft with their always on and Kinect requirement as well as EA with their Sim City and their always on requirement
 

ASLPro3D

Engaged Member
Donor
Game Developer
Sep 16, 2017
3,451
11,373
Although it is totally up to you and I can understand, respect and support you either way. I myself would wait a little until they change some of their entirely stupid decision and trying to make damage control.
On the other side I also fully understand that just the stupid decision from them was enough and thus simple because of that, you decide against the use of Unity.

The whole thing remind me with the Xbox/Microsoft with their always on and Kinect requirement as well as EA with their Sim City and their always on requirement
I could see the EA thing for sure, since that is who is currently running Unity, the guy (John Riccitiello) who was asked to resign from EA due to poor performance and bad decisions that didn't help EA's public view and relations... he is repeating the same problems at Unity.

Trust is earned and hard to earn back, even if they walked back this very terrible idea, how long till we face a new one? Let's not forget, what does their "runtime" contain for it to report back to their servers?

How can they honestly say that they can tell the difference between a charity runtime, or a demo runtime or even a pirated runtime to provide an accurate accounting of installs made on a person's system... in fact, just what is in that runtime that allows them to know how many times it was installed on your system?

It's kind of hinky... we have to 'trust' them that their data gathering is accurate when they ship us a bill?

Trust a company who suddenly changed their terms of service, threatened to charge creators retroactively (violating their own TOS)... trust a company who's major board sold stock just DAYS BEFORE this announcement was made (they knew it would tank their stock and be unpopular so sold the stock for millions of dollars before making the announcement)...

Yeah, no... to many issues for me to just say, "Hey, they walked the plan back, we're OK now..." and trust them not to put out a revised idea a month or two later??

No thanks.

Sucks that Epadder spent almost 2 years now converting things to work in Unity, saves and script imports, players pathing system, the ability to have some animation for menu and character stuff... a ton of work paid for, modules purchased, seat purchased, hours tirelessly spent trying to get things to work and learn new scripting language... lost.

Time and money lost.

Really sucks. Sucks hard and I am not enjoying it... not one bit.

I am STUCK IN REN'PY AGAIN!!! Not that I dislike Ren'Py, it just doesn't have a battler or combat system that would easily work and not create bugs up the wazzoo... my ideas, plans need to be altered now because we are reverting back, all because a couple of ALREADY RICH MOTHERFUCKERS want to find a way to get richer, while possibly violating Insider Trading laws and also customer/player privacy by tracking them.

Yeah, this fucking really sucks.
 

c3p0

Forum Fanatic
Respected User
Nov 20, 2017
5,436
12,923
Sucks that Epadder spent almost 2 years now converting things to work in Unity, saves and script imports, players pathing system, the ability to have some animation for menu and character stuff... a ton of work paid for, modules purchased, seat purchased, hours tirelessly spent trying to get things to work and learn new scripting language... lost.
Perhaps would be an alternative?:unsure: They currently get a lot more attention than before. I'm sure, that is totally incoherent to the decision of another major engine maker Although how much money or time this would cost I don't know, yet I think they had annouce a Unity importer.

How can they honestly say that they can tell the difference between a charity runtime, or a demo runtime or even a pirated runtime to provide an accurate accounting of installs made on a person's system... in fact, just what is in that runtime that allows them to know how many times it was installed on your system?
1 installation, 2 installations, 3 installations, ...
Only thing I could see if the installations are different (eg. somewhere in there something like installtionType = "Demo" or so). But I very much doubt that they can distinguish between a brought installation or a pirated one.
 
Last edited:

ASLPro3D

Engaged Member
Donor
Game Developer
Sep 16, 2017
3,451
11,373
We discussed GoDot and sadly, won't be able to handle our needs that we had planned, we'd have an easier time meeting at least a partial of our needs through Ren'Py.

