Since so many were bothered by Kyra's scene early on, I've gone ahead and changed it. Check the links in the original post for the new version, and check the dev log to see what else is changed!
- Thread starter Classy Lemon
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- Jun 22, 2019
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I was also not entirely pleased to hear that. In his place, I would just get up and leave.
But I understand why this was done (at least I think I understand).
Thus, the nature of their relationship in the group was shown.
Freedom, brotherhood, no serious attachments, etc.
I often see this in books about units and groups of warriors and mercenaries.
And it's strange to me to hear that you want some character to die just because she pronounced someone's name during sex)
So far, this is the protagonist's most trusted and loyal friend.
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- Jun 14, 2020
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Thanks for the answer and yes I really liked your game, I really like the medieval/fantasy theme, and the fact that harem is one of my favorite tags is planned, is also another positive thing. And well, this audience is "kind of" boring when taken into account the LI and other guys involved, sometimes a simple phrase can sour something sweet.
But yes, your game has enormous power, your art is excellent and has everything to become something big here. looking forward to what is to come.
- Jun 22, 2019
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And so it began. Why adjust to someone else and change your own story?
Tomorrow they will cry about something else, will you rewrite the character again?
I changed it because it was insignificant, easily-changed, and unimportant to the rest of the story, and because it didn't give off the message that I intended.
It wasn't to please any haters, but for those who gave me actual, mature feedback and who expressed serious issues with it.
I won't keep changing things as soon as someone complains a little, I assure you.
- Jun 14, 2020
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Of course I didn't want her to literally die, I'm an idiot and a hypocrite, don't get me wrong, I play the mood of some and play with something even worse.
What I wanted to say is that I expected her to sort of fade out of the story, like we wouldn't have to see her anymore and we wouldn't have to go down a path with her as a "LI". I don't know if you understand what I mean. But normally in sandbox games even though we are not interested in an LI we have at some point interacted with her to progress with another LI, so as her story would be spoiled for me, I didn't want to interact with her anymore.
But I understand the brotherhood part, like, I served in my parents' armed forces for 6 years, and along with my brothers in uniform, we went to some brothels and did some shit. But they were bitches that we would never have anything to do with them again, do you understand what I'm getting at? It was nothing I was going to take for the rest of my life.
And I don't hate Kyra's character, I was impressed that she was following us, which means that despite everything she still seems to be loyal to the MC (even though she seems to like Keran better). It may seem a bit contradictory, but the fact is that she seems to be someone nice, but that dialogue spoiled her as LI. But the DEV fixed that and now she can be someone we want closer to us.
- Jun 22, 2019
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I hope so)I changed it because it was insignificant, easily-changed, and unimportant to the rest of the story, and because it didn't give off the message that I intended.
It wasn't to please any haters, but for those who gave me actual, mature feedback and who expressed serious issues with it.
I won't keep changing things as soon as someone complains a little, I assure you.
I know from experience that trying to please everyone, changing seemingly insignificant things, you can turn the plot and characters into a mess, leaving everything without logic and meaning.
In addition, the public gets used to the fact that you can "give up", and with each new concession they start crying even more.
But all the same, only you can decide what is best for you.
- Jun 22, 2019
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Classy Lemon
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. In my opinion, female characters have cool eyes) I write this in advance, otherwise I see a lot of complaints here)
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. In my opinion, female characters have cool eyes) I write this in advance, otherwise I see a lot of complaints here)
- Oct 22, 2017
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Like I said, there were those occasions where mercenaries switched sides and/or retreated.You're missing a few things.
1) There was no internet in that age. So how you will know details of battle with king ABC? Sure, mercenaries usually will not run before battle or during first clashes with enemy. But later they will run if battle isn't going into king ABC favor. And everybody understand it - dead need no money.
2) There was no cellphones and especially no cargo planes. So you could want to hire mercenaries #1, but they will arrive only in few months. That few months will be enough to push your campaign into fall-winter and make it too risky & expensive. Oops
3) Mercenaries were never a major power aside very few historical periods (and usually in city-stages area like medieval Italy).
4) During "golden age" of mercenaries - soldiers usually weren't paid on regular basis (and natural economy was very poor). So mercenaries were expensive to hire & usually was hired for a very short amount of time. If you run through history of medieval Italy - you would see that mercenaries quite often switched sides after a battle.
Once economy developed enough to allow empires to maintain their own permanent soldiers - mercenaries mostly disappeared from history as their only remaining niches were internal conflicts (until they were prohibited) and black flag operation (things like genocide or atrocities - that's a only job for them even today).
