Ren'Py A House in the Rift [v0.7.10b1] [Zanith]

[segaegae]

What initiatives does MC consciously take? Except to peep at the shower and things like that, when girls allow him, I mean. How he makes the plot advance? He only says "yes" to initiatives that the girls propose. And he only gets laid because of the succubus "aura", apparently... Also, it seems that he doesn't know about half of the things that happens in the house around him with the girls. He's the MC but he's not even the most important person in the house. Rae is. He's important just because he, for some unknown reason, has a power that he even doesn't understand or knows where it comes from. The girls need him to be able to go out of the house. If not, he could stay in her room and die, and the girls would just continue their lives. That's not an attractive MC to play as.

And yes, MC has such an uninteresting life that he doesn't even care about what he left behind. His life isn't even interesting for him!

Actually it is even worse. MC is important just because Rae says he is, and he lives on just because Rae likes it that way...
The whole thing is pretty crazy when you think about it. Except for Rae and maybe a bit Lyriel, NONE in the house has slightest idea about the what is going on, and everyone get their information (indirectly) from Rae.

 

[segaegae]

What initiatives does MC consciously take? Except to peep at the shower and things like that, when girls allow him, I mean. How he makes the plot advance? He only says "yes" to initiatives that the girls propose. And he only gets laid because of the succubus "aura", apparently... Also, it seems that he doesn't know about half of the things that happens in the house around him with the girls. He's the MC but he's not even the most important person in the house. Rae is. He's important just because he, for some unknown reason, has a power that he even doesn't understand or knows where it comes from. The girls need him to be able to go out of the house. If not, he could stay in her room and die, and the girls would just continue their lives. That's not an attractive MC to play as.

And yes, MC has such an uninteresting life that he doesn't even care about what he left behind. His life isn't even interesting for him!

The point of MC here is, dev tries to immerse you as MC, so dev doesn't want you to suddenly have some unknown friend for a long time. You may think that MC is thinking\dreaming\talking about his past life when you close the game.

 

[sillyrobot]

Well, we don't know. We don't even know if MC is handsome, intelligent, or has some abilities that could make him an attractive person for the opposite sex. He's just a blank canvas, as you say. I don't know, he could be an athlete and have an excellent physical condition. Could have a military background and to be brave and skillful. Could be a doctor or a scholar and be wise and cultured... Or any other thing you could imagine. He could be an adventurer and end up in the house in the rift because he was exploring an ancient tomb, Indiana Jones style, and suffer some kind of curse... But he's nothing. Probably just a boring and bored salaryman, since it seems the dev is Japanese.

He's not an athlete otherwise the physical training wouldn't have the quick impact it did. He's not decrepit or very out of shape though for the same reason and the fact he can learn basic fight moves easily.

He doesn't have a military or police background because he has very limited combat moves as demonstrated with everybody.

Her's basically a graduate from university that's been living on his own for a couple of years.

 

[sillyrobot]

Rae was created as a magical being, and has been trained for thousands of years maybe, so I wouldn't be surprise that she is the best warrior in the house.

There are rules and conventions, but unfortunately people don't always agree on them, especially these imaginary characters could come from different tales of people in different places. For what I know, a succubus does use magic, right? So she could be wielding those weapons mostly by magic. She could be punching your face with magic.
And for what I know, in some rules a succubus is fundamentally evil, lying, cheating, charming peoples with magic, and feeding on people's life force. MC could be dead as soon as Rae found out he is not mage.

I agree Rae is over powered, almost all mighty. I personally think it is alright. But to each their own.

It is not important to train MC as a fighter. This training is just a not so vital event about Rae.

Rae is probably not just a succubus. There's a comment from Naomi at one point that very heavily implies she's a half-breed. Her mentor chiding her about caring for others is another clue to the same conclusion.

Rae is probably over a century old though. She's been working in the field for over 40 years and she mentions mana-touched beings take a long time to learn things.

 

[Name356]

He's not an athlete otherwise the physical training wouldn't have the quick impact it did. He's not decrepit or very out of shape though for the same reason and the fact he can learn basic fight moves easily.

