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Halfelf

Active Member
Nov 23, 2017
770
1,058
I just noticed that DS can't even keep the fucking versions straight. Either there was an incremental version update that was missed (I'm sure that's what it was) or he mislabeled the version as .2.10 in his post, but everywhere else it's .2.11. Now if we can just get an explanation what the hell the gorg/mynock/bantha tags in his release post means. Why are bantha top tier in this system? Is that the best idea he could come up with? Why not a system based on jarjars or midichlorians?

Ok i have harped on the guy about the bugs and other crap i dont agree with in this game. But you sir are just looking for bullshit to grip about. who cares what he names his tiers and the version number thing could just be a typo. If you want to complain about something at least do it about shit that matters like the bugs and the fact that it takes awhile to fix them. Geez

Edit: and yes i read your other post.
 
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gunderson

Member
Aug 17, 2016
357
628


Looking back at this post, it kinda amazes me how hard this smoke and mirrors bullshit has backfired on Darth Smut, because this does indeed seem like hard work. The models look great, there's a (relatively) robust game design in here somewhere, he makes a bunch of (often lengthy and not terribly-written) posts every few days, and I legitimately believe that he works hard on the game.

And yet, the sheer lack of transparency about anything he's doing in terms of the content of the game itself beyond the free publicly available version means it seems like he isn't doing anything at all. And not in a 'making a great game effortlessly' kinda way, but in a 'this game looks like vaporware and the higher tier patrons are probably getting scammed' kinda way, where the only current version most people can see looks like a barely-updated version of the initial demo from five months ago.

I believe Darth Smut that game development is hard. I wouldn't be surprised if he's made at least some progress in the higher-cost Patreon subscriptions. But...Jesus, 119 patrons after all this time? In a porn game about Star Wars? I realize that the mystery might be enough to entice a couple people into the higher tiers (although it probably also disappoints them when they don't get $45 worth of game for their money, given how early into development we still are. Here's a hint: when people actually know what they're paying for and donate extra simply because they believe in your cause, far fewer people get pissed off about it!) but wouldn't more content available to curious viewers be a better advertisement than the endless barrage of empty advertising and incremental, barely different version releases?
 

Darth Smut

Newbie
May 1, 2018
99
161
Thank you all for spending your valuable time in this thread and sending your feedback and suggestions.

I have read all of them and I will answer you here or in a PM as soon as I have some time to spare.

For those who have concerns or doubts about the contents of all the versions, you can check the changelogs in the OP. For non-public versions, you can check these posts in Patreon, where you will be able to read the full changelogs for Patreon Versions:
If you have urging topics or issues with the game, you can find me on this , or you can also send me a PM on F95zone.

May the Force be with you,

Darth Smut.
 
May 30, 2017
436
2,716
For those who have concerns or doubts about the contents of all the versions, you can check the changelogs in the OP. For non-public versions, you can check these posts in Patreon, where you will be able to read the full changelogs for Patreon Versions:
Those are not full changelogs. While you get a rough idea of what each major version contains, you have nothing for us to see what each subversion changes.
What is the difference between say 2.10 and 2.19?
Does that changelog refer to all content that is available right away, or content that will be available by 0.4.XXX for instance?

Also note that some of the changes are you having to undo things you wasted time on just to mess with people. Your save encryption idea was clearly a time sink for you that broke the game for your players. The only purpose was to try and stop people from 'cheating' to see the content without spending hours grinding.

Basically you were wasting time on DRM that broke the game for your paying customers, so that you could force people to grind - which would, in your mind, encourage them to pay you for cheats.

You also introduce fixes and quality of life improvements in higher tier versions that people in lower tier versions have been asking you for. Instead of making your game better for everyone, you choose to use bug reports from people here without actually giving those same free players the benefits.

And finally you are still introducing more randomness and barriers to progression even in the paid versions. Having a dude in 0.4 that stops you from seeing the emperor for no reason? Why? Adding randomness to the tributes which are the only guaranteed income players have? WHY?
 