We are looking into Unreal, there are some blueprints out there for VN's already, but it is going to up to Epadder if we can switch to that, we may need to look for someone who has some experience in UE already and help us make the transition quicker.
 

c3p0

Forum Fanatic
Respected User
Nov 20, 2017
5,436
12,923
We discussed GoDot and sadly, won't be able to handle our needs that we had planned, we'd have an easier time meeting at least a partial of our needs through Ren'Py.

We are looking into Unreal, there are some blueprints out there for VN's already, but it is going to up to Epadder if we can switch to that, we may need to look for someone who has some experience in UE already and help us make the transition quicker.
What I like from Ren'Py, (even RPGM), Unity, Godot and a lot of others, they run on a somehow potato PC. Unreal on the other end is another beast and the only one I struggle mostly to tun on my (still currently in use) potato PC. Sure, the others could also be too much for my old potato, but in 8/10 case it would run, where with Unreal it was the other way and in 8/10 case it wouldn't run.

So, although, I don't dislike Unreal per se, my potato PC seems that it does dislike Unreal and vice versa and this has somehow rubbed off on me too. Sure, if the new not yet but tomorrow potato PC, I won't have that problem anymore...
 
  • Like
Reactions: ASLPro3D

Knight_of_the_lance

Active Member
Feb 23, 2020
964
1,780
Wouldn't Unity need permission from the end user to gather Data from their computer? At least in some European country, I heard laws concerning privacy vastly skew toward end user compared to the rest of the world. The way they want to do things may be illegal somewhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ASLPro3D

ASLPro3D

Engaged Member
Donor
Game Developer
Sep 16, 2017
3,451
11,373
What I like from Ren'Py, (even RPGM), Unity, Godot and a lot of others, they run on a somehow potato PC. Unreal on the other end is another beast and the only one I struggle mostly to tun on my (still currently in use) potato PC. Sure, the others could also be too much for my old potato, but in 8/10 case it would run, where with Unreal it was the other way and in 8/10 case it wouldn't run.

So, although, I don't dislike Unreal per se, my potato PC seems that it does dislike Unreal and vice versa and this has somehow rubbed off on me too. Sure, if the new not yet but tomorrow potato PC, I won't have that problem anymore...
I don't think you have much to worry about from us... right now we are sort of screwed and just going back to Ren'Py with our tails between our legs. There is no way that we can take the time to learn a new program language or reinvest a bunch of time and money into another engine right now.

While GoDot is free, there are issues with it that we'd have to deal with... as Epadder put it: "Dialogic is out of date... and also feels like the same issue that I have with the Unreal framework that it's going to be hard to tie custom stuff into.

Ren'py and Naninovel both built some way in to inject stuff. Ren'py's is very simple where there are a good amount of hoops with Naninovel... but still designed with it in mind."


So, you are safe with your potato of a computer, my friend... we can't do the really cool stuff that we were planning to do and I am back to working with Ren'Py for a while.
 
  • Like
Reactions: c3p0

Haast

Member
Mar 19, 2018
464
736
New Zealand has protections for software like that, Microsoft was pissed a few years back when they were told they had to alter their products to be allowed to sell them here, most AAA game groups have to put in that disclaimer where they say any legal cases blah blah blah US Court, but more often than not the cases would get moved to NZ Courts if a Kiwi is involved due to our laws protecting us, it just isn't worth it for them(And it makes the companies look bad).
 
  • Like
Reactions: ASLPro3D

ASLPro3D

Engaged Member
Donor
Game Developer
Sep 16, 2017
3,451
11,373
Wouldn't Unity need permission from the end user to gather Data from their computer? At least in some European country, I heard laws concerning privacy vastly skew toward end user compared to the rest of the world. The way they want to do things may be illegal somewhere.
Actually, they would and that is one of the problems that I am seeing with this... just what data are they scrapping from the end user of the game... how can they realistically determine which install is a valid install, which one is a charity install, which one is a pirated install?

