This makes sense.
And my gut tells me that, when (and if) we get to the sex scenes on all branches, he'll have less fun creating those than he has creating these big scenes.
- Thread starter CobraSGT
- Start date
And my gut tells me that, when (and if) we get to the sex scenes on all branches, he'll have less fun creating those than he has creating these big scenes.
- Apr 21, 2020
- 1,810
- 7,656
I am more satisfied with L&P's answer. But to some extent I feel sorry for him. Obviously, he is under pressure because of the timing of the updates.
I'm not the creator of AWAM, but I'm just scared to read how some people write so confidently here, how they would reduce the tex, a certain number of renderers!
You gentlemen and the creator of AWAM have different goals! Do your project according to your own principles, do not impose your own approaches on L&P, because it will no longer be AWAM, but something else if it starts doing as you say!
I will express some considerations that, in my opinion, can be acceptable both for L&P and for the vast majority of users of the game.
1. You can lower the image quality a little, returning to the previous one, which suited almost everyone, except for the L&P itself.
At the same time, keeping plans to improve the quality of renders, after the completion of the project.
(In my opinion, this is the easiest and most painless way to somewhat speed up the work and release time of updates.)
2.(This is a more difficult task, I can judge from my own experience! But it's overdue!)
L&P needs to bring in an assistant.
To do this, L&P must determine for itself what functions it can transfer to the assistant and how exactly to control the result of the work, so that in general there is an effect and the work goes faste.
I know that the second point is very difficult, there are many inadequate people who consider themselves great specialists. They will simply torment L&P with their appeals and will only take up precious time. But despite all the difficulties, I think it is necessary to start looking for an assistant.
I support L&P's perfectionism and attention to quality and detail at all 1000%, but there is a need to release updates once every 90 days, no more.
- May 24, 2020
- 261
- 1,690
L&P, easy-easy, my man! You don't need to explain yourself. Haters gonna hate anyway. Focus on your work, your Patreon numbers indicates that your real supporters are more than fine with production plan. All folks want is an update every month, preferably a full day, not a 1/3 of it. Ain't gonna happen.
Take your time. Concentrate on your game, not on a bunch of cry babies.
- Aug 23, 2020
- 2,505
- 11,977
We'll see how the next update goes. If those 600+ renders are put to good use and really advance the story, I'll be in agreement with you. And there's nothing wrong with him being an artist that wants to make great images (and I think all of us agree that the preview images look great), I just tend to think that his focus is more on the images than it is on the progression of the narrative. Maybe it's a chicken or egg situation, do the images exist to serve the narrative, or does the narrative exist to serve the images?
First of all, thank you for showing up Lust&Passion .
I don't think there's a single person here that doesn't admire the quality of your renders and the story you're trying to build.
In 1 update, it wont make much of a difference, but in a 10-12 year development, those renders are going to make a lot of a difference.
Keep in mind that we, the readers/players, on non sexy scenes, will be mainly read the text and barely notice those details.
We understand that you want the story to be and look beautiful but in a 10 year development, those details can be patched it at the end if you want it to be absolutely perfect. Truth is, 90% of the players won't notice it as they play.
Does it look great? Yes.
Should you switch to speed/quantity over quality? No.
Should you maybe tone down on those kind of renders so you can develop faster ( and again, if it saves you 3 days on each update that's a lot of days over 10 years)? Maybe you should think about it.
I think everyone here likes the build up and is ok with the in-game pacing. There's other games if people want to play an immediate fuckfest which loses interest right away.
Anyways, If that content is already made it means you made it in 2 months (from january 11 minus your surgery time and recovery and the GPU repairs). In my book that would be enough for an update, 4 events in 2 months, quite satisfactory.
NLT Media works with 1 event each 15 days plus a few collectibles, no one complains.
I think you should stay as the only renderer of the game. Without knowing your actual process (do you write the story before you start rendering or after?) it's not going to be easy to help you BUT there's several things that you could have help before each update.
For instance, since you use several new environments and plenty of characters, environment and clothing is something that consumes time and that someone else should be picking/doing for you. So right now as you finish your 0.130 version, you should have someone already working/rendering the environments for the next update and sending you clothing/items/props proposals for the next version according to your indications. Just screenshots to which you say yes or no.
Just those 2 little things would save you some days per each version cycle which then translate to months in the full development of the VN. Once next update comes, all you need to do is tweak the environment to your liking and apply the clothing/items/props. And liike these 2 things, there's more, but without knowing your whole process from start to finish, we would just be spitballing for no reason.