Kaiww

Member
Jul 8, 2018
148
81
If i may add my five cents here....... (as always english is not my first language so my apologys upfront for butchering the language.)

as a long time Star Wars Fan (way over 20 years) i was really intrested in your game then i testet the version here.....and saw your patreon site.

Lets say you continue at the the same pace as we see in your updates untill now, wich is totally fine because its your time and nobody should rush you, but if it goes on like this the development will take, and i will take a low number here, two years........ 24x45 = 1080 $....... only to get always the newest version. Dont you think that is a bit over the Top ?

If sombody really thinks your game is worth that much, fine its his decision but with so many developers out there that give up after 6 Month your payment model smells like EA. I am sorry i do not mean to be offensiv but think about what you ask from people to get the newest version of a game with a max of 2 Hours playtime if we "include" the grinding.

I mean its your game man but if i see somthing like this everything inside me is screaming that sombody is trying to chash in as much as possibly before the players notice they getting fucked.

I have a liitle bit of experince with marketing........and never ever should you ask for much more than your Product is worth, because your intentions might be pure but nobody is believing you. Everybody will feel like you have some scam going.

It might be in your intreset to listen to some of the People that wrote before me and change your buisness modell.

with regards
Kai
 

rook

Newbie
Aug 9, 2016
59
103
Basically you were wasting time on DRM that broke the game for your paying customers, so that you could force people to grind - which would, in your mind, encourage them to pay you for cheats.
DRM is the sign of a dev that doesn't have faith in their product. For proof, CD Projekt RED hasn't put DRM in any of their games since about 6 months after the Witcher launched. They make some of the objectively best games ever and make a killing doing it.
 

Darth Smut

Newbie
May 1, 2018
99
161
DRM is the sign of a dev that doesn't have faith in their product. For proof, CD Projekt RED hasn't put DRM in any of their games since about 6 months after the Witcher launched. They make some of the objectively best games ever and make a killing doing it.
Death Star Trainer does not have DRM (Digital Rights Management), because I do not claim any Digital Right.

Also, isn't it a little weird that you use an example of a company, CD Project Red, who ended up using DRM? They even used other (time-consuming) tactics against people who tried to exploit bugs of their games, such as the glorious God/monster protector of the cows.

I have A LOT OF faith in my project, along with other hundreds of people who play, like and support me.

In fact, I believe that have YOU also have faith in this project. You and all the people who constantly come back to this thread and spread "incorrect or not contrasted" information, most of the times, based on their assumptions (because I promise you that I haven't had proper conversations with all those people who try to harm this project).

It is obvious that even the most critic people want this game to succeed.
They want it to succeed and play it so hard that they constantly come back, spending their valuable time playing it and writing posts. They are so eagger to get more, that they ask me to release newer updates, with more content, faster, etc...
They want it to succeed so hard... but only on their own terms, otherwise they will spread false information that will only harm the project.

I just want to be able to save my game.
@waveofpig I am sending you a PM to know your issue in detail.

still don't understand who in the right mind would play this and say its good


If i may add my five cents here....... (as always english is not my first language so my apologys upfront for butchering the language.) as a long time Star Wars Fan (way over 20 years) i was really intrested in your game then i testet the version here.....and saw your patreon site.
Thank you for your playing DST and for your five cents of respectful feedback.

I totally understand your perspective, but if you let me explain from my point of view those things you just said. Maybe this time people around here will understand me a bit more.

Lets say you continue at the the same pace as we see in your updates untill now, wich is totally fine because its your time and nobody should rush you, but if it goes on like this the development will take, and i will take a low number here, two years........ 24x45 = 1080 $....... only to get always the newest version. Dont you think that is a bit over the Top ?
Lets say you continue dowloading this game in f95zone for free (or $0), which is totally fine because it is your money and nobody is forcing you to spend it. You go on like this, and lets guess the development takes two years, as you said, to fully develop this game, and you keep playing it this way......... 24x$0= 0.000$....... only to get the same, but just some time later.
(I assume that you have have played it but not paid a penny because I do not recognize your name between my Patreons).

