VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.201] [Lust & Passion]

[sphynks80]

Hey, keep calm. Yes it is politically correct. It fits in with the times. But it also corresponds to my value system. Everyone has their fetishes here. And I don't like this one at all. When people, men, women and children are forced to do something. To experience that is uncomfortable for me. Even if it only happens in one story. Just as you don't have to apologize for your fetishes here, so can I share my opinion on it.

Look, if you are an American I give up arguing with you on this subject. This politically correct thing is so specifically American stuff that trying to question it with you Americans is wasted effort. Keep it if you like.

 

[nexer]

Do you know what it is, folks? I don't read the developer's mind but something tells me that Sophia will eventually fall in love with Aiden. Nothing serious, but they will have a completely consenting affair. It can be seen from the latest update where Sophia is not at all displeased by the attentions of the anonymous Ares squeezing her boobs and pubic area. Yes, when she discovers it's him she pretends to be indignant but more out of duty and conditional effect than anything else. I think the story with Aiden will precede the one with Dylan a little bit, which I cheer for. At first Sophia will be torn between the two but when she sees that deep down the bond with Aiden is not a serious thing and she understands Dylan's much deeper intentions, she will join him. I accept bets.

Love I don't know, but strong physical attraction will be.
And we have proof, L&P "equipped" Aiden with a big dick for a reason

 

[Turret]

Well, on the bolder statement, you know a lot can happen in 5 years. If awam gets abandoned in that timeframe it will not serve as a proof to your theory. A good theory prediction should be narrow enough to not allow too many other explanations to that prediction. But you're right about the unneeded sting, and I'm sorry for that.

You've got some false statements/opinions written as facts in your post which are:

1."L&P is no innocent in this. He went to patreon knowingly his project would not be totally his any longer". That's your opinion. I'm pretty sure he believes the game is his and his only, and he would be absolutely right about it. If you become a Patron of his, you don't get a share as a holder of the game, you don't get a share of the income, you don't get anything except for what is promised by the creator for whatever level of patronage you're in (which he has the right to change at any given time). By definition, your patronage is intended to support the developer to continue his production of whatever it is he produces. Now, we can have different opinions whether this system is good or bad, but we can't argue about facts.

2. "And you should deliver at least halfway to industry norms. L&P is far away from that". Why half? why not 3/4? And what are exactly the industry norms? And how can you be so sure L&P is so far away from that? If you normalize some parameters like his quality of renders and his heavily researched writing in some of the updates, I'm pretty sure he's not so far away from "industry norms", whatever they are. You know what, maybe we can suggest a test, and someone here with enough free time can run it. Take all Daz3d based games here on f95 and calculate the average of their renders to days in production ratio (only fully rendered scenes, not some characters renders over a premade background, and for the animations - add their renders to the count). If we call it "industry norms", I'm pretty sure L&P isn't far away from it, and surely not halfway behind.

3. "many supporters have given free and often good tipps how L&P can get the problems under control". Tips are free, that's for sure, but good? You know we are all different people, we have different personalities, different capabilities, and different tastes. From my experience, I know there are people that just can't, for the life of them, change their workflow, and their teemwork capabilities are just zero. That apply mostly on gifted and perfectionist people. Is it the case with L&P? I don't know, but that's my theory. Just look at how angry he gets whenever someone criticize his art, story or working methods. Look how fast he transfomed from an amateur hobby creator to one of the best (imo) 3d artists here. Look at the dialogues of the art class, biology class, guitar lesson etc. They are all thoroughly researched. He sure is gifted and that makes him more prone to such behavior. Do I like his stubborn behavior - not really, did I like his last aggressive post - not at all, do I like these long periods between updates - I hate it, but I know (as an opinion, not a fact) it's a byproduct of his personality, but the VN is also a byproduct of his personality, so I'm okay with it. You won't change his personality, so if you like the game, you'll have to be patient with his flaws...

4. "The updates consistently have become smaller, but the intervalls longer". For the first part - on the contrary. Updates have become larger, and thats one of the issues some have with L&P's methods. For the second part, thats the outcome of a larger update - it takes more time.

