VN Ren'Py Completed Acting Lessons [v1.0.2] [DrPinkCake]

[Vordertur]

There is a LOT more to Megan than naive and vanilla.

Did I imply there wasn't?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you're so eager to defend the character that everything looks like an attack. It isn't.

The point I've been making (and, I think, a couple of other folks who've been talking in the same vein as I have) is that the majority of the characters in the game fit certain archetypes. This doesn't mean that this is the be-all and end-all of what they are.

I think people misunderstand what "tropes" are, or how they're used, or maybe just what some folks mean when we bring them up as discussion points. The fact that Megan initially fits the "Girl next door" character archetype doesn't mean that this is all she is or ever will be. It just means that that's her "starting point." It's an easily identifiable starting point from which to base her personality, her looks, etc. Likewise, you could probably sum up a lot of the other characters using just a few key words, perhaps a phrase or two. But this doesn't mean that's all they are or ever will be. That is the whole point of character development. You start with something that is easily recognizable. The audience sees a character type they're familiar with. That guy is the brash action hero. That guy is the smart-ass know-it-all. That is the shy girl. She's the sexpot. So on and so forth. It makes it much easier to get some basic information about the character out into the open. From there, you tweak the formula. That's how character development works. Maybe the brash action hero isn't always cool and confident. Maybe he's secretly afraid of something but nobody knows about it because he's not the type to share. Maybe the smart-ass know-it-all only acts that way because he's covering for massive insecurity. The shy girl could really be quite friendly and open if approached the right way. And the sexpot might only be so promiscuous because she's never had a healthy relationship before. Etc. etc.

In this case, yes, we've seen Megan branching out, trying new things, showing that there's more to her than the original "boring, vanilla, shy girl routine" we saw at the very beginning. Again, character development. But first impressions are still first impressions and while I like the character just fine, I can see why some people don't, and I'm offering my theories as to WHY.

 

[Walter Victor]

Did I imply there wasn't?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you're so eager to defend the character that everything looks like an attack. It isn't.

The point I've been making (and, I think, a couple of other folks who've been talking in the same vein as I have) is that the majority of the characters in the game fit certain archetypes. This doesn't mean that this is the be-all and end-all of what they are.

I think people misunderstand what "tropes" are, or how they're used, or maybe just what some folks mean when we bring them up as discussion points. The fact that Megan initially fits the "Girl next door" character archetype doesn't mean that this is all she is or ever will be. It just means that that's her "starting point." It's an easily identifiable starting point from which to base her personality, her looks, etc. Likewise, you could probably sum up a lot of the other characters using just a few key words, perhaps a phrase or two. But this doesn't mean that's all they are or ever will be. That is the whole point of character development. You start with something that is easily recognizable. The audience sees a character type they're familiar with. That guy is the brash action hero. That guy is the smart-ass know-it-all. That is the shy girl. She's the sexpot. So on and so forth. It makes it much easier to get some basic information about the character out into the open. From there, you tweak the formula. That's how character development works. Maybe the brash action hero isn't always cool and confident. Maybe he's secretly afraid of something but nobody knows about it because he's not the type to share. Maybe the smart-ass know-it-all only acts that way because he's covering for massive insecurity. The shy girl could really be quite friendly and open if approached the right way. And the sexpot might only be so promiscuous because she's never had a healthy relationship before. Etc. etc.

In this case, yes, we've seen Megan branching out, trying new things, showing that there's more to her than the original "boring, vanilla, shy girl routine" we saw at the very beginning. Again, character development. But first impressions are still first impressions and while I like the character just fine, I can see why some people don't, and I'm offering my theories as to WHY.

Sorry, I didn't realize I was talking to you. I'm not here to argue with anyone. But I do intend to express my own opinions. You are welcome to yours. I doubt if I can change your mind, and that's fine with me.

 

[LogID]

I started playing this yesterday and it is such a good game. The relationship with Megan feels so natural and honest that I literally felt bad for dating Leah and making out with Melissa before even though she's great as well. First time I play a game like this and want to be monogamous.

