Unreal Engine Wild Life [Patreon Build 2024.06.14] [Adeptus Steve]

[Purple_Heart]

That's the reality, whether you accept it or not. I suggest you to take a look at the many Illusion-based games here.

And again, using mods allowing for deeper modification and post-processing for better graphics doesn't take Illusion as the base for everything out of the equation. You don't need to try to move the goalposts just because you figured out your assumptions were silly.

Reality is I have not moved "goal post", you either have reading comprehension issues or don't know who and/or which post you are replying to. Let's see your example game(Harem Hotel):

• Background locations are not vanilla
• Character skins(textures) are not vanilla
• Character hairs are not vanilla
• Character eyes are not vanilla
• Character ears are not vanilla
• Character make-ups are not vanilla
• Character clothes and accessories are not vanilla
• Special effects such as cum on characters are not vanilla, if you join a certain discord channel you can find tons of skin overlay mods, including cum overlays
• I'm 90% sure characters use custom shaders, not vanilla shaders
• Character poses are not vanilla and are created using mods, for example you can't bend clothes even in Studio.exe, you can't make characters hold their skirt up, there is a mod that allows you to change bones and blendshapes to do that

 

[Nihil5320]

My post had the multiple times of likes than people saying he should rather focus on the story mode, so like I said it's rather your opinion that's deviating from the norm in this thread.

Pointing at two random posts and counting the likes isn't a great metric, for example I could point at this one where you made the same suggestion and this response telling you to shut the fuck up and I'd come to a completely different conclusion.

What I do know is that I've seen quite a few people complain that this game is just a sandbox but only a few say they want that to be the sole focus, and I'm pretty confident if I go back and check I'll find that quite a few of those times were you.

Since Harem Hotel has over 4637 paying members on Patreon alone, with Tiers ranging up to $10 per month, many people do.

And zero of them paid for those Illusion assets. Maybe one did if the creator didn't pirate it... one sale! In the big bucks now lads!

The VN creator market is huge. There are thousands of people buying assets who will stop developing their games after just the very first months - but the sales for the assets were made. That's typical on the asset market. People are eager to develop something, they buy stuff in bulk and then they just end up not doing anything.

Huge! They could grab a fraction of thousands of users!

This game is not a simple asset, the development cost is exponentially higher but made up for in volume and you have to keep your pricing low by amortising the fixed development costs over hundreds of thousands of sales (or more). That doesn't work if you are marketing your game at developers and not end users which is why pricing is usually different for specialist software aimed at that kind of market.

He's not late into the project lifecycle, they just started over again. The only thing that's far developed is the sandbox. The story does only exist on paper at the moment. And the sandbox is..

..what people actually are paying for, since it's the only thing they could play for years.

They've got quest systems, pathfinding, combat mechanics, an entire world map blocked out, agent behaviour (including combat AI) and they are

You must be registered to see the links

:

Story mode information:
The story implementations have entered spoiler territory so we have included warnings at key dialogue options.

All of this would essentially be wasted effort if they do as you suggest and abandon all that functionality and frankly I think you're unhinged if you think it would be well received by supporters.

This may have escaped your notice but this is a crowd funded game, people don't just pay for what the game is they pay for what it is going to be. I'm honestly not even sure what you're talking about in regard to them just starting over again, I can't see anything regarding a major refactor in any recent posts?

 

[Fuchsschweif]

Reality is I have not moved "goal post"

Jep you did, when you tried to change "nobody is making games from Illusion assets" to "they don't all do games with Illusion assets only". Two keywords that completely move the goalposts because you figured out you've been wrong all the time, so you're trying to make your argument a bit more flexible. Yet you still fail to understand the essential aspect.

Character poses are not vanilla and are created using mods, for example you can't bend clothes even in Studio.exe, you can't make characters hold their skirt up, there is a mod that allows you to change bones and blendshapes to do that

And yet it can then all be done in that easy-to-use environment instead of having to learn Blender and to it all by yourself from scratch or work into a way more complex software. That's the point of the entire argument. And if these assets and mods are sold through a marketplace with a provision to the developer, then that means profit. If you deny that fact, then you also deny that VAM or the UE marketplace makes serious profit for content creators and the developers behind said marketplaces.

