Master of Puppets

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Oct 5, 2017
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You know what I find funny is that everyone is upset that the MC got arrested in the last update, but I don't remember that happening. I did see him handcuffed and taken to prison, but I never saw him get officially arrested. Sure he is in a jail cell, but there are no charges brought up against him, he was never given his Maranda rights (I know that is not required until your are being placed under arrest which can be delayed by I think 24-48 hours), and he was never offered a phone call. He was told he is being held for questioning and that is it.
In the United States, he is under arrest regardless of if the cops said the word "arrest" or not. Also Miranda rights being required to be read to arrest someone is a myth, they have to tell you those before interrogation. Usually they are read at the time of arrest because anything you say before they do so can't be used in court, and they want to be able to do so. It isn't a legal requirement though, just a procedural norm.
 
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Reniere

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2019
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In the United States, he is under arrest regardless of if the cops said the word "arrest" or not. Also Miranda rights being required to be read to arrest someone is a myth, they have to tell you those before interrogation. Usually they are read at the time of arrest because anything you say before they do so can't be used in court, and they want to be able to do so. It isn't a legal requirement though, just a procedural norm.
I know a cop who wishes that the reading your rights was a myth since that would had put me in jail. But since he didn't and another officer said he didn't, the lawyer used that against him as violating my rights. Now that happened in Florida so either in your side of the states it's normal for your rights not be read to you. I feel bad for the people who get arrested.
 

ImperialD

Devoted Member
Oct 24, 2019
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Most people think they are arrested when a police officer says “You Are Under Arrest” or puts you in the back of the police car. This is incorrect. An arrest is the act of legal authority taking actual physical custody of a citizen thus causing a restraint on that citizen’s liberty. An arrest occurs when there is a submission to authority causing a seizure of your person.
The standard to be considered and understood is the “free to leave” standard. Whether the suspect was free to leave – therefore making the police encounter consensual and not an arrest. What is difficult to understand is the interplay between a stop, detention, and arrest. Understand that an arrest is more than a stop. It is more than a detention. Further, mere contact, interaction or discussion with the police is not necessarily an arrest.
Also note that the infamous constitutional rights of Miranda do not apply until after you are placed under arrest. This is an important issue to discuss with your attorney, to make sure your attorney’s arsenal is full before approaching arguments with the prosecutor and court.

Without a Miranda warning or a valid waiver of the Miranda rights, statements made may be inadmissible at under the , which prevents a party from using at trial which had been gathered in violation of the
 
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moskyx

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Jun 17, 2019
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Fun (off topic) fact: there was a Spanish band called Miranda Warning. Obviously they took the name from that US term

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DA22

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Jan 10, 2018
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I just want to point out that SYG laws typically require that you return only equal amounts of force and last i checked a Hummer is 3tons and generates more force even at 5mph than a MLB player swinging a bat which Ryker most certainly isnt.

There's no justifiable use of force for vehicular assault that's why it has it's own crime statute.
Yeah but there the fact Wendy is a small woman that is up against big males with bats comes in. She can not be expected to stop it with her hands or words. Besides not sure how the rules in US are but over here in Europe we also have something for an over use of violence in case someone is really threatened as a ground for not being culpable. Think in English it is called Excessive self defence but in Dutch it is called "noodweer excess". Basically it comes down to that someone in the act of being threatened comes into a mental state where the fact (s)he uses normally inexplainable excessive violence can not be held against them in a criminal way. (For this last you do need a good psychologist report and may lead to a recommendation for some serious therapy though that you would have to follow and someone might even be locked away for therapy reasons if the judge in question would be very afraid you might regularly get into that mental state to easily.)

So her using a car in an assault that might well turn out deathly to her Son or she could think can be deathly to her son, probably would fall under the Stand your ground rules or have a excessive self defense claim to take away the culpability of the act.
 
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Krynh

Engaged Member
Jan 20, 2020
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The Willow scene was spoiled when Mom came into the room with a bloody nose.
And I believe that is the last time he saw Willow and his Mom.
That wasn't the heartwarming willow scene though, I thought it was when he picks her up and tickles her and then picks jamie up as well.

I agree with qwsl, there's no need to create two sets of inline spoiler. Spoiler the whole paragraph yes, but don't then put an extra inline for the characters name as well.
 

csmk14

Active Member
Mar 12, 2020
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That's absolutely true, by day 5 I've already lost all my hopes on this game being the game I was expecting and I guess this guy reached his limit in this update. But one thing is certain: this is BD's way from the beginning. He has not lost his way, he's just going on further on it. You can feel dissapointed by the game not living to YOUR expectations (I do) but the trend is clear since the day MC first arrives at WVM. So we can just quit or try to enjoy what he's offering to us.

