VN Ren'Py Yesterday's Crossroads [Ch.3 v0.4.0a] [CHAQUINN0]

[Quetzzz]

Perhaps things change after the point I quit (basically after ex gf coffee scene) but at this point Zeke has not doing anything nor have there been any hints that he is anything other than a normal guy? Where on the other hand Keyla is confirmed liar (lie by omission to MC), and cheater (MC) as well as the one who seems to be "trying less"/"messing up the relationship" (when Zeke comments about the electrically bill in any way she is innately primed for it to turn into a verbal argument) and then you top that off with the only information about her and zeke getting together being "she wanted to say no but then said yes"..... (the years in between saying yes and the current game time are ignored i guess? )

Sorry for the spoiler!
Shortly after the point where you stopped, if you're on Lydia's track, you would've learned about some of Zeke's flaws.
I agree with most about what you said later, about Zeke being demonized to make Leyla more appealing, and to balance what Leyla and the MC did to him. One caveat though: Zeke and Keyla aren't staying married.

oh and to be "helpful" transtions in the early game would for sure help.... dev dont even need new scenes just an extra line or two before fading to black or a line during the black screen saying x time has past or Xday (like it does for the year long skip) would help quite a bit without being much more work (every negative review mentions the transitions)

Yeah, I 100% agree with this. The flow of time is extremely hard to follow, with sometimes days or weeks passing without any indication. Having a notification of when a scene is happening (Mythos does this to great effect), or an expositional frame would be great.

Yeah, i just don't get that choice...like no one in their right mind would say yes to that proposal, no matter how desperate Zeke was (for what ever mysterious reason), or you don't want to hurt him.
That was just a moment i thought, you know, you really deserve a darwin award (or at least Zeke)...even if they were young and stupid, this is just too stupid from Keyla...

Keyla tried to frame keeping it a secret, and not breaking up with Zeke, as not wanting to ruin the relationship between Zeke and the MC. But normally, this is a realization she'd have made after cheating on Zeke for the 1st time. She was selfish enough to keep cheating, but then too much of a coward to actually break up with him and have an actual relationship with MC. She wasn't wrong, their friendship would've been ruined, but seeing how the MC knew nothing about Zeke's skirt-chasing in college, I wonder how deep their friendship actually was.

So while we do not know which girls are willing to be in the MC's 'harem' or share him, it appears there are several that are confirmed mutually exclusive and according to dev's own words, it's a safe bet none of the main LIs MC works with will be happy or ok he is dating them simultaneously. While possible. it is heavily discouraged since it most certainly will not end well.

Some context from the game's code:

# Routes/Paths (MAIN LI)
default kim_route = False # LOCKS CANDACE
default julia_route = False # LOCKS CANDACE / OLIVIA
default olivia_route = False # LOCKS JULIA
default michelle_route = False # LOCKS ALESSA
default vera_route = False

# Routes/Paths (SECONDARY LI)
default keyla_route = False # "Default Route" (only active if no other girl is active / MC solo run ending)
default kimmy_route = False
default candace_route = False # locked if JULIA / KIM
default alessa_route = False # LOCKS MICHELLE (Vera included)

 

[Simpgor]

Sorry for the spoiler!
Shortly after the point where you stopped, if you're on Lydia's track, you would've learned about some of Zeke's flaws.
I agree with most about what you said later, about Zeke being demonized to make Leyla more appealing, and to balance what Leyla and the MC did to him. One caveat though: Zeke and Keyla aren't staying married.



Yeah, I 100% agree with this. The flow of time is extremely hard to follow, with sometimes days or weeks passing without any indication. Having a notification of when a scene is happening (Mythos does this to great effect), or an expositional frame would be great.


Keyla tried to frame keeping it a secret, and not breaking up with Zeke, as not wanting to ruin the relationship between Zeke and the MC. But normally, this is a realization she'd have made after cheating on Zeke for the 1st time. She was selfish enough to keep cheating, but then too much of a coward to actually break up with him and have an actual relationship with MC. She wasn't wrong, their friendship would've been ruined, but seeing how the MC knew nothing about Zeke's skirt-chasing in college, I wonder how deep their friendship actually was.


