VN Ren'Py Zero End [v0.2.5c] [Stolen Rose]

[Melody Is Dead]

Swansong was held to a draw by Caleb (if you play it right), the same Caleb who also beat Keira in a fight near the start. The same Caleb who isn't a hunter nor is he known for his combat prowess.

Swansong was pushed back, later knocked out, by Brandon before getting the call he accepted.

Keira should have, at the very least, been able to beat Caleb and be somewhat on par with Brandon considering she's been training her whole life.

Doesn't matter if she's stronger than Swansong if she isn't even stronger than at least one of the two very human members of the group.

Brandon did more before becoming a hunter than Keira has so far in the whole game.

Here's the thing, if you hid the dialogue and showed someone who hasn't played it everything that happens and then asked them to pick out the hunter of monsters, I can guarantee they would not pick Keira.

I can't claim to know what Rose is going for with her character, I can only go off what i've seen in the game and so far all i've seen is Keira lose every single fight she's been in whether it be against man or monster.

She even failed to kill Swansong while she was sleeping.

Now I adore Keira as a love interest and I think she's great at infiltration. That being said, she IS a shit hunter. By all rights, she should be dead, the only reason she isn't is because Swansong seems more interested in fucking with her. From Swansongs point of view, she isn't a threat at all, she's dealt with her casually by using her as a pawn to mess with Caleb.

With Rayne only being able to go Lilim if both halves are in sync, that leaves Brandon as the only reliable choice to take into a physical fight. Keira hasn't even been able to hold her own, she has very literally been beat to shit every single time.

We can keep arguing in circles but nothing is going to change my mind on Keira. She's a great character but she's also a shit hunter. The payoff needs to be huge because so far her hunting skills have been a massive disappointment.

Lets look at it another way. Caleb has been holding his own against people far, far more powerful than him by playing to his strengths. Keira has been dropped every single time she's had a fight because she has no strengths. Fighting is her one and only job and she is the weakest member of the group. If Rayne hadn't gone Lilim mode, they would not have survived. If Brandon and Caleb hadn't been able to hold their ground, she would not have survived.

She hasn't made it this far because of her own skill, she's made it this far because of everyone elses.

At the start she's all "I'mma gonna kill Swansong" and i'm all "you go girl, i'm rooting for ya". By the end she's still all "i'mma gonna kill Swansong" and by then i'm all "please stop, you're embarrassing yourself".

Love her character for the most part, she's one of my fave love interests ... still think she needs a career change. Probably an accountant or some shit. She heals quick, the dreaded papercuts wouldn't even phase her. As long as it doesn't involve fighting because there is only so much secondhand shame I can manage.

What are you talking about? Did you even read the text boxes. Caleb has been stalling for time. He had no chance against Swansong. Then he used the power given to Brandon when he received the call and redirected it to hit Swansong. Caleb's been all about wits and trickery. Until now he has not displayed any great power except for his knowledge. He has been borrowing or "stealing" it left and right. Caleb being able to hold his own against people way stronger is one of the appealing details of the story. It's super hard to write stuff like that without it coming of as plot armor.

He also has no chance against Keira UNLESS you pick Astarte as your divinity. He also acknowledges that he can not teach to Keira what he's been doing because Astarte has been guiding his movements.

Yeah... Brandon is strong. That's the one thing he's good at and he is always been portrayed as such. I don't understand why you have an issue with that.

 

[mahligl]

Caleb's been all about wits and trickery.

Repeatingly throughout the game, including I think three of four scenes when his internal monologue amounts to 'I'm fucked if they get what I'm doing now'. There are exceptions, like in one of the endings, but...

I admit that this game can be rather misty in its presentation, BUT this vampire-business never seemed strange to me. Is it because I've conditioned by the world of darkness, where, as a rule, they're superhumans, when compared to almost everyone, and Khabib Nurmagomedov will be OBLITERATED in five minutes by any gangrel? I think more or less the same is communicated in the game more than once, with Brandon not folding down immediately treated as a surprise to everyone.

More than that, it's mentioned that Keira is not a fighting type, but an infiltrator, who can, for instance, prepare and set the explosives in the building, but in the actual fight she is fucked.

Maybe she is not a good infiltrator as well, given that she's very reckless, but that's not the point right now.

 

[Avaron1974]

Yeah... Brandon is strong. That's the one thing he's good at and he is always been portrayed as such. I don't understand why you have an issue with that.