And LocoGringo78, no, running a car over people who are not attacking you nor other people at that moment (they were just approaching MC but not beating him to dead IN THAT VERY MOMENT), hardly falls under those circumstances you alledged. Why she isn't arrested yet is one of the points BD would have to explain quite well in next updates. My wild guess is that she will be arrested once Ryker and the other guys explain their version to the police, thus leading to another hurtful breakup moment in which now the mom is taken away from her son, just as her son was taken away from her when he was a child.
First of all it's a small woman doing what she can to defend her son who has been beaten badly, been told he's going to be taken against his will(Kidnapped) by 4larger than her by far men with a wpn who have also threatened to kidnap a young woman who lives with her son, beat senseless another couple people threatened harm to many more all while still posing a threat to her son ATM, I'd say justified!
 

csmk14

Active Member
Mar 12, 2020
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Yeah but there the fact Wendy is a small woman that is up against big males with bats comes in. She can not be expected to stop it with her hands or words. Besides not sure how the rules in US are but over here in Europe we also have something for an over use of violence in case someone is really threatened as a ground for not being culpable. Think in English it is called Excessive self defence but in Dutch it is called "noodweer excess". Basically it comes down that someone in the act of being threathened comes into a mental state where the fact (s)he uses violence can not be held against them in a criminal way.

So her using a car in an assault that might well turn out deathly to her Son, probably would fall under the Stand your ground rules or have a excessive self defense claim to take away the culpabillty of the act.
You beat me too it. lol
 
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moskyx

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Jun 17, 2019
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First of all it's a small woman doing what she can to defend her son who has been beaten badly, been told he's going to be taken against his will(Kidnapped) by 4larger than her by far men with a wpn who have also threatened to kidnap a young woman who lives with her son, beat senseless another couple people threatened harm to many more all while still posing a threat to her son ATM, I'd say justified!
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ZTex

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Apr 3, 2019
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Yeah but there the fact Wendy is a small woman that is up against big males with bats comes in. She can not be expected to stop it with her hands or words. Besides not sure how the rules in US are but over here in Europe we also have something for an over use of violence in case someone is really threatened as a ground for not being culpable. Think in English it is called Excessive self defence but in Dutch it is called "noodweer excess". Basically it comes down to that someone in the act of being threatened comes into a mental state where the fact (s)he uses normally inexplainable excessive violence can not be held against them in a criminal way.

So her using a car in an assault that might well turn out deathly to her Son or she could think can be deathly to her son, probably would fall under the Stand your ground rules or have a excessive self defense claim to take away the culpability of the act.
I don't know enough about European laws to argue for or against what you're saying. However, the US has set legal standards where laws like aggravated battery require specific intent. Part of specific intent is the mental status. This is why i was saying you cannot charge Ryker for it. However, with Wendy in the US you absolutely can prove specific intent even if it's an affirmative defense. She knew (as most people do) that driving a car into a pedestrian would cause harm. She may not have known the extent but that's a matter for how she's charged to settle. That said we do have clauses that cover extreme duress but that wouldn't be enough to void the charges in question but it might be enough to sway a jury. The key part there is it would have to go to the Jury first which means that Wendy would be arrested and charged. That is of course all contigent upon the game world following real world laws and procedures all of which right now is a bit iffy.
 
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ZTex

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Apr 3, 2019
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First of all it's a small woman doing what she can to defend her son who has been beaten badly, been told he's going to be taken against his will(Kidnapped) by 4larger than her by far men with a wpn who have also threatened to kidnap a young woman who lives with her son, beat senseless another couple people threatened harm to many more all while still posing a threat to her son ATM, I'd say justified!
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DA22

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That is true and it should as far as I know be the job of the DA office first to decide if they would want to prosecute her or not based on the facts and likelihood of a conviction. Besides there is a reason why cases like this are very individual, because the circumstances are very individual and details can make a big difference. If Wendy was a 7ft tall guy with a black belt in a martial arts discipline or an ex special ops the outcome might well be very different and what would be expected of her in a situation like that.

Actually even the fact she was a victim of physical abuse in past could well come to play a role in a case like this.
 
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csmk14

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That's them not me, I was giving reasons for Wendy's which included stopping the group from kidnapping her son! My post had zero to do with Damien, he was gone, the 4 in question are Ryker, Kenji, Gorg and that cheapshot bouncer that tried to frisk Azel!
 

ZTex

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Apr 3, 2019
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That's them not me, I was giving reasons for Wendy's which included stopping the group from kidnapping her son! My post had zero to do with Damien, he was gone, the 4 in question are Ryker, Kenji, Gorg and that cheapshot bouncer that tried to frisk Azel!
That's fair. Though...
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