They honestly can't, in my opinion, there is no way that they've managed to solve a problem that the movie, music and rest of the video game industry has never been able to solve... unless they are planning to install HEAVY DRM into the Runtime, which could act like some sort of dongle and would seriously violate privacy laws and open themselves to some really serious lawsuits...

But then again, I wouldn't put it past some moron that calls his 'bread & butter' (developers)... what were the words he used? Oh yeah, I remember he said “some of the biggest fucking idiots” about developers who use their software, of course this is also coming from a guy who wanted to charge people playing BATTLEFIELD a dollar for every time they wanted to reload their weapon.

The guy is a douche bag, fired from EA (and responsible for having EA the most hated company in a poll taken about US companies... hated more than COMCAST or BANK OF AMERICA for TWO STRAIGHT YEARS!)... so, yeah, this whole "Trust Me Bro" approach to billing developers for "Installs" that "they believe that they can accurately determine" (their words) is straight up bullshit or an invasion of end user privacy.

Yeah, even if they reversed their entire decision, the fact that they completely retroactively changed their licensing agreement and Terms of Service (even removing it from their GitHub), violating their promise to developers and seeking to retroactively charge them, as well as price them completely out of business... has damaged any trust I'd have for that company, no way would I go back to them... who's to say that they wouldn't come out with a revised attempt 4 months later... or less.

Can't trust them, kick them to the curb... sure as fuck ain't climbing (or inviting them back) in bed with me.
 

ASLPro3D

Engaged Member
Donor
Game Developer
Sep 16, 2017
3,451
11,373
New Zealand has protections for software like that, Microsoft was pissed a few years back when they were told they had to alter their products to be allowed to sell them here, most AAA game groups have to put in that disclaimer where they say any legal cases blah blah blah US Court, but more often than not the cases would get moved to NZ Courts if a Kiwi is involved due to our laws protecting us, it just isn't worth it for them(And it makes the companies look bad).
Yep, look at Apple's recent lawsuit that happened as a result of that bullshit... and, yet, this bozo thinks he has found some way to avoid it. Sorry, but I don't want my company (and many others don't want to be) tied up with a company who's business is going to be in court and in danger of suddenly shuttering leaving us with no software support or protection either... not the kind of circus I want to be a part of... I have no interest in getting into bed with a clown... clowns are just creepy.
 

c3p0

Forum Fanatic
Respected User
Nov 20, 2017
5,436
12,923
So, you are safe with your potato of a computer, my friend... we can't do the really cool stuff that we were planning to do and I am back to working with Ren'Py for a while.
I'm trying to change and it is looking better - after the delay with the mainboard and my usual online shop going to filing for insolvency after some nice guys revoke a supplier cost
But then again, I wouldn't put it past some moron that calls his 'bread & butter' (developers)... what were the words he used? Oh yeah, I remember he said “some of the biggest fucking idiots” about developers who use their software, of course this is also coming from a guy who wanted to charge people playing BATTLEFIELD a dollar for every time they wanted to reload their weapon.
Well, isn't he a keeper?:ROFLMAO:
The guy is a douche bag, fired from EA (and responsible for having EA the most hated company in a poll taken about US companies... hated more than COMCAST or BANK OF AMERICA for TWO STRAIGHT YEARS!)... so, yeah, this whole "Trust Me Bro" approach to billing developers for "Installs" that "they believe that they can accurately determine" (their words) is straight up bullshit or an invasion of end user privacy.
That is also a kind of big achievement. Perhaps next time, they should point out where their own goal is and the where the goal stand that he should actually but that fucking ball in it.:whistle:
...Apple...
The same company that try to sell the change from the proparitary to USB-C as their own idea - instead of admitting that they simple must because of EU regulations? The same one that can - most likely - put shit in a showcase and the customer would fight for it? The same one that can sell things that are comon outside their products as the "latest" invention?....
Yes, I'm not going to hide, that I don't like them very much:LOL:
 

