VN Unity Noemi's Toscana Rebirth [v0.22] [beWilder]

[RRX]

this looks decent. Needs a mac version though....

 

[sebtibo1986]

how frankie arrive i never see her ?????????????????????????????????????

 

[BeWilder]

The management section took me a few tries to get used to but I picked that up after a few attempts I've had no issue with the management side to it at all I'll give you this it's different from what I'm used to playing but that's a good thing, I like to even it out with who works when due to the stress factor I'm not sure if there is any sort of limit if you stress someone out to breaking point? I can imagine Kriem would be quite the sight at being stressed as in getting the hell out of her way

Yeah, it is a bit different. We wanted to have a something that makes it a game more than just a VN, a little uniqueness to what we have and all, as well as get people feeling like they are really a part of trying to make the restaurant a success. It's a shame that right now it's more of a hurdle than a nice element of play, but that's why we're trying to make it better. Glad that it is doable, if by some, that means we have something that can work... it just up to us to make sure it does work for most/all folks.

You can only get stressed out up to 100%, and right now staying below 70% is what's worth aiming for (60% is even better, but harder!). It doesn't let you go too far over, but for now being more that 70% worked up means nothing good'll happen, but you don't break down. Kriem is herself really always at 100% even as the gameplay says she's like Noe differently. She's either stoned or ready for a fight, and that's why I love her... to quote her contemporary... "She's like the best toy ever".

this looks decent. Needs a mac version though....

Cheers! It has a Mac version (Linux too), though we can't test it ourselves. It doesn't seem to have made it here though. If you think it's worth it, I'd say give it a play, but as the feedback so far has enlightened it's rather tricky to make the major progress unless you give it some trying so it might be best to wait for the fix in v0.6. We're working on that one right now actually.

how frankie arrive i never see her

She comes to see Noe after the street party and the scene with Brad in the kitchen after. The only prerequisite on her is the story and the debt being down around about $99,600 or so. Hold it below that and you'll get her. I'd suggest avoiding too many stat boosts early on until you get her, and if you can keep your stress for Noe around 60-80%, using the Park or TV Binging will reduced it enough to keep earning.

Hopefully that helps until we get a fresh round of balance on the gameplay in v0.6.

 

[worlder]

That's not our change log/release notes, that's our public teaser details post. That Damon scene didn't make it in for lack of time too. Our release notes are mostly bullet points and a few sentences on stuff, but in essence, yeah that's pretty much the content.

Honestly, the public posts are your foot forward with the community. If you dress it up to be a big thing and then it is 30 minutes of non-sexual content that is -entirely missable-, you've fumbled. Both in delivery and expectation management. Which is a thing that should be considered when managing a project.

In time it shall have us some ntr content, and lesbian content, and maybe even lesbian ntr content too. Won't that be a treat! Still working our way through it though. And yeah, she'll be nasty for a whole lot of people if you shape her that way, all in good time (as the Barenaked Ladies say).

In time, some and maybe are very vague terms. This is a lot of the frustration. Is there any kind of even loose roadmap for the game and what kind of content people can actually expect from it in the future?

Gotta build up before you can crash it down, at least in our way of doing it. There's growing potential for Noe to start leaving Brad out of the fun stuff, but we're not there yet. It's not going to be one of those 'make a wrong (or right) choice and it's straight to cheat city' games, so it's worth knowing that now and baring it in mind. If that's not for you, we understand, but we expect by the end of development it'll be all worth it.

In general most people think the pacing in-game is going fine. The problem is that the pacing in real-life, is not. There are more ways to be sexy and play with the concepts without just having her do something incredibly out of character. Flirty dialogue, inner thoughts, narration of other character reactions to her, those other character's inner thoughts, her response to other people's behavior in situations. Honestly all it takes is a crack to form to get things going, if you had the mind to. There are many mature and well paced games that have.

Glad you had a good impression of the game, at least in the beginning, that's a good ground for us to actually try and build upon in future. That's if you're interested in trying to help us reach the potential you saw early on, and if that's not based on some idea of what the game isn't supposed to be (which may well be a case of two different points of view). That's a conversation to have a little later though, as we've got some addressing of you criticisms to do first. Let's start.

I would welcome even a brief summary of where you are planning to take the game.

A quick aside... probably best you take the next couple of months off from what we're doing as I get the sence a lot of Autumn content won't make you happy. There's plenty out there so I'm sure you'll be fine.

That is about the time frame of the updates anyways if we are being real and it only takes an hour or so to play through any of them. That is kind of the point of a lot of the complaints actually. People are generally okay with supporting these adult games in piecemeal format because at the end of the 2/4/8 week period they sit down, read the hour of build up and, generally, get off to it.

We like to have fun with what we do, is that a bad thing? We make about 5 pics like that max, made using Unshi's spare time by the way, so he can try out new things and be a little creative on the side. They also make nice post material that we can share while we give news updates, we like to stay in contact with our fans on the page like that.

As for the logo, we put a branded watermark on our pics because people can steal them otherwise. That's a standard pratice. One such pic can be found here... (Was also posted earlier in teh thread)


I ask anyone and everyone here, is that so invasive and horrifying? If so, please tell us so we know it do better...