You seem to have missed my point about Brandon entirely.

My point is, he did far better against the Vampire than the person chosen and trained to kill them long before he accepted the call himself.

When he did accept the call, he put Swansong down in one kick, broke her shoulder and forced her to retreat.

You also missed my point about Caleb. He's managed to hold his own against everything far more powerful than him by playing to his strengths.

Neither Brandon nor Caleb have been trained to deal with anything they have been dealing with yet not only kept themselves alive but others around them.

Keira was chosen as a child, trained her whole life to kill monsters and has been beaten and almost killed every time she's been in a fight.

Without Caleb and Brandon, Keira would be dead. The only time she's been useful is when Caleb forced her out of the fight and made her invisible to steal a book.

Caleb saved Keira's life on a couple of occasions. Rayne was pushed into Lilim mode to save her life and Brandon accepted the call which saved her life.

Keira has failed on multiple occasions to do the only thing her job requires. Her entire purpose since childhood has been to hun and kill monsters and yet she's been saved on multiple occasions by people outside of that order who aren't trained to hunt and kill monsters.

Brandon accepted the call and did as his very first act the one thing the trained hunter could not do.

Not only that but Brandon went toe to toe briefly with the most powerful Vampire in existence and hurt her. Brandon, in his first day on the job, has done more than the one person that's trained for years.

My entire point has been Brandon and Caleb are good at what they do, Keira is not. Keira is only alive thanks to Brandon, Caleb and Rayne.

The conclusion of my point is Vampire Keira best be a huge improvement because hunter Keira was a huge disappointment.

More than that, it's mentioned that Keira is not a fighting type, but an infiltrator, who can, for instance, prepare and set the explosives in the building, but in the actual fight she is fucked.

Wrong.

Keira is a sword, the fighting type. Infiltration is one of her jobs.

Spoiler: case 1

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Spoiler: case 2

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Spoiler: case 3

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The fact she chose to specialise in infiltration doesn't stop the fact she is trained to hunt and kill monsters, that is her whole purpose. She received a divine calling to do that very job.

Lets not also forget she failed at infiltrating Swansongs dwelling and couldn't even get her while the Vamp was sleeping.

 

[mahligl]

Wrong

Thanks for that!

 

[c.mork]

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Hello!
It's been a while. The release came and went, things have settled down, and now I need to look to what will come next. And I'll get into that in a bit, but I wanna give an update on what's happening in my life before that. So, I started work and, while I'm really enjoying how things are going, I don't think I've been this overwhelmed in some time. It's probably not unusual--there's just so much to take in at the same time when you start. I've been so mentally exhausted this last week since I started that I can barely stay awake past 9. Where I'm getting with this is that, until I feel more confident that I can handle what I have to do at work, what I do on Zero End isn't going to be anything too much. But that does bring me to where we'll be heading:
What will come next is a series of shorter releases from the perspective of Keira, Marie, Rayne, Brandon, and Selena. I'm not sure about the order yet. I'll need to outline all of their stories before I can settle on an order. These will be the same day (Day 6) seen through different eyes and covering different perspectives, which will comprise the first part of Chapter 3. The second part will return to Caleb's perspective for Day 7. I realize this may be a controversial choice as some might not like a specific perspective among these, but it allows me to do some things that I otherwise could not + it'll shorten release intervals. Whether this choice proves to be a good one or not, we'll have to wait and see. The way I have it in my head, it will, but who knows.
Anyway, I'll slowly start outlining and planning content in the next few weeks and try to get chapter 2 onto Steam. In the meantime, I hope you have a wonderful time!
--SR

 

[Melody Is Dead]

Spoiler: For Avaron

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That's the last thing I will say on this. If that doesn't satisfy you, you'll have to bug Stolen_rose about it and get you information from the source. These are just my opinions.

 

[Avaron1974]

Spoiler: For Avaron

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That's the last thing I will say on this. If that doesn't satisfy you, you'll have to bug Stolen_rose about it and get you information from the source. These are just my opinions.

You seem to miss the point more with every post you make.

Not only that but you now feel the need to add in pathetic little passive aggressive insults. So I suppose i'll respond in like with your comment.....

2. You identify very strongly with Keira which is why you are upset that she is so weak. Just like her.

It is hilarious you missed the entire point of every post I make and somehow managed to pull me being upset from deep inside your arse.