And I just laughed hard about Liam's reaction to the chlamydia comment. He's comedy gold.

 

[N7]

You must be registered to see the links

Episode 7 status:
Script 95%
Renders completed 265
Despite a 40 hour work week, my PC has been rendering 24/7. This feels great as development couldn't be faster even if I had been at home.

I've managed to squeeze in 6-8 hours of active game development per day during the work week, too.

There are still a lot of renders to do and some animations are in the rendering queue but haven't started to render yet.

I was hoping to get my new GPU this week, but it's been delayed another week or two without an official reason from nVidia. Once I get it, I expect render times to drastically improve.

It's hard to estimate the overall progress of Episode 7 and I know a lot of you are eager to know if it's going to be in October or not. Currently, I honestly don't know if it will be an October or November release.

Based on the progress this far, I would say late October or early November.

If you base your pledge on the Episode release date, there is still time for you to modify it prior October 1st. That's also why I chose to release this status update today instead of tomorrow.

Back to preparing renders! Have a nice weekend!

Cheer
Dr PinkCake

 

[Walter Victor]

I started playing this yesterday and it is such a good game. The relationship with Megan feels so natural and honest that I literally felt bad for dating Leah and making out with Melissa before even though she's great as well. First time I play a game like this and want to be monogamous.

And I just laughed hard about Liam's reaction to the chlamydia comment. He's comedy gold.

Welcome to the game. I too, have a Megan-centric route. But, I have found that adding Melissa as relationship material as well was more satisfying. I believe that the developer wanted to have the relationship between the three of them to be the driving force of the game. You might consider adding another route... or not! It's a good game regardless.

 

[Stakos]

Well, I just played chapter 6 and I just gave up on the game. I don't have a problem with making choices in a game and in this one I tried to make them all, even the one that the player prefers Rena over Megan and Melissa but trying to force me in a life or death decision is utterly disturbing. I don't play games to invest in a character and then simply abandon her, this is sadistic and plainly stupid. If the developer doesn't fix this then this game is over for me.

 

[RogueKnightUK]

I think people misunderstand what "tropes" are, or how they're used, or maybe just what some folks mean when we bring them up as discussion points.

I have to agree there. Tropes are simply a tool of media and storytelling that allow you to 'shortcut' creating a character so that the audience can have an idea of expectations and situations, without which no sit-com (for example) would be possible. The TV Tropes website is awesome as a resource for documenting and explaining so many of them, be they character tropes, or situational ones. I believe that the criticism surrounding tropes is not for using them (as it is exceptionally difficult not to) but for failing to add twists and depths to that basic framework.

Of course Megan develops - that's her role. Your role as a protagonist in this (or any) story is to change things, make new things happen, otherwise there is no interaction. Any character that fails to develop from the protagonist's interactions is either just scenery, or a failure of the protagonist (and failing to change someone is in itself a trope - "Man, I guess he'll never change").

My issue is, I guess, more about casting and direction.

On casting, well, is Megan pretty? Sure. But she's not as pretty or even drop-dead sexy as Missy, and a glance at fan-art submissions shows I'm far from alone in that opinion. I find the in-game rendition of Megan to be fairly plain looking, very much 'girl next door'. Can she be provocative and enticing to be more attractive? Of course. But in a game-world, so could the Acting Teacher, and we've probably all played games that prove it. XD

So, I just think we need an in-game cue or clue as to why the character we're playing should see something special. Tell us she has amazing pheromones, or that she reminds us of someone we adore, just... something. Because in the first 3 chapters at least there is not one single clue as to why my character who seems to have an entire town of women potentially (or actively) interested in him, would even notice her much.