And still many games use dozens of the original Illusion sex pose animations for many scenes, regardless of whether they do some custom things on top or not. If you want to make your own custom characters for your game, you'll end up using the character creator that comes with Illusions Studio software. Even if you purchased assets with new hairstyles, clothes and such.

It's all centered around the core software. This principle can't be so hard to grasp for you.

Pointing at two random posts and counting the likes isn't a great metric

You started it when you tried to derive the general consensus of the thread from 2 pages of conversations, but I am glad you realized your argument was not well thought out.

And zero of them paid for those Illusion assets. Maybe one did if the creator didn't pirate it... one sale! In the big bucks now lads!

Read your question again without trying to move the goalposts. Spoiler: You asked how many people are buying the "crappy VN's", - the games made from Illusion because you couldn't believe this is a thing. Your reply has nothing to do with your original question.

But hey, from "I have never played a single game made from Illusion" and "I don't know how people use it" to someone trying to explain what the asset market would look like in only half an hour! Congratulations.

That doesn't work if you are marketing your game at developers and not end users which is why pricing is usually different for specialist software aimed at that kind of market.

Again, you market it at both - see VAM.

They've got quest systems, pathfinding, combat mechanics, an entire world map blocked out, agent behaviour (including combat AI) and they are

You must be registered to see the links

:

Which is all sandbox stuff and not story. Do you know what a story is? The tools you listed help creators to create content with the sandbox.

All of this would essentially be wasted effort if they do as you suggest and abandon all that functionality and frankly I think you're unhinged if you think it would be well received by supporters.

It's what the supporters are paying for, whether you like it or not. You pay money to get instant access to what's currently there, and that's been the sandbox since it was released on Patreon - period.

This may have escaped your notice but this is a crowd funded game,

This may have escaped your notice, but with crowd funding you usually pay once and then wait happily for the game being developed and released. If you pay for monthly updates because you want access to the little new stuff, and the new stuff is sandbox only, then you're clearly interested in the sandbox aspects.

I know you're trying to change the narrative desperately, but saying that people are mainly funding the game for the story mode while what they're actually playing and paying for is the sandbox mode, is just nonsense. That's the less likely option, merely made up by your wishful thinking.

 

[Nihil5320]

Read your question again without trying to move the goalposts. Spoiler: You asked how many people are buying the "crappy VN's", - the games made from Illusion because you couldn't believe this is a thing. Your reply has nothing to do with your original question.

Hmmm... did I really ask that or make any attempt to estimate it?

That's a good point, to be clear my closing comment was in reference to your opinion deviating from the norm in this thread. As in you're one of a minority pushing for this particular title to abandon development of its core gameplay loop. I have no idea how many or what percentage of users actually buy or pirate those crappy VNs.

Bit of a moot point in this context mind you as users buying/pirating VNs built with a games assets doesn't translate to sales for that game, and marketing to VN creators gives you a significantly smaller target market. It's also extremely unlikely that you're going to convince this developer to completely change direction this late in the project lifecycle, you're essentially howling into the void asking the developer to drop major features that a large number of their users specifically paid for.

Oh, nope, I didn't. In fact I explicitly called out that it doesn't matter, which is getting to be a bit of a recurring theme in this discussion given that your next comment is claiming I've never played an Illusion title... I've played every Illusion title, and I'm a developer. I just haven't used Studio.

Anyway it's up to you I guess, keep howling into the wind if you want, I was just trying to highlight that you are wasting your time.

 

[Viixby]

Ok, thanks I will try that



But what do you mean by hardware limitations? Is it related to my hardware you mean? Because the game runs smoothly, no lag at all.

The textures only drop when there is like ram or vram limitations or something, it's essentially automatic. For example I never get that texture loss even on max settings, I have to be in a very intensive sandbox map with lots of characters before it starts happening.

If I play this on my laptop or a weaker system, it happens sooner or instantly, it's PC hardware limitation. You can get around it by playing in Dx11 to reduce resources, or disable global illumination/lumen.

 

[Fuchsschweif]

Hmmm... did I really ask that or make any attempt to estimate it?

Yes, you did.

