VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.201] [Lust & Passion]

[abram1]

What an idiotic post.

How dare people try to find solutions for issues that even the main dev admits that they exist and take too much of his (personal) time?

And then to top it off, posts a 1551 patreon count like is something that helps his argument. It doesn't.
Here's a top 11 of adult game patreons.
AWAM VN is just a notch below DPC's BADIK (in terms of overall quality) and only has 10% of his patreons.
Assuming that what L&P is saying is true in terms of working 11h monday to sunday, if you think that 7k a month and 1500 patreons is something to be proud of while other people are making 7x -10x more with worse games quality wise, then you're an idiot.

DPC is pulling at least 7x the money L&P is pulling for a game that has a bit worse renders (it's still very good quality), better story (it has developed more so far so only in the end we will be able to judge) and better replayability/in game perks/random stuff to do ingame.

All suggestions are made with the intent of getting updates faster / give more time to L&P / increasing quality of the game therefore also increasing his profits which will be reflected by his patreon numbers.

Successfull ventures, wether its a normal business, a big business or a small porn biz online arent built on yes men and ball lickers.
They're built on constructive criticism and constant improvement.
If L&P manages to streamline his process and get good help, also leaving time for him to have a personal life like getting a dog (like he mentioned), why not propose stuff that can help?

Because abram1 is so touchy for other people's feelings that he takes every criticism as hate?

Thank you, my dear, now we are on the first name basis.
Before writing your elaborate post you should've read L&P's first post of the day slightly more meticulously, where he answers about all the "why's". His high standards are the reason, if you still can't comprehend it, I highlighted that especially for you.

Do you know the number of people, working on every VN from your list? Is it half a dozen, dozen or more? Don't say that's unimportant, the amount of dough left on the table at the end of the day - that's what matters. If it's 5 devs with 15k supporters - it's one thing, a dozen - a bit different. Outsourcing is always an issue, if you don't know what it means, just Google it.

You've suggested multiple times adding some collectibles and other nonsense. Go play an open-world AAA-game, cramped with that BS, I don't need any of that crap here. This game should and must stay as an interactive TV show, with multiple choices. Sometimes it's excessive, not for L&P, apparently.

You know, I really wonder, what makes you tick in that tiny head of yours. Lemme paraphrase it. Who said, that you so-called "constructive criticism" fits it's definition? Are you the head of the small enterprise, do you remotely understand how tiresome and frustrating it sometimes is, to manage your own business? Do you even grasp what a delegating of your responsonbilities means, specifically when your supposed substitute doesn't meet your individual criteria?

Before calling me funny names and giving labels always think, that a person, sitting on the other side of the keybord, may be a lot more experienced and well-informed, than you initially expected.

Have a bad day, kiddo!

 

[NykWolf]

OMG guys, calm the fuck down! 30 minutes per render adjustment is of course the exception and concerned rather only the wedding dress scene, especially because of the huge mirror in the room which makes it additionally very difficult together with a new technique I'm using. Interior scenes are of course much more complicated and time consuming to create than exterior!
And it's really funny how again people are whining about too many "unnecessary" renders without even having seen the update!
I already reduced massively the amount of so called "unnecessary" renders compared to the beginning! But the problem is what are "unnecessary" renders? For the most people here is any render unnecessary which doesn't include some sexual act or nudity! But this is not a porn video but a visual novel with a slowly story build up! And there's a certain amount of renders I need to tell a scene to make it plausible and immersive! Period! Plus I want them to look in a certain way! And if we spread the around 458 renders over the events created yet, then every event has actually a pretty reasonable amount of renders!