Some context from the game's code:

# Routes/Paths (MAIN LI)
default kim_route = False # LOCKS CANDACE
default julia_route = False # LOCKS CANDACE / OLIVIA
default olivia_route = False # LOCKS JULIA
default michelle_route = False # LOCKS ALESSA
default vera_route = False

# Routes/Paths (SECONDARY LI)
default keyla_route = False # "Default Route" (only active if no other girl is active / MC solo run ending)
default kimmy_route = False
default candace_route = False # locked if JULIA / KIM
default alessa_route = False # LOCKS MICHELLE (Vera included)

No need to worry about the spoiler as I didn't have plans to continue playing. I assumed they wouldn't be staying married (needs to be single for harem/her ending) but that doesn't change the fact that all of her/zeke/MC stupidity is all during their (indeterminate amount of time) marriage. As I said where I was there is absolutely 0 hints about Zeke being a serial cheater (even people who think this game is perfect can't provide an early hint of it) so the question is are MC and Zeke not really that good of friends (despite zeke/mc/narration all saying they were) or is it because the zeke cheating wasn't written into the story at that point?

The idea that Keyla knew he was a serial cheater and still "ACCIDENTALLY SAID YES" is honestly even further beyond believe. Like how the fuck is anybody justifying that as realistic or someone deserving of sympathy? (Beyond the fact that she has tits and coomers need to coom)

 

[alive89]

No need to worry about the spoiler as I didn't have plans to continue playing. I assumed they wouldn't be staying married (needs to be single for harem/her ending) but that doesn't change the fact that all of her/zeke/MC stupidity is all during their (indeterminate amount of time) marriage. As I said where I was there is absolutely 0 hints about Zeke being a serial cheater (even people who think this game is perfect can't provide an early hint of it) so the question is are MC and Zeke not really that good of friends (despite zeke/mc/narration all saying they were) or is it because the zeke cheating wasn't written into the story at that point?

The idea that Keyla knew he was a serial cheater and still "ACCIDENTALLY SAID YES" is honestly even further beyond believe. Like how the fuck is anybody justifying that as realistic or someone deserving of sympathy? (Beyond the fact that she has tits and coomers need to coom)

The fact that you haven't even played and is still talking shit here says a lot lol

 

[Simpgor]

The fact that you haven't even played and is still talking shit here says a lot lol

You are aware that you can report my posts I've you believe I'm breaking any rules correct? Did the recently add one where only people who have played 100% of content can post? No wonder the mods are so overworked they have to verify every person's completion percentage in every game


Edit: Another case when the DEV THEMSELVES admit their story isn't perfect and the "fans" continue to screech at anybody claiming the same

 

[Raziel_8]

Keyla tried to frame keeping it a secret, and not breaking up with Zeke, as not wanting to ruin the relationship between Zeke and the MC. But normally, this is a realization she'd have made after cheating on Zeke for the 1st time. She was selfish enough to keep cheating, but then too much of a coward to actually break up with him and have an actual relationship with MC. She wasn't wrong, their friendship would've been ruined, but seeing how the MC knew nothing about Zeke's skirt-chasing in college, I wonder how deep their friendship actually was.

I mean, i find it already dumb that she was going into a relationship at the begining of college, from what she said what she had with Zeke before was just some fun, nothing serious.
And yeah that is something you should notice the first time you cheat...

But what i meant was, i really don't get why she married him.
At that point the affair with the MC was over for months, or years, as she was too much of a coward to break up...i mean, you could have just broken up and keep the relationship with the MC secret...like you know, their affair...or just waited some months after the break up until they get together.
If Zeke had a problem at that point it is really his problem, but he was busy with going through the entire sorority either way...
But at the point from the proposal the MC was with Kim either way...so yeah, she didn't want to ruin their relationship, ok...but why in gods name would she even considere marry Zeke...with all what has happened and she knows, like his cheating, no feelings etc, like just break up...he suprised me and was desperate doesn't really cut it with how fucked up their entire relationship was up to that point.

Yeah, Zeke doesn't seem all that close a friend as the MC thought...or still isn't imo.

 

[Quetzzz]

or is it because the zeke cheating wasn't written into the story at that point?

This would be my guess, at least for what happened during the college years.
I think Zeke cheating on Leyla in the present was planned, and a symptom of Leyla having mentally stepped out of the marriage after Kim left.

The idea that Keyla knew he was a serial cheater and still "ACCIDENTALLY SAID YES" is honestly even further beyond believe. Like how the fuck is anybody justifying that as realistic or someone deserving of sympathy? (Beyond the fact that she has tits and coomers need to coom)

Right, but at this point MC is already with Kim. So if she had broken up with Zeke, Leyla would've been alone. When we drill down to it, her staying with Zeke was out of convenience, not love or loyalty.

 

[Simpgor]

This would be my guess, at least for what happened during the college years.
I think Zeke cheating on Leyla in the present was planned, and a symptom of Leyla having mentally stepped out of the marriage after Kim left.