Aside from very few examples (usually related to religious or ethnicial conflicts) mercenaries never stand up to last man. That's actually a reason why empires discarded them ASAP - their own full-time soldiers were totally superior to mercenaries in battles.
And yes - loyalty because of a cause is better than loyalty because of money - for multiple reasons.
Also, each mercenary for themselves might decide to run - but you can't lead a business - and those large mercenary companies are very serious business - without some hold over your troops. Losses are of course factored into the deal.
While there partially were kind of standing armies already especially in times of ongoing warfare, as you mention they mostly prospered where there were not enough 'learned' soldiers. Be it because of the limited population, or because of their lacking abilities. You need mercenaries in times where you only have farmers (untrained soldiers), your people are dead/too few, for a push to finish your enemy or your mentioned shady operations.
Them not being used anymore after a better option was available just doesn't mean they are the worst option ever and the scum of the earth without exception.
Where there are no trained soldiers (left), a mercenary might be the better fighter and stand longer than every 'soldier' you can send. If in the VNs setting there are mercenary groups large enough to think they can stand a chance against the Empire, there needs to be an atmosphere for them being able to prosper enough to be large and strong enough for this to happen. And if there are, they will have a reputation known across the lands for there need to be (or have been) enough employers for them.
Sure, people had no internet, but word got around. By people surviving the battle, by the victorious side, and by themselves to up their value.
And if a mercenary group that was paid for a short time (a battle) decides to get employed by the other side after that battle - that is no disloyalty - they were loyal to their first employer until the contract ended and shows why loyalty because of as cause is better. If that switch is wise, would depend on the setting and what word gets around about them because of it - not like the only factor if a mercenary accepts a job is the coin promised. In a scenario like Italy, I imagine it might be okay in some instances.
For running when a battle does turn against them - they might. But with them potentially being better trained than their 'normal' counterparts (possibly even real soldiers due to actual experience) and fighting because they thought to have a chance instead of their king/general (of cause they too should have thought to have a chance) might reduce that chance in comparison. Also, as I said, losses were factored in, so if only a group of them thought about turning, they would have to get that done thoroughly because if they deserted and were caught, the punishment would be severe to make an example and keep the companies reputation up.
Sure, because they don't fight because their kings told them, but because he paid them makes deserting more of a loyalty issue for them. Just retreating might not though - a living mercenary can fight again, a dead one can not.
I'm not saying mercenaries are the best soldiers you could have - I'm just saying they aren't disloyal by definition and have their own interest in being trustworthy to their employer - and the larger the mercenary group/company, the more so.
We know very little about the rest of the setting.
I'm assuming, if there are mercenary companies able to fight the empire, they have to have some good reputation, and won't have gotten it by turning their head on every problem.
In reality, you would often just not battle anyone in fall/winter, because of logistics. So a war of ten years means a war of ten years going out in spring, fighting in summer, retreating in fall, and rebuilding your forces in winter.
And yes - you might have no options better than to hire anyone that raises their hand - but then this doesn't contradict what I'm trying to say and is highly unlikely in the case of this VN.
Forgive me DEV for doing this AFTER you changed the scene but I have to give my two cents.
The scene was FINE, there was nothing deal-breaking about it heck I found it funny, I liked how it set the scene with the band of mercenaries where they were comfortable enough to fuck in broad daylight and in-plane sight and how it set the relationship between Devran and Kyra as two soldiers that saw each other as comrades in the field and an outlet out of it, Devran complained to her more for ruining the mood than for the "you don't love me" angle.
Kyra showed herself to be loyal to Devran and they proved to the audience that they were not romantically interested in each other, not a side being cuckolded while the other makes away like a thief, I hope we didn't lose a story about two people that really didn't saw each other as romantic partners to then prove to each other otherwise in exchange for an "I'm just a mean girl hee hee".
Now after that complaint I will say this and disregard everything I just wrote if it makes this next statement more palatable so here goes: This game has too much effort put into it to not give it the benefit of the doubt.
The cutscenes, the voice acting, the cartoony models that took at least some editing not just some default one all of this for a first release? DEV is pulling no punches and I fucking love it.
The atmosphere is dreary and Devran navigates it believably while being introspective and has a LOT of stuff he is actually working to work out not just get the woman I can appreciate the fact that I have an actual character as the main protagonist.
Despite all the controversy she caused, Kyra really didn't have time to shine considering that after the prologue she becomes a non-entity so I can't comment about her character much more than what I already said but gonna say about the eyes I don't know if she is even another species considering that dragons and giants (or golems) exist in this setting but I will wait to see if she is.
