RPGM A Struggle with Sin [v0.5.8.5b] [Chyos]

[zARRR]

Cheese works better with my belly, mice can fuck off to Death.

How can cheese be a thing if there are no cows in the game tho?
Cows or no party
(It’s the milk discussion again isn’t it?)

 

[Yotetar]

We have a tavern with wine cellar, but not cheese? You see how barbaric and imcrompehensible is this?
You take wine with cheese if you dont want a full plate of food.
Unless Giron takes all the cheese from Lucius.

 

[Evangelion-01]

What "most important question" are you referring to? That isn't a rhetorical question. I genuinely want to know.

Because the reason why I said the "holiness" or "darkness" of the Golem origin is irrelevant here, is because the original discussion that was being had here was simply about creating and magically animating clay creatures.

So my original assertion, that this kind of magic is more akin to Jewish Golem magic rather than necromancy or voodoo, is still correct.

In addition, @Chyos could ultimately decide in his own tale whether to make Golems holy or dark, thus making the "holiness" or "darkness" of the Golem's origins even more irrelevant.

...Ok let's entertain you a bit more, I'll start from the end since it seems easier to go this way.

It is you that tries to bring in storylore by combining it with myth... I can't recall any discussions about Voodoo being done in the Posts I quoted as that stuff was discussed much earlier and ended with the same conclusion as before... to much effort for no apparent gain and several loopholes and story breaches... bringing up a dead horse to ride it again may fit the zombie Golems you have spoken of so far but it doesn't help with either the discussion nor makeing a point.

Or just have the MC mold a man/figure out of clay and then use the magic he learned from Gwen & Sabrina to animate it.

Don't see the need for a fully-automated factory to build a single man of clay.

Many artists have been able to create such a thing without the need of all the resources you've mentioned.

You're argument is like saying that the building of the second story to Emily's house shouldn't have happened because the technological know-how and equipment wouldn't have been available to medieval townsmen.

I think you're forgetting this is a fantasy game, not a historically accurate rendition of the middle ages.

I suspect you never worked with your hands in that pattern than... molding anything usuable requires knowledge of the material and skill... it's one thing to paint a stone wall with clay as mortar and something completly different useing clay to form an artistic body double.
And what skill does the MC have that would allow him to animate something inanimate?
Soul steal?... yeah that's not gonna fly far.

 

[Yotetar]

Anyway it is curious that we have traps to catch mice and hares, but we dont use bait to attract them into the traps. You dont see a bright future in the real life with that.
We should add alfalfa to the crops.
And start developing fishtraps, we have a river.More plates, more money. There is profit to be made.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Anyway it is curious that we have traps to catch mice and hares, but we dont use bait to attract them into the traps. You dont see a bright future in the real life with that.
We should add alfalfa to the crops.
And start developing fishtraps, we have a river.More plates, more money. There is profit to be made.

Just remember... the MC used to be a drunkard and sloth... meaning he has no idea about either hunting nor fishing... it was Corven that tought MC how to create some simple traps on the getgo that are a bit more complicated than a lasso on a tree.
I mean we still have the lure that Markus had kept in his room in the old shack for a predator... but without knowing how to use it MC could easily end as the prey instead of the hunter... Corven might come in handy again down the road in that regard... but he can't fish... noone in Arenfield apparently can.

 

[Yotetar]

Just remember... the MC used to be a drunkard and sloth... meaning he has no idea about either hunting nor fishing... it was Corven that tought MC how to create some simple traps on the getgo that are a bit more complicated than a lasso on a tree.
I mean we still have the lure that Markus had kept in his room in the old shack for a predator... but without knowing how to use it MC could easily end as the prey instead of the hunter... Corven might come in handy again down the road in that regard... but he can't fish... noone in Arenfield apparently can.

That's why it doesnt make sense that an experienced hunter doesnt tell him to use bait to attract those hares in a trap. You know that in real life. Hares are extremely intelligent, they are preys, they had thousands of years of evolution in their genes, where they learned how to breath, how to move, how to listen, how to not be predated.Their ancestors, the Amphilagus tomidai walked on Siberia 14 millions ago, for the record. No bait no gain,usually.

And because Corven taught us how to make skillfull traps, we can use that wisdom to improvise some rough fishtraps. That's a way to see how MC evolves as a hunter, developing skills to use in his enviroment.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

How can cheese be a thing if there are no cows in the game tho?
Cows or no party
(It’s the milk discussion again isn’t it?)

As far as i am concerned, plenty of two-legged cows in the game.

 

[Evangelion-01]

That's why it doesnt make sense that an experienced hunter doesnt tell him to use bait to attract those hares in a trap. You know that in real life. Hares are extremely intelligent, they are preys, they had thousands of years of evolution in their genes, where they learned how to breath, how to move, how to listen, how to not be predated.Their ancestors, the Amphilagus tomidai walked on Siberia 14 millions ago, for the record. No bait no gain,usually.

