- Mar 16, 2018
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I find this discussion so interesting. For me, that is the worst kind of woman. A woman who throws away a marriage, walks all over her husband, and cheats (although the fantasy is fun). Getting pregnant would be the ultimate betrayal. It makes me sick to my stomach. The preview shot where she took off her wedding ring... I lost any interest in trying to redeem her at that point.
To see that there are others who find this attractive or that it inspires their sexual fantasies is quite interesting. Is it the feeling of jealousy that is enjoyed? Or the cheating? I can understand the pregnancy fantasy. But actually doing it is worse than criminal to me. What is it that feeds those flames for this type of material? Is it limited to fantasy or does it extend to real life?
For me, it is a downside that this game has taken a mostly interracial cheating and cuckold path, compared to the swinging or sharing, the voyeur/exhibitionist, the streamer, or even the old man thing (not my thing). But for others, this is exactly what attracts them to the game. We live in a diverse world!
To see that there are others who find this attractive or that it inspires their sexual fantasies is quite interesting. Is it the feeling of jealousy that is enjoyed? Or the cheating? I can understand the pregnancy fantasy. But actually doing it is worse than criminal to me. What is it that feeds those flames for this type of material? Is it limited to fantasy or does it extend to real life?
For me, it is a downside that this game has taken a mostly interracial cheating and cuckold path, compared to the swinging or sharing, the voyeur/exhibitionist, the streamer, or even the old man thing (not my thing). But for others, this is exactly what attracts them to the game. We live in a diverse world!
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- May 6, 2023
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I agree, extreme cuckolding doesn't do it for me. My wife and I are into the sharing and swinging lifestyle. I'm fine with Devs doing whatever paths they like, even extreme ones, go for it, its their work. I just hope they are open to keeping the less extreme paths fun and engaging with more content as well. One of the things I really love about this game is there is a nice variety of paths to explore while skipping the more extreme path.
I really enjoy the exhibitionistic exploration of the loving faithful couple. And the sharing scene is great! I too have experience with that lifestyle. Personally, I find this story —as it is written with the BBC Bull and in the direction it has been going— painful and unpleasant. It defies all the rules lifestyle couples put in place and what keeps those relationships alive and well. People who play like that ultimately end up crashing and burning horrifically. It is cool that we can play this game like that, as well. There is a crash and burn path!
Like you, I hope that the developer continues to develop those avenues of the game. But the writing is good enough that I enjoy playing regardless. And I enjoy hearing from other perspectives. What it is that makes them tick!
- Mar 16, 2018
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The thing is every conceivable sexual thing has its own devotees.
And I don't mind consenting grown people playing their own games, but I would console that there's a fine line between having fun and being hurt, physically or mentally.
One track Ethan is on leads to his self-destruction.
And I don't mind consenting grown people playing their own games, but I would console that there's a fine line between having fun and being hurt, physically or mentally.
One track Ethan is on leads to his self-destruction.
I kinda see Nat that way as well. The path where she would cheat with random partners, defend Darrel for posting recordings, and become a porn star. It is one thing to enjoy the fantasy of this world. Completely another to go down it, destroy a marriage and beloved person, and throw away a future for money and cock.
There is a path where the MC confronts Nat while she is cheating, reveals what Darrel has done, and then we are only given the option to forgive her. I am not sure if this was King B simply limiting the options for the sake of coding an already nightmarishly difficult to path game, or if he forced this decision for the sake of the story that I cannot see yet.
I think there are a number of players who, like me, would choose not to forgive her and would prefer to see Ethan kick her out and go for his work colleague. While that would be soulfully satisfying, I am not sure that is the story being told here. Like many of the games that tell the story of a couple trying to explore, they all turn into this mess where the husband (willingly or otherwise) takes a backseat to the wife's monstrous appetite and ends in meaningless and boring sex scenes. And again, maybe that is the kink...the actual story these authors want to tell.
But perhaps, it is what happens when we attempt to tell these kinds of stories and are unable to work our way through to a satisfactory ending where the couple stays together. I could completely see this story ending with a happy couple who has expanded their sexual life together and ends up staying in the lifestyle. With or without the cuckoldry, exhibitionism, or streaming their sex life. However, Darrel is the problem in this game. His involvement makes the game about him and his appetite, not the couple; not even about Natalie. It is a product of writing him as he has been written. Instead of making him just one of the tools the couple uses to explore each other, he is in it for himself (his satisfaction, blog, personal conquest); at the cost of Natalie's and Ethan's lives and relationship.