I am not really committed to arguing this point. If it is his free time and that is what he wants to do, power to him. I just wonder why if you guys have the passion to even be working on this stuff when you aren't 'on the clock' you don't channel more of it back into the game? These side renders and pinups could really beef up the game. Dreams, mini-game bonuses that are non-canon, giving the player the -choice- to go a little out of character sometimes, even. You guys market and brand a disproportionate amount to what is necessary or warranted by the current state of the game. Just my opinion.

Yeah, we might have long run on posts, but we highlight important stuff to check out, and our patch notes are not all that "flowery". For one, most of the notes that are post here aren't even the patch notes, and at the time of post that's true for the latest version too.

So I am honestly confused here, do you applaud the writer, or do you not? You can't really have it both ways, and as long as the criticism is contructive and good natured, we're happy to hear it.

Actually, we can all have it both ways. Continue writing your enticing teasers about the nature of the content, because it is good, but also include a definitive list of the amount of new scenes, how many are sexual, and tag those which are niche fetish. There are dozens of games that do this well and all the biggest/best adult games using the monthly content style do this.

"8 new scenes including;
2 main story
1 main story (explicit, optional)
1 side scene
2 side scenes (explicit, vanilla)
1 side scene (explicit, ntr)
1 bonus scene"

No no... we don't imply this, we state it as the absolute fact. We've had this discussion elsewhere and recently too, so I refer you to the Agent of Heels thread for the details there. The simplest summary of that situation is that we can either make 1 game updated ever 5-7 weeks, or 2 games every 7-8 weeks, so while that's the case we're doing the latter. If we on;y did one, it wouldn't be thing game anyway.

I actually feel like if that is truly the case then it is a project management problem. We could break down what is public record for the timing of content but you are adamant on this one and I don't want to argue this one. I will point out that if this is true because of long render times and the likes, then it should also be true that this whole formula will change when you guys actually have that better render pc up you've been talking about. What is the plan then? I imagine it will be the same update schedule and new reasoning for why multiple large projects doesn't effect workflow. :/

I agree about the world build scenes, I've a whole ream of short pieces between the girls, of them discussing music, eating together, playing pranks on each other and all that lovely stuff. I love that kind of thing. They'll likely never go in the game though, because they'll only make for fodder as to why we don't have more sex and a faster paced game instead, which is a very good argument. It's one of the criticisms you have for us today too, so which is it that you'd really want?

You are continuing to be a bit sith-lordy in your absolutes. There is a world where we can have both. When you plan an update
are you actually considering in-depth what the end user experience for that patch is going to be like? You can include any amount of world building content and still include enough to also let your users be turned on by the end of the session. Put that stuff in. Make it available to us if you enjoy writing it. Do what you like to do but then think about the rest of us and throw us a bone. Make a few of the conversations a little sexy. Let it build up a bit and then actually include an explosive scene to end the scenario with. These don't have to be endlessly branching paths. Just one branch on the tree. Write it straight and let us choose how far and when we go down it. You already have this perfectly set up for with the free time screen.

Again, not really a whole truth. The vast majority of our post get 0 comments. What feedback we get some directly from fans (and non fans) who chat with us in other places, and we show up to hear them out. A large part of the people who speak out asking what's going on are those that don't follow our day-in and day-out on what's what. Many of their questions have been asked and answered before... but that's not unique to us.

They are asked again and again because they are relevant and reoccurring. If people are continuously asking why nothing is happening in the story for multiple major updates, shouldn't you be seriously looking into it?

I take your point on your perception of our quality. We do believe things can be better and we're always working towards them. That's why we're always asking for specific feedback to help do it, reworking things that need it and anyone kind enough to help us on that is always welcome. Attacks on us aren't helpful so much, since clearly the problem is not a lack of us showing up and trying.

Am I a little annoyed? Yes. But at no point have I made any kind of severe personal attack. This IS constructive criticism.

This point I do so very much dispute. It's far from that, and there's really no way you could know our intentions. It so happens we both happen to live in expensive Western Europe, and left jobs where our hourly rate was higher than the most we except in a month's pledge. Forgive us for needing to eat, and pay bills, and thinking maybe quality, effort and passion is worth actually paying for. Now, with that said, we do think and have discussed ourselves internally that maybe our prizes are a bit high, but changing them is a very big thing to do and we're not sure of the full effects ( we spend most of our time creating after all, it's difficult to find the time to do in-depth research)

The forgive us for needing to eat and pay bills stuff is a bit much. You can absolutely have higher tiers. However, in my opinion and from examining more successful patreons, they should be populated with your most supportive and giving fans and not people who are baited in by grueling content drip schedule of release tiers. The bulk of your support is going to come from regular people who support a handful of games at the lowest 1,3,5 etc tiers. Let your highest tiers have those creative side projects and early CG previews, but treat your supporters more equally otherwise.

People pay per month (like most pages) and we release per month. Everyone who does more than support in gratitude/sybolism gets a release for their money and support. Depending on how you manage the support, you can even get two, which is wha a decent amount of people do. We put a lot of effort in to making things worth it, providing bonus stuff just for fans (really we would like to not have to parse out people based on if they pay us or not but that's capitalism for you), and not being the greedy fucks that give being a dev a bad name. Y'all know who they are.