Right, but at this point MC is already with Kim. So if she had broken up with Zeke, Leyla would've been alone. When we drill down to it, her staying with Zeke was out of convenience, not love or loyalty.

Could you provide any hints the early game drops about his current day cheating? I was just think there would have been several "easy" ways to show it without telling the audience (for that sweet sweet dramatic tension) like showing a girl walking away from him when MC goes to the gym with him, or him looking away (at a girl) while talking to the MC, or when he is telling MC to finally get out there and stuff (move on from ex) make any reference to the fact that he could help MC either by going out as a bro (wouldn't even need to confirm he's cheating) or just saying "hey I know this girl and she's down to clown"?

I guess you could take Keyla saying they aren't fucking much as "he's not horny because he's cheating on her".... I guess anytime he wants to fuck he has another member of his harem? Enough to last at least a year? Like seriously he never got horny while she was available?

Nah sorry to "shit" on the dev but I have serious doubts that the prolouge/chapter 1 were written with zeke being some NTR protag level of cheater (or the dev was just really really really really bad at conveying it early on)

 

[Quetzzz]

But what i meant was, i really don't get why she married him.

Her first mistake, apart from the cheating, was not breaking up with Zeke immediately. That's the part I find hard to digest; this woman, who's so in love with the MC still chose Zeke over him.

But at the point from the proposal the MC was with Kim either way...so yeah, she didn't want to ruin their relationship, ok...but why in gods name would she even considere marry Zeke...with all what has happened and she knows, like his cheating, no feelings etc, like just break up...he suprised me and was desperate doesn't really cut it with how fucked up their entire relationship was up to that point.

Yeah, no matter how it's framed, I can't wrap my head around why a self-respecting young woman would go down this route. So, the only reasoning I can think of, is that we're not talking about a self-respecing woman. Instead, she's now rationalizing her own dumb decisions, trying to make herself look good and self-sacrificing, while in reality she was scared to be alone.

 

[Quetzzz]

Could you provide any hints the early game drops about his current day cheating? I was just think there would have been several "easy" ways to show it without telling the audience (for that sweet sweet dramatic tension) like showing a girl walking away from him when MC goes to the gym with him, or him looking away (at a girl) while talking to the MC, or when he is telling MC to finally get out there and stuff (move on from ex) make any reference to the fact that he could help MC either by going out as a bro (wouldn't even need to confirm he's cheating) or just saying "hey I know this girl and she's down to clown"?

There's a scene early on where MC and Michelle are talking outside of the gym. Zeke gets a message and hurries off. Michelle asks the MC if he knows what that was about, but he says he doesn't know anything.
Later (episode 2, I think), on Lydia's track, they go out and meet Myriam's (new?) lover, Zeke.

 

[Maviarab]

or him looking away (at a girl) while talking to the MC,

That does happen in the gym/right after IIRC. It was pretty obious to me (and when you first meet Kimberley) that he a playa.

 

[Simpgor]

There's a scene early on where MC and Michelle are talking outside of the gym. Zeke gets a message and hurries off. Michelle asks the MC if he knows what that was about, but he says he doesn't know anything.
Later (episode 2, I think), on Lydia's track, they go out and meet Myriam's (new?) lover, Zeke.

I wouldn't consider that "early" on but I should have made clear I meant in the game's timeine not so much in amount reading before (before/during the year long skip). As you said in your other post everything about Keyla screams that she is hardcore trying to justify her mistakes the issue (for me) came from the rest of the VN trying to justify her as wel even to the point that I read too (which is before zeke becomes ntr man in some college game)

That does happen in the gym/right after IIRC. It was pretty obious to me (and when you first meet Kimberley) that he a playa.

I might have forgotten already but was that when the LI (whose name escapes me) and Sophia(?) Meet and talk with MC at the gym for the first time?

 

[Crimsonfiend76]

While there are many examples of how much of a shit person Keyla is and her decision-making process... we've been promised from the dev there is serious trauma or issues in her past that caused her to behave like she did.... What I can't understand is why Zeke, who never met a girl he didnt want to fuck would be this bad of a serial cheater, and still want to propose to Keyla, right when he sensed she was over their relationship and wanted to break up with him the first time.

We are shown in the Julia path that eventually Zeke is shown as Julia's best friend/roommate's new boyfriend and they've been dating for months! I get to a certain extent of hooking up with any girl willing to let him stick it in her, but I can't get why Zeke would want to remain married to Keyla if he was already so far gone and no longer invested in his own marriage as to continue a semi-serious relationship with one girl in particular? You'd think by that point either he would have asked Keyla for a divorce/separation... or at the very least confided in his 'best friend' the MC about what he was doing and maybe get some advice on what he should do... or at the minimum ask if his bestie could run interference for him with Keyla while getting their stories straight should she ever get suspicious.

