Unity Abandoned Legend of Krystal: Rebirth [v0.8] [LOK Team]

[Ion.TemUS]

It was a simple enough game.

The issue is they want to make it so much more. Which isnt a problem when it actually works and doesnt take 5 years. But how that shapes out remains to be seen.

But yea. Good Luck. Sincerely

 

[MightyAltroll]

It was a simple enough game.

The issue is they want to make it so much more. Which isnt a problem when it actually works and doesnt take 5 years. But how that shapes out remains to be seen.

But yea. Good Luck. Sincerely

Rome was not built in a day, as I have said a thousand times, patience will be rewarded. There has never been, nor will ever be, a game like the one we are making. If you want to see it, then support us, it is as simple as that. There is nothing more I can do to alleviate your fears than tell you if funding remains constant, the game will be finished eventually with the level of detail and vision we have planned. The only possible ways that this project can fail are: A) Devs spontaneously die/quit mid production and replacements are impossible B) Funding stops.

It may take a while to get made, yes. How long? I don't know. However it will be made. You cannot rush perfection, and we are perfectionists in our art.

 

[156_163_146_167]

How long has it been now since the restart of this project? And how long will we still have to wait until there is anything at all to play. Having something that potential buyers can play for themselves and see potential in would be a good way to earn new backers. I don't want to gamble by backing this project now without a good enough indication that the current team is up to the task. Especially with the current history of scrapping the previous work that this Patreon account was funding.

 

[Phanatic]

It may take a while to get made, yes. How long? I don't know. However it will be made. You cannot rush perfection, and we are perfectionists in our art.

And that is an awfull thing. Ask any artist - perfectionism is a curse. Instead of making a decent product in an adequate amount of time and moving onto the next piece, perfectionist will work on little details that most of the public won't even see. Quality is a good thing, but everyone should know when its time to stop.

Currently your agenda is "We don't know when it will be done, bu we need funding" - what a comfortable place to be in, huh? I wish every job could provide you with limitless amount of time to do anything at all, because you know - perfectionism.
It doesn't work this way. This is why companies and firmas have deadlines - to make sure that a specific task can be done up to a specific date. And you should too. They don't have to be exact, since most of the deadlines can be wrong, but this way at least your community can wait up to something by a specific date, unlike now - when everything is just in question.
There are a huge amount of posts around assuring us that your team is now bigger and stronger (some people end up even saying that your team now is actually 11 people), but you still keep saying the same no-deadlined thing over and over. Stop it. If you are professional - then act as one and start giving us dates if you want to be supported.

And please stop saying that perfectionist mumbo-jumbo. It really makes you look amateur.

 

[156_163_146_167]

And that is an awfull thing. Ask any artist - perfectionism is a curse. Instead of making a decent product in an adequate amount of time and moving onto the next piece, perfectionist will work on little details that most of the public won't even see. Quality is a good thing, but everyone should know when its time to stop.

I wholeheartedly agree! I have trouble letting go of my perfectionism, which is a real burden when you're doing something that's not just for yourself. So in this instance, where real people paying real money expecting a product are involved, you better not strive for perfection. In fact, I will as far as saying that perfectionism can lead to serious mental health problems, because it certainly has played a role in doing so for me.

People will complain when you miss a deadline. But people will complain more if you never even release anything at all while still syphoning their money. Set deadlines. Make a plan to release something, anything at all as soon as you can.

 

[MightyAltroll]

And that is an awfull thing. Ask any artist - perfectionism is a curse. Instead of making a decent product in an adequate amount of time and moving onto the next piece, perfectionist will work on little details that most of the public won't even see. Quality is a good thing, but everyone should know when its time to stop.

Currently your agenda is "We don't know when it will be done, bu we need funding" - what a comfortable place to be in, huh? I wish every job could provide you with limitless amount of time to do anything at all, because you know - perfectionism.
It doesn't work this way. This is why companies and firmas have deadlines - to make sure that a specific task can be done up to a specific date. And you should too. They don't have to be exact, since most of the deadlines can be wrong, but this way at least your community can wait up to something by a specific date, unlike now - when everything is just in question.
There are a huge amount of posts around assuring us that your team is now bigger and stronger (some people end up even saying that your team now is actually 11 people), but you still keep saying the same no-deadlined thing over and over. Stop it. If you are professional - then act as one and start giving us dates if you want to be supported.