Oh, nope, I didn't.

You did, there's the screen white on black.

Anyway it's up to you I guess, keep howling into the wind if you want, I was just trying to highlight that you are wasting your time.

You're wasting my time, that's a big difference. See here:

I played Illusion games and never once used the Studio, and I've never played a VN built using the same but I'm going to go out on a limb and presume that they're shit.

To sum it up:

- You never used Studio once, so you don't really know what it is capable of
- You never played a single VN made with Illusion, so you don't know how popular this way of developing games is, nor how well it's being perceived by the NSFW community or what the quality can look like with a few mods

So why exactly are we having a conversation where you're trying to educate me or people in this thread about the possibilities of such a business model? I hope you don't carry this negative attitude of saying nope in advance to things you don't understand well enough through your daily life, that's a good way to be miserable seven days a week.

Anyways, glad we sorted this out.

 

[Nihil5320]

Yes, you did.

View attachment 3802370



You did, there's the screen white on black.

I know, I literally quoted that post, but saying that I don't know something != wanting to know something. And my literal next sentence was highlighting that this is a moot point. You just suck at reading comprehension which basically sums up the last few pages of discussion with me and purple heart.

 

[benisfug]

Yes it was, I played it around that time and everyone spoke about it. It was the only alternative to the old "3D Sexvilla" by TK17 and it was ahead in terms of graphics. Nobody was fascinated by the generic 0815 story-sandbox that offered what 1000 other titles did as well.



Then ask yourself why they survived 30+ years, then became the state of the art developer of true sandbox and managed to still die off after that.

Hint:



There's a reason why KK and HS resulted in a decade of hundreds of VN's made with it. Their other titles are nothing in comparison.

Bruh you're telling me the 30+ year old company died off after becoming a "state of the art developer of true sandbox" and you still aren't seeing the extremely obvious connection.

 

[Purple_Heart]

Jep you did, when you tried to change "nobody is making games from Illusion assets" to "they don't all do games with Illusion assets only". Two keywords that completely move the goalposts because you figured out you've been wrong all the time, so you're trying to make your argument a bit more flexible. Yet you still fail to understand the essential aspect.

That's your interpretation of what I said. In reality, I didn't write those sentences, you did.

 

[Fuchsschweif]

I know, I literally quoted that post, but saying that I don't know something != wanting to know something.

This is another of your pathetic attempts to move the goalposts.

Here's the correct chronology of things:

There are tons of games out there made with Illusion assets, lots of them are on this site.

I have no idea how many or what percentage of users actually buy or pirate those crappy VNs.

Since Harem Hotel has over 4637 paying members on Patreon alone, with Tiers ranging up to $10 per month, many people do.

As you can see, the subject was about how many people buy those "crappy VNs".

This is your reply:



So suddenly, after learning that there's actually a high demand for games made with Illusion assets, you entirely change the narrative and speak about the revenue made with selling assets for that one single game.

You couldn't defeat the argument by proving that nobody wants to buy games made with Illusion, so you desperately grab the next thing you can cling to and try to defeat it over pointing at the allegedly small revenue.

Congratulations - this is the core definition of moving the goalposts.

Let's just ignore the fact that you're acting as if that was the only developer in the world who creates a game with Illusion as a base so that you can pretend this business model would only lead to a single sale.

You're so deep down in the web of your excuses, there's no way out anymore. Not even if you try to blame your lack of understanding on my reading comprehension.

Bruh you're telling me the 30+ year old company died off after becoming a "state of the art developer of true sandbox" and you still aren't seeing the extremely obvious connection.

Yes, that's correct. If you became the "state of the art developer of true sandbox" while the entire world was hungry as fuck for more of it and you go bankrupt after not delivering that, it's not because of the huge success you had with the sandbox thing. It's because you fucked up afterwards and put your resources into new projects with little demand, neglecting the thing everybody liked, not updating it, and waiting until it just died a death of age.

They eventually came up with their openworld-exploration game "Room Girl" in 2022 nobody had been waiting for, so they flushed all their money down the toilet.

Everybody had been waiting for Honey Select 3 with updated graphics, assets, animations and features.