If sombody really thinks your game is worth that much, fine its his decision but with so many developers out there that give up after 6 Month your payment model smells like EA. I am sorry i do not mean to be offensiv but think about what you ask from people to get the newest version of a game with a max of 2 Hours playtime if we "include" the grinding.
If somebody thinks thinks DST is worth 0$, fine too, it is their decision.
I do not know what the other devs really do, because I have not had a proper conversation with them and neither I have spent the time to make a deep analysis of their patreon sites, but I like to think that most of us do more or less the same:
We release the game for free. We expect that just a tiny percentage of our public understand the complexities of creating "anything" in this world, and they will want to support the creator so we can keep doing it.
This is our "business model" (even if every game has its own unique features).

I mean its your game man but if i see somthing like this everything inside me is screaming that sombody is trying to chash in as much as possibly before the players notice they getting fucked.
I cannot judge the screams inside of you. They are never bron from whats in front of us, but from negative past experiences.
I could release free versions for two years in this forum, but if you decide to hear the screams inside your head instead of what you see, you will never stop believeing that you will get fucked in a possible future.
Fear may be useful sometimes, but it is an irrational thing only inside our minds, and it does not usually care for rational thoughts.

I have a liitle bit of experince with marketing........
I probably have less experience than you in marketing. Otherwise I would not have this "community" issues.

and never ever should you ask for much more than your Product is worth, because your intentions might be pure but nobody is believing you. Everybody will feel like you have some scam going.
Are you still trying not to be offensive here?
 

Darth Smut

Newbie
May 1, 2018
99
161
I have read again my last post and since it is Christmas, I do not want to leave this thread like this... There is something I want to add.

I do my best trying not to be rude. Like other people here, English is not my native language, and I may lack the words to express myself in a proper way. If I seem rude or a dick, it is not my intention. So please, do not be literal with my words, writing is not easy, much less in a foreing language.

I want to know you that I understand your dislikes about the game. But please, understand that I only want to create a enjoyable game and get people to support me (it should not be any crime in that). Understand that even if you may have good suggestions and ideas, and even if they may be better than mine, Death Star Trainer is my baby, and I also want to be able to build it the way I want.

If you do not like it, I will completely understand that you don't play it (less support it). Maybe the game is not for you. But maybe DST will be a game for other people.

However, there is a wave of hate against this project and me that it is beyond my comprehension. You draw me like some sort of devil, scammer and worse things that I am not. I may have made mistakes, but nothing justifies some of the attitudes and comments that I or this project are receiving.

Trying to make people turn their back on me does not help anyone. It will not help you to get what you want. It will not help me to create a better game. It will not motivate other people to create what you would like to play. The only thing that you will get you is a worse environment in this forum, instead of creating a place of tolerance, respect and creativity.

I also want to add a final conclusion to my previous message.

Some of you are constantly asking me to change my patreon tiers, release cheat versions, etc. I totally respect your suggestions, but starting a witch-hunt because they are not fulfilled is INSANE. Now, please, put on my shoes and imagine this situation:

You are at your work, doing your job the best you can. Your boss supports you and gives you money for it. He even tells you "man, keep working like that".

And now, one day, a random visitor goes to your work place and tells you stuff like "Man, stop doing what you do", "you are a scammer", "nobody believes in you", "your boss is stupid but I know more" ,"you will make a lot more (money/friends) if you make things my way", "screw the people that are supporting and placing your trust in you", "give me what I want just because I ask you to", "look at that guy how successful he is!", "noone else doing the same as you"...

Will you really BETRAY the work you love and the people who is already believing, supporting and feeding positivity just because a guy (or a bunch of guys), who you do not know and only seem to ask you FREE stuff only for their own benefit, only because they promise you could be more rich/loved/successful/whatever?

And when you say "give me time". They immediately come back, notice you haven't obeyed them, and they start insult you, try so hard to sink your hard work, to make you less successful, to make you feel miserable, and start telling lies (even if they are unwillingful lies) to everyone because they want the people who is/could-be supporting you just ignore you and turn their back on you...

...will you?


Merry Christmas.
 
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May 30, 2017
436
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Alright, Smutt messaged me again an hour before his last message, I thought that maybe, just maybe it was a sign that he was going to try and fix an issue people were having. But here we are again, another post claiming that reality is purely subjective and that how his players feel about his game is irrelevant, and that all the issues raised are bogus.