And please stop saying that perfectionist mumbo-jumbo. It really makes you look amateur.

Ah, and how soon until we're EA? There needs to be balance between quality and speed. How smooth do you want an animation? What resolution do you want an image? How in depth do you want a quest? How well thought out do you want your mechanics? How many bugs do you want there to be? How good of a game do you want?

Do you think that I am not aware of people's patience when I received constant complaining about such things? Do you think me an imbecile? We are perfectionists within reason, not lunatics. However, we are all artists of our own trades. We take pride in our work, and would not release garbage just because some people can't be patient.

The team is precisely 5, with an artist providing us unpaid work for the environment/concept art. I'm not giving you a date, because I am not certain of when it will be finished myself, progress is slow due to the nature of the animations and models. You want good animations? You want multiple poses for sex? This is what must be done, and we're doing all of the ground work up front.

Now, since you're going to insult my intelligence and the standards of the team, allow me to ask you how many games you know of that give release dates within the first months of production? They don't know, you don't know, and I don't know. No one knows, all I can do is give probabilities and educated guesses. If you wanted to be an informed human being and member of our community, you could make a slight effort to view the streams, and speak to the devs on their progress, in which case you would likely come to the same rough conclusion that work is being done, and that the project will take form soon.

I have made an effort, despite my displeasure of coming here, to set the record straight, inform the people here, make myself available, and offer answers to those that want them about the game we're developing. I have no interest to come to these forums to read incessant ill-informed whining, especially when it results in my team being insulted. Let me make this very clear, I do not mind constructive criticism, advice, or complaints. However I'm so very tired of having to correct people's own random hearsay they come up with, nor do I enjoy listening to people act like they have any inkling as to what it takes to develop a game, and turn my team into caricatures, claiming to know what we're planning/thinking better than we do.

I wholeheartedly agree! I have trouble letting go of my perfectionism, which is a real burden when you're doing something that's not just for yourself. So in this instance, where real people paying real money expecting a product are involved, you better not strive for perfection. In fact, I will as far as saying that perfectionism can lead to serious mental health problems, because it certainly has played a role in doing so for me.

People will complain when you miss a deadline. But people will complain more if you never even release anything at all while still syphoning their money. Set deadlines. Make a plan to release something, anything at all as soon as you can.

Deadlines only work if you have a rough estimate of how long it will take to complete a set of work. I could set a random arbitrary deadline for Archie to complete his rigging/meshing/weighting/animating, but it's just going to be missed, because there is so much variation in the length of time the tasks require, so many things can happen. You can watch his stream, he is working as best as he can, as quickly as he can. He is far more experienced in animation than I am, and it is not my place to tell him how to do his job. Especially when he is experimenting with techniques that even he, as a professional in the industry, is unfamiliar with. I expect only that he do it to the best of his ability, which, as far as I can see, he is.

What, pray tell, is the alternative? Were you in my position what would you do? Threaten to fire him if he doesn't reach a deadline? How do you even gauge where to set the deadline?

 

[156_163_146_167]

Deadlines only work if you have a rough estimate of how long it will take to complete a set of work.

So that means you have no clue at all how long things will take? How can that be with at least two people having experience with the last iteration of this game and others that were talked of as professionals? Surely you don't go to work every day without a clue what you need to do and how long you'll be working on that thing. You must have some goal in mind. And if you do, I think you should shrink that goal so you can set a deadline.

I could set a random arbitrary deadline for Archie to complete his rigging/meshing/weighting/animating, but it's just going to be missed, because there is so much variation in the length of time the tasks require, so many things can happen.

Then do that. Set a deadline. See if you can estimate how long something takes and keep records of how long it actually takes. That way you develop your ability to plan ahead and become more familiar with your working tempo. It's not strange for deadlines to be missed and estimates to be off early on in the project. But if you don't start setting deadlines and planning now, when will you?