If you guys just made being a lower tier patron less shitty and actually got some satisfying (TO USERS) scenes out the door you would undoubtedly find more growth and not have to parse people out based on their pledge tier as harshly. I don't think it ever should have been done in the first place but you could still correct it over time if you had the mind to. Personally, I would do it 2 or 3 patches after course correcting the content prioritization for releases. Some of your supporters are playing both of your games but I assume most of them (the silent majority) aren't. Make those every other month releases pack a satisfying punch and people will endure the multiple game nonsense.

Anyway, in the end, nobody is forcing you to support, and if some people do well that's just swell. We love them for it and we return that love as best we can. We're only human after all. Those people support us for all kinds of reasons, none of them likely out of the blue-ball balckmail you speak off because really... that doesn't work. In this industry slice especially, you get waht you pay for, and what you pay for you get. As an individually and collectively.

As quaint as your final lines there were, I very much disagree. Predatory bargaining practices works wonderfully in even just the regular game industry (mtx, lootboxes, etc) and it is moreso effective in the adult game industry. People will give in to impulse (aka being horny) and just say fuck it and go up a tier so they don't have to wait 2 more weeks to fap to a game they saw on F95 and learned was going to be updated soon, but only for 20 bucks. I considered it myself with your own game and I spend plenty enough time in adult communities to know it is very common. The get what you pay for bit is also nonsense. Just look at the dozen high profile abandoned adult games over the years that to this day still get support from delusional, addicted fans. Yeah, some of them are just super generous (mostly irresponsible) souls who just want to give those people 5 bucks forever, but many of them aren't. Don't brush it off. You often DON'T get what you pay for, ESPECIALLY in these patreon "it's just general support, not a contract" type partnerships.

No, that's a misinterpretation of what we'd like, perhaps we didn't make ourselves clear. Spook would not be starting a new game or anything of the sort. The point is to train on art, in using daz, building outfit, locations, assets and character... all the good stuff Unshi does better than most folks around. To do that you actually have to make and render stuff, so the point was to use his talents to create a story and have that fuel the work. Make the render themed on something, build a character we could one day use (or whats the point?), have her in a location that fits her, make her outfit distinct and tell a bit of a story. In order to become a better artist, he's got to do all that work anyway, why not let the fans see the growth?

Anyways, that's a whole side thing, and a potentially moot point anyway. We posted those goals 6 months ago and it's time to review them. It's clear we still have a lot to do elsewhere in improving and giving value to the fans, so this might well get chopped or postponed.

Alternatively, if he has to do all that work anyways, why not have him work on side or bonus content for your main games? The stuff that is good enough can be added and the rest can be delivered and handled in any way you see fit, same as before. You have a serious problem with the community thinking you are unable to deliver an appreciable amount of content, so why not make little optimizations like this to improve it?

And hey, a sincere clap that after all you've had to say you would consider still supporting, that is a level of open mindedness that is worth noting and respecting, so kudos.

I WANT to like your game. It has some of the ingredients to be truly great. It is just missing others and they need to be discussed and taken seriously. No one else is really engaging in a way that is satisfying for me so I have taken it upon myself to be the villain in this case.

Closing Notes!

Alright, seems we've still got a good bit of work ahead of us to make our game better and properly playable. Good to know. Cheers to all those giving us a helping hand and useful feedback/criticizism to work off of, here's hoping we can improve on the backs for your efforts and make something enjoyable for all.

To those few who had non-helpful things to say, whether we directly responded or not, well we've heard you and now we can let the matter rest and instead try to be better all around. Sorry if I got personal in any particular point, I hope you too feel the same if you did too. Best let it slide and all move on, lest we waste our lives away only for the mods to come a delete any legacy we might have. I say good day to you.


Alright folks, off to more satisfying times, which I wish upon you all (if only wishes actually did shit). We'll keep doing our thing and you do yours.

All the best.

This game could be much bigger, better and well funded than it currently is. Please take everyone's feedback seriously and make as many of the compromises as you can as a creator. I have said my piece and am done for now. You are welcome to opt out of replying to this further unless you simply want to make a point to the community as a whole.

 

[JesterAI]

I think a lesson to be learned here is if you pitch your game as offering content X, by the time you make it available to receive pledges, have at least SOME of content X available, and always add a little more of the focused content with each update.

Think- "will people be able to have an orgasm from the game's primary fetish with this update?" if the answer is no, don't release the update.

Imagine a game called Strippers in Paradise. For a year, you get to see no stripping, and not even any tropical weather- you get to see girls in Michigan who are gradually wearing more revealing clothes at the gym while they aren't making much money waiting tables. After a year, they are now working at Hooters and wearing slutty gym clothes, and in another year, they might move to Paradise or start stripping.

Better to have a paragraph saying, "these girls used to wait tables in Michigan and started working at Hooters to make more money. They hated the weather and wanted to make more money so they moved to Florida and started working at the strip club." Then the first beta has a scene at the strip club and the story can start.

 

[Avaron1974]

We're not so different you and I... except for the whole penis having thing. You don't have one on a shelf in you closet too, do you?

Usually I wouldn't say I'm a "romance" kinda person, but I do love me some character focus and that tends to do well with some adult situations (not exclusively the lewd kind) and drama, so I do tend to enjoy the romance end of things too. What brings you to this game then, the story or the hot pixel women? We don't claim to be revolutionary on either, but we'd like to think we do both well (comparatively maybe) and if it turns out not then it helps to hear why.