Smutt sent me this about 12 hours ago:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I replied an hour and a half ago with this:

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

TLDR, Smutt has changed some of his behaviors for the better. He is releasing SOME content with each update now. He is somewhat less aggressive with his posts here. That is a good thing. But he is only doing it because people criticize him when he does the wrong thing. He only does it because it is profitable for him to change. It's like the AAA gaming industry, they only change their behaviors when it is profitable for them to do so. Battlefront 2 tanked because they went too far with microtransactions, so they removed them.

Smutt is right that people want a Star Wars game. Smutt is right that people will pay for it. But his argument seems to be that because we want a Star Wars game, any criticism of his game is unwarranted, or is people trying to "harm the project".

This couldnt be further from the truth

Speaking for myself, I criticize the problems with the game because I want it to be better. I want it to be more player friendly and fun. Every time I have made a criticism I have articulated how the issue makes the game less enjoyable, and usually propose a fix for the problem. Is that trying to harm the project?

The other thing to mention is that Smutt is operating under the assumption that having a small playerbase paying a lot of money for his game is better than a bigger playerbase paying on average a smaller amount. That is clearly untrue. Look at the most popular patreon projects and they have more patrons, often more patrons paying less or getting less rewards. Look at Akabur, he still has a ton of patreon money even though he releases a tiny amount of content. Why? Because he treats his patreon like a tip jar and releases his games free. He lets people pay what they want for the game and doesnt restrict content. Similar things can be said about Mythic Manor.

We want a game yes. But we also want that game to be good. That is "not a crime".
 
May 30, 2017
436
2,716
Oh my, another message just as I finish mine. Ok. Lets break Smutt's last two messages down, because golly gosh:
Death Star Trainer does not have DRM (Digital Rights Management)
Encrypting your save files is DRM, plain an simple. And your own changelogs state that some versions still have encrypted saves. DRM is stuff that makes it harder for pirates to share your game. Encrypting the saves was an attempt to make the pirate versions less enjoyable so people would pay you for a better version.

In fact, I believe that have YOU also have faith in this project. You and all the people who constantly come back to this thread and spread "incorrect or not contrasted" information, most of the times, based on their assumptions (because I promise you that I haven't had proper conversations with all those people who try to harm this project).
You keep calling the community a bunch of liars (you have been trying to avoid using the word liar because your posts that did were removed by mods). You havent actually pointed out any lies or smears in any of your posts however. What lies are you talking about? This is a tactic from you trying to delegitimize criticism and the thread by attacking and shouting down legitimate criticism. You have done this before claiming that the negative reviews were all fake and that the mods werent doing their jobs. Ironically that post got removed by mods.

Also note that if you intentionally withhold information from people (like you literally just confirmed you did) then you only have yourself to blame for allegedly "false" information about your game spreading. Everyone has been telling you to be more transparent. Thats all you have to do.

They want it to succeed so hard... but only on their own terms, otherwise they will spread false information that will only harm the project.
Again, what information is false? There are opinions here that are subjective, but all objective information that has been presented has been true as far as I know.

Lets say you continue dowloading this game in f95zone for free (or $0), which is totally fine because it is your money and nobody is forcing you to spend it. You go on like this, and lets guess the development takes two years, as you said, to fully develop this game, and you keep playing it this way......... 24x$0= 0.000$....... only to get the same, but just some time later.
Ok, this is whataboutism. The poster didnt ask you about the free players. He asked you to defend charging over a thousand dollars for your game to top tier players. You have constantly ignored or redirected this question. People aren't stupid. They know you are deflecting.

I do not know what the other devs really do, because I have not had a proper conversation with them and neither I have spent the time to make a deep analysis of their patreon sites, but I like to think that most of us do more or less the same:
We release the game for free. We expect that just a tiny percentage of our public understand the complexities of creating "anything" in this world, and they will want to support the creator so we can keep doing it.
If you don't know what other devs do how can you claim to know what their business model is? Secondly we have told you over and over that you are doing things differently and less efficiently than other devs and how to fix it. Don't release and upkeep 5 separate versions. Do one version. Have a clear release schedule and changelogs. Charge less for your top tiers. Simple.