I think everyone here wants to see you succeed and I actually think it's good seeing you here defending your side, it shows that you're still interested in what you're doing.
Best of luck
I don't think there's a single person here that doesn't admire the quality of your renders and the story you're trying to build.
Having played THE FULL GAME without skipping a couple of days ago unecessary renders (for me) are renders where only a small detail like an eyebrow or a 10cm camera change happens.
In 1 update, it wont make much of a difference, but in a 10-12 year development, those renders are going to make a lot of a difference.
Keep in mind that we, the readers/players, on non sexy scenes, will be mainly read the text and barely notice those details.
We understand that you want the story to be and look beautiful but in a 10 year development, those details can be patched it at the end if you want it to be absolutely perfect. Truth is, 90% of the players won't notice it as they play.
Does it look great? Yes.
Should you switch to speed/quantity over quality? No.
Should you maybe tone down on those kind of renders so you can develop faster ( and again, if it saves you 3 days on each update that's a lot of days over 10 years)? Maybe you should think about it.
I think everyone here likes the build up and is ok with the in-game pacing. There's other games if people want to play an immediate fuckfest which loses interest right away.
Without seeing the scenes it's impossible to know if it 224 for an event was necessary so I'll reserve my thoughts for after the update but I'm going to trust your judgment on it or if an environment (with the kind of detail you put into it) used for 88 renders in a game that, if finished will have more than 50000, was time well spent. Again, you're the developer, it's your call.
Anyways, If that content is already made it means you made it in 2 months (from january 11 minus your surgery time and recovery and the GPU repairs). In my book that would be enough for an update, 4 events in 2 months, quite satisfactory.
NLT Media works with 1 event each 15 days plus a few collectibles, no one complains.
I'd pay quite well for a stream like this. Your renders are top notch and have been getting even better. Getting a shortcut for knowledge like that isn't free.
No one here wants that, most people are saying that there should be a middle ground between quality, nr of renders and speed of development that wont visibily lower the overall quality of your work/VN.
Without an NDA and proper vetting I highly recommend against sending your private files/morphs etc to anyone.
I think you should stay as the only renderer of the game. Without knowing your actual process (do you write the story before you start rendering or after?) it's not going to be easy to help you BUT there's several things that you could have help before each update.
For instance, since you use several new environments and plenty of characters, environment and clothing is something that consumes time and that someone else should be picking/doing for you. So right now as you finish your 0.130 version, you should have someone already working/rendering the environments for the next update and sending you clothing/items/props proposals for the next version according to your indications. Just screenshots to which you say yes or no.
Just those 2 little things would save you some days per each version cycle which then translate to months in the full development of the VN. Once next update comes, all you need to do is tweak the environment to your liking and apply the clothing/items/props. And liike these 2 things, there's more, but without knowing your whole process from start to finish, we would just be spitballing for no reason.
I think everyone here wants to see you succeed and I actually think it's good seeing you here defending your side, it shows that you're still interested in what you're doing.
Best of luck
the people and the 130 version wakes up interesting? Wait to download it or are the best waiting for the next update?
- Aug 23, 2020
- 2,505
- 11,977
The problem is that the balance of your updates is totally off. I think I speak for most of us here when I say that we want you and your game to be great. Many of us are, or have been, Patrons, so we're not here just to shit on you and your work. But this was supposed to be the short update, the one that you could pump out relatively quickly. But here we are, at almost 90 days since January 5th, and no release in sight. Meanwhile, you're making an update that has as many renders as what we would normally see in the larger updates before you split game-days into thirds. This is completely out of whack. It feels like you're busting your ass, but simultaneously making little progress. Everything seems to balloon on you and become larger and more complex than it needs to be. At some point, honest to god, good enough truly is good enough. If this update is so large, and so time consuming, and it was supposed to be the short one, how long will it take you to produce a larger update? You need better balance because right now this development process seems terribly out of balance.
Since the bikini show, all versions were interesting (except one which was so bland that I don't even remember its scenes).
stuck that there is no scene where Sophia is already bent over the end and others besides her husband .. ha ha
Total renders: 650 (including aiden + sophia/dylan)
Renders until now: 462
Renders to do: 188
Renders by day aprox. best scenario case: 6
days to finish rendering and reating scenes: 31 days
PT + Photoshop: 10 days max.
The game will be released by: 15/05/2021 (dd/mm/yy)
At the end even with better hardware and splitting the game, the release time will be the same because of the large scenes + complexity.
We just need to wait and relax till may
Renders until now: 462
Renders to do: 188
Renders by day aprox. best scenario case: 6
days to finish rendering and reating scenes: 31 days
PT + Photoshop: 10 days max.