He doesn't have a military or police background because he has very limited combat moves as demonstrated with everybody.

Her's basically a graduate from university that's been living on his own for a couple of years.

Yes, what I say: a salaryman. The dev could create any kind of MC (athlete, military, scholar, adventurer... whatever), but he decided to make him as boring and bored as possible.

 

[sillyrobot]

What initiatives does MC consciously take? Except to peep at the shower and things like that, when girls allow him, I mean. How he makes the plot advance? He only says "yes" to initiatives that the girls propose. And he only gets laid because of the succubus "aura", apparently... Also, it seems that he doesn't know about half of the things that happens in the house around him with the girls. He's the MC but he's not even the most important person in the house. Rae is. He's important just because he, for some unknown reason, has a power that he even doesn't understand or knows where it comes from. The girls need him to be able to go out of the house. If not, he could stay in her room and die, and the girls would just continue their lives. That's not an attractive MC to play as.

And yes, MC has such an uninteresting life that he doesn't even care about what he left behind. His life isn't even interesting for him!

Well, he says yes to what the women propose at his whim. I didn't take Naomi to her ship for a couple of months, for example. It just didn't interest me.

There is a limit to player agency in interactive games. Players can only be proactive within the confines of the universe the devs can create. In Cybrpunk 2077, what proactive actions can the MC take other than buying stuff and attacking people on the street, for example? Everything else is "saying yes" to someone. A few of the areas where the MC is proactive is dealing with the group dynamic in general. Now those are forced to a specific outcome so the choices feel less valuable to the player. Personally, I would have preferred my MC to discover what happens to people who leave the house when I toss her out the front door after she locked Cait out without her clothes, but I have very little tolerance for Tsundere characters. Thankfully, the dev very quickly toned her behaviour down after that incident or I'd have been done with the game.

The MC is in effect on a journey from zero to hero. He's the "Chosen One" -- the one with a singular ability that forces him into a protagonist role because that ability is necessary for the task at hand. He starts as an "Everyman" and grows into the "Hero" role as he gains experience and training.

To compare to a modern work, Luke Skywalker was a zero and Obi Wan Kenobi could be viewed and a the primary character in Star Wars. After all, what did Luke manage to do, really? The MC is the Luke equivalent.

Rae fills the archetype of "Sage" or "Mentor". She the font of wisdom and knowledge the others can use. She can guide others but not complete the task at hand.

I don't want the next part to sound harsh. The MC's failure to explore the ramifications of his world and his place in it is a failure of the writing. Either the dev has a blind spot and literally hasn't considered how his choice to allow the MC to have a non-estranged family and normal life prior to the incident should lead to him attempting to discover what has happened over the last few months OR the dev is attempting to keep the events in the world unknown from the player to maintain suspense in a way that forces the MC to carry the idiot ball and simply never ask basic questions. Either way, I think it fails a basic sniff test.

 

[Name356]

Well, he says yes to what the women propose at his whim. I didn't take Naomi to her ship for a couple of months, for example. It just didn't interest me.

There is a limit to player agency in interactive games. Players can only be proactive within the confines of the universe the devs can create. In Cybrpunk 2077, what proactive actions can the MC take other than buying stuff and attacking people on the street, for example? Everything else is "saying yes" to someone. A few of the areas where the MC is proactive is dealing with the group dynamic in general. Now those are forced to a specific outcome so the choices feel less valuable to the player. Personally, I would have preferred my MC to discover what happens to people who leave the house when I toss her out the front door after she locked Cait out without her clothes, but I have very little tolerance for Tsundere characters. Thankfully, the dev very quickly toned her behaviour down after that incident or I'd have been done with the game.

The MC is in effect on a journey from zero to hero. He's the "Chosen One" -- the one with a singular ability that forces him into a protagonist role because that ability is necessary for the task at hand. He starts as an "Everyman" and grows into the "Hero" role as he gains experience and training.

To compare to a modern work, Luke Skywalker was a zero and Obi Wan Kenobi could be viewed and a the primary character in Star Wars. After all, what did Luke manage to do, really? The MC is the Luke equivalent.

