Ren'Py Heavy Five [Ch.2RS] [Nottravis]

[TheDevian]

I consider both Fallout New Vegas and Fallout 4 to be better than Fallout 3. NV excells in storytelling and roleplaying. F4 has the best worldbuilding. I like Fallout 3, but it doesn't really stand out in anything for me.

I basically grew up on the first two Fallout games (first RPGs for me), and have played every game (including all spin-offs) in the series since.

Bad at it was compared to 1&2, I thought 3 was better than 4, they took out too many RPG mechanics by then. The be perfectly honest, the only thing enjoyed in 4 was building things (and Curie).

NV felt like Fallout 3 to me. I only played like an hour of it admittedly but meh. Fallout 4 had mroe fun gameplay but was kind of boring otherwise.

They had a lot in common, Obsidian was forced to used Beth's broken ass engine, and they were only given 18 months to make the entire game. Luckily they had access to the story for what was going to be Fallout 3, long before Bethesda bought the rights, and used a lot of that. Unlike 3, they added back in a lot of the missing RPG mechanics, weapons, added ammo types, and they did not rape the lore. I recommend getting it on pc, get the unofficial patch from nexus, and some nice sexy body mods, and give it another go. It is easily the best one of the new generation of them.
Though I would still suggest not using the quick save and save with the console. it's just safer....

 

[TomberryDude]

Bad at it was compared to 1&2, I thought 3 was better than 4, they took out too many RPG mechanics by then. The be perfectly honest, the only thing enjoyed in 4 was building things (and Curie).

They had a lot in common, Obsidian was forced to used Beth's broken ass engine, and they were only given 18 months to make the entire game. Luckily they had access to the story for what was going to be Fallout 3, long before Bethesda bought the rights, and used a lot of that. Unlike 3, they added back in a lot of the missing RPG mechanics, weapons, added ammo types, and they did not rape the lore. I recommend getting it on pc, get the unofficial patch from nexus, and some nice sexy body mods, and give it another go. It is easily the best one of the new generation of them.
Though I would still suggest not using the quick save and save with the console. it's just safer....

To make it clear. My main problem with F3 and NV is the gameplay is clunky and slow and it makes me wanna shoot myself. I do think F3 is probably a better RPG than F4. And I wish I could stand NV because I heard it's very good.

 

[I'm Not Thea Lundgren!]

Gumdrop always has a good reason explaining his delays. He just needs to finish two missing animations or so. There are always some reasons...

The inference that Notty is anything even remotely similar to Gumdrop is frankly disrespectful

Well, ok, but this doesn't change the fact I'm a bit disappointed.

You have every right to be disappointed, as does anyone else. But please look at what is happening with this game before making your decision.

I just wanted to be fair. I don't pay more than USD 5 for indie games. Usually it is about 1-2 USD. And I'm talking about finished game.
I would like to support Nottravis, but 10 chapters * 5 USD is too much for me. And that would be unfair to other developers.
But it seems that she needs about 12-22 months to finish this game. And to be honest, I am afraid that this is too much for me.

If you want to support Notty but don't want to do it every month, might I suggest that you wait until the game is completed, then make a one-off pledge in the final months of the development? That way you get the game and give your support at the same time.

 

[noname777]

Could I suggest you do me the courtesy of actually reading my post in full please before even suggesting any likeness to Gumdrop. Especially given the more than ample evidence of the improvements splattered over the last thirty pages or so.

Thank you.

I didn't say you were doing nothing. I am just saying that everyone has a reason for their delays. Some are more... convincing, some not. In my opinion, you have overestimated your performance and/or you focus too much on the details.
However, it doesn't change the fact that these delays are occurring and are likely to occur in the future.

 

[Akamari]

Can't blame Gumdrop (or Greono) for wanting to make the best possible release for us, can we?

Gumdrop always has a good reason explaining his delays. He just needs to finish two missing animations or so. There are always some reasons...

I really don't mean to offend you, but bringing up that scammer who hasn't released an update in 1 1/2 years while happily collecting money makes me question your "reasoning" to put it mildly.

