Ren'Py Heavy Five [Ch.2RS] [Nottravis]

[DA22]

I mean, the forums is an open invitation to opinions, no?

Within reason, opinions are something else as rants though. Luckily no one here is ranting.

Do you know Greono, the author of Two Sides? At one point he changed the game mechanics and graphic style a bit.
But that was not enough for him. So he did a 3D remake. Unfortunately, nobody was happy with that.
He understood that this was a mistake. But instead of returning to the original idea, he did another remake.
Of course, you may notice some improvements. But was it worth the wait? I don't think so.
I wouldn't want Heavy Five to end up this way. Remakes in such games are not good for developers or players. Especially when they start before the game is finished, de facto inhibiting the whole development process.

I understand your fears, but Notty is Notty and also still a dev that is learning the craft. Even someone like Jack from Wicked Choices that has experience in Comics and Renderosity and has published a book before was surprised and got it wrong with the amount of time that a game like these take. Especially when you want to deliver quality. Notty is indeed not innocent of this.
Notty has improved a lot over the last year and she indeed has fallen for the trap of improving the game and when she started with that it was impossible for her, as was expected by me frankly having gotten to know her here a little, not to look at it all. Well at least the timing makes sense and it is something she now will have to get out of her system before she can be happy with the game. Do I fully agree with her no, does it matter No. It is her game and she is the dev that puts all the bloody hard work in. for that we get her best sides, but also that side that needs to do those improvements now. Notty is a real person and not perfectly innocent.
To me together with all her good sides as a dev but also as a caring person, that is a fair enough trade-off.

Please check out the Dual Family thread to see what people really think about it.
Caring for quality is good, but you have to find the golden mean.

Agreed with that but supporting a new dev also means they are still learning all these things, including their own capabilities, timings and so on, just like Notty being surprrised lewd scenes tend to take at least twice as long as normal scenes. . Also unfortunately you will never know until it is done whether it was worth it. She thinks it is, so I will support that decision and buy some handcuffs for when the urges tickle her again after chapter 6. (just teasing, only handcuffs will never be enough to stop her).

I used exaggeration to highlight the problem. It always starts with "I need to improve two animations", and ends with "I must re-render all scenes to gain a better quality".
According to the original plan, we should see the final chapter next month. For the revised plan it was April 2020. Now we know that the 4th chapter will be released at the earliest in October and the whole game not before 2021.
That's a lot of time to wait. I'm afraid that too much for me.
I'm not ruling it out completely, but I think I will give it up for now.

Notty def made a very wrong early assumption about development speed of the game. Then she thought she had shortened her workload by a lot by keeping the game manageable. Well until the end of the game will be for sure a reasonable long time to wait. Like I said above Notty is Notty and what makes the game special is what she puts into it both the good and less perfect, she will also need a break likely at some point and some vacation, other things real life throws up will delay things and so on. I suspect somewhere 2021 is a reasonably expectation, unless any of us becomes a billionaire and can afford to pay Notty a high monthly wage and offer her a super computer to concentrate on the game. Even then it would likely be second half of 2020 or early 2021 since she would get distracted by the new challenges the new shiny computer would offer. So yeah it may be wise to either wait for the end or give it a spin when shiny chapter 4 comes out. I will keep a copy of the old chapters though before rework.

Or to quote one of my old posts.
She is and she has def improved on the composition part besides the lighting. no stopping her now, just relax, sit back and keep your towel and copy of the guide ready and most of all: DO NOT PANIC !!!

 

[noname777]

Nope, never heard of that game, but that's not what is happening here, nor is the Dual Family game, but you can look through and see for yourself, it is a clear improvement, and the delay is just a few weeks. I don't know about anyone else, but I have enough to keep me busy.

To be honest, I'm not convinced by all these improvements. Sometimes I can clearly see the improvement, but sometimes I wonder which version is the fixed one. This was the case in the example above.
https://f95zone.to/threads/heavy-five-ch-3-v1-2-nottravis.23184/post-2415272

Now, please take a look at this:

And compare it this this:

This is a huge improvement.

What she does now is only minor changes. It is not like she is replacing Genesis 2 with Genesis 8 or something.
Anyway, my point is that the current chapters (at least the first one) are good enough and they don't need to be redone (well, maybe except the broken paths, but this can be fixed later).