You can watch his stream, he is working as best as he can, as quickly as he can.

I have not expressed doubts that he isn't. But setting goals and deadlines and keeping track of how long you spend on certain tasks gives you insight in how to work more efficiently. There are always things you can improve on or things you never realized take as long as they do that you don't know about.

it is not my place to tell him how to do his job.

I am not saying that you specifically should tell him that he should be finished with task X by date Y. Instead talk together as a team to figure out what you can achieve in a certain period of time. A month or two weeks for example. It doesn't have to be a lot. But planning in short bursts gives you perspective of the whole project and can improve morale, because you see that things are getting done.

Especially when he is experimenting with techniques that even he, as a professional in the industry, is unfamiliar with.

Right. Another reason to set deadlines and do timeboxing. If you don't set a limit on how long someone can experiment with whatever new technology they're looking into, how or when do they know that they should move on and make a decision on what to work with? As an example, if you were to task me with finding out some library or framework to use for a certain task, would you still let me do my research for as long as I please? Instead of trying to find out every bit of information about the potential frameworks and libraries to use for weeks on end, set a cut off point at a few days for instance. At that point you'll probably have enough information to come to a conclusion and further research won't change the outcome much. I think this is another area where you need to set aside your perfectionism for the good of your customers.

I expect only that he do it to the best of his ability, which, as far as I can see, he is.

Can you tell me what exactly you mean with doing something to the best of your abilities? Does this also include spending as much time on it as he pleases, or does it mean that he works efficiently rather than at 100% effectiveness.

What, pray tell, is the alternative? Were you in my position what would you do? Threaten to fire him if he doesn't reach a deadline? How do you even gauge where to set the deadline?

Hopefully the things I've talked about above give you some idea. If you don't have any clue how to gauge where to set a deadline now, what makes you think that you will be able to in the future? If I was a potential backer, and I guess I am, I would want to know what your plans for the future are and how you will prevent the game from getting into a development hell leading to its abandonment.

 

[BonelessSlayerUwU]

Y u all so angry

 

[156_163_146_167]

Y u all so angry

I can only speak for myself obviously, but I'm not angry. I want to help to the best of my abilities to try to make this project a success. The things I'm reading do not give me hope, and the attitude of their community manager is not making it easier for me to not like them. I sincerely hope they can change my outlook in the future.

 

[Phanatic]

A lot of stuff

Stop being a child and inform yourself first.


I've been in your communtiy before the revamp. I've been through all of the shit that's been giving to your team when Abel had personal crysis. I've been constantly supporting the team through and through on this site and on others. When others gave shit about Abel's problems- I was there to support him and Kuja and make assure others that it will stop, I was there until the very end.
Now you dare to call me uninformed while hiding behind the crying vale of "oof, I deal with so much shit" since the revamp started. But every single time you are given shit - you are given it for all the goals that you made out of the blue. Instead of listening to people who have ectuall game dev expirience you continue to do all the same shit and getting the same shit back, still not understanding that if you don't change yourself first, nothing will change around you neither.
You set yourself up to be a communtiy managerr, but you constantly cry about it. You've been doing this for what? 2 montths now? And you still haven't changed a damn thing.

Being a community manager is tough, but you should've known that, since you were with the project from the start. But now when you have problems on your shoulders you just whine and whine. Have you ever thought that maby its not your thing and someone else should do this job?
Your writing is solid and I've seen how much work you put in your world-building, but managing communtiy seems to be not your thing - you are too damn fragile to do that.


I no longer come to Discord because of all of that whining of yours and your communtiy that behave yourself like vultures, playing with your corpses, laughing your asses of people who just want a normal (not an astonishing game, but a normal game). It was and it still is a miserable show to watch every time you discuss there any criticism thrown in your way. Fanboys existed and still exist and you relish in their support, while people who say adequate things being shitted on. It sickens me.

You have around 4-5 additional moderators and colalborators in discord. If its such a big chore for you to come here - make responsible someone else. Someone who can resist the cringe, who doesn't answer "well go play something else then" to your potential customers.



