VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [Dr PinkCake]

LostPersonFound · Jun 2, 2020

Holy Bacchus said:
I think the reason why we're not seeing much affection is because, at the moment, they're rediscovering their feelings for each other or even if they still have feelings as strong as they once were.

The flashback is obviously the beginning of their relationship so there's a clear tenderness and affection when it's fresh and new, but when we first meet both of them, they've been without that for some time and so they're both in desperate need of it given how their lives are at that point, and the MC provides it. Then in ep 4, which was not a well-written scene I'll admit, they both realise that this is what drew them to the MC and this realisation that they were going through the same things briefly rekindles their feelings for each other, and it's like they've agreed to start again with each other.

I chose the threesome path because I still like both of these characters, but I've seen what happens on the other path too, and to me it seems like, on both paths, they're taking things slow emotionally and wanting to explore what this whole situation means for them. This is pretty much what is said during the "picnic" scene on the threesome path, that none of them really know what they're feeling but they do know that they like each other and want to at least explore this but not get too emotionally attached too quickly. It shows a little bit more maturity because they all got emotionally invested with each other very quickly and it's what led to the blow up in ep 4, but now they're going to approach it slow and just see where it goes, if anywhere.

Also, the reason Maya leaves when seeing Josy with her Dad is because it hurts her to see them so happy given what happened between and her and her Dad. It wounds her emotionally to see a happy, loving father and daughter and so she needed some space.

Hmm, I can see that now appreciate the break down can't believe that I missed the meaning for some of these parts. Going to have to pay extra attention for now on. Because I understood the rekindle of feelings but beyond that I kind of just give it much thought.

Holy Bacchus · Jun 2, 2020

LostPersonFound said:
Hmm, I can see that now appreciate the break down can't believe that I missed the meaning for some of these parts. Going to have to pay extra attention for now on. Because I understood the rekindle of feelings but beyond that I kind of just give it much thought.

Give it time. I'm sure you'll get sick of all the psychoanalysis I do, just like everyone else has.

TripleV · Jun 2, 2020

Holy Bacchus said:
I think the reason why we're not seeing much affection is because, at the moment, they're rediscovering their feelings for each other or even if they still have feelings as strong as they once were.

The flashback is obviously the beginning of their relationship so there's a clear tenderness and affection when it's fresh and new, but when we first meet both of them, they've been without that for some time and so they're both in desperate need of it given how their lives are at that point, and the MC provides it. Then in ep 4, which was not a well-written scene I'll admit, they both realise that this is what drew them to the MC and this realisation that they were going through the same things briefly rekindles their feelings for each other, and it's like they've agreed to start again with each other.

I chose the threesome path because I still like both of these characters, but I've seen what happens on the other path too, and to me it seems like, on both paths, they're taking things slow emotionally and wanting to explore what this whole situation means for them. This is pretty much what is said during the "picnic" scene on the threesome path, that none of them really know what they're feeling but they do know that they like each other and want to at least explore this but not get too emotionally attached too quickly. It shows a little bit more maturity because they all got emotionally invested with each other very quickly and it's what led to the blow up in ep 4, but now they're going to approach it slow and just see where it goes, if anywhere.

Also, the reason Maya leaves when seeing Josy with her Dad is because it hurts her to see them so happy given what happened between her and her Dad. It wounds her emotionally to see a happy, loving father and daughter and so she needed some space.

My response question would be that what scene outside of that flashback would imply that Maya and Josie had any feelings to rediscover? They spent a lot of time together in episode 4. Was there any interaction there which implied for longing feelings for each other, any hesitation or doubt in their interactions? And of course in episode 5 Maya walked away because it hurt to see a happy father and daughter. So considering the discussion with the MC afterwards, how would that discussion played out differently if it had been a random female student hugging their tearful father? Was there anything to imply that it was worse because Maya was jealous of the woman she supposedly loved? Or her being bothered by the fact that Josie literally didn't seem to care at all if Maya was there to support her?

I'm not saying that you shouldn't enjoy the threesome path or that you couldn't spin your own story to fill those blanks, but for it to be an argument for the story not being bad, at least for me, it needs to be supported by actual events in the game. And I'll be honest here, when I replayed it for this part, I tried paying more attention to the Maya/Josie interactions and I don't really know where a lot of the stuff suggested here was really indicated.

ninetofive · Jun 2, 2020

TripleV said:
While there is a lot of positives to say of this game, there is one part of the game that I find so badly written that it is genuinely distracting to me at the moment. I want to stress that this is my opinion, although I will try to justify with the presentation in the game, and that I do respect the creator of the game despite the harsh language I'm about to use.