1st side job: 123
2nd side job: 224
Emma/Dylan part 1: 23 (+around 12 later for part 2)
Wedding dress: 88

I really would like to make a live stream for a few hours to show you how fucking much work it is to create these scenes together with the story and how much is needed for that! Especially if you want the renders to look like lately! But I also don't like to give a free tutorial of techniques and tricks I acquired myself in a couple of years!
I'd really like to see your reaction if I would lower the quality like it was at the beginning only to release faster updates. And make every scene which doesn't include sexual acts like the sauna scene with Vicky! If you would like that. But this is my game and I'm not up to destroy it this way!!!
And it's really easy to shout out "why doesn't he get some help" without knowing shit about how this development process even looks like! On the one hand you like the beautiful renders and also the event build up which needs a lot of planning. On the other hand you want me to stop spending so much time on that. But the one thing is connected with the other! All the help suggestions I heard yet wouldn't help at all! All the script writers I talked to yet, didn't satisfy me. I was looking for someone who could fill some story details so that I won't spend so much time on that but I also didn't find anyone here. I already said the only chance to speed up the development process noticeably would be to find someone with exactly the same style and taste and giving this total stranger hundreds of GB of my content and the responsibility to create some scenes on his very own! But instead he could also just redistribute these private files!

Hey calm and chill friend. These guys are idiots who really don't know how hard work it is. And you don't need to prove it for this guys because they find another reason why whining. You really do great job. True maybe little longer but still do and that's what matter. But hey! Stream or something like this are good idea. Someone can learn how create good images too.

 

[Bane71]

Well of all the extensive statement of L&P that could very easily save a prisoner who is on death row I will keep this simple and short sentence




We all want to see more updates more often because in our heads we always think that the faster the game progresses the faster we will get to the hot scenes but the truth is that we will never going have the one we are waiting for, if you are here waiting for Dylan to fuck Sophia while Marie and Emma eat each other pussy next to them that's not gonna happen, if you are here waiting for Sophia to fuck Ellie with a dildo or for Ellie to eat Sophia's pussy that's not gonna happen, if you are here waiting for Patricia and Sophia to have the best lesbian sex of their lives while they inserts dildos in their asses that's not gonna happen, if you are here waiting for Aiden and his three or four friends to fuck Sophia in an orgy that's not gonna happen and if you are here waiting for Sam to fuck Sophia in the pool while Dylan fucks Amber in the living room that's not gonna happen because as L&P said this is not a porn video it is a Visual Novel

At the end of the rainbow there is not a pot full of gold in the same way that at the end of AWAM there will not be a sex scene that complies our expectations

)))) I dare to hope that some fantasies will still come true! Not as radical as you described, but still.
I have always pointed out that it is L&P's fault when it strives for conditional realism. This is just a game and therefore you can afford more than in real life. Not to mention that in real life, much crazier things happen than you've described.

 

[Chucked_Sandwich]

Yes , lets take the word of the Dev on how long things are taking because thats how long it takes him to do it.

The Dev that takes a month to move house and a month to repair a graphics card.

 

[arifarfi]

Well, actually this started and was planned as a rather shorter one but ended in a larger one. But already told this before that I just can't estimate the amount of renders before not start working on the event. And there will be a progress in every single event! And in some even a really distinctive one! And the same effort I will also put later into sex scenes for which I'm planning to hire some pro animator because learning and doing this section would be really over the top.



Well, but here I also got a very special image in my head how this scene should look like. Plus, I'm very creative with mixing environments and create completly unique places. I didn't see anyone else doing it this way. And I got a folder with around 40 background characters and I always mixing them for every scene. So, someone doesn't need to create background characters. But for posing them he would need the whole environment setting which he also would need to create himself. But it will highly likely not correspond with how I pictured that scene.
And actually I'd love to find some way for help because this would also give me some time for myself! Since a while I'd like to have a dog but I just can't get one because I just wouldn't have any time for that animal. So, yeah, sooner or later there must be a solution for that.
And like I said, I try to reduce repetitive renders. But sometimes it's just when a character reacts surprised it's one expression and when he says something determinedly another. Then I use the same render with only editing the facial expression a little bit because for me a surprised reaction face just doesn't fit if the character says something determinedly or smirks etc.
And yeah, sometimes I also like to show a scene from two different angles.

hire someone to help you , otherwise you will lose patreon member.