5. "when simply math shows that he puts out just 3-5 pics per day with a good render PC.
For comparison, the Dev of a well-known and regarded game here on F95 does it parttime and has a PC which is worse at rendering than L&Ps. Still this part time developer has an output of 20 pics per day on average (of really good quality)"
994 renders / 167 days (30 December - 15 June) = 5.95. That's more like 6. Take 30 days of graphics cards issue and you'll get 7.2. That's roughly his usual output. That's slow, I won't lie, but with the quality, that's something I can live with. The only comparable game with this quality (imo) is Stopper's JOHN, and he is even slower than L&P in terms of renders/production days. Sure, there are games with great renders that deliver a better ratio, L@P isn't the fastest, but nor he is the slowest, and as I said before, when you normalize quality of renders and research for dialogues, he's not that far behind. About the game you were referring that has "a really good quality" - what game is it? I find it hard to believe that a dev can produce 20 really good quality renders in a part time job with a not so good rendering machine.

6. "so this leaves only one explanation. L&P is purposely slowing down and stretching out the development of AWAM to gain easy money!" I can easily think of some more explanations, so that's definitely not the only explanation. As I mentioned before, his last update's ratio of renders/days is roughly equal to his usual ratio (while his quality increases with each update), so it isn't even necessary to speculate, because he isn't slowing down. Last update took more time because of Graphics cards problems (which he proved with video and pictures) and because it was a big update. Your theory about slowing down for easy money is just absurd. I'm sure you can see the effort he puts in his updates, and if you can now agree that his ratio isn't getting worse (all while his quality even gets better) than you can't say anymore that he's slowing down on his work. You can, however say he's slowing down on updates - by making them biger and biger, but that doesn't support your theory of easy money, because if he isn't slowing down on his work - that money isn't easy anymore.

7. "L&P unfortunately has gone on to follow the way of sinkholes of humanity like gumdrop, developers overcome by their own greed for easily earned money!"
Your comparison of L&P to Gumdrop is absolutely absurd, and there really isn't a need for further explanation...

On your last paragraph you went on to explain what you're getting out of your last posts, but you didn't really explain it, so my question still stands without an answer.

Hi again! some answers to your post.

Point 1) Einspruch! (Objection) You are only looking at the situation of the sheep, eh, patrons, who have an appaling lack of rights in case of contract violation. I have patroned myself via various methods and patreon is one of the worst. But back to the point, L&P knows that his game does not belong to him fully any longer! Proof is this farcical "Decisions of Life", which is "porn" for Teenies, he has on Patreon. That he circumvents Patreon rules show quite openly that he went into this with his eyes open.
And please, If you are listening to your heart of hearts you know quite well, that no matter how Patreon beautifies itself, most people patroning there are closing a contract. This contract might be appalingly lopsided on rights the patron has, which is why Patreon is such a haven for milkers, eh, developers with unethical intentions, but at least a spiritual contract is closed. The number of patrons in the classical sense might be 1-2 of 10, not more.

2) Einspruch! You are deliberately focusing on only one part of the equation. Even L&P´s greatest critics have praise for his graphics, that is not the point on norms. It is the point that he is ultra-slow even taking the quality of art inro the consideration! That is simple math. 30 game days, we are on day 12 after 4 years. That would be even on the old speed 10 years to develop AWAM, which is far beyond any industry norm even for Indie games!
But since he went to smaller updates, 1/3 of a gameday per update now and as we can see it will be 2 updates per year max. (despite any promises that the smaller size would speed up development,"yeah right"), AWAM would end comfortably somewhere in the 2030s! That is really pushing the envelope and I find it extremly unlikely that AWAM will ever be finished under the current conditions.

3) I rhink we can agree on parts of his personality. Other parts of his personality have still air above for growth. Not only his rapid and often very uncalled for aggression does not paint a pretty picture, there are further things shining through. You can be an artist and perfectionist without being a self-censored self-censored at the same time!

4) Objection again! L&P openly stated that he went for 1/3 of a gameday updates to speed up development! Something which did not happen and something I predicted from the start of it. This 1/3 gameday update took longer than some of the former halfday to fullday updates! While it might be packed, the 0.130 update stil does represent only a 1/3 gameday update and it took longer than before! That promised speed up of updates is a complete failure and I am convinced that it is deliberately done.