The Maya/Josie storyline and character dynamic are bafflingly badly written in a game that seems to be putting a lot of weight in fleshing out every character. To support my argument, I present a single question. Aside from the flashback, has there been a single scene in the game where it feels like those two have any genuine affection for each other? I'll even lower the bar. Has there been a single scene in the College part of it where it feels like Maya is even sexually attracted to women? I'm discounting the love declaration here myself is that kind of a scene needs to be supported by other scenes to feel meaningful, yet there's nothing before or after to indicate that these two even really like each other that much. I mean, if after this part they did that scene with say Camila and Mona, could you argue it didn't feel more earned than anything with Maya and Josie.

The reason this makes the whole story so weird is that the game established that Maya's character beat was that she lost everything by choosing to stay true to herself and is now desperate for tuition money due to her bigoted dad cutting her off. Yet, as mentioned above, nothing in the game supports that she has any affection for Josie, even likes girls and Maya basically started lusting after the first guy she met on campus. So what is her, and I'm not even touching Josie here, journey exactly? What character arc is even preventing Maya from being in a significant relationship with the MC? Not her love for Josie, as in the game it doesn't exist, nor any doubts about her sexuality, as Maya clearly got over any hesitations about liking girls. With all the other major LIs, you can see that story, but with these two, there's nothing. Based on the presentation in the game so far, there's no doubt that they would choose the MC in a heartbeat as they don't seem to be in any kind of relationship with each other.

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Well the story is obviously set up that way to make the M+J relationship a big reveal and a shock to the player at the end of Episode 3. So by design we don't ever see those two characters together for the first three episodes. Episode 4 M+J are basically on the rocks for the whole episode and since the story is mostly told from MC POV and he is actively trying to avoid them, again we see very little of them together in this episode either.

Now personally I think the way their story was told and how it was executed in the game during Episode 4 was really poorly done, and that may have further reaching implications in the story. However I do think their overall story arc still works, but you have to view it from the perspective of the MC and not the player. The scene you describe as absurd in Episode 5 really didn't seem that way to me because we left M+J in Episode 4 after hugging it out and declaring that we will be friends. MC has a moment of introspection and is pretty happy with the situation, there is no animosity from the MC perspective here, only the player in some cases. As for what happens with Josy after that scene, again you gotta remember MC has been the closest friend she has had since Maya left (weeks ago) and her relationship with Maya is a secret so her wanting MC to support her in that situation also makes sense.

Bottom line is we basically have two Episodes where that story is actually being told. Episode 4 was badly done and Episode 5 the story doesn't really progress much with them anyway.

Cndyrvr4lf · Jun 2, 2020

Holy Bacchus said:
Give it time. I'm sure you'll get sick of all the psychoanalysis I do, just like everyone else has.

I love you man. I don't always agree with you but you and ename144 are the two people I love to read posts from.

xsssssssss · Jun 2, 2020

TripleV said:
My apologies for the misunderstanding. And yeah, they would work so much better as lifelong friends who are both attracted to the same guy than whatever the hell this is supposed to be. The issues with Maya character arc would still be there, but at least it would then be more limited or could be dealt with better.

What drives me nuts is that these two are so utterly superficial while the game goes to such lengths to explain other characters behaviour. Like with Jade and Cathy, it does to work to justify why does two professional women would put themselves in such a risky position with a student. So why the hell is it being so lazy with Josie and Maya who are supposed to be two of the main girls in the game?

Disagree the notion of 2 friends would be as silly as it was in acting lessons. The set up of 2 lovers who also end up interested in a guy is a more realistic set up for a relationship. I found both characters rather dull from the outset though.

Yanagi-san · Jun 2, 2020

Yo!
In this game, Sage only messes with the main character of the game?
(Well, after Troy)

Cndyrvr4lf · Jun 2, 2020

TripleV said:
My response question would be that what scene outside of that flashback would imply that Maya and Josie had any feelings to rediscover? They spent a lot of time together in episode 4. Was there any interaction there which implied for longing feelings for each other, any hesitation or doubt in their interactions? And of course in episode 5 Maya walked away because it hurt to see a happy father and daughter. So considering the discussion with the MC afterwards, how would that discussion played out differently if it had been a random female student hugging their tearful father? Was there anything to imply that it was worse because Maya was jealous of the woman she supposedly loved? Or her being bothered by the fact that Josie literally didn't seem to care at all if Maya was there to support her?