Also heres a surprise - you are not the one to pinpoint deadlines. People who are responsible for their part of the job do that. Ask Archie when animations are going to be done, ask him how long will it take to learn them, ask Gizmo how long will he develop additional mechanics for the engine, how long will it take to implement them - THEY are the ones who tell you their deadlines, not you. You simply should tell communtiy what THEY told you about the deadlines and not make up thigns in your mind yourself, it makes no sense.

They claim to be professionals, so as professionals they HAVE to know how to estimate rough amount of time to deliver whether studying the mechincs, executing them or implementing them. They should be capabale of doing that. All you have to do is ask and tell your communtiy what THEY said.


You can be as narcissistic as you want irl, but this "We are making a game that wasn't made nor will ever be" is such a horse shite to tell anywone at all as a Development Team representative. How do you damn know it will never be done? Have you seen a future or something? What if you do an amazing game, very popular, very successfull and other people will catch your drift and do the same? No? You will limit them to do that? What is all that talk about being the high epithomy of hentai game development? Where does it come from? Why won't you be a little bit more modest about it? It sends such a negative reaction from you, please dont do that.



Once way or another you should act as a professional and not a little kid. I know that its frustrating, but behaving yourself as a face of YOUR OWN PROJECT is a must to a Comunity Manager, which you are. You call others uninformed but you yourself don't make any research about people who follow you or support/supported you, which is fine, but you shouldn't throw words in the air trying to show yourself as a victim. Its your damn job that you ranked yourself t obe CM so deal with it with dignity.

If you want more support - start acting professional and drop that self-indulgent nuisance about making the most unique of all hentai games ever existed - be modest, people will appreciate that.

 

[No.Name00]

I can only speak for myself obviously, but I'm not angry. I want to help to the best of my abilities to try to make this project a success. The things I'm reading do not give me hope, and the attitude of their community manager is not making it easier for me to not like them. I sincerely hope they can change my outlook in the future.

Nope. You do not help. You whole meaning is only would be true if they have an already set plan for working ahead of them. Which they don't have because they are still in the asset creating phase. Even big game creating companies would not set a deadline before they could reach the point where it has any meaning. Sure, they have a vague idea, but, after the whole model remaking after the arguments about feet and getting a more than month worth of delay, they got to the conclusion that it would be meaningless to set a deadline since anything could come up. So, no, setting a deadline is not a security or a good thing every time. And pestering them with one over and over again is not helping them. Not at all. If you want help them, than provide good ideas, and if you have complains than you should state them, but never, never want, or even just try to tell them how they should manage their time or how should they work. You are not their boss and not their employer. As not any of us. At most, we are supporters that give money to them, so we have some privileges. But nothing more. And we will never be more. As for the one that have any kind of problem, with me, or with them, either go and say it straightforwardly in the discord, not just start to bitchin in this site, witch should have set some rules long time ago to regulate certain people. Or shut up and don't expect that any one would care about your problems.

 

[156_163_146_167]

You whole meaning is only would be true if they have an already set plan for working ahead of them.

What reason is there for not setting any deadlines at all? Please tell me. Knowing the entire plan from start to finish is next to impossible with any project of a substantial scale.

Which they don't have because they are still in the asset creating phase.

And why would you not be able to set deadlines for creating those assets?

Even big game creating companies would not set a deadline before they could reach the point where it has any meaning.

I'd like to hear about your experience working at a big name game development company. Understand that the deadlines I'm talking about do not need to be public deadlines. And even if it's true what you say about those big companies, why does that immediately mean that that same approach should be taken for this project. They aren't a big company with hundreds of people working on the game.

If you want help them, than provide good ideas, and if you have complains than you should state them

Is that not what I was doing?

never, never want, or even just try to tell them how they should manage their time or how should they work.

So suggestions are forbidden. Got it.

You are not their boss and not their employer. As not any of us.

I never said I was. And I don't think anyone will think that I am.

At most, we are supporters that give money to them, so we have some privileges.

We are potential investors. And as a potential investor, I want to know how they plan to achieve their goals. Is that too much to ask? Do you think we should just throw our money at them and hope?