ASLPro3D

Engaged Member
Donor
Game Developer
Sep 16, 2017
3,451
11,373
The same company that try to sell the change from the proparitary to USB-C as their own idea - instead of admitting that they simple must because of EU regulations? The same one that can - most likely - put shit in a showcase and the customer would fight for it? The same one that can sell things that are comon outside their products as the "latest" invention?....
Yes, I'm not going to hide, that I don't like them very much:LOL:
Yeah, I don't like them either.
No offense, but I don't need a fucking phone hanging on my hip that costs as much as my first car did back in the 70's... ain't no one on God's Green Earth that important that I want to talk to while in public or try to impress... and hey, let's brick an item because it is two years old... they will always buy a new iPad... not this husband, nope, sorry wifey, it is Kindle for you now and if you want your Apple Brick, it is under the kitchen table keeping it level. :LOL::ROFLMAO:
 

ASLPro3D

Engaged Member
Donor
Game Developer
Sep 16, 2017
3,451
11,373
P.S.: Noted point, excuse some of my spelling and grammar errors, writing while both emotional and on painkillers from my neck surgery a couple of weeks ago doesn't make for a very well written statement folks... but despite the many errors in it, leaving Unity isn't one of them.
 

ASLPro3D

Engaged Member
Donor
Game Developer
Sep 16, 2017
3,451
11,373
latest-update-1600x700.png

Migration back to Ren’Py & Other Things… – September 28, 2023
(As posted on our Patreon Page)

Hello everyone, I apologize that it has taken me so long to write an update for all of you, a lot has been going on around here and I will do my best to fill all of you in with what has been transpiring.

First of all, the issue with Unity and the Unity Game Engine, many of you may already know what’s been going on, with addition to our previous statements on how the choices made by Unity, left us with a very sour taste in our mouth and had us making a statement, like thousands of other game developers, jumping ship and refusing to use Unity.

Despite Unity coming out and making a public apology for their [intentional] screw up and adjusting their pricing and usage plan to be more palatable, we’ve decided to stick by our original decision of never using Unity Game Engine for any of our games again.

There were more reasons for us to remain with our original decision of leaving them, the biggest is TRUST. Unity’s actions and their recent announcements still does nothing to restore our faith in a company that seems more interested in microtransactions, rewriting and changing their Terms of Service & EULA’s retroactively and whose executives have little regard and respect for the developers who use their product.

Trust lost is never easily earned back and honestly, we don’t have time, energy or finances that allow our product to you be dictated by someone else and have us yo-yoing whenever they make a mistake…which seems in the last 5 years to be par for course with them.

As such, we… by unanimous decision… will never be returning to using the Unity Game Engine.

So, where does things stand with us and the release that you are all waiting for?

As soon as we made our original announcement on September 14th (my wife’s birthday, no less) to all of you, Epadder and I immediately shifted our focus and work from the Unity Game Engine and began the task of redoing all of our work for our game and release in Ren’Py.

Our first step was to take a solid look at our objectives and reasons for initially shifting from Ren’Py and using the Unity Game Engine in the first place and if they couldn’t be replicated in Ren’Py then restructure our entire game away from those original abilities and plans.

Once done, our next task has been to try and mimic the UI that we designed in Unity, to now look and work as similar as possible in Ren’Py… this includes more than just look and design, but also in functionality and ease of use for all of you… which, by the below examples, you’ll see Epadder’s progress in that objective.


Since we know that migrating and redoing all of the work that we spent nearly two years doing in the Unity Game Engine into Ren’Py was going to take time, I have been working to restructure the original Prologue, as well as, Chapter One, Two and Three to be more updated to the skills that I’ve learned in Daz Studio these past [nearly] two years and also make sure that the Prologue matches the format to the rest of the game…

…this means getting rid of ‘comic book panels’ and ‘split screens’ that I had used in our first game and was using in the Prologue we will be release to all of you soon and instead, creating the necessary backgrounds and sprites needed for dialogue scenes and also redoing some of the original renders.