As for being weak, i'm a 4 foot 8 girl with arms like wet noodles ..... of course i'm weak.

That being said, i've not missed the point of several posts and argued points completely opposite to what was being posted.

In order to save what little grasp of sanity I have left and ease the headache reading your posts has given me, i'mma gonna go ahead and pretend you don't exist and make my world a little brighter.

 

[Melody Is Dead]

View attachment 5009664

You seem to miss the point more with every post you make.

Not only that but you now feel the need to add in pathetic little passive aggressive insults. So I suppose i'll respond in like with your comment.....

2. You identify very strongly with Keira which is why you are upset that she is so weak. Just like her.

It is hilarious you missed the entire point of every post I make and somehow managed to pull me being upset from deep inside your arse.

As for being weak, i'm a 4 foot 8 girl with arms like wet noodles ..... of course i'm weak.

That being said, i've not missed the point of several posts and argued points completely opposite to what was being posted.

In order to save what little grasp of sanity I have left and ease the headache reading your posts has given me, i'mma gonna go ahead and pretend you don't exist and make my world a little brighter.

It's not an insult. It's the only way to interpret what you wrote OR you didn't read the story.
I get the exact same feeling when I read your post. You completely miss the point.

 

[Daermon420]

It's been a while since I played, was thinking of jumping back in with this update. Sounds like they've made Keira sorta like Worf from TNG? Talks himself up, seems like the warrior of the crew, but gets knocked out by the enemy of the week nearly every episode? That's both kind of hilarious and sad at the same time.

I can see why that'd have some people upset, especially if they like her as a character.

 

[Melody Is Dead]

It's been a while since I played, was thinking of jumping back in with this update. Sounds like they've made Keira sorta like Worf from TNG? Talks himself up, seems like the warrior of the crew, but gets knocked out by the enemy of the week nearly every episode? That's both kind of hilarious and sad at the same time.

I can see why that'd have some people upset, especially if they like her as a character.

I don't know TNG... but it's more like one character that beats her up and she is trying to get revenge... and she mostly doesn't like to talk about it.

She gets beat up though and I think she's a likeable character. That would definitely be upsetting if she's your favorite character, but it would also weaken her plot if she doesnt get beat up. The revenge factor doesn't really kick in as hard unless there is some antagonist that you can hate.

If she ever gets to have her revenge, she might not be that likeable anymore though.

 

[Bad Wolf]

Still having issues with


A little help would be great, Stolen_rose Thanks.

 

[Melody Is Dead]

i've got 1-2-4, could find 3 anywhere, i guess it depends on your LI choice

I think memory three is the one you get when you talk to the girl. If you talk to her last it doesn't look like it's part of the unlocked memories. Try unlocking memories in different orders and you will see that you didn't miss anything.

Like... talk to the girl first and you will be back in the free roam with memory 3 unlocked.

 

[Danv]

I think memory three is the one you get when you talk to the girl. If you talk to her last it doesn't look like it's part of the unlocked memories. Try unlocking memories in different orders and you will see that you didn't miss anything.

Like... talk to the girl first and you will be back in the free roam with memory 3 unlocked.

just tried it - actually it doesn't even matter
you will get everything no matter what, the only difference which first three will be displayed in a side window, getting all four (in any order) is what allows to progress further anyway, no missed content here

 

[Arachnox]

Did anyone else feel that Marie's decision to enact the 'Ritual of Ash' was extreme? She seemed to be incredibly selfish about her own needs. Not calling out for help. Not blaming Daniel, but focusing all her resentment on her 'lover'? How the hell can the victim forgive the culprit but blame the savior? (not even calling out his name during the traumatic event)

Then she erases the bond and joins a doomsday cult.

I just cannot wrap my head around how bizarre her characterization seems to be.

And as another commenter already stated, Caleb is a self-loathing guy with a martyr complex.

I was enjoying this VN till this recent update, but now I have to drop it. There is no sense getting worked up over badly written FICTIONAL characters (with strange reactions to trauma). Trying to relate to and make sense of this is a waste of time.

 

[Fairlight0306]

Did anyone else feel that Marie's decision to enact the 'Ritual of Ash' was extreme? She seemed to be incredibly selfish about her own needs. Not calling out for help. Not blaming Daniel, but focusing all her resentment on her 'lover'? How the hell can the victim forgive the culprit but blame the savior? (not even calling out his name during the traumatic event)

Then she erases the bond and joins a doomsday cult.