 

[Oddball2k]

I thought Boob-off time would be at earliest in chapter 5 or 6? No kidding, looking lovely even if most of us might never see the surroundings.

It's a booby trap... eh, what surroundings??

Might be worth a little look at what's in the lounge...

Still no completely sure if i may visit it?!
The written commentaries on the lounge advertiser have something to do with that!

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Well there is the poster in the hallway too!

Yeah yeah, the commented one... i'm scared!

She is and she has def improved on the composition part besides the lighting. no stopping her now, just relax, sit back and keep your towel and copy of the guide ready and most of all: DO NOT PANIC !!!

, nice one!

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I'm late, i'm late... can't do anymore quotes!

*Toodles*

 

[Huitieme]

I used exaggeration to highlight the problem. It always starts with "I need to improve two animations", and ends with "I must re-render all scenes to gain a better quality".
According to the original plan, we should see the final chapter next month. For the revised plan it was April 2020. Now we know that the 4th chapter will be released at the earliest in October and the whole game not before 2021.
That's a lot of time to wait. I'm afraid that too much for me.
I'm not ruling it out completely, but I think I will give it up for now.

Well, that's completely your choice and I can understand your disappointment in having to wait just because the dev decided to remake parts of the game you've already played through. In a way, it's also a compliment as you wouldn't feel that way if you didn't care at all. That being said, delays do happen, for whatever reasons. Sometimes, the dev gets sick (like Notty did a few months back), sometimes they get bored with the game (I don't think this will happen here), sometimes, they're just scammers and run toward the setting sun with thousands of dollars (this one I'm positive will never ever happen with Notty).

If you do feel cheated, just remember that the game is in an early stage, and any date estimation made by the dev in that case, especially when said dev works alone, is at best an optimist guess. AAA games get delayed all the time. It could be because the early graphics are not up to part with the latest ones, but we don't know, because we don't have the same kind of relationship we can have here with Notty.

What I'm trying to say is, if you do think you'd rather leave the game aside for a few and come back when more chapters are done, do so. If you think the remaster is a useless waste of time, that's your opinion as well. But don't forget that ultimately, we're either pirates with very few means to force a dev, or patrons with only financial means to force an artist down a path. If you disagree with her way of doing things, the first step is telling her, like you did, but that's also the last step for a lot of us. Insisting that what she's doing is useless might be counterproductive, though, and just lead someone less strong than Notty to completely stop working on the game (this is also an exaggeration made for the sake of the example).

All that being said, cheers mate. If you decide to put the game aside for an extended period of time, you'll be welcomed back whenever you want

 

[TheDevian]

To be honest, I'm not convinced by all these improvements. Sometimes I can clearly see the improvement, but sometimes I wonder which version is the fixed one. This was the case in the example above.
https://f95zone.to/threads/heavy-five-ch-3-v1-2-nottravis.23184/post-2415272

Now, please take a look at this:

And compare it this this:

This is a huge improvement.

What she does now is only minor changes. It is not like she is replacing Genesis 2 with Genesis 8 or something.
Anyway, my point is that the current chapters (at least the first one) are good enough and they don't need to be redone (well, maybe except the broken paths, but this can be fixed later).

No, she replaced her video card, and is now able to render the the full scenes in one shot, rather than layers, which allows the lighting to affect everything, making it a much more complete scene.

We understand your fears, I feel the same way about a lot of 'signs' when I see them. We can't all support every game, you have to pick and choose, if you feel uncomfortable about it, stop for a while and see how it goes. No one is going to think less of you. Most of us have seen enough from her to trust that it will be worth the wait, but if you don't, cool. give it time.

 

[TomberryDude]

To be honest, I'm not convinced by all these improvements. Sometimes I can clearly see the improvement, but sometimes I wonder which version is the fixed one. This was the case in the example above.
https://f95zone.to/threads/heavy-five-ch-3-v1-2-nottravis.23184/post-2415272

Now, please take a look at this:

And compare it this this:

This is a huge improvement.

What she does now is only minor changes. It is not like she is replacing Genesis 2 with Genesis 8 or something.
Anyway, my point is that the current chapters (at least the first one) are good enough and they don't need to be redone (well, maybe except the broken paths, but this can be fixed later).

Not to be rude or anything but what matters most is that the creator is satisfied with their work. I get being disappointed shit takes a long time but immediately assuming the worst of dev who may not have the experience needed to judge how much work or time is gonna go into their game is unfair in my opinion.