Even though it is ridiculous that a happily married woman would have sex with a random stranger she just found in a bar, it would have been preferred that this was the source of her awakening because it was a one-time thing and has no lasting drama (recordings, pregnancy, relationship). Then we could easily see the couple expanding to the sharing scenario or any of the other paths. I've replayed this game so much that I tend to confuse the paths. But a path where the couple explores fantasies together, some exhibitionism, toying with Peter, learning about options from Jenna, and then going on to experiment with sharing and streaming is a path that seems logical, connected, and completely possible. Variables that mess with "the happy couple" are Darrel, Jenna's intent (fun and playful or harmful and destructive), and of course, how Ethan takes the expanding desire his partner is experiencing. If he stifles it, we can see the negative outcomes of cheating and the destruction of the marriage. And if he fosters it, the successful expansion of the couple's sexual pallet! Now, that sounds like a Couple's Duet of Love and Lust!
There is still a lot of room for growth in this developing story. Just the rambling thoughts from a guy who enjoys this story.
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- Mar 16, 2018
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I could give less than two shits about Ethan on other than 1 or 2 paths, so I'm not vested in his character at all.
for me, it's all about Nat being transformed into a sexual dynamo. I would prefer hubby to be a solid type that doesn't mind, encourages, and freely consents to his wife's occasional pleasure-seeking outside of the conventional boundaries of marriage. Really want Nat to recruit another girl (Riya) to talk Ethan into a threesome for some fair play and some g on g show!
for me, it's all about Nat being transformed into a sexual dynamo. I would prefer hubby to be a solid type that doesn't mind, encourages, and freely consents to his wife's occasional pleasure-seeking outside of the conventional boundaries of marriage. Really want Nat to recruit another girl (Riya) to talk Ethan into a threesome for some fair play and some g on g show!
Can't speak for others who get off on being doormatted and used like a slave then eventually disposed of, but for me personally the appeal is the idea of how far she'd go to get me off. I'm kinda fucked in the head cuz degrading women gets me off, and seeing her willing to desecrate the sanctity of her marriage all to please her husband because of his fetish is very erotic to me. It's because like you said, she's doing things that you associate exclusively with "the worst kind of woman". It's a mindfuck of well if she's doing it specifically for her husband, it also makes her "the best kind of woman". Think about it she's willing to basically brand herself as a whore for the rest of her life, throw away her dignity and lose her status as an ideal woman, and she's doing it purely for the sexual gratification of her husband. She's putting aside any ego or reservation she has about the labels etc and letting herself be a whore for her husband, because making him happy makes her happy. It's more work than just being a dutiful vanilla stay at home wife. The whole queen of spade angle is the idea that she learns to enjoy being a dirty whore once she accepts that this is what will get her husband off, as in she enjoys making him feel good. The idea of ethan taking a sub route and having nat take more charge in the relationship is him being able to let go of the reigns and let her show him what she's willing to do for him without needing to be told, cuz anyone can do what they're told, it takes a different person to be able to do something good for their loved ones, even if its something that comes at a personal expense. Jenna trying to rationalize it is great and all but ultimately her marriage is shit compared to ethan and nat's, jenna manipulates sam to let her fuck other guys because she's a selfish whore, while nat is a selfless whore who does it to please her husband. It's why sam comes across as a worm and jenna leaves a bad taste in your mouth whenever she speaks. Their relationship is the negative form of ethan and nat's, of what you get when the wife is a bad wife, you end up with little more with a porn star(because she can't do anything else) whose every action is for the purpose of feeding her narcissism(trying to corrupt nat at first meet even if she isn't interested in her lifestyle, and going as far as to try to seduce ethan to try to manipulate nat into cheating on him or just feed her vanity by getting a married man to cheat on his wife behind her back). It's a very stark contrast and it's all internal, even though they're both taking relatively similar physical actions of being whores the meaning and motivations behind them are what separate them as people.
It's also why those netorase visual novels come with the option to stop what they're doing later. it's proof that she was doing it for him because the relationship is proven to not be driven by it, it's just something they did for a sexual thrill and it centered around her indulging her husband's perversion. It's the idea that a woman can be that utterly selfless in her relationship that she's willing to play a role like that, which without a doubt would be mentally physically and emotionally taxing, and worst case scenario ends up divorced and marriageable. Like for nat she's not divorcing ethan and then doing ok for herself. She's the unfaithful party so she's the one who would end up with reputation destruction, and if she gets a spade tat or a kid that's like putting the red A from scarlet letter on her forehead. Basically the more filthy she gets for ethan, the more she's demonstrating she's all in on their marriage, and I'm hoping the author puts in the stop the cuck play at the end or even at several points in the game to demonstrate that he's the one fueling her behavior rather than it being something nat doing for herself. It's also the angle of ok she's having good sex with an experienced porn star lover, but she's able to give it up without a second thought because her relationship with her husband dwarfs it. It's a pretty primal fear a lot of people can have of the potential betrayal of the ones you love, especially after you've given a lot to them like a husband in a marriage is giving up his future to be with just this woman. Having that betrayed is like saying yea those 5-10 years you spent with her and sacrificed for her, that was a complete waste and you were being duped, better luck next time. So being able to play with that fear as well as having her prove that it was an unfounded fear, even while staring it dead in the eyes, with her showing that she can't be tempted away, is also an appealing thought. Like there's better ways to prove your loyalty in real life but as a porn fantasy it makes sense.