Notty is more honest, fair and caring than any other dev I've seen. (What other dev would refund three months of illness to patrons, hm?) She is the most communicative dev on the site and very transparent about the development. I don't expect you to believe me, but the evidence is all around. You just need to look at it.

I just wanted to be fair. I don't pay more than USD 5 for indie games. Usually it is about 1-2 USD. And I'm talking about finished game.
I would like to support Nottravis, but 10 chapters * 5 USD is too much for me. And that would be unfair to other developers.
But it seems that she needs about 12-22 months to finish this game. And to be honest, I am afraid that this is too much for me.

You don't need to support her monthly. That's really only for those who want to support the dev to make the best of the project and not just pay for a game.

If you want you can just support her once in a while when you get to enjoy a new chapter for example, or just wait until the game is finished and then give what you feel is a fair amount for it. It's really up to you, every little bit helps.

 

[TheDevian]

To make it clear. My main problem with F3 and NV is the gameplay is clunky and slow and it makes me wanna shoot myself. I do think F3 is probably a better RPG than F4. And I wish I could stand NV because I heard it's very good.

I can understand that, some of it really is, especially when you have to go out exoploring when you want story, frankly, some of the places are hard to get to. That said, I am sure if you are interested enough, you can find mods to fix a lot of it.

I didn't say you were doing nothing. I am just saying that everyone has a reason for their delays. Some are more... convincing, some not. In my opinion, you have overestimated your performance and/or you focus too much on the details.
However, it doesn't change the fact that these delays are occurring and are likely to occur in the future.

While that is true to some degree, it is no different than almost every other team here, especially the newer ones who are doing it in addition to their full-time jobs, and it is also true that 2-3 months is far from an unreasonable average time for an update, given the circumstances.

While you are free to support what you want, that comparison was not even close to fair, when has Gumdrop given refunds or stopped payments due to not being able to deliver as intended?

 

[Akamari]

Bad at it was compared to 1&2, I thought 3 was better than 4, they took out too many RPG mechanics by then. The be perfectly honest, the only thing enjoyed in 4 was building things (and Curie).

Yes, as an RPG F4 is somewhat inferior. Dialogue system is awful ("your thoughts?" made me prefer to venture alone) and the main story is rather poor (Far Harbor DLC has pretty good one though). But I really love exploration (almost every location is different and interesting) and the building part you mentioned. "Rebuild the wasteland" is something I always wanted to do in a Fallout game and coupled with some mods it is possible here to a decent extent. For me F4 is an ultimate open world sandbox game rather than a story-focused RPG. I spent vastly more hours in it than any other Fallout or Elder Scrolls game.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

I am contrary to you freezing your patron page because you aren't taking a break from gaming development work. Hope your patrons are of the same mind Notty.

 

[TheDevian]

Yes, as an RPG F4 is somewhat inferior. Dialogue system is awful ("your thoughts?" made me prefer to venture alone) and the main story is rather poor (Far Harbor DLC has pretty good one though). But I really love exploration (almost every location is different and interesting) and the building part you mentioned. "Rebuild the wasteland" is something I always wanted to do in a Fallout game and coupled with some mods it is possible here to a decent extent. For me F4 is an ultimate open world sandbox game rather than a story-focused RPG. I spent vastly more hours in it than any other Fallout or Elder Scrolls game.

Can't argue with that,

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I am contrary to you freezing your patron page because you aren't taking a break from gaming development work. Hope your patrons are of the same mind Notty.

Exactly, you are still working, so it's only fair.

 

[noname777]

The inference that Notty is anything even remotely similar to Gumdrop is frankly disrespectful

I am really sorry. You are right, I should never compare Gumdrop with smaller developers. I didn't even realize that this would be so disrespectful to him.

I really don't mean to offend you, but bringing up that scammer who hasn't released an update in 1 1/2 years while happily collecting money makes me question your "reasoning" to put it mildly.

I tried to use hyperbole to highlight the problem of delays among various developers.

Notty is more honest, fair

I have never said otherwise.

(What other dev would refund three months of illness to patrons, hm?)