5+6) Even if we give him 6 pics per day if we look at it magnanimously (and the GPU problems you overappreciated very much), this is still slow. You even said so too, but what makes it MUCH WORSE is L&P´s statement of working around 11 hours per day on the game! This is just disturbing and bombs your argument out of the water! Even with preparations, research and perfectionism counted in, his output in comparison to his own alleged workhours is catastrophical! Such low output in ratio of the workhours gone in is either incompetence or deliberately done. L&P has shown that he is not incompetent, so by elimination of arguments what remains is that he is deliberately dragging his feet!

As for other developers who bring out great quality renders at higher speeds normally, here are a couple: "After Choices", "1thousand", "Mutt & Jeff", "Oceanlab", Arath Sin", "Nefastus", "InsaneErotica", "King of Lust" and "Captain Kitty".

 

[Deleted member 2183629]

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[Sabertooth__]

I still find the whole story around Aiden more than ridiculous. L&P exaggerates this teenager into a danger simpy by ignoring all the obvious ways of solving the problem. This makes the entire plot very implausible.

BTW, for an auther who praises himself for his realism, AWAM does have a comparatively large number of these completely idiotic events. In particular, the events around Bannet and the events around the attack in the subway station appear extrem strange and unrealistic. L&P has now reached his lowest point with the event between Sophia and the children. That was not only unrealistic but also disgusting.

I would like to hear your obvious solutions to Aiden problem.
The Bennett event has it's solutions and the Subway attack in my opinion can happen to anyone. What is so strange.

As for the children, it's upto every individual. I don't care for boys in this dynamic as long as they are above 12.I don't feel bad about it at all. The present generation of boys can be just as dangerous as adults. If the whole thing was with a male teacher and a female student even if she was 18 would still make me uncomfortable, however again if the one in control is actually the 18 yr old girl I would have no problems. Also for me the whole situation gets disturbing or wrong if the adult starts exploiting the child not the child exploiting the adult. As long as the children are in control I see no problem with that story. ( Maybe I have gotten numb to anything, because save for a few kinks or fetishes, I can watch anything and everything as long as it is in animated or drawn form )

 

[Poser_Voyeur]

Hey, keep calm. Yes it is politically correct. It fits in with the times. But it also corresponds to my value system. Everyone has their fetishes here. And I don't like this one at all. When people, men, women and children are forced to do something. To experience that is uncomfortable for me. Even if it only happens in one story. Just as you don't have to apologize for your fetishes here, so can I share my opinion on it.

For me personally I am fine with say, as an example, Elves forced to fuck Orcs and /or Goblins because that is clearly unequivocally a Fantasy. The less fantastical and more realistic the setting, the more uncomfortable I find it. With a VN like AWAM that at the very least TRIES to be realistic, it definitely makes me uncomfortable. Hence my criticisms of Aiden's brutishness as Ares.

I was hoping for Aiden's corruption of Sophia for each individual step being harmless enough that Sophia accepts it without noticing the cumulative affect of how far we have come. If it relies on Sophia being physically forced, then I am not so keen.

 

[hzjujk]

Look, if you are an American I give up arguing with you on this subject. This politically correct thing is so specifically American stuff that trying to question it with you Americans is wasted effort. Keep it if you like.

Ha, no, I'm German. And I don't argue about it. It's a manifesto. It is my position on the matter. Even if, as I have to admit, we watered it down a bit with this game. That's called corruption.

 

[Squark ⚧❤️]

Regarding Aidan's underworld connections, I don't think any criminal organisation would actually deal with anyone who's just going to become an enormous man-child.

 

[PietruccioTheHilander]

As a legend subscriber how do I get my username on the game credits as promised

you must be patreon legend from day one

 

[Dan5k74]

Spoiler: Japanese interstate

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[Squark ⚧❤️]

you must be patreon legend from day one

Maximum suckage.