And because Corven taught us how to make skillfull traps, we can use that wisdom to improvise some rough fishtraps. That's a way to see how MC evolves as a hunter, developing skills to use in his enviroment.

well hunting and fishing are still 2 different occupations so I don't really see how he can grow into a fisher as hunter... and also there are several traps you place at animal crossings or at the entrance of their burrows that work without bait... pretty much obstruct their path and hope for atleast one to get tangled in the yarn loop he placed in that cage... I mean many of those traps break and it's not a 100% success rate with the traps... sure it can be improved but a trap with bait normally needs to be bigger than the prey and the constructions differs from those small traps Corven taught the MC about.
Wether the MC could figure this out himself or Corven actually helps him is the questions Chyos needs to decide on... for now Corven is to busy thinking about the Cult to teach MC becomeing a better hunter... but once they are dealt with he needs a new goal in live... unless he dies while takeing them down ofc

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Also you people are a little too into realism, this is a Fantasy game remember?
Things don't need to be terribly realistic.

 

[Cat-in-the-Hat]

About the traps:

Spoiler

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People not even paying attention, tsk tsk tsk.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Also you people are a little too into realism, this is a Fantasy game remember?
Things don't need to be terribly realistic.

Nonono... this is all about details... Chyos has shown that he pays an incredible deal on those... if you want to be convincing to him you need to think about those small things and only once you found a solid path you can reach the light and make a suggestion.

I mean there are plenty piles of straw... yet there is not a single sex scenes in them

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Nonono... this is all about details... Chyos has shown that he pays an incredible deal on those... if you want to be convincing to him you need to think about those small things and only once you found a solid path you can reach the light and make a suggestion.

I mean there are plenty piles of straw... yet there is not a single sex scenes in them

I honestly couldn't care less if he likes my ideas or not. Their loss if not as i say.
While it would be nice if some them got into the game, i won't lose any sleep if they don't.
If he likes his details so much he can just add those himself.
Also good observation about the straw lol. I was wondering about the barn too..

 

[Yotetar]

well hunting and fishing are still 2 different occupations so I don't really see how he can grow into a fisher as hunter... and also there are several traps you place at animal crossings or at the entrance of their burrows that work without bait... pretty much obstruct their path and hope for atleast one to get tangled in the yarn loop he placed in that cage... I mean many of those traps break and it's not a 100% success rate with the traps... sure it can be improved
but a trap with bait normally needs to be bigger than the prey and the constructions differs from those small traps Corven taught the MC about.Wether the MC could figure this out himself or Corven actually helps him is the questions Chyos needs to decide on... for now Corven is to busy thinking about the Cult to teach MC becomeing a better hunter... but once they are dealt with he needs a new goal in live... unless he dies while takeing them down ofc

Being a skillfull hunter doesnt being a skillfull fishman, but making traps it could be applied for both jobs.
In fact, with the experience of being a hunter, you can think: "Maybe a trap can works for fish too." And if we go more deep, one of those basic skills to survive in the world, it is about making traps with what you have on your enviroment. And you are more successfull making traps to catch fish without bait, than trying to catch hares.

Of course there are places where you can catch hares, or animals without the need of a bait. But those places are where they cannot see, putting traps in the middle of the field without bait it doesnt usually works.You cannot put traps without camouflage and bait in the middle of the field(like we do in the game) and expect: "Yes, a hare or a mice will walk here."
That works more in houses.
Also look at this beautifull mouse.


Corven is busy with the onanism, but maybe in the future.....

 

[Gorgis]

Hi i have a problem with Liandra quest, i cant put the wine down.
Is a bug?

 

[TheGrandMasterCory]

Nonono... this is all about details... Chyos has shown that he pays an incredible deal on those... if you want to be convincing to him you need to think about those small things and only once you found a solid path you can reach the light and make a suggestion.

I completely agree with you that Chyos pays an incredible amount of attention to every detail in his game.

It's one of the things that makes A Struggle With Sin so immersive and engaging.

But I don't think this is a great counter to VoidTraveler's point.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can have a very detailed-oriented, fantasy story without it being hyper-realistic.

 

[Evangelion-01]

I completely agree with you that Chyos pays an incredible amount of attention to every detail in his game.

It's one of the things that makes A Struggle With Sin so immersive and engaging.

But I don't think this is a great counter to VoidTraveler's point.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can have a very detailed-oriented, fantasy story without it being hyper-realistic.

Not the first time I notice you are bad with sarcasm and jokeing about it...

 

[TheGrandMasterCory]

Not the first time I notice you are bad with sarcasm and jokeing about it...

As is often said, sarcasm is really difficult to read on the internet.

Maybe try putting a "/s" to make it more clear next time.

 

[Evangelion-01]

As is often said, sarcasm is really difficult to read on the internet.

Maybe try putting a "/s" to make it more clear next time.