And the character that was actually treated as a love interest felt awkward and like a mystery, as it should be considering the cliffhanger at the end so it's all good in that end too.
The writing I found gripping though a bit too extended in some parts with descriptions such as when MC and the redhead are eating bread and the bread and its taste is described in detail is really enjoyable but I have the attention span of a sparrow when it comes to things other than dialogue so that's on me. And the somber scenes like the one with the toy boat are very welcomed by me.
DEV you are putting actual effort into this game and I will say it as much as it needs to be said you have EARNED the benefit of the doubt. Even if you put something that I disagree with in the story I will follow that path until I find if I was correct in my assessment or if you turn it around and trust that you can make me enjoy the ride even if you actually show things I'm not particularly fond of, the sheer amount of things other games here lack (voice acting, an actual main character, other male characters that are not hostile, an interesting UI in the form of the journal) assures me that you know what you are doing or get a grip on it sooner rather than later, trust your judgment I'll be here to follow and see where you take me.
The scene was FINE, there was nothing deal-breaking about it heck I found it funny, I liked how it set the scene with the band of mercenaries where they were comfortable enough to fuck in broad daylight and in-plane sight and how it set the relationship between Devran and Kyra as two soldiers that saw each other as comrades in the field and an outlet out of it, Devran complained to her more for ruining the mood than for the "you don't love me" angle.
Kyra showed herself to be loyal to Devran and they proved to the audience that they were not romantically interested in each other, not a side being cuckolded while the other makes away like a thief, I hope we didn't lose a story about two people that really didn't saw each other as romantic partners to then prove to each other otherwise in exchange for an "I'm just a mean girl hee hee".
Now after that complaint I will say this and disregard everything I just wrote if it makes this next statement more palatable so here goes: This game has too much effort put into it to not give it the benefit of the doubt.
The cutscenes, the voice acting, the cartoony models that took at least some editing not just some default one all of this for a first release? DEV is pulling no punches and I fucking love it.
The atmosphere is dreary and Devran navigates it believably while being introspective and has a LOT of stuff he is actually working to work out not just get the woman I can appreciate the fact that I have an actual character as the main protagonist.
Despite all the controversy she caused, Kyra really didn't have time to shine considering that after the prologue she becomes a non-entity so I can't comment about her character much more than what I already said but gonna say about the eyes I don't know if she is even another species considering that dragons and giants (or golems) exist in this setting but I will wait to see if she is.
And the character that was actually treated as a love interest felt awkward and like a mystery, as it should be considering the cliffhanger at the end so it's all good in that end too.
The writing I found gripping though a bit too extended in some parts with descriptions such as when MC and the redhead are eating bread and the bread and its taste is described in detail is really enjoyable but I have the attention span of a sparrow when it comes to things other than dialogue so that's on me. And the somber scenes like the one with the toy boat are very welcomed by me.
DEV you are putting actual effort into this game and I will say it as much as it needs to be said you have EARNED the benefit of the doubt. Even if you put something that I disagree with in the story I will follow that path until I find if I was correct in my assessment or if you turn it around and trust that you can make me enjoy the ride even if you actually show things I'm not particularly fond of, the sheer amount of things other games here lack (voice acting, an actual main character, other male characters that are not hostile, an interesting UI in the form of the journal) assures me that you know what you are doing or get a grip on it sooner rather than later, trust your judgment I'll be here to follow and see where you take me.
- Jun 22, 2019
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In some ways I agree with you, in others I do not.
But, in my opinion, you are initially mistaken when comparing her to a whore.
Speaking about brotherhood and so on, I perceived and still perceive her as a "brother / sister in arms", not as a whore, but the one with whom I go to a brothel.
My attitude is that while MC and Kyra have friendship and sex, she is free to sleep with whoever she wants.
When she becomes LI, then it will be a different conversation.
I don't know how relevant this is at the moment. I did not play the "patched version".
This is simply impossible to be (aside from usual fantasy-breaking-any-logics). Such big mercenary company need a suitable jobs for them - that mean multiple kingdoms with a lot of contested lands. So a lot of allies against so-called Empire and not a glorious last stand. But dev probably replaying 300 spartans story - a great example of ancient PR when bards accidentally "forgot" to mention allied armies of Sparta
I already given an example with "Marauder". Those guys indeed had a reputation
More like infamy but you are not allowed to choice. Mercenaries are not some kind of units spawned from thin air - if all of them are egoistic and greedy bastards you will deal with it and hire someone among them.You could also learn how medieval France created their first permanent army
By picking more or less controllable mercenaries and hiring them to kill/banish remaining ones What do you mean by 'normal' counterpart? Sure they are a bit more skilled then levy (as they are by definition are conscripted peasants), but as they're lacking base of operation & spend a lot of time on traveling - they're usually far less trained then actual knights&squires.