As for the one that have any kind of problem, with me, or with them, either go and say it straightforwardly in the discord

I don't know why anyone would have issues with you specifically. I don't even know what you have to do with the game. And what about the people that don't use Discord? Is that the one and only place that people can ask questions and provide feedback? Why have a community manager visit this forum then?

either go and say it straightforwardly in the discord, not just start to bitchin in this site

So if I say it here it's bitching, but if I say it in the Discord it's not? What about the things said by myself or others here is not saying it straightforward?

Or shut up and don't expect that any one would care about your problems.

Obviously people do care about "our" problems. Otherwise you wouldn't have responded. And I sure as hell hope that the LoK team cares about what people are saying about the project.

 

[Phanatic]

Nope. You do not help.

True. Commenting here is not made here for help though. Maximum help developers can get here is indirect commercial - people see game, they play it, they like it, they might consider supporting developers. Thats it.
You wanna help develoeprs non-monetarily? Join their discord and talk to them there. It will be difficult though, since they restricted alot of significant chats in different tiers depending on your monetary support., thus dividing communtiy in different sub-classes... but hey, what if you're lucky?

they are still in the asset creating phase. Even big game creating companies would not set a deadline before they could reach the point where it has any meaning.

False.
Where do you get such ideas? Do you work in game dev? Do you have expirience in it?
I do and I can tell you that EVERY single step has estimations, time and planning is critical. Including ideas phase, prototyping phase, concepts phase - all of that has deadlines and estimated time before presentation to the clients/senior company.
Even studying engines and coding has deadlines. In game development industry EVERYTHING has estimation, whether its going to be correct or not.
People don't work for themselfes - they work for people who pay them money. And people who pay them money should understand how much money they are going to invest into a certain phase of the project, thus they give you limitations, according to employee's rough estimations. Allways.

Companies that don't do that don't have huge monetary support. Because to the employers they are a gamble. And people don't gamble in buisness - they calculate everything in coldblood.

they have a vague idea, but, after the whole model remaking after the arguments about feet and getting a more than month worth of delay, they got to the conclusion that it would be meaningless to set a deadline since anything could come up.

Ah, the feet wars. Development team couldn't decide for themselfes of what they wanted and couldn't come up to an agreement, so they waisted a month on a questionable subject, while also triggering themselfes.
They could just be firm and desicive in their choice and not waist that time on comedy that Feet Wars were, but here we are... using that as a justification for how hard it is to be a developer.

This is why strong project vision on the project is a msut thing - not to waist everyone's time on something like feet.

they got to the conclusion that it would be meaningless to set a deadline since anything could come up.

Holy shit you are right. I guess I will say exactly that to my boss next time he gives me a theme to explore. I will just say that its meaningless. Huh, such a comfortable stance to have.

If you want help them, than provide good ideas. But never, never want, or even just try to tell them how they should manage their time or how should they work

So provide your ideas, but if you have expirience in the same field as they are and you want to tell them how much correct team management can do for them - get out? That is really convinient, right? Give us your ideas, please, but anything else and you are an enemy. Great!

You are not their boss and not their employer.

Well, you are in terms that you give them money, thus you are providing means to create the game, which is basically becoming a literall Investor who is a boss. But since its a Patreon and Patreon doesnt oblige developers to do ANYHTING at all...
True. You are their supporter and you have controll over your money that you choose to give them or not. Thus if you dont like what or how they do it - you can allways choose to NOT invest in something that you find questionable.

As for the one that have any kind of problem, with me, or with them, either go and say it straightforwardly in the discord, not just start to bitchin in this site

Which is basically "Come to our den where we will shit on you untill you decide that you were wrong all along". I doubt that is the correct thing to do. Also it was said a millions of times but a lot of people don't like or simply don't use Discord - its not their duty to do that. People choose that exact platform to share their thoughts and thus they have all of the freedom to do that.

witch should have set some rules long time ago to regulate certain people

Ahh, yes. An open-public censure. What a great solution.
Sorry, this site is about freedom of speech. Won't work that way.

Or shut up and don't expect that any one would care about your problems.