I cannot judge the screams inside of you. They are never bron from whats in front of us, but from negative past experiences.
I could release free versions for two years in this forum, but if you decide to hear the screams inside your head instead of what you see, you will never stop believeing that you will get fucked in a possible future.
Fear may be useful sometimes, but it is an irrational thing only inside our minds, and it does not usually care for rational thoughts.
Again, trying to claim objective criticism is subjective and biased is a propaganda tactic. Trust is earned. You start being trustworthy and listening to your community, people will trust you more. Easy!

I probably have less experience than you in marketing. Otherwise I would not have this "community" issues.
Again, few devs have any marketing experience in this market. It isn't about your marketing it's about your business model and your demeanor. For instance, putting the community in quotation marks in order to be sarcastic is rude. You need the community. Treat them with respect.

Also, if you admit you dont know how to do something, try and learn from people who are trying to help you. Dont say theyre biased people trying to sink your game.

I fucking ROASTED the Personal Trainer game in my review for it. And the dev fucking messaged me saying my criticisms were legit, that he really valued my opinions and input and explained how he was going to make the game better in future based on my ideas. Totally out of the blue. It was a truly impressive, and even though I didnt like the game, I am keeping tabs on it because he got me invested in his vision.

I do my best trying not to be rude. Like other people here, English is not my native language, and I may lack the words to express myself in a proper way.
It isnt the words you use that cause the most offense, its the ideas you express. Your vocabulary isnt the problem, ignoring criticism and paint critics as villains who want to sink you is the problem.

I want to know you that I understand your dislikes about the game. But please, understand that I only want to create a enjoyable game and get people to support me (it should not be any crime in that). Understand that even if you may have good suggestions and ideas, and even if they may be better than mine, Death Star Trainer is my baby, and I also want to be able to build it the way I want.
Ok, if you acknowledge you game has faults, try and fix them. If you do something you know is bad just because you want to, then you arent trying to create an enjoyable game. Youre just being stubborn. The other thing is that, like we've said, the game is designed in a way that makes it grindy and unenjoyable in order to encourage people to pay you more. That is not creating a game, that is not seeking support, that is greed.

I may have made mistakes, but nothing justifies some of the attitudes and comments that I or this project are receiving.
This is called the poisoned well argument. I mean it's also a straw man really, but who cares. Basically you single out a handful of angry outliers who arent constructive (of which there really arent many) and then say that you cant listen to critics because the outliers poisoned the well.

And when you say "give me time". They immediately come back, notice you haven't obeyed them, and they start insult you, try so hard to sink your hard work, to make you less successful, to make you feel miserable, and start telling lies (even if they are unwillingful lies) to everyone because they want the people who is/could-be supporting you just ignore you and turn their back on you...
Ok, here you contradict yourself. You keep saying all the critics want your game, that you listen to all of them, that they are constructive. But at the same time you argue that everyone who is critical hates you and just wants you to fail. Which is it?
 
May 30, 2017
436
2,716
Then can you please stop writting messages where you spread lies, are disprespectful, try to sink my hard work, to make me less successful, to make me feel miserable, only because you just want people to turn their back on me?
How does that have to do with you randomly coloring messages though? Anywho, that was just a suggestion to make your posts more readable, you do you.

But to your point, what lies have I told? How has what I said tried to sink your work? Where in my comments was I disrespectful? Why when I try and convince you over and over that people want you to succeed, people who are sharing ideas you repeatedly acknowledge are helpful or better than your own ideas, do you still believe I want people to "turn their back on you"

You have told people off in this thread for "feeling things". You have claimed that people's objective and reasoned criticism is biased. You have shown disrespect to the forum and its mods over and over again. When are you going to actually discuss with us our objective concerns? My two messages contained a plethora of constructive feedback and improvements you could make. You ignored them and called me a liar. Why?