I'm not saying that you shouldn't enjoy the threesome path or that you couldn't spin your own story to fill those blanks, but for it to be an argument for the story not being bad, at least for me, it needs to be supported by actual events in the game. And I'll be honest here, when I replayed it for this part, I tried paying more attention to the Maya/Josie interactions and I don't really know where a lot of the stuff suggested here was really indicated.

I thought the moment on the bed after the MC left was a good one. The I care "Great Big Diarrhea shit about you" one.

TripleV · Jun 2, 2020

ninetofive said:
Well the story is obviously set up that way to make the M+J relationship a big reveal and a shock to the player at the end of Episode 3. So by design we don't ever see those two characters together for the first three episodes. Episode 4 M+J are basically on the rocks for the whole episode and since the story is mostly told from MC POV and he is actively trying to avoid them, again we see very little of them together in this episode either.

Now personally I think the way their story was told and how it was executed in the game during Episode 4 was really poorly done, and that may have further reaching implications in the story. However I do think their overall story arc still works, but you have to view it from the perspective of the MC and not the player. The scene you describe as absurd in Episode 5 really didn't seem that way to me because we left M+J in Episode 4 after hugging it out and declaring that we will be friends. MC has a moment of introspection and is pretty happy with the situation, there is no animosity from the MC perspective here, only the player in some cases. As for what happens with Josy after that scene, again you gotta remember MC has been the closest friend she has had since Maya left (weeks ago) and her relationship with Maya is a secret so her wanting MC to support her in that situation also makes sense.

Bottom line is we basically have two Episodes where that story is actually being told. Episode 4 was badly done and Episode 5 the story doesn't really progress much with them anyway.

Okay, at least we are in agreement about Episode being badly executed. So on the Episode 5 stuff, if you agreed to just be friends with them, Episode 4 has the two women express how much they love each other. That was where they were left off. Yet instantly in their scene in episode 5, Josie is passionate about the MC being there for her and shrugs off Maya's offer. Maya, in turn, doesn't seem bothered at all by that nor does she indicate any kind of internal conflict about being jealous of the woman she claims to love. Josie doesn't care at all when Maya disappears nor shows any interest in her well-being. any Instead both of them, depending on the choice, will make it clear how deeply attracted they are to the MC. Does any of this sound like reasonable behavior from two people who had just declared their love for each other?

As for the two part thing, my only response to that is so what? We can only react to the story has been told so far and I don't know how to comment on what might be because that is a complete hypothetical. However, I guess I could ask that if the story fails to set up a meaningful story beat this badly, then can it really recover? I mean, based on the current presentation, what reason is there to care about the Maya/Josie relationship if the game itself has gone out of its way to make it feel meaningless?

always86 · Jun 2, 2020

TripleV said:
While there is a lot of positives to say of this game, there is one part of the game that I find so badly written that it is genuinely distracting to me at the moment. I want to stress that this is my opinion, although I will try to justify with the presentation in the game, and that I do respect the creator of the game despite the harsh language I'm about to use.

The Maya/Josie storyline and character dynamic are bafflingly badly written in a game that seems to be putting a lot of weight in fleshing out every character. To support my argument, I present a single question. Aside from the flashback, has there been a single scene in the game where it feels like those two have any genuine affection for each other? I'll even lower the bar. Has there been a single scene in the College part of it where it feels like Maya is even sexually attracted to women? I'm discounting the love declaration here myself is that kind of a scene needs to be supported by other scenes to feel meaningful, yet there's nothing before or after to indicate that these two even really like each other that much. I mean, if after this part they did that scene with say Camila and Mona, could you argue it didn't feel more earned than anything with Maya and Josie.