The game will be released by: 15/05/2021 (dd/mm/yy)
At the end even with better hardware and splitting the game, the release time will be the same because of the large scenes + complexity.
We just need to wait and relax till may
- Oct 22, 2017
- 175
- 2,219
Well, actually this started and was planned as a rather shorter one but ended in a larger one. But already told this before that I just can't estimate the amount of renders before not start working on the event. And there will be a progress in every single event! And in some even a really distinctive one! And the same effort I will also put later into sex scenes for which I'm planning to hire some pro animator because learning and doing this section would be really over the top.
Well, but here I also got a very special image in my head how this scene should look like. Plus, I'm very creative with mixing environments and create completly unique places. I didn't see anyone else doing it this way. And I got a folder with around 40 background characters and I always mixing them for every scene. So, someone doesn't need to create background characters. But for posing them he would need the whole environment setting which he also would need to create himself. But it will highly likely not correspond with how I pictured that scene.
And actually I'd love to find some way for help because this would also give me some time for myself! Since a while I'd like to have a dog but I just can't get one because I just wouldn't have any time for that animal. So, yeah, sooner or later there must be a solution for that.
And like I said, I try to reduce repetitive renders. But sometimes it's just when a character reacts surprised it's one expression and when he says something determinedly another. Then I use the same render with only editing the facial expression a little bit because for me a surprised reaction face just doesn't fit if the character says something determinedly or smirks etc.
And yeah, sometimes I also like to show a scene from two different angles.
Update 0.130
(Noon)
1) Nursing home (1st side job) OR home schooling (2nd side job)
2) Aiden's 3rd task (parallelly another surprise event)
3) Emma/Dylan OR Sophia/Dylan
+ unexpected Bonus Bridal event
I guess it is to introduce bachelor/ette party down the line.
(Noon)
1) Nursing home (1st side job) OR home schooling (2nd side job)
2) Aiden's 3rd task (parallelly another surprise event)
3) Emma/Dylan OR Sophia/Dylan
+ unexpected Bonus Bridal event
I guess it is to introduce bachelor/ette party down the line.
- Aug 23, 2020
- 2,505
- 11,977
But this is the biggest problem and is the root cause of the imbalance that I'm talking about. You need to have a plan, and you need to stick with it. We aren't talking about an update that was planned to have 400 renders, and ended up with 450; we're talking about an update that was planned for roughly (I think) 400 renders but will grow to almost 650. That's roughly 60% larger than you were originally planning. That's a big deal.
I've never made a game, so I try not to be too critical, but after five years of producing AWAM, I think you need to get a better sense of how large your updates will be. Again, it's one thing to go slightly over, but you've produced hundreds of extra images for this update. That's crazy. At some point, you just gotta say enough is enough, and wrap up the scene. These renders take you a long time, and if you aren't willing to cut the quality (personally, I felt that the 720p visuals were excellent and we didn't need 1080) then you should consider doing fewer renders.
This is a basic project management skill. It's hard, but it's a very important one. All of us have limited resources (time, money, technology, etc) and we have to balance them. Do you have a good idea of how many renders you can produce in a day/week/month? You need to start somewhere so that you balance your time and efforts because "small updates" should never turn into a "larger one". Something has to get cut, or something has to be limited, there needs to be compromise.
Also agree with this, 720p looked great, just upscale them all in the end with that tool someone posted there. It's more than enough and you gain like 20% of time from those 4 3090 RTX compared to rendering 1080p.
- May 24, 2020
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I get it, everyone's a critic. And, boy-oh-boy, we have a pool of professional advisors, story writers and God knows who else here, under the dome of F95, dedicated to AWAM. What a coincidence.
All of a sudden everybody understands, better than the dev himself, what this game lacks/requires, which route is superior, as if having under his/her belt the same experience working with DAZ and all the necessary software. Covering it all up with the unbeatable argument "I used to be your patron". Noice.
How many of his supporters do visit this thread and express their thoughts, hopes, wishes out of 1500+ from the Patreon? The number is equal to the statistical error and so miniscule that, I know it's unpleasant to hear out, L&P could've totally ignored it, but he spends his time, clarifying his position. We see essentially the same 30-50 people on a more or less regular basis here, pouring the water from one glass to another over and over again. It's getting tedious, browsing repetitive topics of "what if ..." scenarios.
OMFG, instead of 400+ renders he's creating 600+, bloating it to the gargantuan proportions
It's practically impossible to believe, but probably his vision of what the final product should be doesn't coincide with, let's call it, general conception.