Yeah, I think we agree on the rape front in some respects. It's not really for me. Some people like it in their stories, alright I suppose, but even digitally I'm not super into it. That stuff really does mess people up and I've a little too much empathy for it I think. It's got it's place in narratives and character backgrounds etc, but for the most part stories can have people actually liking to fuck, so that's what I prefer too. Why not have all the fun, for everyone?!

Same again on corruption games. I'm not really down on them, it's just that most of them end up with dumb people doing dumb things, which needn't be the case. That's more what this game is, more so corruption with themes of more serious ntr elements included in some character paths, but I try to make it so Noemi isn't that brainless by the end... her attitude is a big part of the sexy after all. Admittedly it's hard making people do things they normally wouldn't without falling into porn logic and tropes, but we do try... and that's why we're in this pacing slump. Damn you natural, semi-long term character development! Hopefully it's worth it in end. I think it will be, but I'm not the judge of that.

Refreshing you say? Dare I deduce we might be doing something a little right? Or is that a general statement?

Ok, now we disagree... Options? Yes! All of them woman-on-woman? No! Only many of them woman-on-woman! We have some ladies night scenes in the planner, and it's a theme we do like to hit on in our content a lot, but there is something to be said about ladies making use of men for the good times too. Even the guys getting some lead time, why not? I admit though, I do love to write relationships between girls, be they friends, enemies, intimate or a mix of them all. There's just something much more fun about them. For guys I like the pure buddy pair but girls can be so much more and get away with it too. Natasha and Selina is real fun to write for in Agents of Heels and I expect some notable lady pairs in Noemi's story as well. If that leads to sex... who am I to tell them no?

When I mentioned all the women only going for women that wasn't serious. Sure i'd love it but it wouldn't make for a very interesting game, I know not everyone is into that and i'd never suggest it seriously.

As for why i'm here, both for the women and the story.

For started the character models and renders are gorgeous, it was worth going through the origins and this just for those.

As for the story, sure it isn't War and Peace and isn't set to be the next epic tale that lights the world but it's good.

Sometimes a simple story that shows the struggles of a group of people as they adapt to fit the world around them is more than enough to keep people hooked.

When you get a story like this it's told more through the characters than anything else and this has a good enough cast to carry a story.

Given options I doubt i'd have Noe turn into a cum hungry mega slut but i'll certainly enjoy watching her grow as a character and open up a bit more.

 

[BeWilder]

Well know, seems like we are getting a little somewhere that we can work from. I will respond in but a longer conversation might be worth putting a pin in since we do have work to do, that's clear. Some smaller chats on more important points over a little time might be more appropriate, we'll see how it all goes.

Honestly, the public posts are your foot forward with the community. If you dress it up to be a big thing and then it is 30 minutes of non-sexual content that is -entirely missable-, you've fumbled. Both in delivery and expectation management. Which is a thing that should be considered when managing a project.

We do get a little over excite at times and we do a bit of hype for sure. We're working on longer timelines but in smaller chunks than you'll find in most projects, so keeping things lively as we ramp up content wise is something we've got to do. Maybe we don't do it so well? Quite possibly, but it is also true people shouldn't expect to see a sudden jump into depths out of nowhere either. We don't make promises we don't intend or try to keep, so it's not about anything sinister, we don't say things sex is coming when we know it isn't.

In time, some and maybe are very vague terms. This is a lot of the frustration. Is there any kind of even loose roadmap for the game and what kind of content people can actually expect from it in the future?

There is. We don't make it a front and centre thing because we change and update it frequently based on the content most needed and the new scenes we have in the backlog. Making audibles way out in the open only causes more confusion, so we keep people in the loop with the nearest stuff and keep the rest to those who need it, lest we end up promising something that's not coming soon. The 'maybe' comes into the longer term picture, as while we have our direction and our goals, we can't say for certain what the future holds and if by the end all the things we envision will be achievable, and "lesbian ntr" / things that specifically niche are reasonably considered the lowest priority. If we can do it all, we will, but again, we'd like to avoid promises we can't be sure we can keep over the longest terms like that.

In general most people think the pacing in-game is going fine. The problem is that the pacing in real-life, is not. There are more ways to be sexy and play with the concepts without just having her do something incredibly out of character. Flirty dialogue, inner thoughts, narration of other character reactions to her, those other character's inner thoughts, her response to other people's behavior in situations. Honestly all it takes is a crack to form to get things going, if you had the mind to. There are many mature and well paced games that have.

Well that's nice to hear. The in-game pacing I mean. We've got places to improve to on all fronts, writing included, and these are actually some good advice points too, so thank you. Isn't it great when we can see eye to eye? With our most assertive and suggest character on the way to the cast, perhaps we'll see some more shine through, and as our skills improve over time too. We are limited by how much we can do a month so we do agree that making the most of it is a key aim.

I would welcome even a brief summary of where you are planning to take the game.

Alright, we'll keep it simple, with room to do more discussing if that's worth doing. The basic idea is:

Spoiler: Concept Summary

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How's that? Some clarifying info there to help make it clearer what we're aiming for? Do tell.

That is about the time frame of the updates anyways if we are being real and it only takes an hour or so to play through any of them. That is kind of the point of a lot of the complaints actually. People are generally okay with supporting these adult games in piecemeal format because at the end of the 2/4/8 week period they sit down, read the hour of build up and, generally, get off to it.