The reason this makes the whole story so weird is that the game established that Maya's character beat was that she lost everything by choosing to stay true to herself and is now desperate for tuition money due to her bigoted dad cutting her off. Yet, as mentioned above, nothing in the game supports that she has any affection for Josie, even likes girls and Maya basically started lusting after the first guy she met on campus. So what is her, and I'm not even touching Josie here, journey exactly? What character arc is even preventing Maya from being in a significant relationship with the MC? Not her love for Josie, as in the game it doesn't exist, nor any doubts about her sexuality, as Maya clearly got over any hesitations about liking girls. With all the other major LIs, you can see that story, but with these two, there's nothing. Based on the presentation in the game so far, there's no doubt that they would choose the MC in a heartbeat as they don't seem to be in any kind of relationship with each other.

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I don’t 100% agree with this take, we met Josy and Maya at a difficult time in their relationship. They are on the verge of breaking up partly because of distance and partly due to Maya‘s familial challenges. It’s established from both early on that they are in a relationship and it’s causing them to feel conflicted about MC.

We gather they’ve had feelings for each other when they fuck at the lake. And I think this all comes together well. As the MC we don’t spend a lot of time with them together. Think about it, we find out the turn, have a hissy fit and storm out. The two aren’t really seen by The MC together until the party at which point you either get the poly relation ship or they make out with each other. In the poly relationship they are plotting with MC.

In episode 5 you are either together with them or you aren’t. If you aren’t you see them hanging out and partying together, dancing having fun. Your right Josy’s dad should have been changed slightly on this path, Josy asking Maya first and then MC ‘as a friend’. After this they are separate again and beyond that we don’t see them.

On the poly route, we dance with them and get them booze. Maya storming off makes sense as she is jealous and heartbroken about her own dad. Again they are separated. IMO the correct path her is to go with Maya, as you Josy discovers you and you can tell her what happened, as I understand you can’t do the same with Maya(?). You then have the phone call and the picnic. Yes they aren’t all over each other but this is also not a new relationship. How many of the other characters have we seen being intimate with their significant others?

mindern said:
To be fair... you’ve got to get a little meta with this and think how much of a shit fit people throw at the whole “those three letters”.

the discord was unhappy at them kissing at the end of Ep4. People reaaaaallly don’t like it when characters are sexual with anyone other than the MC. Lesbian gets more of a pass but you’ll notice nobody shows any affection to anyone but the MC. All partners are either absent or in a dead bedroom.

Most of the cast are cheating on their partner with MC but nobody is cheating on MC with their partner. Maya/Josy not being up in each other’s business might be a choice to keep the peace over actually being a desired and intended character trait.

I’m not disagreeing with you, just raising a point.

I do find it ridiculous when people get all sensitive about avoidable NTR. (And any NTR really). To be upset about Maya and Josy, two characters who are in a relationship, kissing is bizarre. Ultimately, you should be making the choices that lead to the path you want. You can’t have everyone and a harem ending is certainly not going to happen.

That leaves 3 choices;

MC cheats on the girl you have chosen to go after. He’s a cunt and you’re treating the girl you fucked around on Badly.

MC is loyal to one but you think all the others should be single and miserable.

You try to create happy endings, by setting the characters up.

Quick thoughts about NTR.

1. If you/ the MC don’t like a character she can’t NTR you. You/ MC needs a relationship or at least to have romantic feelings towards them.

2. Someone in an existing relationship can’t NTR you/ MC. In other words if Burke Fucks Jade he’s still the cuckold, if their relationship works out, Burke is still the cuck.

3. If you like a character, for example I like Bella, the MC can only be ‘cucked’ on the path where you go for her. With the exception of her Husband coming back that’s unlikely. If you ignore her and don’t put any effort in to romancing her you and the MC can’t be cucked.

4. If you are doing a second/ third play through and taking different paths to unlock everything then the MC can’t be cucked because point 3 applies.

5. If you look and point 4 and say yeah but I like character x. Let me remind you she is fucking the MC, not you. You’re already being cucked by the MC. If you say no me and MC are one and the same then the MCs relationship to the person is what counts and if he doesn’t care about them he can’t be cucked aNd neither can you

TripleV · Jun 2, 2020

Cndyrvr4lf said:
I thought the moment on the bed after the MC left was a good one. The I care "Great Big Diarrhea shit about you" one.

I guess my issue with that is that it felt like a set up more than a scene itself. If the two of them felt awkward with each other after that, then it would have come across as them not being sincere in those words. Instead they were so chill that it made the bed scene feel like they were serious with what they said. The more I think on the choices in this story, the more baffled I am as it feels like there was so much that could have been easily addressed to enhance the story or even have it make sense.