The best part, nonetheless, is that some folks still trying to fit L&P into their own tight shoes. Or, "you should do this, change that, cut this bollocks and hire him, that guy and the next behind the tree". Yeah, exactly, immediately after that AWAM will bloom, shine and prosper. He, as an artist, making his job done and doing it alone due to the reasons, having been discussed here countless times, is beyond doubt a Top-tier creator. Giving him advices on his time management and work ethic is a fabulous idea, outgoing from those, who are only good at one thing: free advices. Because that's how it works. One can't neither affect in any way on his state of mind nor influence direclty/indireclty on the development time. Now we have the single option - decide, what is better for the developer and, hence, for us as our crave for an update is killing ourselves from the inside.
Never confuse your personal preferences and aspirations, concealing the simple and evident fact - you want updates come out like a swiss express, right on time and without any delays, no matter what. That's feasible only if he stops re-working preexisting surroundings, thus the game becomes bland and looses it's charm.
Getting angry due to your viewpoint on how and where this product supposed to be vs where it is at the moment leads to nothing. The most important thing is this, whether we like it or not. Everything else are the words, gone with the wind.
All of a sudden everybody understands, better than the dev himself, what this game lacks/requires, which route is superior, as if having under his/her belt the same experience working with DAZ and all the necessary software. Covering it all up with the unbeatable argument "I used to be your patron". Noice.
How many of his supporters do visit this thread and express their thoughts, hopes, wishes out of 1500+ from the Patreon? The number is equal to the statistical error and so miniscule that, I know it's unpleasant to hear out, L&P could've totally ignored it, but he spends his time, clarifying his position. We see essentially the same 30-50 people on a more or less regular basis here, pouring the water from one glass to another over and over again. It's getting tedious, browsing repetitive topics of "what if ..." scenarios.
OMFG, instead of 400+ renders he's creating 600+, bloating it to the gargantuan proportions
It's practically impossible to believe, but probably his vision of what the final product should be doesn't coincide with, let's call it, general conception.The best part, nonetheless, is that some folks still trying to fit L&P into their own tight shoes. Or, "you should do this, change that, cut this bollocks and hire him, that guy and the next behind the tree". Yeah, exactly, immediately after that AWAM will bloom, shine and prosper. He, as an artist, making his job done and doing it alone due to the reasons, having been discussed here countless times, is beyond doubt a Top-tier creator. Giving him advices on his time management and work ethic is a fabulous idea, outgoing from those, who are only good at one thing: free advices. Because that's how it works. One can't neither affect in any way on his state of mind nor influence direclty/indireclty on the development time. Now we have the single option - decide, what is better for the developer and, hence, for us as our crave for an update is killing ourselves from the inside.
Never confuse your personal preferences and aspirations, concealing the simple and evident fact - you want updates come out like a swiss express, right on time and without any delays, no matter what. That's feasible only if he stops re-working preexisting surroundings, thus the game becomes bland and looses it's charm.
Getting angry due to your viewpoint on how and where this product supposed to be vs where it is at the moment leads to nothing. The most important thing is this, whether we like it or not. Everything else are the words, gone with the wind.
- May 29, 2017
- 957
- 1,749
Like I always said.
Never lower your standards. Make the game exacly how you want it.
Dont lusten to the mob, mob knows shit.
Just make sure you value your own time, and stay focused on whar really is important.
Good luck.
What an idiotic post.I get it, everyone's a critic. And, boy-oh-boy, we have a pool of professional advisors, story writers and God knows who else here, under the dome of F95, dedicated to AWAM. What a coincidence.
All of a sudden everybody understands, better than the dev himself, what this game lacks/requires, which route is superior, as if having under his/her belt the same experience working with DAZ and all the necessary software. Covering it all up with the unbeatable argument "I used to be your patron". Noice.
How many of his supporters do visit this thread and express their thoughts, hopes, wishes out of 1500+ from the Patreon? The number is equal to the statistical error and so miniscule that, I know it's unpleasant to hear out, L&P could've totally ignored it, but he spends his time, clarifying his position. We see essentially the same 30-50 people on a more or less regular basis here, pouring the water from one glass to another over and over again. It's getting tedious, browsing repetitive topics of "what if ..." scenarios.