Rae fills the archetype of "Sage" or "Mentor". She the font of wisdom and knowledge the others can use. She can guide others but not complete the task at hand.

I don't want the next part to sound harsh. The MC's failure to explore the ramifications of his world and his place in it is a failure of the writing. Either the dev has a blind spot and literally hasn't considered how his choice to allow the MC to have a non-estranged family and normal life prior to the incident should lead to him attempting to discover what has happened over the last few months OR the dev is attempting to keep the events in the world unknown from the player to maintain suspense in a way that forces the MC to carry the idiot ball and simply never ask basic questions. Either way, I think it fails a basic sniff test.

Well, let's talk about a better (IMO) game than Cyberpunk from the same company: The Witcher III. Geralt of Rivia is a nobody doo, but can take initiatives and at the end, people lives or dies because of him (even if he doesn't kill them) and even the future of a kingdom depends of his acts.

Luke Skywalker is a nobody at first when Obi Wan Kenobi finds him because he's a just a teenager and he spends a lot of time training with him and Yoda before doing something. But then he becomes in someone and does things. Saving Leia at the beginning of the third movie, for example, fighting Darth Vader, gaining the friendship and respect of Han Solo and other characters... And even when he's just a trainee, he has a background. He's a good pilot. He knows about robots and how to repair them. He has hopes and dreams... What do we know about MC hopes and dreams, abilities, past...? Nothing. How MC changes during his journey so far? Well, he learns some magic abilities for the benefit of the plot, but he doesn't seem to be wiser, kinder or more charming than at the beginning of the game, or change his personality. He's doesn't evolve, is the same blank canvas. For example, he can be a nice guy or an asshole that gives rude answers and pervs the girls the day 1 and the day 365. How could someone empathize as a player with a character like this one?

I suspect that most of the people just forget about MC when playing, and look at the girls.

 

[segaegae]

Geralt of Rivia is a nobody doo

Lol.

 

[segaegae]

Rae is probably not just a succubus. There's a comment from Naomi at one point that very heavily implies she's a half-breed. Her mentor chiding her about caring for others is another clue to the same conclusion.

Rae is probably over a century old though. She's been working in the field for over 40 years and she mentions mana-touched beings take a long time to learn things.

I don't recall Naomi commented anything like that. Naomi could probably not tell anyway. The only thing I could remember about this is imp, used first by lyriel.
Also rae should be much older than a century. That 40 years was just a few assignment. Although there is no direct reference(?) I believe Rae has witnessed and maybe also fought in the slaughter against demons three centuries ago. So I would say her age would be at least four centuries or so.

 

[sillyrobot]

Well, let's talk about a better (IMO) game than Cyberpunk from the same company: The Witcher III. Geralt of Rivia is a nobody doo, but can take initiatives and at the end, people lives or dies because of him (even if he doesn't kill them) and even the future of a kingdom depends of his acts.

Luke Skywalker is a nobody at first when Obi Wan Kenobi finds him because he's a just a teenager and he spends a lot of time training with him and Yoda before doing something. But then he becomes in someone and does things. Saving Leia at the beginning of the third movie, for example, fighting Darth Vader, gaining the friendship and respect of Han Solo and other characters... And even when he's just a trainee, he has a background. He's a good pilot. He knows about robots and how to repair them. He has hopes and dreams... What do we know about MC hopes and dreams, abilities, past...? Nothing. How MC changes during his journey so far? Well, he learns some magic abilities for the benefit of the plot, but he doesn't seem to be wiser, kinder or more charming than at the beginning of the game, or change his personality. He's doesn't evolve, is the same blank canvas. For example, he can be a nice guy or an asshole that gives rude answers and pervs the girls the day 1 and the day 365. How could someone empathize as a player with a character like this one?

I suspect that most of the people just forget about MC when playing, and look at the girls.

As for Geralt, at no point is he a zero (by the game start anyway. He's more of a zero a century or so earlier). But the narrative arc for Geralt is more "recovery of power".