Thats basically what it comes down to, one way or another.
Here is a thing - its Internet, nobody really thinks that their opinion will change something. People jsut want to have a possibility to express their mind. And thats what they are doing here.
If their statement finds a callback in other's minds even if its not true... well... Thats how media works. You have means to chaneg that by saying your side of the story. But you should then watch what you are saying. Because making comebacks with agressive attitude will only be met with opposition.

 

[zensei]

Lol, the damage control from this guy is on point.

 

[Nixxx]

What nonsense. go to discord to show what they say here just to have support? who are 5 years old?

 

[MasterDisaster]

I just wanna play a new LoK Porn-Game…

 

[No.Name00]

156_163_146_167 & Phantas
Seems like you two have completely misunderstood me. The deadline i talking about is the public one. Which is concern us. Not the in them deadline, which don't concern us. They and big companies to are not going to announce every in team deadline they set to themselves. That would be ridiculous. And the public deadlines that concern us, regarding the demo or the beta/release of the game, that concern us are only announced when they are already at a certain point in development. And i don't think that any of us have the right to question about their work schedule or work plan. And no, we are no investors. Investors are one that will provide money to projects and have a share in the projects income later. We are doing and geting neither of that. Regarding complaining and bitching here is the same as in discord, that is a big mistake. This is just a site that shares the game, and not the games dedicated site. Making comments here is means almost next to nothing. And most people are either do it because they don't care to be actually useful regarding the game, and only want to troll and trash things. Of course, there are always exceptions. And telling your concerns and complaints are not the same as telling them how should they work. Most people are don't like when someone tell them what they should do. That is only annoying. Giving the advice is one thing, telling them how exactly they should do every step is just annoying and not required thing. As for vlad coming here, is only because he is a big idiot that always try to appease everyone that is to lazy or idiot to search for the information he wants. Asking things is alway a good thing, but when people are lazy to the point that they don't even have ten minutes to read back a few comment and ask the exact same thing only ten or so comments after the same comment and the answer for that, is simply an annoying thing. And will only reassure him to never ever come here again to comment. So yeah, either use discord or in last case, the patreon site, which is not a good thing because patreons standing for thing, to much information related to adult content would get banned. So they make post scarcly there. Besides, almost half of the discord users are the same as people here, just, they come there to convey their opinion and not write it this site and wait for the time that someone would notice them. Regarding Phantas open censure and freedom of speech. The is something given. The regulation i talked about is that the admins should set rules so people are don't get carried away. Witch is a common thing in almost every normal site. If you are an asshol and expres your opinion like an asshole you got banned, if you are an inteligent one and express your opinion as one, you don't. Regulating the manner of speech and restricting speech is not the same. And don't tell me that you never thought that someone doesn't deserve some kind of demerit for his/her manner of speech. And, the reason i said that the ones that can't be straightforward should shut up is because they are just want to cause chaos and would make things unnecessarily wrose. Even if someone is a troll, they should at least have the balls to say it to the face of the ones they trashing. If they don't even have that courage than why do you even talk?
PS:
Lastly, i consider this topic finished from my part. Of course, i would read your replay. But, i would probably not gonna answer to them, because there would be no need. I said everything i wanted. Every furthere thing would be only meaningless debates between us on small things regarding knowledge, view point or who is rong where. Which, i don't care about. I never considered this site, this thread a lace to converse with people for hours. I just state my opinion, and my thought. And sometimes replay to other when they misunderstood my mening, like with this comment right now. So, until there is something i would see mening to comment on. Bye.

 

[Ion.TemUS]

Let me just say - writing without any anger here.

Yes, I agree deadlines are important. Rough deadlines and milestones for each member of the game. Thats the basics of development organization.

What am I working on atm?
How long will it take, roughly?
+/- a few days or a week
What are problems that come up?
What are alternative solutions (temporary or permanent) if it takes too long?
How does my work cross with the work of my other team members and how can I make that transition as smooth as possible?

Stuff like that is important. It tells you how far you are for this particular update (i.e. "I want to get at least 8 out of 12 milestones done for this patch, if possible of course all, its doable, but if we get problems here and there at least 8 should be done +/- 1")

On the other hand. Yes, Rome wasnt built in a day, and yes you can just keep putting out dealines and then breaking them, it breaks trust and that in itself is an issue.