I just cannot wrap my head around how bizarre her characterization seems to be.

And as another commenter already stated, Caleb is a self-loathing guy with a martyr complex.

I was enjoying this VN till this recent update, but now I have to drop it. There is no sense getting worked up over badly written FICTIONAL characters (with strange reactions to trauma). Trying to relate to and make sense of this is a waste of time.

No,definitely you're not alone but expect a lecture about how perfect is Marie.

 

[Arachnox]

No,definitely you're not alone but expect a lecture about how perfect is Marie.

I really don't have the time or patience to deal with fans. In my opinion, Marie's character makes 'Zero' (heh) sense. It's as if the creator thought, "Hey! To create more drama, why don't I make Marie to be needlessly inconsistent and unrelatable?! That's sure to add a few more thousand lines of Caleb moaning and groaning about his life choices "

Ugh!

 

[Canto Forte]

The whole point is emotional heartache pushed her and MC into extremes, MC killed himself - the pills kicked in, only just that Lilith got MC found - Caleb thanks her for saving his life, but when he got under, he was sure he was gonna die - he had picked the place, the drugs, the alcohool - it was supposed to end right then and there.
Marie pushed everyone away and did not want to talk about it - but MC who was constantly pushing Daniel and Marie for a relationship despite him being whatever to her, Daniel being outright combative about it and Marie getting the shortest stick in the game. Daniel admitted to Caleb, this is how we know for sure, while dev left Marie out of it, no more victim bashing, but some players adore to eviscerate the victim in everything.
MC left Marie out of his selfish revenge arc, just like Keira leaves everyone out of her revenge boner, even if everyone is supporting her, she is mindlessly following her own scatterbrainagenda of how and why and when to get it.
Because MC was paralyzed in his room, in his bed, just like Marie was, with grief, anxiety, hopelessness and self loathing, the ceremony of ash was supposed to end all their suffering: she would not feel any resentment over Caleb - this worked on her - while Caleb somehow did not get the memo - even tho he was supportive of her every step of the way and performed it with her from a place of knowing full well what they were about to do - Caleb was not selfish and Marie was not selfish - they both performed it - it was supposed to erase all of their bad blood and give them a fresh start.

The fallback was brutal: MC felt even more guilted over his acts, removing the emotion of it only left the selfish deed with the only conclusion of wasting a very valid punching bag by tricking him into his own suicide which he does like a Auschwitz/Guantanamo/torture victim - concedes to the demands of the accuser and dissapears, literally dissapears, like it was shown in the game. That is not revenge - it never stuck as revenge - it was justice, cold, unsatisfying, dumb and worthless justice with literally no payback for MC or for anyone else. Daniel was not punished, he was guilt tripped into dissapearing - from MC who could have done something, anything in the immediate days or weeks or months - MC wallowed in his misery without making any steps to recover, until he found a way to trick Daniel and he ended up tricking himself out of any meaningful revenge or catarsis or closure or reparation.

Spoiler

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[Avaron1974]

No,definitely you're not alone but expect a lecture about how perfect is Marie.

She's an absolute lunatic. Anyone that finds that perfect has terrible judgement.

She was willing to destroy the one person that loved her and kill anyone for the most mundane reasons.

Shit, she had Landon kill a guy just to get a key to Caleb.

She has no actual allies, no one likes her and those working with her are doing so under duress and want her dead.

The only way to save her is to kill her.

 

[Canto Forte]

Enters MC who is seeing her everywhere and is telling everyone he knows her best and wants to know her story and see it through. This is the story. You do not like her - too bad - MC does and is sticking around till the end.

She's an absolute lunatic. Anyone that finds that perfect has terrible judgement.

 

[Arachnox]

"I forgive you"
"Don't touch me!"

One is said to the rapist, while the other is to the 'savior'. No friggin sense!

The ritual of ash STILL seems completely senseless, especially when they understood what it entailed. How can she be so broken up after the event when she seemed calm when it was happening??

"Lets nuke our bond using an immensely powerful ritual so that we can get over my current resentment towards my 'lover" It sounds so comically immature for someone who was one of the most powerful witches. No logical sense.

Past Marie makes zero sense!!