 

[Maviarab]

I might have forgotten already but was that when the LI (whose name escapes me) and Sophia(?) Meet and talk with MC at the gym for the first time?

Yeah I think that's the one. (Also been a while since I went through from the start).

 

[Raziel_8]

While there are many examples of how much of a shit person Keyla is and her decision-making process... we've been promised from the dev there is serious trauma or issues in her past that caused her to behave like she did.... What I can't understand is why Zeke, who never met a girl he didnt want to fuck would be this bad of a serial cheater, and still want to propose to Keyla, right when he sensed she was over their relationship and wanted to break up with him the first time.

Yeah, hard to believe that Zeke was in love with Keyla at any point, certainly not by the time he was fucking the entire sorority.
The only reason i can think of is either he didn't want to lose her to the MC, maybe jealousy or just out of spite, or for what ever reason.
Or it is that mystery of why he was so desperate...either way, i don't think it will show Zeke in a better light, probably just makes him worse than he already is.

We are shown in the Julia path that eventually Zeke is shown as Julia's best friend/roommate's new boyfriend and they've been dating for months! I get to a certain extent of hooking up with any girl willing to let him stick it in her, but I can't get why Zeke would want to remain married to Keyla if he was already so far gone and no longer invested in his own marriage as to continue a semi-serious relationship with one girl in particular? You'd think by that point either he would have asked Keyla for a divorce/separation... or at the very least confided in his 'best friend' the MC about what he was doing and maybe get some advice on what he should do... or at the minimum ask if his bestie could run interference for him with Keyla while getting their stories straight should she ever get suspicious.

Yeah, i find it really hard to see Zeke as the best friend, or even a good one, with all the shit he keeps secret.

Their relationship was never a good one, so beside the point of why even propose, why endure this for years... it's pretty clear Keyla had zero interest or feelings for him and lets be honest he can't be that dumb and not notice that. And from their backstory i doubt Zeke was much more invested then her, if he ever loved her.

 

[ImSenjou]

This information that Zeke was sleeping with the entire sorority, and the MC knew nothing about it, only made me believe that they were never really friends, which was strange since they were supposedly childhood friends, studied at the same place, and saw each other all the time.

There are several signs that Zeke knew, or at least suspected, about Keyla and the MC, especially her interest and how she looked at the MC.
(I'm going to assume he was talking about Keyla, in this scene.)


Regarding the negative points we can accumulate with Zeke, I believe it will serve more for Zeke to antagonize the MC than for the MC to antagonize Zeke. The MC has no moral ground to comment on or judge Zeke's actions, since he had an affair with Zeke's girlfriend for months. Zeke already suspected it, but never said anything.

As for Keyla accepting to marry Zeke, it's really hard to believe that someone would do so, but if we are to force an excuse, we can consider that she intended to stay in the MC's life, even if only as a friend, and perhaps with a chance of an affair. If she had refused Zeke and the MC ended up with Kim, she probably couldn't stay around. It's a weak excuse, but it's what I can think of at the moment.

Zeke staying married to Keyla all this time also makes no sense. Was he afraid that Keyla and the MC would leave him to be together?

 

[Quetzzz]

Or it is that mystery of why he was so desperate...either way, i don't think it will show Zeke in a better light, probably just makes him worse than he already is.

The only thing I can think of are external obligations. It doesn't really fit, but something like his parents pressuring him to be engaged after finishing college. He obviously had no shortage of women, though, so why Leyla? Or, did he sleep with the sorority to "sow his wild oats" before being forced into marriage and monogamy? Still, looking at the jobs he worked, I don't think family pressure is it. If marrying Leyla would've let him escape his family, then, as an adult, he could've escaped them without marrying her as well.

 

[micojive]

What a bummer .. that true protagonist movies like Top Gun or Indiana Jones or James Bond movies have girls thrown at them from every corner of the story and are still revered the world over for being their usual mysoginistic crude bullying assholes.
Player said:
I enjoy finding things out and not having girl spoon fed to me so she can open her legs and it all be nice and convenient.
Another player said:
I know I will miss out on characters/images if I don't pick certain choices or follow a certain path. That's just how it is.

Just from playing around with different paths, anyone can come out with the fair impression that:
this game is geared around the throuple of MC+Zeke+Kay+Kim - those are the guarding rails of the story.
We should follow that canon route first and then decide, along the way, if we want to start a new save when we choose to unbark this Bullet Train of a game and start dating some other girl - with all the added drama or happy times, only to then get back on the same bullet train and hope for the best at the next station.