An hour is a good aim for a minor story element, a single sitting and a mostly contained content shot that lays out a specific point, I would be right in thinking? I'm not sure I get your point on on this one, so it may be worth clarifying. If it's a package of content that can be sit down and enjoyed with something to make it pop, why is that a problem? I get that some people would like to see the opportunity cost not taken and instead the resources spent on more main game time, but that doesn't seem to be what you are saying here, instead we should make the Mini-VN's bigger? Have more sex content?

I am not really committed to arguing this point. If it is his free time and that is what he wants to do, power to him. I just wonder why if you guys have the passion to even be working on this stuff when you aren't 'on the clock' you don't channel more of it back into the game? These side renders and pinups could really beef up the game. Dreams, mini-game bonuses that are non-canon, giving the player the -choice- to go a little out of character sometimes, even. You guys market and brand a disproportionate amount to what is necessary or warranted by the current state of the game. Just my opinion.

We'll agree to differ on this one then. I see your point on it, but I can only speak for myself on this one and not on why Unshi does them. I do know that we work on our stuff full time, it's also a job to us, but we do it because we have passions for it. We also need to have a hobby, and like everyone else we have fleeting interests in things from time to time. When we need to step away from the projects for an evening, after a solid bit of work for sure, I like to blow off some steam by trying new things for new characters and in new situations, and so I do little side things to avoid burnout. I suspect it's much the same for him.

There was a comic about in the Oatmeal a long time back, about how creating is like breathing, and inhaling is like recharge your creativity. It's a bit like that, only we keep our passions from waning with some variety, rather than by playing video games or watching movies. We only make a small fraction of our month's content like that though, and we don't want mishmashes of ideas and creative things getting in the way and confusing our main content. Imagine what it would be like if we had Harley Quinn appear in Agents of Heels for a single scene or even two, with no serious context or a fitting place, rather than make a render or two of her for the page? That would be madness, and it would confuse players to no end, wouldn't you think?

Anyway, that's just my explanation. As you said, you're not one to argue this and we're not really either. That's about all there is to say, hope it is illuminating.

Actually, we can all have it both ways. Continue writing your enticing teasers about the nature of the content, because it is good, but also include a definitive list of the amount of new scenes, how many are sexual, and tag those which are niche fetish. There are dozens of games that do this well and all the biggest/best adult games using the monthly content style do this.

"8 new scenes including;
2 main story
1 main story (explicit, optional)
1 side scene
2 side scenes (explicit, vanilla)
1 side scene (explicit, ntr)
1 bonus scene"

Thank you for the compliment on the writing. We do actually give patch notes like that, see the spoiler below for a sample, but maybe it is worth doing in the public posts as well. Like we said, there is room to improve after all.

Spoiler: Patch Notes Sample - AoH v0.10

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Note: I did omit the features bits, which tend to be more "flowery" as you put it, but the technical aspect point should be clear. You also see why we do point out that the public teaser post content isn't quite the same as the official patch note style, right?

I actually feel like if that is truly the case then it is a project management problem. We could break down what is public record for the timing of content but you are adamant on this one and I don't want to argue this one. I will point out that if this is true because of long render times and the likes, then it should also be true that this whole formula will change when you guys actually have that better render pc up you've been talking about. What is the plan then? I imagine it will be the same update schedule and new reasoning for why multiple large projects doesn't effect workflow. :/

It's not, we make the most out of what we can do. We only have one artist and one natural English speaker, but two trained programmers (which is the least time consuming task because of it), so again it's a case of making the most if what we have. It just so happens that on each game we can divide the work 67-33% but not 50-50%.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, but it's honestly not something we can prove, it's just something to take our word on if you can. As it stands, we have two games in the works now, but if we suddenly were able to make a big shift in our capabilities, only doing one would be something to consider seriously. We might end up doing two still, but we'd be straight about it, or we might end up doing one. It's something we've been considering, but also worth noting that we're closing in on an end on our first game eventually, way before we ever expect to get that new PC, so it may well be a moot point by then too.

You are continuing to be a bit sith-lordy in your absolutes. There is a world where we can have both. When you plan an update
are you actually considering in-depth what the end user experience for that patch is going to be like? You can include any amount of world building content and still include enough to also let your users be turned on by the end of the session. Put that stuff in. Make it available to us if you enjoy writing it. Do what you like to do but then think about the rest of us and throw us a bone. Make a few of the conversations a little sexy. Let it build up a bit and then actually include an explosive scene to end the scenario with. These don't have to be endlessly branching paths. Just one branch on the tree. Write it straight and let us choose how far and when we go down it. You already have this perfectly set up for with the free time screen.

We'll keep it in mind, sure. Our current challenge is the early stages of the character, which is something we've mentioned earlier. As you've said, once there is a crack we can make it build from there. Our expectations are that now Kelsey is appearing we can slow the main story some and hit more of those character threadlines we mentioned above as we go, pushing them more like we have the story until now. Once we get there, we would just love it if we were having sexy parts to full sex in almost every single one of our scenes, but that too is a little too much, isn't it? That might just be the time to include more of the interplay shorts. Balance out the scenes rather than hit the other extreme. We may even see more of the character interplay on our way there, I know I like to try get in included.

How about that? As a player and as the point maker, how does that sound to you?