Yeah, I know ... some of you would tell me it's the gratitude. But all she did was call an ambulance and later check up on you. I don't know what countries you guys are in, but in most of the ones I know, to NOT call an ambulance would be an actual crime, risking claims of negligence. Meanwhile your character risked angering and interfering with a gunman who'd already smacked you down hard and injured you (in 3 choices of the 4 possible) to try to save her, with NOTHING in it for you. It's her that ought to be grateful really, and I'm not sure +2 RP really shows it. XD

 

[Walter Victor]

I have to agree there. Tropes are simply a tool of media and storytelling that allow you to 'shortcut' creating a character so that the audience can have an idea of expectations and situations, without which no sit-com (for example) would be possible. The TV Tropes website is awesome as a resource for documenting and explaining so many of them, be they character tropes, or situational ones. I believe that the criticism surrounding tropes is not for using them (as it is exceptionally difficult not to) but for failing to add twists and depths to that basic framework.

Of course Megan develops - that's her role. Your role as a protagonist in this (or any) story is to change things, make new things happen, otherwise there is no interaction. Any character that fails to develop from the protagonist's interactions is either just scenery, or a failure of the protagonist (and failing to change someone is in itself a trope - "Man, I guess he'll never change").

My issue is, I guess, more about casting and direction.

On casting, well, is Megan pretty? Sure. But she's not as pretty or even drop-dead sexy as Missy, and a glance at fan-art submissions shows I'm far from alone in that opinion. I find the in-game rendition of Megan to be fairly plain looking, very much 'girl next door'. Can she be provocative and enticing to be more attractive? Of course. But in a game-world, so could the Acting Teacher, and we've probably all played games that prove it. XD

So, I just think we need an in-game cue or clue as to why the character we're playing should see something special. Tell us she has amazing pheromones, or that she reminds us of someone we adore, just... something. Because in the first 3 chapters at least there is not one single clue as to why my character who seems to have an entire town of women potentially (or actively) interested in him, would even notice her much.

Yeah, I know ... some of you would tell me it's the gratitude. But all she did was call an ambulance and later check up on you. I don't know what countries you guys are in, but in most of the ones I know, to NOT call an ambulance would be an actual crime, risking claims of negligence. Meanwhile your character risked angering and interfering with a gunman who'd already smacked you down hard and injured you (in 3 choices of the 4 possible) to try to save her, with NOTHING in it for you. It's her that ought to be grateful really, and I'm not sure +2 RP really shows it. XD

"Well, yes there's something special about her. I can't really wrap my head about it." That is the reason the MC gives when asked by Liam.

As for gratitude, you may think that the MC doesn't owe Megan any gratitude, but HE does! Why? Because that's the way the game is written. Obviously the developer didn't see it your way.

By the way, instead of the answer I cited, the MC can instead tell Liam, "Well, yeah you're right. She's very pretty." So, regardless of what you or I or anyone else thinks, if you select that option, the MC thinks she's very pretty. Why? Again, because that's the way the game is written.

Personally, I agree with your assessment of her looks. Leah>Melissa>Megan. But that is due more to the outstanding facial beauty of Leah and Melissa, than any lack thereof with Megan. That's my opinion, anyways, and I'm stuck with it.

 

[Enyos]

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Vordertur]

Different strokes for different folks.

That's fine.

I think... I think people are getting the wrong idea about what I'm trying to do here. I'm not AT ALL criticizing people's personal opinions on stuff. You like what you like. That's cool. If you think this character is prettier, if you like that character's personality more than any of the others, that's fine. If people are looking at it as just something that's "fun" and don't want to "analyze" anything, ok.

But I have a bit of a background in this stuff. That is to say, I was a stupid English major in college. Analysis of fiction was what I did for years, and to be honest, while I found it kind of boring in class (I mean, good freakin' God, there is only so much digging into the guts of a Victorian novel before you just get bored and want to shoot yourself) I've found as I've got older that I really, really find shoving my hands into the nuts and bolts of the stuff I watch/read/play to be just damn fascinating.

So yeah, the nerd in me is going "This is actually a pretty fun intellectual exercise." That's how I'm approaching this discussion, and yes, I understand that a lot of people just want to go "Yeah... the one with the tits? She hot."