OMFG, instead of 400+ renders he's creating 600+, bloating it to the gargantuan proportions
The best part, nonetheless, is that some folks still trying to fit L&P into their own tight shoes. Or, "you should do this, change that, cut this bollocks and hire him, that guy and the next behind the tree". Yeah, exactly, immediately after that AWAM will bloom, shine and prosper. He, as an artist, making his job done and doing it alone due to the reasons, having been discussed here countless times, is beyond doubt a Top-tier creator. Giving him advices on his time management and work ethic is a fabulous idea, outgoing from those, who are only good at one thing: free advices. Because that's how it works. One can't neither affect in any way on his state of mind nor influence direclty/indireclty on the development time. Now we have the single option - decide, what is better for the developer and, hence, for us as our crave for an update is killing ourselves from the inside.
View attachment 1105554
Never confuse your personal preferences and aspirations, concealing the simple and evident fact - you want updates come out like a swiss express, right on time and without any delays, no matter what. That's feasible only if he stops re-working preexisting surroundings, thus the game becomes bland and looses it's charm.
Getting angry due to your viewpoint on how and where this product supposed to be vs where it is at the moment leads to nothing. The most important thing is this, whether we like it or not. Everything else are the words, gone with the wind.
View attachment 1105571
How dare people try to find solutions for issues that even the main dev admits that they exist and take too much of his (personal) time?
And then to top it off, posts a 1551 patreon count like is something that helps his argument. It doesn't.
Here's a top 11 of adult game patreons.
AWAM VN is just a notch below DPC's BADIK (in terms of overall quality) and only has 10% of his patreons.
Assuming that what L&P is saying is true in terms of working 11h monday to sunday, if you think that 7k a month and 1500 patreons is something to be proud of while other people are making 7x -10x more with worse games quality wise, then you're an idiot.
DPC is pulling at least 7x the money L&P is pulling for a game that has a bit worse renders (it's still very good quality), better story (it has developed more so far so only in the end we will be able to judge) and better replayability/in game perks/random stuff to do ingame.
All suggestions are made with the intent of getting updates faster / give more time to L&P / increasing quality of the game therefore also increasing his profits which will be reflected by his patreon numbers.
Successfull ventures, wether its a normal business, a big business or a small porn biz online arent built on yes men and ball lickers.
They're built on constructive criticism and constant improvement.
If L&P manages to streamline his process and get good help, also leaving time for him to have a personal life like getting a dog (like he mentioned), why not propose stuff that can help?
Because abram1 is so touchy for other people's feelings that he takes every criticism as hate?
- Apr 21, 2020
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This is some kind of crazy!
I don’t understand how it fits in your head?
Criticism and instructions on what and how to do L&P are completely different concepts, far from each other in content and meaning! As well as criticism and direct accusations that some make!
All the same, you are a strange person.
- Mar 5, 2020
- 479
- 2,290
Well of all the extensive statement of L&P that could very easily save a prisoner who is on death row I will keep this simple and short sentence
We all want to see more updates more often because in our heads we always think that the faster the game progresses the faster we will get to the hot scenes but the truth is that we will never going have the one we are waiting for, if you are here waiting for Dylan to fuck Sophia while Marie and Emma eat each other pussy next to them that's not gonna happen, if you are here waiting for Sophia to fuck Ellie with a dildo or for Ellie to eat Sophia's pussy that's not gonna happen, if you are here waiting for Patricia and Sophia to have the best lesbian sex of their lives while they inserts dildos in their asses that's not gonna happen, if you are here waiting for Aiden and his three or four friends to fuck Sophia in an orgy that's not gonna happen and if you are here waiting for Sam to fuck Sophia in the pool while Dylan fucks Amber in the living room that's not gonna happen because as L&P said this is not a porn video it is a Visual Novel
At the end of the rainbow there is not a pot full of gold in the same way that at the end of AWAM there will not be a sex scene that complies our expectations
We all want to see more updates more often because in our heads we always think that the faster the game progresses the faster we will get to the hot scenes but the truth is that we will never going have the one we are waiting for, if you are here waiting for Dylan to fuck Sophia while Marie and Emma eat each other pussy next to them that's not gonna happen, if you are here waiting for Sophia to fuck Ellie with a dildo or for Ellie to eat Sophia's pussy that's not gonna happen, if you are here waiting for Patricia and Sophia to have the best lesbian sex of their lives while they inserts dildos in their asses that's not gonna happen, if you are here waiting for Aiden and his three or four friends to fuck Sophia in an orgy that's not gonna happen and if you are here waiting for Sam to fuck Sophia in the pool while Dylan fucks Amber in the living room that's not gonna happen because as L&P said this is not a porn video it is a Visual Novel
At the end of the rainbow there is not a pot full of gold in the same way that at the end of AWAM there will not be a sex scene that complies our expectations