 

[DA22]

To be honest, I'm not convinced by all these improvements. Sometimes I can clearly see the improvement, but sometimes I wonder which version is the fixed one. This was the case in the example above.
https://f95zone.to/threads/heavy-five-ch-3-v1-2-nottravis.23184/post-2415272

Now, please take a look at this:

And compare it this this:

This is a huge improvement.

What she does now is only minor changes. It is not like she is replacing Genesis 2 with Genesis 8 or something.
Anyway, my point is that the current chapters (at least the first one) are good enough and they don't need to be redone (well, maybe except the broken paths, but this can be fixed later).

You might be completely and utterly right (debatable though), but still it does not matter one bit. It is what Notty feels is necessary, that counts in the end. One of the little lessons I learned in life over the years is that reason never wins over feelings, once those feelings are there.

 

[noname777]

Even someone like Jack from Wicked Choices that has experience in Comics and Renderosity and has published a book before was surprised and got it wrong with the amount of time that a game like these take. Especially when you want to deliver quality.

I miss this game too. More and more games I'm interested in are being abandoned, have huge delays between updates or are following a path that doesn't appeal to me.
For example:

• Dual Family - I can't say it's a bad game. I stopped playing it when it turned out that the old save does not work after an update. Everybody know the current situation.
• View of family - It promised to be good at the beginning, but later I had mixed feelings. Again, broken saves and long time to wait for next update turned me off.
• Two Sides - Remake of the remake, with more bugs than the original game ever has. I see improvement in quality, but the long wait time kills the desire to play for me.
• Wicked choices - Long time to wait...
• Urban Voyeur - Great game, but you have to wait several months for an update. To be honest, I no longer have the strength to go through the game after each update to discover all new threads.
• The Story Of The Survival Of John Smith - From the beginning I had mixed feelings, but generally I liked this game. It was abandoned before I finished it.
• Big Brother - Same as above.
• Gates Motel - I liked the first release, but was disappointed by the first update, where MC turned into a complete weirdo.
• Pandora's Box - I had mixed feelings after the update because of forced NTR/rape scene.
• Latest Tlaero's game - To hard for me. OK, to be honest, I didn't like the idea of splitting games into chapters, knowing how demanding her games are.

There are even more games I almost forgot because of the lack of updates.

 

[Akamari]

I wouldn't want Heavy Five to end up this way. Remakes in such games are not good for developers or players. Especially when they start before the game is finished, de facto inhibiting the whole development process.

That's not what Notty is doing. This is a remaster, not a remake. The game mechanics, the story, the characters, the engine...none of it is changed. The game plays the same. It's only the renders that get visually improved because Notty has gained experience and with a better card she doesn't have to do compromises she had to do earlier. There is a big difference between Chapter One and Chapter Four in terms of render quality.

There is also a matter of consistency as the station gets much better visual design. You can't have it look shabby in Chapters Two and Three, and then all nice and clean in Chapter Four. Well, you can, but it could disrupt the immersion.

According to the original plan, we should see the final chapter next month. For the revised plan it was April 2020. Now we know that the 4th chapter will be released at the earliest in October and the whole game not before 2021.

Do the math please. With two months per chapter it's summer or fall of 2020 for the finished game.

The Chapter production has always been around six weeks. Both Chapter Three and Four have extraordinary circumstances causing the release to take longer.

Episodic releases are not for everyone. There are games where I just prefer to get the game when it's finished. For example I'm waiting for Episode 5 of Life is Strange 2 to drop before picking it up, so that I can play it without waiting. There is nothing wrong in doing the same with Heavy Five. But the difference (aside from a studio vs single dev) is that LiS 2 has the funding, so it can be sold the usual way, while H5 has to rely on crowdfunding to reach it's potential. It's up to you to choose an active role or a passive one.

 

[noname777]

Do the math please. With two months per chapter it's summer or fall of 2020 for the finished game.

That is what I am doing right now. Three months per chapter will give us the final release in mid 2021.
Oct 2019 - Chapter 4
Jan 2020 - Chapter 5
Apr 2020 - Chapter 6
Jul 2020 - Chapter 7
Oct 2020 - Chapter 8
Jan 2021 - Chapter 9
Apr 2021 - Chapter 10
Jul 2021 - Additional paths, female MC

The Chapter production has always been around six weeks. Both Chapter Three and Four have extraordinary circumstances causing the release to take longer.