For those of you who don't want to dig any deeper? Cool. You do you, guys. Me, like I said, I like seeing what makes this tick.

And I think the point that Rogue above me is getting at is that there's nothing wrong if you agree with what PinkCake is selling - i.e. that Megan is "the idealized girl." If you think she's the prettiest, if you like that kind of "Shy at first, but with a little coaxing in the right way, she's a tigress in the sack" kind of girl, more power to you. But for those of us who are basically just along for the ride, you have to sell us on why our character thinks this. We can accept that the writer wants this to be the case. That this is the plot he's laid out. Sure. We can accept that there are players that are just naturally going to gravitate to certain characters. Also not a problem.

But if you're one of those players who doesn't naturally gravitate to the character that the writer has chosen for you, then there's an extra step that's necessary, and that's to sell the idea that while you, the player, might not be madly in love with this character, your character is for this reason, and that reason, and this reason. And the common complaint is that a lot of people just kinda never saw that in the beginning. Hence all the "We were just forced down this path and it never really felt 'natural' to us."

Players are willing to accept a fair amount if they understand "This is the direction the writers want the plot to go in." They really are. But you have to pitch it to them the right way. As some folks are saying, since it's a game, you have to sell them on the illusion that there's a choice. That they could have gone another way when in reality, they couldn't have. But at least let them think there was a choice in the matter. That goes a long way. Or, if you didn't do that, at least give them enough insight into the head of the character they're playing that they can relate to the person they're supposed to be playing as. I, the person sitting behind the keyboard may not think Megan is the best thing since sliced bread, but if I can understand why Jonas does, I'd be a lot more willing to go along with everything.

 

[Ignatz]

If what you are doing is an intellectual exercise not intended for everyone, sticking walls of text in spoiler boxes makes it a little easier on the thread.

 

[Irritantventje]

One of the first games i've actually got emotionally invested in characters... felt like an ass at times tbh. But the moment THE choice popped up on my screen i quit the game. I'm not going through with that one

 

[SparklingPudding]

But the moment THE choice popped up on my screen i quit the game. I'm not going through with that one

I'm pretty curious about THIS choice you're speaking of. Can you spoil me ? What is this choice that made you literally quit the game ?

 

[Enyos]

I'm pretty curious about THIS choice you're speaking of. Can you spoil me ? What is this choice that made you literally quit the game ?

It's the end of this episode... I really don't even want to post a spoiler, because it will elicit an emotional response if you're unprepared. :evilsmile:

 

[bigpenniser]

That's fine.

I think... I think people are getting the wrong idea about what I'm trying to do here. I'm not AT ALL criticizing people's personal opinions on stuff. You like what you like. That's cool. If you think this character is prettier, if you like that character's personality more than any of the others, that's fine. If people are looking at it as just something that's "fun" and don't want to "analyze" anything, ok.

But I have a bit of a background in this stuff. That is to say, I was a stupid English major in college. Analysis of fiction was what I did for years, and to be honest, while I found it kind of boring in class (I mean, good freakin' God, there is only so much digging into the guts of a Victorian novel before you just get bored and want to shoot yourself) I've found as I've got older that I really, really find shoving my hands into the nuts and bolts of the stuff I watch/read/play to be just damn fascinating.

So yeah, the nerd in me is going "This is actually a pretty fun intellectual exercise." That's how I'm approaching this discussion, and yes, I understand that a lot of people just want to go "Yeah... the one with the tits? She hot."

For those of you who don't want to dig any deeper? Cool. You do you, guys. Me, like I said, I like seeing what makes this tick.

And I think the point that Rogue above me is getting at is that there's nothing wrong if you agree with what PinkCake is selling - i.e. that Megan is "the idealized girl." If you think she's the prettiest, if you like that kind of "Shy at first, but with a little coaxing in the right way, she's a tigress in the sack" kind of girl, more power to you. But for those of us who are basically just along for the ride, you have to sell us on why our character thinks this. We can accept that the writer wants this to be the case. That this is the plot he's laid out. Sure. We can accept that there are players that are just naturally going to gravitate to certain characters. Also not a problem.