You know if you followed my posts you'd notice that I only use emoticons when I imply that I am jokeing... and if you check back on that post what do you find at the end?... right an easy indicator for a joke post... not that the content of the post wasn't obvious enough...

 

[indiehindi]

When I said "avatars," I meant the actual movable/playable characters in the game. The ones that move around and interact with the game world. If that's what models are, then yes, I do mean models.

Thank you for this very detailed explanation indiehindi! It's incredible, mate.

This has really enlightened me on the various aspects of the RPGM game development process.

I guess the last question I have is in regards to A Struggle With Sin's avatars/models.

Essentially, why exactly is it that A Struggle With Sin looks so different from all the other RPG-Maker games out there?

What is Chyos doing to make his game world and his avatars/models look so different from everything else?

And ultimately, what exactly would someone have to do to if they wanted to make an RPGM game where the RPGM world in which the characters move and interact looks like the RPGM world of A Struggle With Sin, but have the character stills (the images of the characters that pop up when you talk to them), the cut-scenes, and the animated h-scenes look like the one's from Peasant's Quest - link?

There are multiple reasons it looks different.

The map:
He's using a technic called "parallax mapping". Which is creating different layers for the map; the background > terrain > flora > objects (buildings & trees etc.) > the lights > the shadows. Its mostly done with photoshop then maps get imported into RPG maker. The sun rays you see in the game for example, are not actual effects its just a photoshop layer. This helps him create his own atmosphere.
Assets:
When you buy any RPG maker engine you also get free 2d assets. Most people rather use their custom assets, but as you see here in this forum, people rather use the vanilla assets (like Peasant's Quest) as on top of all the other work for 3d also creating your own 2d assets is quite hard. There are such games with custom 2d assets, I guess all the NLT media games?
They're all RPG maker engine so yeah.

At this point I should also explain that there's a difference inbetween the "pixel" styles and on top of that the pixel art is quite different than the "pixelized" asset.
Chyos is using pixellized assets. And sometimes even just the actual images themselves. Like the tables in tavern are pixelized images but the trees you cut down are just real images.
That mixture gives a unique feel to the game. And it also feels nostalgic for me. Its like 2000s, when developers could not decide if they wanna go with real images or pixels.

Mods & plug-ins:
As Evangelion-01 said; Chyos is utilizing dozens of plug-ins. If you check the credits, he lists them there, crediting the creators or such plug-ins.
Vanilla RPGM engines dont have such; lets say, crafting system, crafting menu, clock & time gui, quest log system and menu, video player etc. And we know that Chyos is coding plenty of such systems himself. That lets him go out of the boundaries of the engine and increase the quantites and qualities of possibilies for the gameplay.
Even the save system is custom if im not wrong.

Experience:
Well, he's a master with his craft, and thats just that. Can't explain it but only admire as I don't have the same experince.

Btw the 2d models in the game (not lewd scene animations) are just 2d images, cant say they are not models as for the industry lingo, such are considered to be models /mesh. But these are 2d images with a sprite sheet.
Ok thats a little complicated. Lets say for walking animation of your model you would create 8 frames of movement. Starting by the first one you create / paint / model the character and you alter it for each frame to make the movement.
At the last frame you make sure it loops as those 8 frames were a .gif file. And when you import that into the engine and use it for walking animation, the engine itself turns it into a gif. When you walk its just a gif that is animating, when you stop it reverts back to a still image.
With 2d animations you gotta do it for atleast 4 directions up, down, left, right obviously. Some go further and add the diagonal movements too.
With 3d models its kind of... easier... Naahh its not. But atleast the 3d model has bones (hopefully) and if the engine supports it you can just make it walk.
So... Instead of using pixels (like in every other RPGM) Chyos renders actual model imagers for each movement frame.
And hes doing that for each and every character.
I just got tired explaining it Its a lot of work

 

[TheGrandMasterCory]

You know if you followed my posts you'd notice that I only use emoticons when I imply that I am jokeing... and if you check back on that post what do you find at the end?... right an easy indicator for a joke post... not that the content of the post wasn't obvious enough...

I may not be able to read sarcasm well, but I can read anger and frustration.

I didn't mean to make you feel those emotions, mate. I was just trying to have some light conversation.

In your post, the winking emoticon was only after the last sentence, so I assumed only that portion of your post was a joke.


Then, no offense buddy, but I don't really follow your posts that closely. I don't follow anyone's post here that closely.

Therefore, you must forgive me if I don't immediately pick up on your hints/habits that indicate a hidden/alternate message.


In the end, I appreciate all the times you've helped me or provided with me valuable information, Evangelion-01! I really do!!

But f9zone and this thread aren't my biggest focus.
This is just a place I keep open in the background while I work/focus on several other things.


But I guess I've overstayed my welcome and will stop posting for a while.

Thanks once again for all the times you helped me, Evangelion-01 and zARRR and everyone else.

And my mistake for not picking up on the sarcasm or getting the joke.