It isn't is just 6 weeks, because we always have some delays.

Episodic releases are not for everyone. There are games where I just prefer to get the game when it's finished. For example I'm waiting for Episode 5 of Life is Strange 2 to drop before picking it up, so that I can play it without waiting. There is nothing bad in doing the same with Heavy Five. But the difference (aside from a studio vs single dev) is that LiS 2 has the funding, so it can be sold the usual way, while H5 has to rely on crowdfunding to reach it's potential. It's up to you to choose an active role or a passive one.

You're right, I prefer finished games instead of episodic ones. But it's not like I reject them completely. For example, I liked Chloe18. But there we had updates every month for a long time.

 

[DA22]

That is what I am doing right now. Three months per chapter will give us the final release in mid 2021.
Oct 2019 - Chapter 4
Jan 2020 - Chapter 5
Apr 2020 - Chapter 6
Jul 2020 - Chapter 7
Oct 2020 - Chapter 8
Jan 2021 - Chapter 9
Apr 2021 - Chapter 10
Jul 2021 - Additional paths, female MC


It isn't is just 6 weeks, because we always have some delays.


You're right, I prefer finished games instead of episodic ones. But it's not like I reject them completely. For example, I liked Chloe18. But there we had updates every month for a long time.

Times and expected render quality and wish for animations has changed though, one could blame philly and a few other devs for that. Unfortunately those do take time though and you see that actually none of the stronger devs around here is able to do monthly updates anymore, unless they do very small updates. Well Jack also has had some serious shit hitting the fan combined with the realization he was missing a part of the story he wanted to tell. It will come when it is ready, but yeah he is also busy working on how he will be able to speed up process in the future since he underestimated the workload.

Edit: Considering the delays, yeah the fact Notty is a bit of a perfectionist will make some extra delays quite likely now and in the future. One might hope she will get better at letting go when the work is ready, but no guarantees of that.

 

[Akamari]

That is what I am doing right now. Three months per chapter

*sighs* Two months. I feel like I'm in an endless loop of repeating myself. Chapter Four is finished. It could have been released last week. That means it would had been 7 weeks between releases if Notty had not decided to remaster.

What makes you think it will be three months regularly? It doesn't make sense.

It isn't is just 6 weeks, because we always have some delays.

I was talking about production time. I give it two months to account for testing, fixing and overcoming any challenges that might appear.

 

[Akamari]

Edit: Considering the delays, yeah the fact Notty is a bit of a perfectionist will make some extra delays quite likely now and in the future. One might hope she will get better at letting go when the work is ready, but no guarantees of that.

No release dates, no delays. She's an ambitious lass (yet reasonable, just look at how much stuff gets shuffled between chapters) and I always want to play what she wants us to play. The fact that she can make a decision to resist the pressure and work out the quirks even when it would make more sense to rush the release from a business standpoint is something I find very appealing and I hope that will never change.

 

[noname777]

*sighs* Two months. I feel like I'm in an endless loop of repeating myself. Chapter Four is finished. It could have been released last week. That means it would had been 7 weeks between releases if Notty had not decided to remaster.

Yeah, chapter 4 is "finished", but won't be released anyway. Just like Part X of Dual Family was "coming soon" in June.
Again, I am not saying that Nottravis is a scammer, but H5 always has some delays. Regardless of the reasons and how much Nottravis tries to be a good producer, they still occur.

What makes you think it will be three months regularly? It doesn't make sense.

She failed to reach any deadline. Sorry Nottravis, but that's how it looks like. Anyway, what makes you think that it will change suddenly?

In future chapters there will probably be more sex scenes, so there will be animations that are more demanding.
What's more, there will be more and more paths that need to be done, so the chapters will contain similar content for each thread. However, it takes time to do this.

I was talking about production time. I give it two months to account for testing, fixing and overcoming any challenges that might appear.

If two months were enough, then we would already have chapter 5 released.
Jan 2019 - Chapter 1
Mar 2019 - Chapter 2
May 2019 - Chapter 3
Jul 2019 - Chapter 4
Sep 2019 - Chapter 5

 

[DA22]

Yeah, chapter 4 is "finished", but won't be released anyway. Just like Part X of Dual Family was "coming soon" in June.
Again, I am not saying that Nottravis is a scammer, but H5 always has some delays. Regardless of the reasons and how much Nottravis tries to be a good producer, they still occur.