Lets TLDR some of the suggestions:
- Develop one game, not 5
- Have a changelog for all of the versions
- Dont lock cheats
- Reduce the price of your top tiers
- Have an easily understandable release schedule

Technical stuff
- Less button presses for each action
- Less grind
- Remove most of the obtrusive patreon messages
- Make upgrades that dont have content yet free, or lock them, so people dont waste time
- Focus on making your current characters deeper, like SU is finally doing, rather than making a broad game with no depth
- Bug test your game before releasing it

Communication stuff:
- Be more transparent
- Dont make personal attacks on critics
- Dont ignore points you dont want to talk about and only focus on reiterating your talking points (ie. I respect all criticsm/critics are all trying to sink me, ie. I need more time to do simple stuff like unlock cheats or release content Ive made already)
- Dont call people liars and then refuse to release correct information

There you go. Game fixed.
 

Livvy

Member
Mar 15, 2018
247
447
Then can you please stop writting messages where you spread lies, are disprespectful, try to sink my hard work, to make me less successful, to make me feel miserable, only because you just want people to turn their back on me?

Your time should be used more wisely.

If you want to change things for good, join a NGO, help old ladies to cross the street, or do something to make the world better instead of spreading lies about me just to get stuff only for your own benefit.

Oh, and please, do NOT put medals on you for my improvements.
I don't see how Venegeful is putting any medals on himself. Nor how any of what has been said benefits him. Criticism benefits you. You want to make more money off this game. We don't make anything from criticising you and asking for improvements., other than the chance of a better game.

As for saying that he should join a NGO? Come now,if we started slinging comments like that around, well its be very distasteful. You should take your own advice to heart; spend your time more wisely.
 

Livvy

Member
Mar 15, 2018
247
447
Funny, because I'm pretty sure I played and supported your game, and yet have issue with how you're conducting yourself. Yet here we are, and you continue to be very disrespectful to players and supporters. You have personally asked for my help in the past and I feel like it's been ignored. In fact I know it has since you are still attempting to create five games at once.

To others in this thread I will say this; I am losing the hope I had that the dev will listen to reason, or criticism. Indeed, that appears to be a dirty word to him. Only praise is allowed, it seems. Someday this game might improve, but any criticisms or improvements you suggest will likely be implemented in the latest version, if at all. Which will be months down from being publicly available. I wish the dev wasn't so venomous, but alas.
 

Kaiww

Member
Jul 8, 2018
148
81
Are you still trying not to be offensive here?
Nope i did not. What i wanted to say with my Post is that you might get more paying costumers if you change your thinking in this regard maybe even me if i see the Project moving forward in Time.

Everything i said in my Post was only my Opinon. How I did feel when i tried the Version here and saw your Patreon site.
Freedom of thought is a fine thing and perhaps i am the only that sees things that way but i got the feeling i am not. So i wanted to show you how your good intentions of trying to make a adult Star Wars game could easly be misunderstood.

I apreciate that you are trying to explain yourself, but in a time were a triple A Titel comes out as an unplayable bugfest people have become very suspicious. Your are arguing that i am not paying and that i am playing, very cut down version, of your Game for free, fair enough but YOU are the one that is asking, if I like your Game, to support you over Peatron. In this moment you want my Money is as Simple as that. All i wantet was to tell you that with your current model i do not feel safe to give you my Money.

If you felt that my last sentence was insulting or ofensive, my apologys, i did not mean it that way.

i wish you best of luck with your Game and hope that you get not discouraged by all this and that your Game will be a sucess.
 
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RomanHume

Sommelier of Pussy & Purveyor of Porn
Game Developer
Jan 5, 2018
2,390
13,336
I believe that people who play, support and have faith in this project does not want me to waste any more of my time having an endless and usless conversation with bullshitters that will turn everything I say against me, put words in my mouth I never said, and giving them more "delusions of grandeur".

If you want to send me your suggestions, help me make a better game and have honest and respectful conversations, I am here for you and I will read and think about all of them.

I already made my point. You can try to emphatize, you can use it to make me look like a devil with lies and bullshit, or do whatever you want.

It is your life and your time :)
One dev to another here, I've been reading through the thread and I think perhaps you are missing a very important point. I get the impression that many of the players here do want your game to be successful. And I think many of them would become patrons and many more want to become patrons, but they are questioning your intention and business practices.