Not exactly the same, but Icstor stopped collecting funds for 3 months. He really has not been slacking. He just took 3 months of, after nonstop no breaks for years. And he didn't charge his patreons during those 3 months. But some people still said he is a scammer, and compared him to Gumdrop.

makes icstor look like a saint

He almost surpassed Gumdrop this time

Another Gumdrop?

Maybe he wants to be the next meme?
But Gumdrop still holds the championship belt...
The battle continues!

Gumdrop sindrom perform miracles at some Devs

He almost surpassed Gumdrop this time

Short and completely unnecessary x-mas update allows dev's to get lazy for few months. He learned from he best. Gumdrop. AKA "Milking Master"

60 1,2s loop animations in 4 months... LOOOL

He have more in common with Nergal, Gumdrop & Wootch (devs that are saying they have a burn out and continously delay updates)

On the other hand, I never said that Nottravis is a scammer or has "Gumdrop syndrome".
I'm just saying that she overestimated her capabilities. And probably she is focused too much on the details.
In my opinion, it is not necessary to re-render the current chapters. She said that after this game is completed, she is going to introduce a female MC and add new paths. Then there will be time for such improvement. But that's just my opinion.

 

[TheDevian]

In my opinion, it is not necessary to re-render the current chapters. She said that after this game is completed, she is going to introduce a female MC and add new paths. Then there will be time for such improvement. But that's just my opinion.

She felt that it was off-putting, and scaring away potential new players, and with the potential influx of new players due to the sex scenes being added next chapter, she wanted to put her best face forward. It's a timing thing. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[thebiggestfail]

I mean, the forums is an open invitation to opinions, no?

 

[Sinphil]

Well as far as opinions go it seems pretty unanimous quality over quantity wins.

 

[noname777]

She felt that it was off-putting, and scaring away potential new players, and with the potential influx of new players due to the sex scenes being added next chapter, she wanted to put her best face forward. It's a timing thing. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Do you know Greono, the author of Two Sides? At one point he changed the game mechanics and graphic style a bit.
But that was not enough for him. So he did a 3D remake. Unfortunately, nobody was happy with that.
He understood that this was a mistake. But instead of returning to the original idea, he did another remake.
Of course, you may notice some improvements. But was it worth the wait? I don't think so.
I wouldn't want Heavy Five to end up this way. Remakes in such games are not good for developers or players. Especially when they start before the game is finished, de facto inhibiting the whole development process.

 

[noname777]

Well as far as opinions go it seems pretty unanimous quality over quantity wins.

Please check out the Dual Family thread to see what people really think about it.
Caring for quality is good, but you have to find the golden mean.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Do you know Greono, the author of Two Sides? At one point he changed the game mechanics and graphic style a bit.
But that was not enough for him. So he did a 3D remake. Unfortunately, nobody was happy with that.
He understood that this was a mistake. But instead of returning to the original idea, he did another remake.
Of course, you may notice some improvements. But was it worth the wait? I don't think so.
I wouldn't want Heavy Five to end up this way. Remakes in such games are not good for developers or players. Especially when they start before the game is finished, de facto inhibiting the whole development process.

I get what you mean with it delaying the course of the game but comparing improving renders from chapter 1-2(and some of 3) with what Greono did is a bit too far, he is re-doing the game from the start for the third time.

 

[Nottravis]

vs

 

[Oddball2k]

The one post i spotted immediately in my first rapid glance at the thread, an important message from the Dev!

Thank you for letting us know about your progression to make the release of CH4 a complete success.

Wasn't too happy with that last render try so will park it for now.

Now then....

ON DATES....


So Four is finished as we know. Almost hit the end of August but the water stuff slowed me down a bit. But then came the remaster...

Now originally I was just going to do some of the Vanny interiors. the MC's room and the hallways which would have been around half of One, about a third of Two, a quarter of Three and, say, a tenth of Four. A lot of renders for sure but mostly fairly simple and not too demanding which meant I could do the end of September.

But, as a few of you suspected, once I started.....along came mission creep.