She failed to reach any deadline. Sorry Nottravis, but that's how it looks like. Anyway, what makes you think that it will change suddenly?

In future chapters there will probably be more sex scenes, so there will be animations that are more demanding.
What's more, there will be more and more paths that need to be done, so the chapters will contain similar content for each thread. However, it takes time to do this.


If two months were enough, then we would already have chapter 5 released.
Jan 2019 - Chapter 1
Mar 2019 - Chapter 2
May 2019 - Chapter 3
Jul 2019 - Chapter 4
Sep 2019 - Chapter 5

Both yours and Akamari's standpoints are fair enough. For me, like I said before the quality of the work and Notty's openness is good enough that I will accept the good with the bad and want to support this game, that is why I upped my pledge from USD 5 to USD 15 yesterday, knowing full well that the delay was a certainty to show that support. Now everyone has to draw his or her own conclusions and is free to give his/her/its own opinion and Notty also asked for this, but in the end it is Notty who is the driving force behind this game in all her good, great and slightly less perfect facets whatever we say.

 

[Akamari]

Yeah, chapter 4 is "finished", but won't be released anyway.

Maybe you can consider the why not of it? Notty wrote quite lengthy posts about that.

She failed to reach any deadline. Sorry Nottravis, but that's how it looks like. Anyway, what makes you think that it will change suddenly?

There are no deadlines. Estimates are not deadlines.

In future chapters there will probably be more sex scenes, so there will be animations that are more demanding.

There won't be animations. There are six sex scenes in Chapter Four.

What's more, there will be more and more paths that need to be done, so the chapters will contain similar content for each thread. However, it takes time to do this.

Chapters Three and Four are twice as big as Chapter One (yet still took less than two months to make). Growth is to be expected as Notty upgrades her rig.

If two months were enough, then we would already have chapter 5 released.
Jan 2019 - Chapter 1
Mar 2019 - Chapter 2

Chapter Two was released in mid February, six weeks after Chapter One.

As I said before, you should take the circumstances into account.

 

[DA22]

Maybe you can consider the why not of it? Notty wrote quite lengthy posts about that.


There are no deadlines. Estimates are not deadlines.


There won't be animations. There are six sex scenes in Chapter Four.


Chapters Three and Four are twice as big as Chapter One (yet still took less than two months to make). Growth is to be expected as Notty upgrades her rig.


Chapter Two was released in mid February, six weeks after Chapter One.

As I said before, you should take the circumstances into account.

Well the reason not to release chapter 4 already to her patrons unfortunately does make sense and I am pretty sure indeed it would leak and as such would undermine one of the main reasons for the upgrading of the chapters, whether Notty is right in her assumptions on that or not. . Sad but true.

 

[TomberryDude]

I still think our pal noname is blowing shit out of proportion. It's not like Notty has disappeared for months with that sweet patreon money to get licked by gogo boys while people wait for her game.

S'all good, man.

 

[noname777]

Maybe you can consider the why not of it? Notty wrote quite lengthy posts about that.

I will say it again: She overestimated her performance and/or is focused too much on the details. And so it is every time.

There are no deadlines. Estimates are not deadlines.

Would you say the same in the Dual Family thread?
Yes, I know, Notty refunds the money. But delays are delays.

There won't be animations. There are six sex scenes in Chapter Four.

If I good remember, at the begging she opted for animations, and later she gave up, because there are time consuming. She may still change her mind several times.

Chapters Three and Four are twice as big as Chapter One (yet still took less than two months to make). Growth is to be expected as Notty upgrades her rig.

And more waiting time is expected than at the beginning.

Chapter Two was released in mid February, six weeks after Chapter One.

And as you said, chapter size increases with each update. It can therefore be expected that the work will take more time.

As I said before, you should take the circumstances into account.

I'm doing it right now. And I assume that if there is such a delay at the beginning, then there will be even more in the future.

 

[noname777]

I still think our pal noname is blowing shit out of proportion. It's not like Notty has disappeared for months with that sweet patreon money to get licked by gogo boys while people wait for her game.

S'all good, man.

I never accused her of milking her patreons.
I'm just saying that she made a bad estimate of the time needed to release the chapter. It won't be one month, but rather three months.