They actually put forth a rough deadline for the first demo content to appear which will be available to the public and show the basic build of the overhauled game and its general design. As far as I remember they said December and definitely before next year. So thats the timeframe we are looking at.

Once they made that demo they will (hopefully) have a better idea of how long specific actions and developments take to implement and will get better and better in their ability to estimate the actual timeframes and quantitiy of content for subsequent patches and updates.

So I am in favor of no hard deadlines being implemented for the demo or the first couple of updates, and just rough estimates being given. But I agree with the commenters here saying you need deadlines and internal milestones and you need to keep making estimates about the timeframes for development roadblocks. You need a roadmap (at least internally as the team) so you can give good rough estimations about features for the next couple of updates and how far you are in overall game progression (percentage-wise), that would be a wise thing to do. Anything you want to do extra and in addition to plans you made should be made whenever you find the time for it. Being inspired and having a flow going and making things on the side whenever you have time is fine. But that extra content can be worked on little by little and on the side, unannounced so when it eventually comes together its a nice bonus you can add to another update either as a bonus or as replacement for a system that might take longer than expected.

Thats my idea of how it should work. Im not an expert, and Im sure you guys have plans and know how you want to organize all this. Im just voicing my line of thought here and that I agree with arguments from both sides - the devs as well as the consumers.

Btw. idk how much of this is true, but if the community managers of this game are actually just speculating themselves how things will turn out and have no idea about the development process (at least not about the other parts of it that have nothing to do with them - you do writing you said I think? I appreciate that and comment you for being able to write pretty eloquently, I mean that) they mabye shouldnt put it out there.

Plus, I dont want to insult you in any way, I think what others said here is pretty harsh, or at least harshly worded, so I dont think all of this is justified. But talking about a "game that was never done before and never will be done like this" might be right if you look at a million little details, but it sounds rather high and mighty without having any base for the pride that is based in that statement. It makes it sound like you are really trying to make the 1 in a million non-plus-ultra h-game that no company (not even the ones that actually have substantial budget) can keep up with and tbh I doubt thats whats gonna happen.

And dont get me wrong, I dont EXPECT this in any shape or form. All I want is a decent, enjoyable, fun game that has all the nice features you guys can think of, a lot of nice paths which are well developed, well developed lore (on that part I am sure you guys can reach your goal if you want to) and doesnt waste its time on unnecessary things (I am aware that last part is highly subjective, I consider unnecessary anything that isnt an integral part of the games experience but takes up loads of time that could be used in a better way and for better and more substantial features or elements. Again, hightly subjective , I know).

As for the "you are not their boss" argument. I have to agree. Im not anyones boss and nobody has to listen to me. Im only stating my opinion here because maybe someone picks up something useful from it and it can be useful. If Im not, thats fine, at least I used this to get my ideas out and had someone read over them. I dont feel entitled to anything. Im just stating my opinion. The only effect that I have on the game is that I once supported it, now I dont anymore. And I wont until I see the things I want to see happening reflected in the content. Namely a solid demo build, regular substantial updates, well communicated progress and content. Short, reliability and trust. You gain nothing from listening to people here on this forum, I agree. The only thing you gain might be insights and opinions in what would make people who previously supported your game do so again after a while. Its a long term investment, much like you always say the game is.

Many people said "go to the discord". Tbh I was on the discord for 8 months before Ver. 0.8 and in the non-patron chat rarely anything ever happened. I supported them before, but as soon as my support months were over I was not able to access patron chat anymore, which are also divided into Tiers, at least that is how it was. And in the jungle you rarely got to speak to anyone proper, and a lot of people were just rambling. Best case a dev or community manager came down and told you your opinion is wrong. That is legit the experience I made.

 

[156_163_146_167]

Not the in them deadline, which don't concern us.

That's where you are wrong. It definitely does concern us whether they use internal deadlines or not. It affects how the project is done and reflects how well they've thought about things concerning project management. If those sort of things are handled properly, I'd me more likely to drop on board and give money.

that concern us are only announced when they are already at a certain point in development.

But wouldn't it be great if that certain point is sooner rather than later?