 

[ancienregimele]

The 3rd task was the last "forceful" to keep Dylan. The 4th task will be optional. But only if you did the right decisions before. And Sophia will also need to think about the decision carefully.
So is this decision time for choosing either Bennett or Aiden?

I choose both. I hope it's not a case of one or the other.

 

[xxxorro]

Your assertion is correct.
Letting Dylan face Aiden can make things better or worse. Especially since Aiden will certainly not be fairplay

I still wonder what are the possibilities (even if I have some ideas), especially since this blackmail had for origin Dylan >>>> What could be the solution imagined by Dylan and Aiden to overcome Sophia's reluctance. If L&P was able to easily change this aspect (blackmail's origin), it is because the overall story was not really changed...

PS As the 'hobos' left, San Alejo Beavers returned to the park.

Well the scheme with The Twist was to use the extortion to force Sophia to dress more sexy, but, as it was revealed, the tasks were Aiden's initiative, Dylan was completely unaware of it.
If the Twist had been maintained, the only thing that would change is Dylan's attitude towards Aiden. Unaware of the tasks and the deal, he will be pretending to be pissed off at Aiden only to keep the up with the scheme. Here instead he really despises him and he is ready to go to war with him.

The 3rd task was the last "forceful" to keep Dylan. The 4th task will be optional. But only if you did the right decisions before. And Sophia will also need to think about the decision carefully.
So is this decision time for choosing either Bennett or Aiden?

We know the next PD has the 4th task and the "comfortable solution".
If the comfortable solution is Morello the 4th task can still happen because it's scheduled before the Morello's. In this case the right decisions would be having all Larry's points probably, so Don can help Sophia. And the 4th task will be the last drop in terms of humiliation.

If it is not Morello is hard to say what it could be. And I don't see a possibility that ties the comfortable solution to what point you reach on 3rd task. We speculated that the 3rd task may give Sophia some leverage to call off the deal but it is really not the case.

It leaves that
3) A little bonus storyline with Sophia (with interesting options for later)
of the next update that can give something for the comfortable solution.
I dunno know if we have intel on that event. It could also be the Cathy event, even if it should happen in the evening, before or after the concert, but it was scheduled for the afternoon. Maybe he changed it or simply it is something else

 

[Deleted member 2183629]

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[ancienregimele]

Well the scheme with The Twist was to use the extortion to force Sophia to dress more sexy, but as it was revealed we also know that the tasks were Aiden's initiative, Dylan was completely unaware of it.
If the Twist had been maintained, the only thing that would change is Dylan's attitude towards Aiden. Unaware of the tasks and the deal, he will be be pissed off to Aiden only to keep the up with the scheme. Here instead he really despises him and he is ready to go to war with him.


We know the next PD has the 4th task and the "comfortable solution".
If the comfortable solution is Morello the 4th task can still happen because it's scheduled before the Morello's. In this case the right decisions would be having all Larry's points probably, so Don can help Sophia. And the 4th task will be the last drop in terms of humiliation.

If it is not Morello is hard to say what it could be. And I don't see a possibility that ties the conformable solution to what point you reach on 3rd task. We speculated that the 3rd task may give Sophia some leverage to call off the deal but it is really not the case.

Months ago, after the casino event, I & others predicted that the Mafia connection would spell the end for the blackmail by both Bennett & Aiden. It's hard to think otherwise but just having a Mafia Don amongst your aquaintances doesn't mean he's going to solve your everyday problems. So, right now, I'm just waiting to see what the options are. I'm sure the Morellos will feature soon. Arguably, the Morellos pose a far greater long-term, deeper & more existential threat than either of the school scumbags.

If the blackmail can continue in a relatively "realistic" way by AWAM standards, that will be what I opt for. If it is the case I'm also looking forward to the departure from the routes of all the Aiden-haters, Bennett-despisers, coercion-abominators etc., etc. Then the incest-lovers can have their fantasies untramelled by those who would stoop to blackmail & I can stop coming to the defence of a couple of evil sods. I've already done what I can to steer off the Sophia/Dylan route & am reconciled to the prescence of incest, as long as it's somewhere in the game & not in my face. I'm hopeful that soon we'll all get along in the spirit of "to each his/her own."