As i think now that i'm part of the "few", the happy few, i knew you were redoing almost... Everything!!!

For example the landing scene in One I wasn't going to touch but you've seen the remaster of that yesterday. How can I possibly settle for what's currently there when I can make it look like that? Would you?

Same goes for the movement system, the character idents when speaking, Vanguard on approach, Sarah's room etc etc. It's the difference between night and day. So now I'm remastering approx all of One, most of Two, about half of Three and I'm having to redo a good third of Four (Sarah's, the Mc's bedroom plus hallways in case you were wondering). I'm too scared to count them all but well over 1,200 renders is my guess.

It's a lot of very unfun work. Remember I'm a writer not an artist so the thought of having to do that many renders, especially old ones, isn't a fun activity for me. But it simply has to be done as part of the launch of Four.

"not an artist"??
The new landing scene, IMHO, is nothing more than an artistical touch to dynamize the scene with smoke and dust and the new view angle (from the ground) to enhance the effect! I don't even speak about the new sun angle, shadow etc...
"Not an artist"? let me... be respectful!

"having to do that many renders, especially old ones"
What worries me(and us,no?) the most is this part, to do repetitive tasks ad nauseam.

So how long and where does that leave us?

As to how long, I honestly don't know. On the upside a lot of the earlier renders were very simple in construct and so remastering them isn't taking that much render time. Certainly much less than when they were originally done with some taking around 15 minutes as opposed to the original hour. But certainly not September at any rate. Not now the workload has increased.

Hum, will the artistical touch strike again?
Time render estimation is futile... just express yourself, have a bit of fun and let the RH do the rest.

So what am I going to do?

I haven't entirely decided. I obvs need to make a call and let Patrons know asap for sure but I have a little while yet - but sooner rather than better for a host of reasons not least of all the value for money angle for them.

My current thoughts are very much to freeze the patron page, crack on with the work and unfreeze it when it's done. No one can deny I'm not working on the game of course (indeed arguably harder than ever before) but given that a lot of what I'm doing is in respect to older content, it's debatable how much benefit patrons get from this.

I'm also minded to release "Bored Pilot" to all current patrons this month as a separate download just so they'll have got something for the money this month. Of course they'll have to be a new BP for Four (oh the shame!) and McGruders one will also hit the PDA at the same time so the collection remains complete in game of course.

Anyhoo, I'll just leave this here for now. I welcome your thoughts as always before I make up my mind.

to be brief as i have to read the rest of the thread also(one day and night missed), my final thoughts:

DON'T freeze the patron page, let them choose individually... no pool required!

Brill idea to perhaps release the BP as a separate download(pdf file?)... McGruder, yeah!
A good way also to have more different chars in BP than the number of chaps would allowed.


One Adult Game to Rule them All.

 

[TheDevian]

Do you know Greono, the author of Two Sides? At one point he changed the game mechanics and graphic style a bit.
But that was not enough for him. So he did a 3D remake. Unfortunately, nobody was happy with that.
He understood that this was a mistake. But instead of returning to the original idea, he did another remake.
Of course, you may notice some improvements. But was it worth the wait? I don't think so.
I wouldn't want Heavy Five to end up this way. Remakes in such games are not good for developers or players. Especially when they start before the game is finished, de facto inhibiting the whole development process.

Nope, never heard of that game, but that's not what is happening here, nor is the Dual Family game, but you can look through and see for yourself, it is a clear improvement, and the delay is just a few weeks. I don't know about anyone else, but I have enough to keep me busy.

 

[noname777]

I get what you mean with it delaying the course of the game but comparing improving renders from chapter 1-2(and some of 3) with what Greono did is a bit too far, he is re-doing the game from the start for the third time.

I used exaggeration to highlight the problem. It always starts with "I need to improve two animations", and ends with "I must re-render all scenes to gain a better quality".
According to the original plan, we should see the final chapter next month. For the revised plan it was April 2020. Now we know that the 4th chapter will be released at the earliest in October and the whole game not before 2021.
That's a lot of time to wait. I'm afraid that too much for me.
I'm not ruling it out completely, but I think I will give it up for now.