That game is a bit more of a sandbox, it is true. Cyberpunk is less a sandbox and more an action-led tactical game. This game is less sandbox and more visual novel with some player controlled situations.

Luke is a zero that grows into a hero. A moisture farmer? How boring! Why didn't the writer make him something more interesting like a stormtrooper!
The MC is a zero that is growing into a hero. A salaryman? How boring! Why didn't the writer make him something nore interesting!

The reason is the same. The growth is the narrative.

As for the fact the player is provided dialogue options, the game assumes some desire for interactivity. The options I choose will be different from the options you choose. The growth of the personality, if any, will vary based upon player choice. How I decide the MC grows can be different from how any other players chooses to evolve the character. For that you need a continuum of choice so a player who wants to start polite but descend into assholery has as much choice as someone who wants the reverse.

I'd prefer if the MC's tone and choices had an effect on the other character's interactions with the MC, but I suspect we're at the limit of what the dev wants/can handle with respect to such alternatives.

 

[sillyrobot]

I don't recall Naomi commented anything like that. Naomi could probably not tell anyway. The only thing I could remember about this is imp, used first by lyriel.
Also rae should be much older than a century. That 40 years was just a few assignment. Although there is no direct reference(?) I believe Rae has witnessed and maybe also fought in the slaughter against demons three centuries ago. So I would say her age would be at least four centuries or so.

I'd have to go back and play the game again to find it and I don't have that in me right now. It's after Cait joins the house and may be after Lyriel arrives. Rae, Naomi and the MC are discussing something a human needs to do (I have no idea what). The following is paraphrased from memory:

Naomi says something like "Why don't you do it?".
Rae replies "As you pointed out, I'm a succubus."
Naomi replies "Yeah but..."
Rae replies "I can't"
Naomi replies "Ah Won't talk about it now. Got it."

Naomi is a witch with second sight. If anyone could know, it would be her. Lyriel's calling Rae imp is just perjorative like her calling Naomi brute.

As for her age, I was giving a lower bound. Nothing earlier is really ever discussed. She is obviously affected by the plight of her people, but there's no indication she was directly involved.

 

[Cartageno]

Yes, what I say: a salaryman. The dev could create any kind of MC (athlete, military, scholar, adventurer... whatever), but he decided to make him as boring and bored as possible.

Which would raise the question though: what good would an athlete MC (to grab the first of your examples) do if the story doesn't use the "athlete". Sure, it could also be a story where he can do certain stuff because of his muscles or endurance or what have you but that would not just be a different character but also a different story.

And having a bland MC as in "no real discernable skills other than an average guy on the street would have" has the advantage of allowing for growth, not only in story (though that might be the most important) but also in game mechanisms, which is why you see so many more "bland" MCs in boxes, even light ones, than in straight up VNs. If a guy has been a high school athlete for years and was considered for the Olympic team, there is no way in game you can raise his athleticism while in the house, any task that could be solved by his skills would not be an obstacle, and so on.

I don't mean to say that an athlete MC is impossible, but there are indeed good reasons for the blank canvas. And there are good reasons to consider that boring and not feel motivated to follow Blandy McBlandfaces life story.

 

[segaegae]

I'd have to go back and play the game again to find it and I don't have that in me right now. It's after Cait joins the house and may be after Lyriel arrives. Rae, Naomi and the MC are discussing something a human needs to do (I have no idea what). The following is paraphrased from memory:

Naomi says something like "Why don't you do it?".
Rae replies "As you pointed out, I'm a succubus."
Naomi replies "Yeah but..."
Rae replies "I can't"
Naomi replies "Ah Won't talk about it now. Got it."

Naomi is a witch with second sight. If anyone could know, it would be her. Lyriel's calling Rae imp is just perjorative like her calling Naomi brute.

As for her age, I was giving a lower bound. Nothing earlier is really ever discussed. She is obviously affected by the plight of her people, but there's no indication she was directly involved.