 

[PietruccioTheHilander]

And the same effort I will also put later into sex scenes for which I'm planning to hire some pro animator because learning and doing this section would be really over the top.

i suggest you to cooperate with stoper or mrjet, based on what i know they are very good with animations

 

[PietruccioTheHilander]

But this is the biggest problem and is the root cause of the imbalance that I'm talking about. You need to have a plan, and you need to stick with it. We aren't talking about an update that was planned to have 400 renders, and ended up with 450; we're talking about an update that was planned for roughly (I think) 400 renders but will grow to almost 650. That's roughly 60% larger than you were originally planning. That's a big deal.

I've never made a game, so I try not to be too critical, but after five years of producing AWAM, I think you need to get a better sense of how large your updates will be. Again, it's one thing to go slightly over, but you've produced hundreds of extra images for this update. That's crazy. At some point, you just gotta say enough is enough, and wrap up the scene. These renders take you a long time, and if you aren't willing to cut the quality (personally, I felt that the 720p visuals were excellent and we didn't need 1080) then you should consider doing fewer renders.

This is a basic project management skill. It's hard, but it's a very important one. All of us have limited resources (time, money, technology, etc) and we have to balance them. Do you have a good idea of how many renders you can produce in a day/week/month? You need to start somewhere so that you balance your time and efforts because "small updates" should never turn into a "larger one". Something has to get cut, or something has to be limited, there needs to be compromise.

I read around or on discord that other developers have the same problem, only when you start working on a scene you know what you are talking about; even stoper always increases the renders compared to those planned.
you have to be a good scriptwriter to be able to plan the exact number in advance

 

[FdjsEre]

DPC

What an idiotic post.

How dare people try to find solutions for issues that

BADICK have more patrones because is male protagonist game.

 

[PietruccioTheHilander]

DPC
BADICK have more patrones because is male protagonist game.

badik was also released before AWAM (at least I think) so some supporters started supporting it first and then forgot about their subscription; I think it happens often otherwise I don't lose heart as icstor still has those supporters (some may be dead but their credit card keeps running)

 

[Alley_Cat]

Is it just me, or is there still no actual information from L&P about the update for us to get excited about? I mean there was a lot about how hard he works, but I don't think that was ever in question. How efficiently he works perhaps is, but not how hard.

I mean, the Bridal event is taking 90 renders, but is the event GW or Filthy? Lesbian or straight? Is the reason the 2nd side job event is taking as much as around half the last update because this is the "freaking hot" event we were promised? Are we going to meet Leah? Are we going to find out why Ava is such a religious nutjob? We still don't know if Aiden's 3rd task is going to be completed over the phone or some other location.

I have no doubt that if L&P wasn't so secretive about what he is planning, there wouldn't be any interest in making wild speculations that tends to happen in this thread, that he feels the need to squash like in posts he made earlier. Or that the game wouldn't arrive here shortly after the top-tier release. One of the games I actually now support on Patreon I do precisely because the dev is far more communicative. Hell, he even tells me what assets he uses in the game if I ask. And because of that he has my loyalty, so that if he posts something on Patreon, I wont post it here. He's on here often enough that he could post it here if he pleased anyway.

And with shorter update releases, we wouldn't get as bored as we do, further reducing the desire to speculate.

 

[Deleted member 3516371]

d) Sophia make love with her daughter

D

 

[Bane71]

Is it just me, or is there still no actual information from L&P about the update for us to get excited about? I mean there was a lot about how hard he works, but I don't think that was ever in question. How efficiently he works perhaps is, but not how hard.

I mean, the Bridal event is taking 90 renders, but is the event GW or Filthy? Lesbian or straight? Is the reason the 2nd side job event is taking as much as around half the last update because this is the "freaking hot" event we were promised? Are we going to meet Leah? Are we going to find out why Ava is such a religious nutjob? We still don't know if Aiden's 3rd task is going to be completed over the phone or some other location.

I have no doubt that if L&P wasn't so secretive about what he is planning, there wouldn't be any interest in making wild speculations that tends to happen in this thread, that he feels the need to squash like in posts he made earlier. Or that the game wouldn't arrive here shortly after the top-tier release. One of the games I actually now support on Patreon I do precisely because the dev is far more communicative. Hell, he even tells me what assets he uses in the game if I ask. And because of that he has my loyalty, so that if he posts something on Patreon, I wont post it here. He's on here often enough that he could post it here if he pleased anyway.