We went through a similar phase in our own development. We had never hosted a Patreon page before and had no idea what we were doing. We had a tier model where different levels of support unlocked different sets of characters in the game. It made sense to us and we felt we were rewarding high dollar patrons while still offering something to lower tiers of support. No surprise, it was hugely unpopular. We got blasted, and in hind sight rightly, because it maligned public perspective of our intentions.

People here want to support you, they want to give you money, but not if they suspect you are a shill or con artist. I'm not saying you are a con artist or shill, but if that is the opinion the gaming public has of you, you have to acknowledge it and deal with it. Ignoring public opinion about you and your project is only going to hurt you in the long run. It may not stop your growth outright, but it can slow it extraordinarily. If a change in practices nets you a 1000% bump in patronage, is that not worth it? Look at games like Summertime Saga. Dark Cookie is pulling in almost $50k with an per patron average of $2. This clearly demonstrates that you don't need extortionate tiers to make it happen. You also don't need to conceal how much you're making on Patreon to get people to want to support you.

One thing we've learned from studying the best developers around here is that you gain more player support, more patronage, and more good will by being completely open with your playing public whether they are paying or not. We don't bother with DRM or trying to lock anything down because we've learned that if people like us, they will support us. You don't have to box them in or hold them to ransom to get their support. I'm not saying you are holding people at gunpoint, but again, if they perceive you are, they will resent you as a developer and never throw you a dime.

I'm only offering up my advice because your situation looks very similar to ours when we began and I thought it worth it to share our experience. Do with it what you may.

Best of luck! Cheers!
 

Kaiww

Member
Jul 8, 2018
148
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I had some time again and did read that you said you had no expirence with Marketing so i thought about an example to give you how i see this. And thats all it is my thoughts and a way i personaly would find better to gather support for your game.
Take out of it what you like its not a attempt to stier you in any direction.

To give you an example of an Peatron marketing strategy I have seen somewere else and wich I personaly found a good one
and in the end i did support the Dev because he made a good game:

Game Version (example) : 4.55 comes out for top tier supporters (lets say the 45 $ +)
two weeks later: 4.55 is available for all supports of 10 $ +
two weeks later: 4.55 is available for supports of 1$ +
two weeks later: 4.55 is available for free.

Its simple and clean and people will see what you are doing. And your higher Tier supporter have the versions much more early.

What the devs, were I took the exampler from, did to encourage paying costumers was to add very, very small things from time to time only for the Peatron supporters and did not add them in the Free Version. These were not Frequent every two Month or so and so small that they were easy to take out for the Puplic version and did not at all cut down any part of the Game. (I think one time is was a very small BJ scene with a popular character and another it was only one aditional outfit.)

I think if they did put in more Extras, for paying supporters, they would have had a discusion with the players. (See pre-order dlcs for triple A games, that is a hot debatet thing between companys and players since a long time.)

This gives people like me an incentiv to actualy support the Game, not because I want the new version early, also this might be of course a reason for some people, but because i can make myself a real picture of were you are going with your work.
A Cut down version for free does not help to see what you are actually doing because looking at the Patch notes you linked up earlyer it looked for me like you were creating different content for different tiers. I think that is were a lot of people get the wrong impression. They think you hide beind a paywall and because nobody can see what is happening they get the feeling that it might be a empty promise.

The Time differnt of two weeks for the 1$+ to the free Version does not seem so much but it is there and there will be people that do not want to wait two weeks and lets face it you will probably make much more from the small ones then from the whales and giving the people the chance to see were your Game will be going is always a much better catch then hiding parts of the Game behind a paywall.

It might take a while for u to get rolling but give the costumers some time, if they see regular updates and the free version are good more people will start supporting you. We are talking about Star Wars if we take the Universe before the Mouse killed it all you have so many possible Characters. ( Were is Mara, oh oh and Jaina ? ;) )

But like i said, its only my Thoughts and i did post it only because you mentioned you have no actual expirence in the hole marketing thing.

(Man this Post escaletet quickly while i wrote it..........sorry for taking up your time and if sombody find this is totaly out of place here.)
 
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