By the way, as a general comment, I've really enjoyed the discussions and viewpoints on this, especially since I was worried I would be somewhat crucified for being so critical of the game. As I depart for the time, can I suggest a theory on why the Maya/Josie storyline is struggling at the moment, or at least a partial reason as there a lot of components there. The core issue, for me, is that Maya's story as it was established is a MC story, which makes it such an awkward fit for a NPC character.

To illustrate my point, imagine they made a movie with the Maya/Josie/MC set up. Is there really any doubt that Maya wouldn't be the main character of that movie? And, if the movie was even semi-decently made, no one would really be rooting for the MC being the final love story at the end?

jackofshadows · Jun 2, 2020

TripleV said:
While there is a lot of positives to say of this game, there is one part of the game that I find so badly written that it is genuinely distracting to me at the moment. I want to stress that this is my opinion, although I will try to justify with the presentation in the game, and that I do respect the creator of the game despite the harsh language I'm about to use.

The Maya/Josie storyline and character dynamic are bafflingly badly written in a game that seems to be putting a lot of weight in fleshing out every character. To support my argument, I present a single question. Aside from the flashback, has there been a single scene in the game where it feels like those two have any genuine affection for each other? I'll even lower the bar. Has there been a single scene in the College part of it where it feels like Maya is even sexually attracted to women? I'm discounting the love declaration here myself is that kind of a scene needs to be supported by other scenes to feel meaningful, yet there's nothing before or after to indicate that these two even really like each other that much. I mean, if after this part they did that scene with say Camila and Mona, could you argue it didn't feel more earned than anything with Maya and Josie.

The reason this makes the whole story so weird is that the game established that Maya's character beat was that she lost everything by choosing to stay true to herself and is now desperate for tuition money due to her bigoted dad cutting her off. Yet, as mentioned above, nothing in the game supports that she has any affection for Josie, even likes girls and Maya basically started lusting after the first guy she met on campus. So what is her, and I'm not even touching Josie here, journey exactly? What character arc is even preventing Maya from being in a significant relationship with the MC? Not her love for Josie, as in the game it doesn't exist, nor any doubts about her sexuality, as Maya clearly got over any hesitations about liking girls. With all the other major LIs, you can see that story, but with these two, there's nothing. Based on the presentation in the game so far, there's no doubt that they would choose the MC in a heartbeat as they don't seem to be in any kind of relationship with each other.

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Ironically, even when MC is calling one of them near the end of ep5 and video-call is starting turns out that they moved beds together beforehand because "were waiting for you". Yes, M/J relationship looks sorta like bs at this point, but I'm curious why you catiously pointed out that in particular.

Writing simply far from being brilliant here overall but not necessarily due to DPC's incompetence, personally I consider him as a very capable writer but due to the fact that the game is trying to entertain too much, unfortunately. It also is trying to create an illusion that MC is not the fucking center of the universe and so much is out of his control yet in fact it's kinda the opposite. As I said at first ep5 impressions, my biggest gripe was about Tommy/Rusty/whole DIK bunch being way too passive and it was too obvious. The whole picture started to falling apart and M/J situation is just a cherry on top. Said that, it's just an episode and I hope trend will turn around somehow.

Gh0st_Harambe · Jun 2, 2020

TripleV · Jun 2, 2020

jackofshadows said:
Ironically, even when MC is calling one of them near the end of ep5 and video-call is starting turns out that they moved beds together beforehand because "were waiting for you". Yes, M/J relationship looks sorta like bs at this point, but I'm curious why you catiously pointed out that in particular.

Writing simply far from being brilliant here overall but not necessarily due to DPC's incompetence, personally I consider him as a very capable writer but due to the fact that the game is trying to entertain too much, unfortunately. It also is trying to create illusion that MC is not the fucking center of the universe and so much is out of his control yet in fact it's kinda the opposite. As I said at first ep5 impressions, my biggest gripe was about Tommy/Rusty/whole DIK bunch being way too passive and it was too obvious. The whole picture started to falling apart and M/J situation is just a cherry on top. Said that, it's just an episode and I hope trend will turn around somehow.

I didn't play the polyroute, so I didn't even know it got that bad. Jesus Christ I do not understand what it is even trying to do.