Last days of Hanseatic League are another great example how "loyal" and "capable" mercenaries are.
- Feb 26, 2020
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wth you get a park and a market and thats it no way to forward time you cant even go to the inn to go to bed so what are you supposed to do stand there and look stupid
- Jun 14, 2020
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M4P2
As I said before, I understand your pov, you see her as an "equal". So she would kind of be a badass friend who doesn't owe her "sexual or romantic" fidelity.
But it turns out that, her being a LI, and I know the MC hasn't shown that kind of interest in her yet, but she's probably going to become one of the LC's LI's, she's kind of going to be ruined for an audience, I'd even say a big one. public, who does not like to see their LI involved in this mode. Like, I saw that the MC cares about her, at the end when the messenger raises the proposal and most of the mercenaries go with him, one of the MC's first thoughts is to look for Kyra, he even suggests that she not go with him because probably would be facing certain death. And it shows the level of bonding between them, but why spoil a "friendship" with something silly like her calling another guy's name during a "friendly fuck" that would just devalue (at least for some) a character who probably have a great weight in history?
Like, understand that I don't want an immaculate virgin here, she might have had fun with someone, it's just that it's kind of indecisive of her to call someone's name during this act, if she cares so much about MC, you know, that's kind of it gets a bit contradictory, and I understand she might have a different interest in the MC than she would have in Keran. But the most controversial issue is the fact that she is an LI, and most likely one of the most important here, so she would be disliked by a part of the players, who would prefer to cut off contact with her, but for her to be a part main part of the story would not be possible we cut contact with it 100%, so we would be, kind of always being reminded of that scene, which I can call silly, since it doesn't seem to add anything to the story, at least I didn't see anything, and on account of such nonsense, which can be very well avoided, as the DEV himself said, and also did not express very well what he wanted to convey, limit the number of players who felt annoyed by this scene. And well, with that avoided now, she can be appreciated by everyone, and if anyone doesn't have an interest in her after all, she can still be our sister-in-arms, without any negative weight. The point I want to get to is that in VN, force something is something that is not well seen, sometimes in the DEV's head it can be something cool and necessary to tell his story and he puts it thinking that it won't bother anyone, and this can causes a reaction like that. So that's why I whenever I like a game and have the opportunity to write something here, I always advise the DEV to make all fetishes optional, and every sexual part also optional, avoid unpleasant debates (I know there will still be those who will complain) and makes people who like the story, but get bothered with something can still enjoy the game, a simple example, a girl will give you a futjob, make it optional and have the option ask for a normal handjob, makes people who don't have this fetish can simply not be bothered and choose the option that pleases you, instead of being displeased with something simple that can be avoided, I don't know if you see where I want to go. For me "lose" an important personage for an idiotic speech, it's ridiculous.
I know it's his story and sometimes you really have to show things that make the audience angry, but if that's what you want to show and make the audience feel like that, make that person an antagonist or an NPC, not an LI, because I'm sure that after something unpleasant she won't be so appreciated by the public. Like, a game that I recently played and I really liked, the MC finds it's sterile, and when he gets home his wife says she's pregnant, the MC uses her "violently" and throws her out on the street covered in cum, and this "cheating" caused a personality in the MC to treat women differently after this event. And as the game is still in development, it is not known yet if he was betrayed by his wife, or set him up. But the fact is that until now the ex-wife has not appeared in history anymore and it is likely that she appears not to be a LI, but as an NPC.
And in closing because I've written a lot, what I mean is more like avoiding annoying people for unnecessary things in history, things without real weight, and making a personage that was supposed to be adored, end up being discarded for something so trivial.
Thanks for the respectful discussion, I hope to discuss more gaps with you in the course of this game, which looks something amazing. And I hope DEV is very successful with their work.
As I said before, I understand your pov, you see her as an "equal". So she would kind of be a badass friend who doesn't owe her "sexual or romantic" fidelity.