Maybe it's a messed up perspective caused by trauma but for me, my only metric for how much a woman cared about me was how far she'll go for me. One of the ways she can demonstrate devotion is going outside her sexual comfort zone, cuz that's vulnerability. It's why sex doesn't mean anything with a porn star or prostitute, she's just doing a service you're paying for, she's done it a million times and you're just another john without a face or a name, you're nobody special to her. It's why getting nudes from an actual woman is more viscerally arousing than just looking at them on the internet. She's being vulnerable with you and doing something special for you, specifically. Maybe not really but she is aware you could say something really mean or do something fucked up like posting them on the internet. It's why its a lot more arousing when she's showing her face, that's trust, she's saying she trusts you and is willing to put herself on the line for you, it means something vs if its someone who it doesn't mean anything to her because she doesn't care or is a porn star and is comfortable showing her body anyway. It works the same with sex acts and why submissives progressively do more extreme sex acts over time when they find new partners. They have to show the new one that the new relationship is more important to her than the old one, which means going further out of her comfort zone as opposed to people who settle on each other just end up going through the motions in a relationship out of convenience, but they grow complacent and resentful. Particularly since a lot of women have a complex about the sanctity of their body since society puts a bunch of deranged shit in their head from childhood. It says a lot if she's able to put that stuff aside and put her focus on a relationship with a single person regardless of what it might look like on the outside. I've dated women who were a lot more experienced than me and their limits had been pushed so far that I realized I would have to do things I actually wasn't comfortable doing to get her off, like to stand out from previous partners, things I'm not sure anyone mentally healthy would be willing to do outside of a one time novelty lmao. But going back to nat, that's why the fetish shit you end up doing with her means something, she's a vanilla wife who is going far outside of her comfort zone and doing things that are undignified of a woman of her stature, all because her husband ended up with a porn induced fetish. Instead of treating him and his sexual satisfaction like a problem to avoid or to cure, she treated it as something important to her. That relationship I talked about earlier fell apart because I didn't want to continue escalating the degrading shit she needed me to do to her to get her off, I wasn't worth it to her and my own mental sanctity wasn't important enough to her compared to her wanting to get off in more extreme ways. That's why the idea of nat going so far for her husband at the expense of herself appeals to me, it shows you she cares a lot, enough to be a nasty whore just for him. It ultimately adds more meaning if you give both of them the option to go back to vanilla to show 1 he can give up his fetish and put his wife over his fetish, and 2 that she can give up what we're led to believe is really good sex and put her husband over sexual gratification, or from a another more vanilla angle that she can recognize that there are lines that you shouldn't cross and decides to put an end to it so that she can still look herself in a mirror and call herself a good wife. Like the idea of her getting pregnant by some other dude as a fetish fine, in practice it's bad and especially since ethan chooses to let nat lead and decide where their relationship goes, you get more meaning from her being the one who reigns his fetish in to keep it from going out of control. It's why the scene in the update meant something that she wanted her husband to fuck her rather than kicking him out. She knew he would accept being kicked out cuz he's in full sub mode, so her telling him to fuck her after they filmed their video shows that the purpose of everything they did up to that point was to build his arousal. It just sucks the actual sex scenes were kind of terrible and ethan and nat had like a 10 second scene.
So yea hope that mess helped you understand better from my perspective at least. The dudes who for them its an expression of their own submissiveness it's basically all the stuff I described about how low the woman is willing to go for someone she cares for. For that kind of husband him able and willing to suffer for his wife, and even for her pleasure while she does things that are degrading to him like cheating on him and calling him inferior etc, that's just a masochistic expression of love. Some people find their meaning through how much they suffer for the people they care about. I'm of the personal opinion that someone who loves you finds meaning in how much they can relieve suffering or bring joy, but different strokes different folks.
Either way nat is hot. Would be nice if an ethan dom route happens eventually I know the point system is there and riya is there. Be good to see a threesome route or a nat sub route where she winds up in a collar. Probably wishful thinking on my part. Either way glad the game is popping off and continuing to get regular updates. Seems like most of the games on here fall off a cliff once the author realizes how much work needs to go into finishing a game and keeping it coherent and well paced all the way to the end. Some people are complaining that this games becoming too singular but it's like unless you're willing to pay the man to quit his job and work on this full time, finishing the game and making sure all the routes are well polished and completed with multiple endings is a lot of time and effort.