They are asked again and again because they are relevant and reoccurring. If people are continuously asking why nothing is happening in the story for multiple major updates, shouldn't you be seriously looking into it?

I don't dispute that, what I mean is that in many respects people find the same problem, we hear and respond to it, we take it on board and we aim to fix it. We add the tutorial for example, and that seems to have helped in some areas but it turns out that's not whole issue, so we're working on the debt spiking now, which wasn't clear to us as a problem since the limited feedback said it was likely a lack of understanding of the elements.

Now, that is on us, which is why we are repeated calling on folks to tell us about their experience with the gameplay parts so we can suss out as much as possible at once. We're not overlooking it, we just need to do better on it for sure. At the same time our efforts are made much harder by a lack of helpful user experience insights and reporting. That's why I took issue with your comment. We do some much want to make a good game, we're not ignoring it, we're just not doing so well in fixing it and we'd like the help from people leaving feedback of their experiences rather than abusive comments (not referring you yours in this instance) or claims against us that are unfounded (this one is you) in our opinion.

Am I a little annoyed? Yes. But at no point have I made any kind of severe personal attack. This IS constructive criticism.

I was more referring to this part on that point

Aye. The NTR content in this game actually just amounts to BeWilder cucking everyone who has shown an interest in their game over the last year, lol.

That one in my mind was unnecessary and coloured the tone of all else you posted. That was my meaning there. Now... it might be a little far down in this whole thing for this but now would be a good time to say sorry. Seriously. Your feedback this time around is more constructive and civil in tone than the last, and it may well be because I was rather annoyed myself at your first comments when read in that painted light above, so for that I am sorry. I'll touch on it a little lower too, but this is more helpful and a more enjoyable exchange, I feel I've learned a little more and we're not so at each others throats, instead being more calm and explaining, so that would be better for us to frame this going forward. I hope you'll see that you're comment above did play a role in the initial disharmony, but I didn't handle it great either, did I? Let's move passed it and continue trying to improve the game as we are. Cool?
[/QUOTE]

The forgive us for needing to eat and pay bills stuff is a bit much. You can absolutely have higher tiers. However, in my opinion and from examining more successful patreons, they should be populated with your most supportive and giving fans and not people who are baited in by grueling content drip schedule of release tiers. The bulk of your support is going to come from regular people who support a handful of games at the lowest 1,3,5 etc tiers. Let your highest tiers have those creative side projects and early CG previews, but treat your supporters more equally otherwise.

I don't think it's a bit much actually, but this too was in part derived from the piece above. Being a dev isn't all that easy, and a lot of people tend to have the view that they should be getting everything for nothing and bitches for free. That's not the case with you? Great, to the actual point then.

We actually get a healthy mix across all tiers in support and while we have turnover in people, it's mostly at the lower end and not as much as one might expect (hard to tell though). It seems a lot of support comes from solid fandom, if not a lot of people, rather than people being in some way conned into higher support from lower tiers. We might have a chicken and egg situation here though, let's see... The reason we have higher tiers like that are because we need to make enough support to keep afloat so we can keep the games going. The wait between the tiers is not to punish the lower ones but to make sure it's worth it for the those who really go beyond the bar to see us through. It may well end up being both in practice, two sides of the same coin, but the issue I have with the characterization is the ill intent connotations to it. That's not whats going on. It may well be worth a reform, but where do go from where we are? We just about get by and we have a release for all our fans every month. It's not ideal but there is a lot to lose as much as there is to gain, so what would you do as a player making the tiers that would solve the problem of an appearance of unfairness? Let us know, it's good to get outside opinion there too.

If you guys just made being a lower tier patron less shitty and actually got some satisfying (TO USERS) scenes out the door you would undoubtedly find more growth and not have to parse people out based on their pledge tier as harshly. I don't think it ever should have been done in the first place but you could still correct it over time if you had the mind to. Personally, I would do it 2 or 3 patches after course correcting the content prioritization for releases. Some of your supporters are playing both of your games but I assume most of them (the silent majority) aren't. Make those every other month releases pack a satisfying punch and people will endure the multiple game nonsense.

I'll point you to the above point and it's question again about being less shitty. What does that mean to you?

I'll admit I'm a little lost on this point of yours. Can you elaborate some? "I would do it", what 'it' do you refer? "Course correcting" is also not something I'm gripping, what specific course correcting do you mean, the page? The game content?

As quaint as your final lines there were, I very much disagree. Predatory bargaining practices works wonderfully in even just the regular game industry (mtx, lootboxes, etc) and it is moreso effective in the adult game industry. People will give in to impulse (aka being horny) and just say fuck it and go up a tier so they don't have to wait 2 more weeks to fap to a game they saw on F95 and learned was going to be updated soon, but only for 20 bucks. I considered it myself with your own game and I spend plenty enough time in adult communities to know it is very common. The get what you pay for bit is also nonsense. Just look at the dozen high profile abandoned adult games over the years that to this day still get support from delusional, addicted fans. Yeah, some of them are just super generous (mostly irresponsible) souls who just want to give those people 5 bucks forever, but many of them aren't. Don't brush it off. You often DON'T get what you pay for, ESPECIALLY in these patreon "it's just general support, not a contract" type partnerships.