So the reason I pointed this particular storyline bothers me is that there always stories that work or don't work for the player. There are tropes that don't work for me personally and don't work for others, but while the discussions relating to them are interesting, they are also largely driven by preference. While I may now sound like a hypocrite, the Maya/Josie storyline is just really badly written and an utter mess as a story. For me, my issues aren't even that I don't like this kind of a story, but that it doesn't make sense within the context of the larger presentation. With everything else, I get the game is going for, with M/J, I just struggle really hard.

ninetofive · Jun 2, 2020

TripleV said:
Okay, at least we are in agreement about Episode being badly executed. So on the Episode 5 stuff, if you agreed to just be friends with them, Episode 4 has the two women express how much they love each other. That was where they were left off. Yet instantly in their scene in episode 5, Josie is passionate about the MC being there for her and shrugs off Maya's offer. Maya, in turn, doesn't seem bothered at all by that nor does she indicate any kind of internal conflict about being jealous of the woman she claims to love. Josie doesn't care at all when Maya disappears nor shows any interest in her well-being. any Instead both of them, depending on the choice, will make it clear how deeply attracted they are to the MC. Does any of this sound like reasonable behavior from two people who had just declared their love for each other?

As for the two part thing, my only response to that is so what? We can only react to the story has been told so far and I don't know how to comment on what might be because that is a complete hypothetical. However, I guess I could ask that if the story fails to set up a meaningful story beat this badly, then can it really recover? I mean, based on the current presentation, what reason is there to care about the Maya/Josie relationship if the game itself has gone out of its way to make it feel meaningless?

Without going back and replaying that particular scene I can't really give you any more discussion on it. As I said from my perspective that scene and the following dialogue with Josy where she admits she still has feelings for MC both seemed fine to me. And I'm not really sure what you mean in the second paragraph I wasn't trying to discuss hypotheticals with you.

jackofshadows said:
Ironically, even when MC is calling one of them near the end of ep5 and video-call is starting turns out that they moved beds together beforehand because "were waiting for you". Yes, M/J relationship looks sorta like bs at this point, but I'm curious why you catiously pointed out that in particular.

Writing simply far from being brilliant here overall but not necessarily due to DPC's incompetence, personally I consider him as a very capable writer but due to the fact that the game is trying to entertain too much, unfortunately. It also is trying to create an illusion that MC is not the fucking center of the universe and so much is out of his control yet in fact it's kinda the opposite. As I said at first ep5 impressions, my biggest gripe was about Tommy/Rusty/whole DIK bunch being way too passive and it was too obvious. The whole picture started to falling apart and M/J situation is just a cherry on top. Said that, it's just an episode and I hope trend will turn around somehow.

I think this is a good take on it to be honest. Episode 5 was pretty glaring in this regard. I said it jokingly in another post about how in Episode 6 I expect MC to cure cancer and corona virus and fix the world hunger crisis because Ep 5 was just gratuitous in how much it poured it on.

ename144 · Jun 2, 2020

TripleV said:
While there is a lot of positives to say of this game, there is one part of the game that I find so badly written that it is genuinely distracting to me at the moment. I want to stress that this is my opinion, although I will try to justify with the presentation in the game, and that I do respect the creator of the game despite the harsh language I'm about to use.

The Maya/Josie storyline and character dynamic are bafflingly badly written in a game that seems to be putting a lot of weight in fleshing out every character. To support my argument, I present a single question. Aside from the flashback, has there been a single scene in the game where it feels like those two have any genuine affection for each other? I'll even lower the bar. Has there been a single scene in the College part of it where it feels like Maya is even sexually attracted to women? I'm discounting the love declaration here myself is that kind of a scene needs to be supported by other scenes to feel meaningful, yet there's nothing before or after to indicate that these two even really like each other that much. I mean, if after this part they did that scene with say Camila and Mona, could you argue it didn't feel more earned than anything with Maya and Josie.

The reason this makes the whole story so weird is that the game established that Maya's character beat was that she lost everything by choosing to stay true to herself and is now desperate for tuition money due to her bigoted dad cutting her off. Yet, as mentioned above, nothing in the game supports that she has any affection for Josie, even likes girls and Maya basically started lusting after the first guy she met on campus. So what is her, and I'm not even touching Josie here, journey exactly? What character arc is even preventing Maya from being in a significant relationship with the MC? Not her love for Josie, as in the game it doesn't exist, nor any doubts about her sexuality, as Maya clearly got over any hesitations about liking girls. With all the other major LIs, you can see that story, but with these two, there's nothing. Based on the presentation in the game so far, there's no doubt that they would choose the MC in a heartbeat as they don't seem to be in any kind of relationship with each other.