But if you're one of those players who doesn't naturally gravitate to the character that the writer has chosen for you, then there's an extra step that's necessary, and that's to sell the idea that while you, the player, might not be madly in love with this character, your character is for this reason, and that reason, and this reason. And the common complaint is that a lot of people just kinda never saw that in the beginning. Hence all the "We were just forced down this path and it never really felt 'natural' to us."

Players are willing to accept a fair amount if they understand "This is the direction the writers want the plot to go in." They really are. But you have to pitch it to them the right way. As some folks are saying, since it's a game, you have to sell them on the illusion that there's a choice. That they could have gone another way when in reality, they couldn't have. But at least let them think there was a choice in the matter. That goes a long way. Or, if you didn't do that, at least give them enough insight into the head of the character they're playing that they can relate to the person they're supposed to be playing as. I, the person sitting behind the keyboard may not think Megan is the best thing since sliced bread, but if I can understand why Jonas does, I'd be a lot more willing to go along with everything.

Yeah, leave the man alone. He isnt criticizing opinions. I am tho. You can choose Melissa or the wrong one :RarePepe:

 

[meanie]

This game is interesting.

The character Megan is the protagonist, not the player. Not until the end of, or near end of Episode 6. Any decisions made are centered around & bound to Megan. The player is forced to be with Megan which is interesting, and a different approach to establishing an existing couple.

This is not necessarily a negative because there is a story unfolding for and around the player. But the consequences of any decisions made are dragged by Megan, not the player. And she has only two paths, love or tragedy. We know which path Megan wants, but we cannot say no to her or remove coupling with her. (Metaphoric for the roleplay acting exercise perhaps, where you can only say "yes")

Everything about this game is compelling.

The characters and their dialogue deliver full immersion. Compounded with flawless renderings and animations. Each step of the story demands an emotional response from the player.

I've only played it once, and enjoyed it. I want to play it again and see if it will deliver a negative to my initial thoughts.

 

[Bird1019]

Generally, I'm into incest games (Tangled Up, DMD, DFD, Parental Love, Lucky Mark, Man of the House, etc.) But, I've heard some good things about this one. Coming from the fans, y'all think I should give it a try? Worth it?

 

[SparklingPudding]

It's the end of this episode... I really don't even want to post a spoiler, because it will elicit an emotional response if you're unprepared.

I finally reached it, and OH BOY, I WAS NOT PREPARED !! I guess just like him I'm going to quit the game at this point.
So much shit is going on and it all came like a fucking train heading straight for my face.
And I'm too weak hearted to handle any of that...
I'm quite curious on how other people handeled the whole thing.
Am I the only one on the verge of tears (Who am I lying to... I cried like a fucking baby) ??

 

[Dodelig]

I finally reached it, and OH BOY, I WAS NOT PREPARED !! I guess just like him I'm going to quit the game at this point.
So much shit is going on and it all came like a fucking train heading straight for my face.
And I'm too weak hearted to handle any of that...
I'm quite curious on how other people handeled the whole thing.
Am I the only one on the verge of tears (Who am I lying to... I cried like a fucking baby) ??

It's funny how the fact that i not "care" about megan made everything simple.

- Ohhh... the house is on fire, who should i save...

In any patch i'll choose Melissa and that cut the whole drama for me.



I know... many would love to hit me for it.

 

[DulledOut]

Generally, I'm into incest games (Tangled Up, DMD, DFD, Parental Love, Lucky Mark, Man of the House, etc.) But, I've heard some good things about this one. Coming from the fans, y'all think I should give it a try? Worth it?

Without a doubt man, give the game a try. I personally thought after episode three, the game had some great visuals and a great story to go along with it