nexer

Forum Fanatic
Feb 5, 2019
4,597
18,370
Respectfully, corruption or lack there of has little to do with the advanced posture Germany enjoys. Germany's economic and technological dominance is rooted in two things: mineral advantage and the will of Germany's ancestors to steward that advantage.
Germany enjoys having the purest iron ore in the world, meaning the sulfur and phosphorous percentages are lower than any other ore known. These impurities make iron and steel more brittle and frangible. Having the best steel in the world gave Germany considerable market share and allowed for earlier innovation. It was Germany that invented the first assembly line where raw material entered that line and a finished product emerged from it. Unfortunately, the 100 years war and the bubonic plague ravaged those skilled in manufacture and Henry Ford gets the credit 500 years later.
Germany/Austria invented the stückofen in the 9th century that replaced the beehive oven used since roman times for bloom. It was a German, Georgius Agricola, who researched and wrote De Re Metallica (published in 1556) which standardized manufacturing from mining to finished product. Having the finest materials, methods and standardization produced the highly disciplined machinists, die-makers and research techniques that molded innovation through the 20th century.
This legacy persists today making Germany the technological and economic powerhouse that it currently is.
Oh man, that is history.
Their neighbours went out to conquer, and Germany used what they had. In the long run this gave them this technical advantage but I don't think it was a choice.
The envy that the Netherlands, France, Spain caused them with their conquests must have been enormous :ROFLMAO:
As for the purity of German iron ore deposits, I haven't heard, processing techniques are important. I have studied the iron-carbon diagram.
 
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momojean

Member
Sep 15, 2017
296
767
I would rather things be done better than done quicker.

Do you want a steak tomorrow or hamburger today?
Of course I'll choose the steak tomorrow.
Except that here we are talking about L&P and its 40 years of development at the current pace. And in this case your sentence loses all its meaning and becomes : "Do you want a steak next year or hamburger today". And in this case it's obvious that anyone will choose a Hamburger today.
 

GingerSweetGirl

Engaged Member
Aug 23, 2020
2,528
12,129
Ok, let's put everything you just said there aside. L&P himself stated he can translate 2-2.5 pages a day. He was talking about translation and nothing else. Don't you find this daily average ridiculous?

And then you don't think he could have put forward the explanation you just related himself if it was the case?

Do you really need to rack your brains and come up with statements that even L&P didn't have the ingenuity to invent to defend himself?
I wouldn't take L&P's lack of a comment as proof of anything. The guy hates explaining himself to anyone, even if it would help him. Some of that is the language barrier, and the rest is stubbornness. Personally, I've always assumed that when he talked about "translation" he means that to include localization, so I'm not shocked when it takes time. Does it make sense why it takes so much time? No. But throwing everything into an online translator would cause different problems. One of the things I like best about this game is the lack of Engrish. And while it hasn't always been perfect, I would be very frustrated to see the script devolve into a mess of syntax and grammatical errors.
 

momojean

Member
Sep 15, 2017
296
767
I would rather things be done better than done quicker.

Do you want a steak tomorrow or hamburger today?
And don't you think there's a subtle middle ground between better and quicker that L&P needs to embrace quickly if he ever wants to complete this project?
 

yihman1

Knockout Master
May 11, 2017
3,109
10,931
Of course I'll choose the steak tomorrow.
Except that here we are talking about L&P and its 40 years of development at the current pace. And in this case your sentence loses all its meaning and becomes : "Do you want a steak next year or hamburger today". And in this case it's obvious that anyone will choose a Hamburger today.
It's about 1/3 done. He has been working on it for about 4.5 years. At current pace it is 9 years until completion not 40.

And don't you think there's a subtle middle ground between better and quicker that L&P needs to embrace quickly if he ever wants to complete this project?
Game development is not a sprint. It is a marathon.

You see there are 3 competing forces when you are in game production.

1) Quantity: How big is an update?
2) Rate: How fast between updates?
3) Quality: How much thought and extra effort goes into making the update great?

If you increase quantity then either rate or quality will suffer.
If you increase rate then either quality or quantity will suffer.
If you increase quality then either rate or quantity will suffer.

As a developer you must always make choices about this. You are going to need to give something to get something. It's impossible to have rapid update of huge quantity with great quality. At least one other area will suffer when you push in any one direction.
 

momojean

Member
Sep 15, 2017
296
767
I wouldn't take L&P's lack of a comment as proof of anything. The guy hates explaining himself to anyone, even if it would help him. Some of that is the language barrier, and the rest is stubbornness. Personally, I've always assumed that when he talked about "translation" he means that to include localization, so I'm not shocked when it takes time. Does it make sense why it takes so much time? No. But throwing everything into an online translator would cause different problems. One of the things I like best about this game is the lack of Engrish. And while it hasn't always been perfect, I would be very frustrated to see the script devolve into a mess of syntax and grammatical errors.
Personally, for more than 4 years following this game and with all the attitudes that L&P has shown, my doubts go far beyond the simple lack of communication or stubbornness. I think of much less innocent things.
 

momojean

Member
Sep 15, 2017
296
767
It's about 1/3 done. He has been working on it for about 4.5 years. At current pace it is 9 years until completion not 40.



Game development is not a sprint. It is a marathon.

You see there are 3 competing forces when you are in game production.

1) Quantity: How big is an update?
2) Rate: How fast between updates?
3) Quality: How much thought and extra effort goes into making the update great?

If you increase quantity then either rate or quality will suffer.
If you increase rate then either quality or quantity will suffer.
If you increase quality then either rate or quantity will suffer.