When you make a convoluted intertwined game with a plot running away from MC every now and then, the feedback will be frustration and the feels of the players will spill in their reviews and in their comments, because just like food or night club or dating - especially a dating oriented game - the emotional overspill is the kind of rush most players are looking to get outta the game.

So far, the game was nice enough to unravel the obvious flaws of MC and of the various long time friends around him.

The problem I have with some of the characters is that we are playing a MC and making choices for him about characters with established relationships from the past. I dont just mean romantic I mean friend-like with Zeke.

Like as a player, Kim and Zeke have done nothing but show how untrustworthy and shitty friends / lovers they are but the character is supposed to have years of feelings and experiences to go off. Like for me, Kim relationship is just not salvageable, the little we know of her saw how she ditched the MC without talking with him even if it was "for his own good". And Zeke has just been a shitty friend, cheating on his wife who is also a good friend of yours and putting you in a terrible position.

That is what the player has seen, but the character has all this other stuff that we the player are just supposed to acknowledge and accept and use to make decisions. Like when the choices are pro zeke or anti zeke, the MC gets a label of +1 douche or something, when that really isnt the case. Zeke was a bad friend who made bad choices, calling them out on those isnt being a douche, its doing what someone SHOULD do in that situation.

Then right away in ch1 you are presented with a new girl to go after, and why wouldnt a player? Why would a player think well I better not be interested in the girl the game is clearly trying to set you up with because it will lock out the 2nd girl you see. To me those choices just dont make sense. The only way a player would know to do that is play the game until you are hours in to see you can no longer pursue one specific girl.

It just feels frustrating to play it like that. Like on my playthrough I was aiming for Kimmy, Michelle, and Olivia and nothing about any of the conversations the MC+girls had lead me to believe I couldnt pursue Olivia because of the choices with other girls. It wasnt until I hit the endscreen and saw all 3 had scenes that I missed.

 

[micojive]

• Some general narrative cleanup. I can understand why some players aren't sure if this is a harem game or not, because the MC gets distracted by every new woman who enters his vicinity. Sure, after he made a choice to go on a date with someone, he'll remark about already dating someone else. Instead, the MC could have a telegraphing thought, giving a bit of context to players about how the game (or the LI he's dating) treats relationships and intimacy.

I really agree with the last point here. The game for the first 3 chapters is basically just jump cut after jump cut bouncing from girl to different girl, and there really isnt any indication on what girls lead to where and why some are locked out and others not. There were only 2 times I ever felt "punished' for just saying yes to everything was at the art gallery when Olivia locks you out of her path, because at no point in the story did it ever feel like agreeing to something with a girl would make you miss other things. The second time was after I finished my playthrough and saw I had so many missed replay scenes at the main menu. I was missing scenes from girls I was specifically targeting even, and that doesnt really feel good.

 

[erkper]

What? You've never heard the story of The Sword In The Firepit?

Oh, wait... maybe it was a stone...

Well shit, does this mean I need to rename MC to "Arthur"?

 

[DaffyDuck_Wiz]

This information that Zeke was sleeping with the entire sorority, and the MC knew nothing about it, only made me believe that they were never really friends, which was strange since they were supposedly childhood friends, studied at the same place, and saw each other all the time.

There are several signs that Zeke knew, or at least suspected, about Keyla and the MC, especially her interest and how she looked at the MC.
(I'm going to assume he was talking about Keyla, in this scene.)
View attachment 3854792 View attachment 3854793

Regarding the negative points we can accumulate with Zeke, I believe it will serve more for Zeke to antagonize the MC than for the MC to antagonize Zeke. The MC has no moral ground to comment on or judge Zeke's actions, since he had an affair with Zeke's girlfriend for months. Zeke already suspected it, but never said anything.

As for Keyla accepting to marry Zeke, it's really hard to believe that someone would do so, but if we are to force an excuse, we can consider that she intended to stay in the MC's life, even if only as a friend, and perhaps with a chance of an affair. If she had refused Zeke and the MC ended up with Kim, she probably couldn't stay around. It's a weak excuse, but it's what I can think of at the moment.

Zeke staying married to Keyla all this time also makes no sense. Was he afraid that Keyla and the MC would leave him to be together?

Maybe Zeke is just jealous of MC and has a lot of competition behind certain friendships, for example, like my friend got that girl there, I'm going to get her too to show that I'm the best. It's not a true friendship but it happens a lot in real life.