Investors are one that will provide money to projects and have a share in the projects income later. We are doing and geting neither of that.

People that support them on Patreon are not providing them money?

Making comments here is means almost next to nothing.

I sincerely hope that the people behind the project do not think about it like that. Because I'd call that bad practice. Don't you think game developers in general look at multiple sources of media, and not just their own forums or whatever they have? The more feedback and opinions you can get for your game the better. What reason would they have to disregard valid feedback and criticism if it's given them? Just the place where it comes from? That's just silly. I don't believe you believe that.

And most people are either do it because they don't care to be actually useful regarding the game, and only want to troll and trash things.

Let's assume for a second that I'm a troll. Doesn't matter what you think of me regardless, but in this example I'm the troll. Can't I just as easily get into their Discord server and post whatever comments I would otherwise do here (which you just said is malicious because it's not on the game's dedicated site)? Would they ignore my input then as well, even though it's through their Discord? What distinction do you think they make? Will they only pay attention to those that actually paid them to get into their exclusive channels or whatever it's called in Discord, regardless of the content of the feedback? That's just silly.

And telling your concerns and complaints are not the same as telling them how should they work. Most people are don't like when someone tell them what they should do.

If you're targeting this at me, you may have missed the part where I was explicitly asked what I would do. And so I did. If their product manager doesn't like when I tell them what I should do, why would he ask me to do just that?

Asking things is alway a good thing, but when people are lazy to the point that they don't even have ten minutes to read back a few comment and ask the exact same thing only ten or so comments after the same comment and the answer for that, is simply an annoying thing. And will only reassure him to never ever come here again to comment.

You realize you can still handle that in a way that does not come off as whiny and negative in general, right? If you want a good example of public relations of a game development team, I suggest you go look at the Future Fragments thread and see what good a job HentaiWriter does at it. Much more welcoming of a community manager.

And, the reason i said that the ones that can't be straightforward should shut up is because they are just want to cause chaos and would make things unnecessarily wrose.

Can you please explain to me what you mean with being straightforward? You keep using that term and I don't know what you consider straightforward and what not. What's the opposite of it? Where do you draw the line? I genuinely would like to know.

 

[Rasmussen]

I think the thread itself has devolved into petty squabbles. I think everyone here is passionate about this project and while it deserves defense the lack of any tangible update in some time where the project is being redone does give impressions of it not sustaining in the long run.

Something that kind of irks me too is recommendations for more insight or being constructive is pushed to one of two mediums:

1. Patreon
2. Discord

While I believe Patreon should be and is the de facto way to do this I think it is natural given the recent history of this project for people to be weary on investing in one that has come to a screeching halt only to pick back up again some time later. As for Discord I feel like the medium itself is far too interpersonal given the nature of content for this game for people to want to go there (at least for me). That being said I think invalidating the community here like some posts have done previously literally dismissing it as just a "a site to share games" is poor form regardless of party. Granted this place can be a curse to some games that lack in managerial/development skills, but it can be a massive boon for exposure and common ground for constructive feedback for your entire audience not a smaller minority that is going to pander to your every whim (mind that you take certain impatient comments with a grain). That is something that can ultimately take your Patreon pool from 100's to 1000's to 10'000's as has transpired on some popular games here whom have shown dedication to their work. This is one of the largest communities online for adult related content/games.

That being said I don't think there is necessity for an absolute deadline nor a half-hearted one, but I would like to see this project's Trello return as that is the sole reason I never really had to post in this thread. It gave a clear mapping of what is being worked on, what will constitute a new release from them (things left to be finished), and gives a reasonable expectation the project is in motion with something coming down the pike. It has disappeared since then and if there is one bit of constructive feedback I could give that probably could have negated some of the previous post(s) wall of text it is bring that back. Not only is it going to give a clear picture for those concerned groups here that things are now moving forward, but it helps for teams to properly manage/develop in group projects like this effectively.

I personally think this was a great project and want to see it succeed like it is clear that everyone here wants, but it is clear to see it did go off the rails quite a bit and the only expectation I really have like many others is transparency. The Trello gave that so my constructive comment is bring it back.