And with shorter update releases, we wouldn't get as bored as we do, further reducing the desire to speculate.

He wrote this today:-"Anyway, I just started with the "Aiden event" and there will be a new nice teaser very soon."

 

[nexer]

The only way to create a fixed number of renders is to sketch out in advance all the scenes with dialogue included. Even if you're not a good draftsman, something stylized with exact points, characters in the scene, camera position and dialogue between them is a must.
As the workflow is different, you get carried away and add details that seem important to you at the time.
My opinion is to start with sketches of the scenes first and once finished, DAZ and render without mercy.

So, he doesn't need a DAZ-pro, which is harder to find, but a draftsman/writer, who can work on a touch tablet doing sketches. Without sharing files, settings and all sorts of data. The collaborator only knows data about the upcoming update, even less, you can separate everything by scenes.

 

[Alley_Cat]

He wrote this today:-"Anyway, I just started with the "Aiden event" and there will be a new nice teaser very soon."

And ... ? Aiden hasn't even got Sophia to go pantiless. Even Bennett has got further, and we've gone on ad naseum how insignificant he is. As I've said before, compared to the Ellie route, that's several steps backwards. Unless Aiden can all of a sudden convince Sophia to go naked, I really see no point at all in Aiden's tasks.

Let me put it this way. If we refuse Aiden's tasks, Ellie gets naked more often. As soon as Dylan is at boarding school, which is where we are at the moment. So that is where Aiden's tasks need to be at in order for me to care about his tasks in the slightest. Of which there is no chance of happening. So why should I care about Aiden's tasks, when refusing them I get more naked Ellie?

 

[Taker Fan]

Update 0.130

(Noon)

1) Nursing home (1st side job) OR home schooling (2nd side job)

2) Aiden's 3rd task (parallelly another surprise event)

3) Emma/Dylan OR Sophia/Dylan


+ unexpected Bonus Bridal event
I guess it is to introduce bachelor/ette party down the line.

What are the other Events? Please a reminder for me. I had a long pause.

 

[nexer]

And ... ? Aiden hasn't even got Sophia to go pantiless.

How do you know? You peek at other people's path

 

[Bane71]

And ... ? Aiden hasn't even got Sophia to go pantiless. Even Bennett has got further, and we've gone on ad naseum how insignificant he is. As I've said before, compared to the Ellie route, that's several steps backwards. Unless Aiden can all of a sudden convince Sophia to go naked, I really see no point at all in Aiden's tasks.

Let me put it this way. If we refuse Aiden's tasks, Ellie gets naked more often. As soon as Dylan is at boarding school, which is where we are at the moment. So that is where Aiden's tasks need to be at in order for me to care about his tasks in the slightest. Of which there is no chance of happening. So why should I care about Aiden's tasks, when refusing them I get more naked Ellie?

You don't owe anything. But L&P doesn't owe anything either, it just informs us about the progress of work.

 

[Alley_Cat]

How do you know? You peek at other people's path

Obviously. You know full well I delve into the code. As I've said, I see no reason to do otherwise until their routes reach parity with what I play. Which is the Ellie/Patricia route.

 

[Okabe19]

Only thing which i dont like about this type of games are incest stuff, i love incest games as well as long as its not blood related. I'm fine with stepmom-stepson, with friend's mom or Aunt i'm fine with it but brother-sister just makes me puke and it doesnt matter even if they're step siblings i just cant get into it.

 

[Cold brew]

And ... ? Aiden hasn't even got Sophia to go pantiless. Even Bennett has got further, and we've gone on ad naseum how insignificant he is. As I've said before, compared to the Ellie route, that's several steps backwards. Unless Aiden can all of a sudden convince Sophia to go naked, I really see no point at all in Aiden's tasks.

Let me put it this way. If we refuse Aiden's tasks, Ellie gets naked more often. As soon as Dylan is at boarding school, which is where we are at the moment. So that is where Aiden's tasks need to be at in order for me to care about his tasks in the slightest. Of which there is no chance of happening. So why should I care about Aiden's tasks, when refusing them I get more naked Ellie?

Genius. I think I like Aiden even less now.