What I don't want is for Sophia to start revelling in the tasks or taking the initiative, which is something I think I can see coming. It's either blackmail or a sex game called "blackmail" but it can't be both. AWAM, by the standards of adult corruption games has the lightest touch regarding coercion than any I've ever played. Overall the game hasn't suffered because of this but rather has been more believable & thus enjoyable....to this point. It doesn't need any more watering down because it's already avoidable & as I've said before, the number of ways to stop it will end up as almost embarrassing.

 

[lockerxx]

You forgot to include inflation over the period

and the cut of patreon...

 

[Scarlet56]

I don't understand why protest with realism.
If we want realism, we choose the Pure GW route and we refuse the slightest extramarital temptation and that's it.
But in that case, why come and play an erotic or porn VN?
After a while, if we want to have access to hot events (and fetishes), we have no choice but to break realism.
Here in AWAM, for realism, we need rather in the sense, a universe of realism, with realistic characters.
Everything else is up to the player.
That's my opinion anyway.

 

[Old Dog]

Well the scheme with The Twist was to use the extortion to force Sophia to dress more sexy, but, as it was revealed, the tasks were Aiden's initiative, Dylan was completely unaware of it.
If the Twist had been maintained, the only thing that would change is Dylan's attitude towards Aiden. Unaware of the tasks and the deal, he will be pretending to be pissed off at Aiden only to keep the up with the scheme. Here instead he really despises him and he is ready to go to war with him.


We know the next PD has the 4th task and the "comfortable solution".
If the comfortable solution is Morello the 4th task can still happen because it's scheduled before the Morello's. In this case the right decisions would be having all Larry's points probably, so Don can help Sophia. And the 4th task will be the last drop in terms of humiliation.

If it is not Morello is hard to say what it could be. And I don't see a possibility that ties the comfortable solution to what point you reach on 3rd task. We speculated that the 3rd task may give Sophia some leverage to call off the deal but it is really not the case.

It leaves that
3) A little bonus storyline with Sophia (with interesting options for later)
of the next update that can give something for the comfortable solution.
I dunno know if we have intel on that event. It could also be the Cathy event, even if it should happen in the evening, before or after the concert, but it was scheduled for the afternoon. Maybe he changed it or simply it is something else

Sophia/Liam will find out how well/bad the prison visit went at the end of this day either through a phone call or a meeting with Morello.
So Sophia could make the phone to Morello (depending on players choice and certain decisions made before hand) the very next day.
The "Cumare" comes into play
Also do you think that they record conversations during prison visits?

 

[bayrischman]

View attachment 1254223
Assuming this is a bug, what should be the correct value? The maximum amount of Dylan points that can be earned so far (>= 42)? Has the dev said anything about this?

apparently he has already confirmed that 54 is a mistake. it,s only 42 points. i don,t understand why he doesn,t fix the error.

 

[ancienregimele]

I don't understand why protest with realism.
If we want realism, we choose the Pure GW route and we refuse the slightest extramarital temptation and that's it.
But in that case, why come and play an erotic or porn VN?
After a while, if we want to have access to hot events (and fetishes), we have no choice but to break realism.
Here in AWAM, for realism, we need rather in the sense, a universe of realism, with realistic characters.
Everything else is up to the player.
That's my opinion anyway.

When I first started playing AWAM 3 or more years ago, I played the GW route precisely because this seemed the most realistic option. It was too dull & uneventful at that time & so I went instead for the accumulation of filthy points. Fast forwarding to now & skipping the various debates & speculations, we've arrived at a point where the game/VN contains a range of options, kinks & fetishes on the different routes.

I feel that the only way to move the stories forward without everything being projected to last another 2 decades & assuming that side jobs & the number of characters are not going to be pruned, is to start some real action. This in turn could make realism suffer & could be a very hard balancing act. [The 2nd side job recently went too fast for me but it's all a matter of personal taste].

If I'm right in thinking that we are close to being able to further separate the different routes, why not stop revving up & put the foot to the accelerator, for all of them. True, it's not ideal but in the absence of any changes in working practices of the Dev, what other solutions are there?