I cannot find the conversation, and I think you probably mismatch two conversations:
One is Naomi asks why mc hasn't do anything about the house, and rae explains he needs more training.
The other is MC asking about the Sealed Sound:
mainchar "Is this something I should know about?"
scene story_8_cait_appears_07_01 #naomi incredulous + 07_01
naomi "Ya don't?"
mainchar "No-o-o?.."
naomi "Esha, what's with that?"
scene story_8_cait_appears_07_02 #rae + 07_02
azrae "Why are you asking me?"
naomi "Ya know why."
mainchar "I don't."
naomi "Ah, later."

While there is no direct reference, rae reacts strongly about this plight, so it is likely she is involved and suffered greatly. Otherwise, it could probably be just a tale, story, history for her. I mean, WW2 is less than 80 years ago and yet...

 

[heretic god]

the gallery unlocker does not work for some reason

 

[sillyrobot]

I cannot find the conversation, and I think you probably mismatch two conversations:
One is Naomi asks why mc hasn't do anything about the house, and rae explains he needs more training.
The other is MC asking about the Sealed Sound:
mainchar "Is this something I should know about?"
scene story_8_cait_appears_07_01 #naomi incredulous + 07_01
naomi "Ya don't?"
mainchar "No-o-o?.."
naomi "Esha, what's with that?"
scene story_8_cait_appears_07_02 #rae + 07_02
azrae "Why are you asking me?"
naomi "Ya know why."
mainchar "I don't."
naomi "Ah, later."

While there is no direct reference, rae reacts strongly about this plight, so it is likely she is involved and suffered greatly. Otherwise, it could probably be just a tale, story, history for her. I mean, WW2 is less than 80 years ago and yet...

It's a conversation with Naomi, Rae, and Caitlin talking about the house

Rae: His innate power is great but he can barely tap into it. Find some literature that will explain how you humans interact with magic.
Naomi: Ya keep saying humans like ya ain't one.
Rae: I think we established quite clearly that I am not.
Naomi: Being coy again. Ya a fine gyal, Esha, no need to pretend.
... <more stuff not related>

 

[Master of Puppets]

It's a conversation with Naomi, Rae, and Caitlin talking about the house

Rae: His innate power is great but he can barely tap into it. Find some literature that will explain how you humans interact with magic.
Naomi: Ya keep saying humans like ya ain't one.
Rae: I think we established quite clearly that I am not.
Naomi: Being coy again. Ya a fine gyal, Esha, no need to pretend.
... <more stuff not related>

Naomi is clearly taking the piss out of Rae, because she pretended to be human before and Naomi saw right through it. So now she's teasing her about it.

 

[sillyrobot]

Naomi is clearly taking the piss out of Rae, because she pretended to be human before and Naomi saw right through it. So now she's teasing her about it.

You think? I read it more as "I can see your true nature you know. If you're embarrassed, I'll drop it for now."

The dev ain't subtle with his foreshadowing.

 

[Evil13]

You think? I read it more as "I can see your true nature you know. If you're embarrassed, I'll drop it for now."

Its more like "Yeah, I know you're trying to be sneaky and tricky, but it hasn't fooled me, but you and I both know its a game of wits, so I'm happy to play along."

In essence, Naomi is telling Rae not to underestimate her either.

 

[DBAV]

Regarding choices it's obvious most are in the way, you can't call it characterization when the MC behaves submissive and like an asshole withing a span of three clicks, if you want to characterize a bland MC do it from the start, like when you meet Rae the first two or three choices determine how you will behave for the rest of the game, it just doesn't make any sense to behave like an asshole after establishing a proper relationship with her.

Regarding Rae she's been established as a "diplomat" in a backwards world probably discriminated and abused, so she developed her sassy persona but it's clear she wants to live in earth and let that life go but lacks the courage to take that step.

 

[segaegae]

You think? I read it more as "I can see your true nature you know. If you're embarrassed, I'll drop it for now."

The dev ain't subtle with his foreshadowing.

While since when does Naomi care about others being embarrassed? She makes embarrassing comments and jokes all the time.
I tend to agree Naomi is teasing Rae for pretending to be human. Besides it could probably just a comment on the fact that Rae behaves very much similar to human such that Naomi would forget rae is in fact a succubus from time to time.