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I wonder if the Peter route will be where!
- he slowly corrupts Nat and starts fucking her
- turns her against Ethan so they don’t have sex
- buys her lots of gifts
- switches her birth control out for fake ones
- creates a dependency
Yes, I like how you pointed out how he is a bit one-dimensional unless you play the other routes and can piece his personality together.
I like him with Riya. When he is forward with Jenna. When he stands up to Darrel. And of course, when he stands up to Nat. Those times he was great. However, that aspect of his personality does not stand up to the narrative of a man that would stand back and let Darrel completely control Natalie.
I've met men who enjoy sharing their wives as submissive men but aren't submissive in any other part of their lives. In the case of visual novels like these, I think it is easier to create and believe this one-sided, weak-minded man-child who is incapable of meeting the needs of such a voluptuous, deeply wanting woman!
It is interesting how our emotions change from support to flogging a guy when we think he doesn't deserve the loyalty of a woman that he cannot fight for.
That has to be one of the best explanations for a deeply psychological phenomenon I have ever read. So much so that I am going to have to save that for reference when I am writing that part of a character! Thank you for sharing a highly personal aspect of your lifestyle!
As it is portrayed in this VN (and many like it) and in your description, it is a complete enigma to me and just fascinating. And certainly not my thing! I can absolutely understand the aspect of a partner sacrificing everything, including their dignity, for their love. The idea of sharing one's partner, while there are many aspects of it, also relies strongly on this idea of doing everything to bring happiness to your partner. Sometimes it is the sacrifice the one makes that allows the partner to experience sex that he is just not able to give (e.g. the QoS, size queens, cuckoldry, hotwife, etc.). Or the sacrifice to sleep with anyone/everyone that the partner wants to bring happiness to him (e.g. whoring, sharing, gangbangs, swinging, etc.). [Those examples are not exclusive.]
Fetishes are often born of trauma. Sex and trauma have an interesting connection in our lives. While there may be real arguments for what is healthy for an individual or relationship, there is no real morality that can be applied. This is why we should never judge each other's sexual wants and desires. What is one person's "worst kind of woman" may be another's "ideal woman."
A true measurement of quality for me is the ability of these stories to stay true to a fantasy while not betraying the reality of the character. Specifically, the ability of King B to show how Natalie can play into the role of the hotwife while staying true to her husband. Or how the couple engaging in sharing activities contributes to the wholesomeness of their 'duet of love and lust.' Obviously, the cheating path is destructive and has no redeemable qualities. But in the reality of the lifestyle, the IDEA of cheating is played with in many alternative ways that never break the sanctity of the marital bond.
I think we see this best on the exhibition path and the sharing path. We see Natalie's expanding ideas of what is right and wrong, possible and impossible. We are shown how this fuels the couple's lovemaking. And ultimately, how it strengthens their marriage. In comparison, the cuckold path has shown no redeeming qualities to the couple, SO FAR. It could be the nature of how the game is being episodically developed and released. But the paths that have received the most attention are the cuckold and cheating paths. And they don't currently demonstrate a good foundation of support for the marriage. It is about how Darrel feels, and what he is personally conquering. Or how Natalie is feeling and how she separates herself further from her husband. We see how Ethan is negatively affected. Those scenes have not been used effectively to show how the couple reunites and uses the sexual material together.
Like you, I hope that King B does bring these pieces together. It would take this VN over the top for sure.
And seriously, thank you for sharing such a deep and fascinating look into that lifestyle.
- May 6, 2023
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Wow you wrote a novel lol. Thanks for the insight. Its an interesting perspective. I mean that in a genuine way. I find learning others people's perspectives to be quite fascinating even if they are different from mine. Sexuality is a wide spectrum and I find that fascinating.
My wife and I operate a different way. We have very similar perspectives and boundaries on what we will and wont do. It's one of the things that attracted me about her decades ago. Its fortunate as she is fiercely independent and protective of our relationship. I am more laid back, but I'm no push over either. On the rare occasion we differ we can clash, but we have always work it out eventually. We have in the last few years pushed those boundaries and we are very happy where we are now so neither of us feels the need to push any further. If either one of us does want too we will communicate and work out what is best for us as we have done for the last two decades. I'm a fortunate man.
I guess we could push those boundaries to see how far we would go for each other but we don't see the point. Things are wonderful for us, so we don't see a reason to risk it. Plus I'm getting too old to chase boundaries. Take care.
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More like an orgy party. At least, so far that is what you get down that path.
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I played a path where Ethan does not forgive Nat and where she moves out.
Nat is living at Jenna's home, but Nat is not going with Jenna to the sex party.
I would like to see how this route will play out in the future.