Oh yeah, for sure I agree there is a lot of assholes out there who do pray on people, but not us. Your comments to me read as if ascribing that practice to us and it's not the case. Ive said it before in this post already though and in the end it's not something either of us can prove one way or the other (if you do actually think we do that), so it's kind of pointless for us to fight over it. If you felt some kind of pressure to up your pledge to us, well for that I do apologize. If you thought it was s good idea and did it well that's great, if you felt it wasn't worth it after that does suck and we hope to one day make it feel like it was worth knowing you helped get us through to where we are at that point in time.

My words at the end are the opposite case though. In your example, those people really should know better after some time, they have some responsibility in it too, right? A dev who keeps taking money after quitting is an absolute shit and the worst participant in the situation, we are sworn allies on that one, but if the game hasn't updated in a year and you keep up your support you are enabling the scam. I feel bad for those folks, truly. I myself even bought dvds and blu-rays of tv shows with the slim hope they'd pull a Family Guy and get renewed on sales figures to no avail. I knew it wouldn't work but I had hope and I tried my part. I understand that feeling and I never want to do that to people.

But that's my point, people actually pay us to do what we love and we want to do them proud, but we can't do that without some level of support across the board. When people back us we we don't blue-ball blackmail them as I've said, we try make a better product month on month until we are really worth it in their eyes, but if people don't support the things they like they end up going away altogether... and which is better to back in the end, people trying to be better and worthy of your support (if not there yet) or somebody not showing themselves to you, who isn't consistent with news/content, who might pull a certain duality on you (if you catch my drift)?

Alternatively, if he has to do all that work anyways, why not have him work on side or bonus content for your main games? The stuff that is good enough can be added and the rest can be delivered and handled in any way you see fit, same as before. You have a serious problem with the community thinking you are unable to deliver an appreciable amount of content, so why not make little optimizations like this to improve it?

This falls under the same thing as above with the piece on Unshi's artworks. However, specifically on this one, it took Unshi 2 years of practice, then 2 years on the job to get to where he is. There's no guarantee Spook can make things has well as he can while our current projects are still running, if ever, and we don't want to introduce LQ knockoffs mid game and spoil the art. However, he'll never get anywhere if he doesn't try, so that's why we wanted a side thing to start on (as well as use it a that breathing effect above), but the main reason to even have him do any art is so we can try get more content producible a month. Believe us when we say it is a bother on us that we are limited so in that respect.

I WANT to like your game. It has some of the ingredients to be truly great. It is just missing others and they need to be discussed and taken seriously. No one else is really engaging in a way that is satisfying for me so I have taken it upon myself to be the villain in this case.

Well that is great to hear, and we want you to like it too. Thank you for the compliments, really. We'd like to believe we have those ingredients too. We agree with the idea that few people are giving us that butt kick we need at times and we appreciate it. We do take it seriously, and again I do personally apologize for taking the last round too stubbornly.

Worlder, I think this is the start of a productive friendship. We've just got to do less butting of heads and try this again from a more productive stance I think. Let's see if we can't make this live up to the hype we've spread and you saw in us... just don't expect it to all change over night, yeah?

Everyone else, feel free to join in and help too... as long as the butt kicking is constructive and not just trolling.

This game could be much bigger, better and well funded than it currently is. Please take everyone's feedback seriously and make as many of the compromises as you can as a creator. I have said my piece and am done for now. You are welcome to opt out of replying to this further unless you simply want to make a point to the community as a whole.

We do, that's why we're here after all. Let's do better, shall we?

I think a lesson to be learned here is if you pitch your game as offering content X, by the time you make it available to receive pledges, have at least SOME of content X available, and always add a little more of the focused content with each update.

Think- "will people be able to have an orgasm from the game's primary fetish with this update?" if the answer is no, don't release the update.

Imagine a game called Strippers in Paradise. For a year, you get to see no stripping, and not even any tropical weather- you get to see girls in Michigan who are gradually wearing more revealing clothes at the gym while they aren't making much money waiting tables. After a year, they are now working at Hooters and wearing slutty gym clothes, and in another year, they might move to Paradise or start stripping.

Better to have a paragraph saying, "these girls used to wait tables in Michigan and started working at Hooters to make more money. They hated the weather and wanted to make more money so they moved to Florida and started working at the strip club." Then the first beta has a scene at the strip club and the story can start.

I take your point sir, I get you. I fear sticking ntr content into every version from these still early parts is a bit too much of a pushing, but it's not unreasonable to expect the themes to become more prominent. We're already several version ahead written content wise (as we said though, even version's scene list is flexible to a degree) but with time we do expect to overcome this slump while we improve the game play too. Feel free to shout out some ideas and suggests to get the mood going, we might just be able to work as something spicy we've over looked in some time sooner.

When I mentioned all the women only going for women that wasn't serious. Sure i'd love it but it wouldn't make for a very interesting game, I know not everyone is into that and i'd never suggest it seriously.

As for why i'm here, both for the women and the story.

For started the character models and renders are gorgeous, it was worth going through the origins and this just for those.

As for the story, sure it isn't War and Peace and isn't set to be the next epic tale that lights the world but it's good.

Sometimes a simple story that shows the struggles of a group of people as they adapt to fit the world around them is more than enough to keep people hooked.

When you get a story like this it's told more through the characters than anything else and this has a good enough cast to carry a story.