As a developer you must always make choices about this. You are going to need to give something to get something. It's impossible to have rapid update of huge quantity with great quality. At least one other area will suffer when you push in any one direction.
It's funny! This game is really stuck between these two extreme alternatives. Last 40 years or produce a shit game? Each of the two is worse than the other.
But fortunately we have plenty of games out there that last just 3 or 4 years and they are very interesting too. He only has to follow their example to get out of the mess where he plunged his game.
 

Deleted member 3325933

Engaged Member
Jan 30, 2021
2,734
6,770
I would rather things be done better than done quicker.

Do you want a steak tomorrow or hamburger today?
Depends on the steak vice the burger. I don't need Lord Salisbury's steak or a round steak if I can get a 1 pound Angus beef burger perfectly cooked. Granted A New York Strip or Filet Mignon is preferable. But in my mind, he is bringing anything he cooks in 'Well Done', if we are lucky. Yuck! Medium rare FTW.
 
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bayrischman

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2021
1,036
1,110
I would rather things be done better than done quicker.

Do you want a steak tomorrow or hamburger today?
It's about 1/3 done. He has been working on it for about 4.5 years. At current pace it is 9 years until completion not 40.



Game development is not a sprint. It is a marathon.

You see there are 3 competing forces when you are in game production.

1) Quantity: How big is an update?
2) Rate: How fast between updates?
3) Quality: How much thought and extra effort goes into making the update great?

If you increase quantity then either rate or quality will suffer.
If you increase rate then either quality or quantity will suffer.
If you increase quality then either rate or quantity will suffer.

As a developer you must always make choices about this. You are going to need to give something to get something. It's impossible to have rapid update of huge quantity with great quality. At least one other area will suffer when you push in any one direction.
the same defense as sabertooth you are both one and the same.
 

Deleted member 3325933

Engaged Member
Jan 30, 2021
2,734
6,770
It's about 1/3 done. He has been working on it for about 4.5 years. At current pace it is 9 years until completion not 40.



Game development is not a sprint. It is a marathon.

You see there are 3 competing forces when you are in game production.

1) Quantity: How big is an update?
2) Rate: How fast between updates?
3) Quality: How much thought and extra effort goes into making the update great?

If you increase quantity then either rate or quality will suffer.
If you increase rate then either quality or quantity will suffer.
If you increase quality then either rate or quantity will suffer.

As a developer you must always make choices about this. You are going to need to give something to get something. It's impossible to have rapid update of huge quantity with great quality. At least one other area will suffer when you push in any one direction.
Your mathematics are faulty. At current rate we are looking at 1 PD per 2.5 years +. Times 18 PDs and the result is 45 years. If he can get production to 3- 4 PDs per year then we are going to see the possibility of completion. Yeah, ain't holding my breath. He has never reduced his PD rate.
 
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dolfe67

Forum Fanatic
Apr 25, 2020
5,005
13,906
It's about 1/3 done. He has been working on it for about 4.5 years. At current pace it is 9 years until completion not 40.
Your reasoning is off. You don't take into account that the development has slowed down. According to the last year of dev, with 1 PD per year (being really optimistic) and 17 PD remaining, it would take 17 more years at this rate. Some PD could be shorter but it would be disappointing
 

yihman1

Knockout Master
May 11, 2017
3,109
10,931
Your reasoning is off. You don't take into account that the development has slowed down. According to the last year of dev, with 1 PD per year (being really optimistic) and 17 PD remaining, it would take 17 more years at this rate. Some PD could be shorter but it would be disappointing
Any number of things can speed up or slow down production. Nobody has a crystal ball that will see what will happen.

More frequent releases would increase profits for him.

Reaching the end of the game is never losing money. If anything it is gaining money.

Some supporters only pay for a complete game. Games tend to get a little boost of $ after a completed tag.

With AWAM complete there is no reason not to launch a 2nd game.

"Development Hell" can happen for any number of reasons. It's currently in a slower phase of development, but may pick up in the future or slow down who knows we have no crystal ball.

I hope it gets finished some day.
 

dolfe67

Forum Fanatic
Apr 25, 2020
5,005
13,906
"Development Hell" can happen for any number of reasons. It's currently in a slower phase of development, but may pick up in the future or slow down who knows we have no crystal ball.
Sure but the trend has been to be slowing down and never went faster. Splitting PD in 10 parts seems to slow it down even more.

Though we should see an AWAM update more frequently, but if you don't play every paths you can skip a few
 

palmtrees89

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2021
1,849
11,556
It's about 1/3 done. He has been working on it for about 4.5 years. At current pace it is 9 years until completion not 40.
Statement of the year right there. lol...

Before L&P decided to go for event-based updates, he's already been working at a pace that would easily result in 20 years till completion. That was when he released 1/3rd of a PD within ~4-6 months, which translates to ONE playable day every 12-18 months, and 18 more playable days to develop and release. 9 years, huh? You do the math.

Now that L&P decided to go for event-based releases and what looks like more than 3 months to release update 1 out of 10 for playable day 13 (yes, 10 updates for this ONE day), the current estimates for the game's completion range somewhere between 40 and 50 years. 9 years...Thanks for the laugh.
 

Alley_Cat

Devoted Member
Jul 20, 2019
8,993
17,561
Sure but the trend has been to be slowing down and never went faster. Splitting PD in 10 parts seems to slow it down even more.

Though we should see an AWAM update more frequently, but if you don't play every paths you can skip a few
Considering I don't play Aiden's tasks, I'm only expecting about 6 renders of playable content this update. So for me, yeah, not worth downloading, just to see Sophia enter the classroom, a render or two teaching the literature lesson, then her leaving. Maybe a couple of renders of a phone call for the Morello event.
 
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