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Sorry, this took a while to write out and I'm not updating it to account for all the new posts!

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Ragnar · Jun 2, 2020

TripleV said:
While there is a lot of positives to say of this game, there is one part of the game that I find so badly written that it is genuinely distracting to me at the moment. I want to stress that this is my opinion, although I will try to justify with the presentation in the game, and that I do respect the creator of the game despite the harsh language I'm about to use.

The Maya/Josie storyline and character dynamic are bafflingly badly written in a game that seems to be putting a lot of weight in fleshing out every character. To support my argument, I present a single question. Aside from the flashback, has there been a single scene in the game where it feels like those two have any genuine affection for each other? I'll even lower the bar. Has there been a single scene in the College part of it where it feels like Maya is even sexually attracted to women? I'm discounting the love declaration here myself is that kind of a scene needs to be supported by other scenes to feel meaningful, yet there's nothing before or after to indicate that these two even really like each other that much. I mean, if after this part they did that scene with say Camila and Mona, could you argue it didn't feel more earned than anything with Maya and Josie.

The reason this makes the whole story so weird is that the game established that Maya's character beat was that she lost everything by choosing to stay true to herself and is now desperate for tuition money due to her bigoted dad cutting her off. Yet, as mentioned above, nothing in the game supports that she has any affection for Josie, even likes girls and Maya basically started lusting after the first guy she met on campus. So what is her, and I'm not even touching Josie here, journey exactly? What character arc is even preventing Maya from being in a significant relationship with the MC? Not her love for Josie, as in the game it doesn't exist, nor any doubts about her sexuality, as Maya clearly got over any hesitations about liking girls. With all the other major LIs, you can see that story, but with these two, there's nothing. Based on the presentation in the game so far, there's no doubt that they would choose the MC in a heartbeat as they don't seem to be in any kind of relationship with each other.

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I think you hate how the game forces Josy and Maya on the MC, that was a problem with Acting Lessons too, but them as characters and their relationship have been around since the first Episode until now. So much that we have to wait until EP 4 to have the possibility of breaking with them.

blabbolo · Jun 2, 2020

TripleV said:
Here, when you run in to them at the mansion, Josie is enthusiastic the MC, who I had reject them in the previous part, be there for support when she met her dad and when Maya asked if Josie wanted her there, the response was almost literally 'Sure, whatever'. It was such an absurd scene that I assumed that it was building for something, but nope, as Maya doesn't show any jealousy or even being bothered by it, and when Maya disappears, Josie doesn't seem really interested at all where Maya went. Then both of them, depending on the choice, again expressed how much they lusted after the MC for reasons I can't comprehend. Although Josie's dorm room scene was unintentionally hilarious as, again based on what the game has shown us, anything to support that it would even be a choice to Josie.

This is on point on so many levels, i played as a dik route, got rejected just to see them act like nothing ever happened and josy asking for your help like it's the most natural thing in the world, that part made no sense, she should have asked maya first but for her she was just an afterthought, the mc was the priority, that was such an odd scene for the dik path.

jim_dark · Jun 2, 2020

Zirael Q said:
Ok guys, now I found the perfect "theory"(definitely not a fanfic). MC is actually both Burgmeister and Royce, also the long lost brother of Rusty. MC's mother is actually a Royce, and his father is a Burgmeister... But they hid that fact growing up so that MC wouldn't be a rich snob when he got to B&R. Rusty doesn't use Russell as his name because when he was little, MC used to call him Rusty and he liked that.

Now, you have the dream : Jill is your sister and Bella is the stepmother. Josy is actually Bella's daughter so you can have the incest dream you always had.
If I tried a bit harder I could fit Sage and Maya to the story as well, but I'm tired for now. Will try better next time I promise
This theory may make no sense for you, but this is what I believe. I realized this from Ep5's Bella and Jill scene. It's actually pretty obvious, if you look hard enough you too will see that.

so when jill took josy to the libary josy didn't recognize isabella as her mother ?

Lady Aspen · Jun 2, 2020

Some Signatures/

Links/

Code:

https://attachments.f95zone.to/2020/06/693156_BaDIK-1.gif
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VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [Dr PinkCake]

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