Doing this ensures that our game will be similar in format, artwork, design and layout from beginning to end, which will also help the transition between game releases from looking different and distracting.

So, like “Wicked Choices: Book One”, “Wicked Choices: Bed Chambers” will be completely done in Ren’Py from start to finish and the original goals, plans and bells & whistles we intended to have in it, will instead be adopted in “Wicked Choices: Agents of Karma” which will like be done in the Godot Game Engine and will continue the story arc that you’ve started in the two previous games that were done in Ren’Py, including an import script for your game saves.

Anyhow, in between going to physical therapy and trying to heal back up from the hell I am being put through there, I have already been going through the task of updating the game’s Prologue to match the game’s other chapters that have been done.

Which now brings us to the subject of health status… as those of you who have been following me on Twitter/Twix/X or whatever the hell it is called now and at other places, I am doing much better after my surgery a month ago.

Of course, it still only being 4 weeks since the surgery, I am still restricted from doing something and stuff, but have also been issued Physical Therapy… three times a week for the next 8 weeks… and have been doing that for the last week and a half, up until recently… though, I am thinking about stopping my attendance of it.

The individual that I have as a physical therapist is an @$$hole to be nice about them. You know, one of those really well looking douche bags, who seems to think they are god’s gift to mortal man and knows better than my surgeon or even me about the limits of my own body.

Those who know me well, know that I am an overachiever and the sort of person who pushes himself to the breaking point, this particular individual tries to push me beyond it and never listens to me and tries to guilt me into trying to do more.

I kind of reached my breaking point with the individual and told my wife that I was going to go in on Monday and tell him to ‘back off’ or I was going to ninja kick his ass all over the therapy place the next time he studies himself in the mirror like some damn peacock.

So, I politely (which is a rarity for me, given the fact that I had already reached my ‘breaking point’ with him) told him that I think things weren’t working out between him and I and that I would like a different therapist if I was going to continue there.

With a few “tchs” and sighs, he informed me that they couldn’t just reassign anyone without messing up everyone’s schedule and that he was disappointed in the fact that I wasn’t interested in achieving my potential and would have to inform the doctor and insurance company that I was being ‘non-compliant’ in therapy… and that he would ‘back off’ as I told him.

I went back yesterday and, yeah, he started up his shit again… so, I grabbed my shit and headed for the door. With him shouting behind me and threatening to tell my insurance company and doctor that I was being lazy, unmotivated and ‘non-compliant’ to his instruction (which of course had other people’s attention, trying to embarrass me)… so, I handed my things to the wife, smiled and told her that I would be back, looked at one of the other therapists and told her that it might be a good idea to call an ambulance for the guy… at which point this 20 something year old priss realized that I was very motivated in putting his prissy ass in the hospital.

Apparently, seeing the look on my face and the intensity of anger in my expression as I slowly made my way towards him, with a maniacal grin and twinkle in my eyes, had him running to the offices in the back and the resounding echo of its door slamming shut.

Sighing in frustration that my prey had no desire to witness just how committed, motivated and compliant that I was to my intent in dislocating an elbow or an arm (or two) of his, I politely apologized to the other people in the place for the disruption, wished them a good night and speedy healing and collected my things from my wife and left with her.

So, I will be calling my surgeon’s personal assistant in the morning (it is nearly 4am here) and asking if there is any other place that she could refer me to, or if I can just do the shit at home…

But, yeah, that is how the status of my health currently is right now.

Okay, time for me to finish this up, hit the rack for a couple of hours, get up and call my doctor’s office and then get back to our migration to Ren’Py… I hope that you are all doing well and thank you for your support and putting up with all of the BS that we’ve had to go through.

Take it easy and will talk to you all again soon.

~Jack
 
3.60 star(s) 5 Votes