 

[Nihil5320]

So suddenly, after learning that there's actually a high demand for games made with Illusion assets, you entirely change the narrative and speak about the revenue made with selling assets for that one single game.

You couldn't defeat the argument by proving that nobody wants to buy games made with Illusion, so you desperately grab the next thing you can cling to and try to defeat it over pointing at the allegedly small revenue.

Congratulations - this is the core definition of moving the goalposts.

Dude I literally said in my very next sentence that it was irrelevant, you've just been cutting it out of your replies. I've bolded it below for you though since you're struggling:

That's a good point, to be clear my closing comment was in reference to your opinion deviating from the norm in this thread. As in you're one of a minority pushing for this particular title to abandon development of its core gameplay loop. I have no idea how many or what percentage of users actually buy or pirate those crappy VNs.

Bit of a moot point in this context mind you as users buying/pirating VNs built with a games assets doesn't translate to sales for that game, and marketing to VN creators gives you a significantly smaller target market. It's also extremely unlikely that you're going to convince this developer to completely change direction this late in the project lifecycle, you're essentially howling into the void asking the developer to drop major features that a large number of their users specifically paid for.

I'm not sure how you've misinterpreted that as me desperately wanting some kind of sales estimate for low quality VNs. Restating my position because you didn't comprehend it in the first, second or third instances isn't moving the goalposts.

This entire discussion is essentially us pointing out why your proposal is questionable from a business perspective and you responding with unrelated nonsense discussing points that don't matter whilst ignoring the glaring issue highlighted in the above.

 

[Fuchsschweif]

Dude I literally said in my very next sentence that it was irrelevant

It doesn't become irrelevant just because you say so. You made the argument in the first place. Suddenly it becomes irrelevant because you don't like how it played out.

I'm not sure how you've misinterpreted that as me desperately wanting some kind of sales estimate for low quality VNs. Restating my position because you didn't comprehend it in the first, second or third instances isn't moving the goalposts.

It is.

An honest person would've said: "Oh wow, that's actually a lot of people buying those VNs I thought would be crappy - despite never having played one myself! Thanks for the info."

But you were so focused on remaining right that you just jumped to the next point in order to defeat it, which is the sale revenue.

"Oh lol one sale! Woooow! Big money!".

And now you're here, in all seriousness, saying this:

I'm not sure how you've misinterpreted that as me desperately wanting some kind of sales estimate for low quality VNs.

Yeah, I wonder too how I came to that conclusion! Must be my reading comprehension, not you literally saying it.

This entire discussion is essentially us pointing out why your proposal is questionable from a business perspective

Ah, yeah, brings us back to this point:

To sum it up:

- You never used Studio once, so you don't really know what it is capable of
- You never played a single VN made with Illusion, so you don't know how popular this way of developing games is, nor how well it's being perceived by the NSFW community or what the quality can look like with a few mods

So why exactly are we having a conversation where you're trying to educate me or people in this thread about the possibilities of such a business model?

I'm on the other hand making a living from selling assets on marketplaces for digital media, including games. So I have a pretty good understanding of the customer base, the number of people buying assets and how profitable a marketplace can be.

Even if you're not someone like me you just need to take a look at other player in this industry like VAM, with their 16k+ Patreons and paid marketplace to understand the potential of the business model.

But thanks for your input based on your fantasy.

 

[Purple_Heart]

I'm on the other hand making a living from selling assets on marketplaces for digital media, including games. So I have a pretty good understanding of the customer base, the kind of people buying assets and how profitable a marketplace can be.

Oooh now it all makes sense. You just want to sell shit to people, that's why you have been pushing this "people want moar sandbox" agenda all along. It has nothing to do with what people want to play or what would be better for developers, you just want to sell them your "assets"

 

[Fuchsschweif]

Oooh now it all makes sense. You just want to sell shit to people, that's why you have been pushing this "people want moar sandbox" agenda all along. It has nothing to do with what people want to play or what would be better for developers, you just want to sell them your "assets"

Nice try (pathetic, actually), but I'm not in the NSFW industry, so no.

 

[Purple_Heart]

Nice try (pathetic, actually), but I'm not in the NSFW industry, so no.

Who said anything about nsfw stuff