Given options I doubt i'd have Noe turn into a cum hungry mega slut but i'll certainly enjoy watching her grow as a character and open up a bit more.

Ha... I wasn't quite serious about that options bit myself. It might be more accurate to say we have a bi-sexual (or a few) on the cast rather than lesbians, but lady-on-lady is good and will come up at least once for sure. I'm looking forward to putting a cheeky wrench in that "MFF 3some = Lesbian time!" trope when I can. Muhahaha!


Cheers for the kind words on both aspects. While "War and Peace" level is the ultimate goal one day (aim high and not just match the length of the story either!), I'm happy to know it's good as it is and hopefully better than some colleagues pieces, there are some dreks out there. Also, cool to know the girls are looking fine! It all holds together well, then we're doing something right... just need to do better...

 

[Avaron1974]

just need to do better...

Even at the top you can always do better.

The good thing here is you've made a great base to build up from.

Showing the girls in the origin stories was a great touch and gave us insight that would normally take several updates to reach and gave those 3 a chance to shine and build a following before being introduced to the main story.

Now the scene is set and things can build up from there. I don't just mean sexually I mean story wise too.

For sure you are already doing better than a lot of games on here in that regard. There are a lot of games on here with generic stories and bland characters so you have the advantage there.

The disadvantage is that also puts you up against stiff competition. Now it's up to you to prove to everyone you belong in the same conversation as those guys and girls.

 

[LexPro]

a tonns of text. Can anyone say me is there any porn content?

 

[Avaron1974]

a tonns of text. Can anyone say me is there any porn content?

It's more story based and character building. There are scenes but nothing heavy, I imagine that being built up to.

 

[Blayo]

The posts by BeWilder are a good reflection of their games, wall of text with close to zero content.

 

[bluedrakken]

if you want a story focus game you can make that, i'm highly disappointed for a remake with no sexual content and the text speed is so slow thats its trying to drag for the game time.

 

[Avaron1974]

if you want a story focus game you can make that, i'm highly disappointed for a remake with no sexual content and the text speed is so slow thats its trying to drag for the game time.

What remake?

There is this and 3 origin stories, I don't see a remake.

 

[bigpenniser]

One year. Still one character missing, added new one that does nothing (as everyone else to be fair). And then once you get to the only sex scene there is composed of 2 pics, the MC has weird ass nipples that look like vacuum cups.

Other than that, SO MUCH unnecessary text sill being added. I dont care if someones armpit itches. I thought this would be like this when I played the intro because it was, well, the intro, but its still exactly the same: A massive wall of text with some pics and no substance.

 

[Deleted member 1023239]

cheated save file no longer work

 

[jsas66]

Mine ended a few weeks after Frankie was hired. After the scene where she was taught to chop vegetables.

I can only speak for myself, but the game maybe should be changed to Hell's Kitchen or something, since the game is mostly focusing on running a diner. But keep in mind, you're promoting this on a site as a sexual/sensual/erotica type game, and there is very little of that in this concoction. The primary emphasis is reducing her debt and keeping other people's stress levels down. That doesn't make much of a sexual/sensual/erotica game to me.

I understand the need to be different and the importance of build up of a story. But after a year of promoting, developing and hyping the story, it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Example, when Kriem was hired, she tried on her outfit in front of the MC. There was a suggestive comment about the MC, it showed promise for a type of seduction/romance path. But after that scene, the path stalled. If that's what you want, fine...you'd have to pull very little content to turn this into a PG game.

 

[yoda123]

What I fail to understand is how three people working at full speed manage to produce so little in such a long time. It takes them two months to make 4-5 scenes (~40-50 renders), that's not even one render per day. Surely their equipment can't be that crappy. Maybe it's that "full speed" is defined differently in this beWilderverse of theirs, I don't know.

As a comparison, Philly produces 600-700 renders in the same ammount of time, and CheekyGimp 400-600, surely it wouldn't be too much to ask for at least 8-10 scenes per update.

 

[Deleted member 1023239]

What I fail to understand is how three people working at full speed manage to produce so little in such a long time. It takes them two months to make 4-5 scenes (~40-50 renders), that's not even one render per day. Surely their equipment can't be that crappy. Maybe it's that "full speed" is defined differently in this beWilderverse of theirs, I don't know.

As a comparison, Philly produces 600-700 renders in the same ammount of time, and CheekyGimp 400-600, surely it wouldn't be too much to ask for at least 8-10 scenes per update.

don't forget they work on other title too such as side story of NTR, Agent of Heels to be fair it just the same amount of the render like the other's but it all depend on your point of view.

 

[yoda123]

don't forget they work on other title too such as side story of NTR, Agent of Heels to be fair it just the same amount of the render like the other's but it all depend on your point of view.

They have claimed many times that the development of this game is in no way affected by their other game, I find that hard to believe, but if that is what they say they can't use that as an excuse not to provide reasonably sized updates.

 

[Wertikaizer]

use my save file then you can meet frankie
Slot 2 Noemi meet Frankie for the first time
Slot 8 Noemi fuck (+romance) with brad or give up on brad during foreplay(+nerve) its your choice
note : extract save file to the game folder

My end game stat : Romance 4, Nerve 3, Open Mind 5, Competitive : 5 Debt around 90k Little toscana Rep : Max, Salvatore Deli rep 0 Star

How did you get nerve 3?