But it turns out that, her being a LI, and I know the MC hasn't shown that kind of interest in her yet, but she's probably going to become one of the LC's LI's, she's kind of going to be ruined for an audience, I'd even say a big one. public, who does not like to see their LI involved in this mode. Like, I saw that the MC cares about her, at the end when the messenger raises the proposal and most of the mercenaries go with him, one of the MC's first thoughts is to look for Kyra, he even suggests that she not go with him because probably would be facing certain death. And it shows the level of bonding between them, but why spoil a "friendship" with something silly like her calling another guy's name during a "friendly fuck" that would just devalue (at least for some) a character who probably have a great weight in history?
Like, understand that I don't want an immaculate virgin here, she might have had fun with someone, it's just that it's kind of indecisive of her to call someone's name during this act, if she cares so much about MC, you know, that's kind of it gets a bit contradictory, and I understand she might have a different interest in the MC than she would have in Keran. But the most controversial issue is the fact that she is an LI, and most likely one of the most important here, so she would be disliked by a part of the players, who would prefer to cut off contact with her, but for her to be a part main part of the story would not be possible we cut contact with it 100%, so we would be, kind of always being reminded of that scene, which I can call silly, since it doesn't seem to add anything to the story, at least I didn't see anything, and on account of such nonsense, which can be very well avoided, as the DEV himself said, and also did not express very well what he wanted to convey, limit the number of players who felt annoyed by this scene. And well, with that avoided now, she can be appreciated by everyone, and if anyone doesn't have an interest in her after all, she can still be our sister-in-arms, without any negative weight. The point I want to get to is that in VN, force something is something that is not well seen, sometimes in the DEV's head it can be something cool and necessary to tell his story and he puts it thinking that it won't bother anyone, and this can causes a reaction like that. So that's why I whenever I like a game and have the opportunity to write something here, I always advise the DEV to make all fetishes optional, and every sexual part also optional, avoid unpleasant debates (I know there will still be those who will complain) and makes people who like the story, but get bothered with something can still enjoy the game, a simple example, a girl will give you a futjob, make it optional and have the option ask for a normal handjob, makes people who don't have this fetish can simply not be bothered and choose the option that pleases you, instead of being displeased with something simple that can be avoided, I don't know if you see where I want to go. For me "lose" an important personage for an idiotic speech, it's ridiculous.
I know it's his story and sometimes you really have to show things that make the audience angry, but if that's what you want to show and make the audience feel like that, make that person an antagonist or an NPC, not an LI, because I'm sure that after something unpleasant she won't be so appreciated by the public. Like, a game that I recently played and I really liked, the MC finds it's sterile, and when he gets home his wife says she's pregnant, the MC uses her "violently" and throws her out on the street covered in cum, and this "cheating" caused a personality in the MC to treat women differently after this event. And as the game is still in development, it is not known yet if he was betrayed by his wife, or set him up. But the fact is that until now the ex-wife has not appeared in history anymore and it is likely that she appears not to be a LI, but as an NPC.
And in closing because I've written a lot, what I mean is more like avoiding annoying people for unnecessary things in history, things without real weight, and making a personage that was supposed to be adored, end up being discarded for something so trivial.
Thanks for the respectful discussion, I hope to discuss more gaps with you in the course of this game, which looks something amazing. And I hope DEV is very successful with their work.
none of the animations are working for me i think everything are just the renders and idk if the sex scenes are supposed to have like different angles to choose from but im not getting any of that
- Jul 23, 2018
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1. Great fucking start, Voice acting is not cringe, animations are nice, funny yet serious dialogI changed it because it was insignificant, easily-changed, and unimportant to the rest of the story, and because it didn't give off the message that I intended.
It wasn't to please any haters, but for those who gave me actual, mature feedback and who expressed serious issues with it.
I won't keep changing things as soon as someone complains a little, I assure you.
2. Make Kyra get a girlfriend next update just for those people. You complained so blam now you NO GUY can have her. Problem solved
3. Yea Eyes
4. Im REALLY looking forward to future chapters
The first cutscene remains the same, which is understandable because a fully animated cutscene isn't remade just like that in a second. She does later explain that she didn't mean what she said and that she was just teasing the mc, which he was aware of. There's nothing anywhere implying that she's a "town bike that fucks everything" as you mentioned. Her sex scene can also be avoided now.
There are a few very minor voyeurism scenes here and there, but the characters are nameless and practically faceless as well, and the dev has put in warnings and options to avoid them. They're insignificant, it's just "oh people are fucking in there, oh well, moving on." Extra scenes that were just put in there for people to have a few more (optional) scenes to enjoy. But honestly, if you're that sensitive just about seeing another, unknown person have sex in a porn game, maybe this isn't for you.
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