VN Ren'Py Abandoned Another Man's Wife [v1.092] [Too Perilous]

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

So in short: We waste our resources on animations.

Am I the only one who considers this bad news overall, since animations are not only a waste of time and effort, but also reduce the quality of a visual novel?
A good story with good renders and interesting choices and consequences is what I'm looking for in a VN, not some annoying wonnabe-movie-snippets that usually can't even be skipped to get to the next text.

I usually skip through the animations as fast as possible. I want a good erotic story and renders that advance the story or at least add depth to it.

In saying that, the Steam audience has paid for the content and it is mostly guys who want to see more animations. So it is understandable the devs will have to cater to that audience. Most couldn't care less about the story or characters as long as its a chick getting banged by multiple dudes. It is what it is.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Thankfully, I would consider your opinion a minority opinion, at least among the 3DCG crowd. Sure, bad animations are detracting, distracting and embarrassing (for the dev). Good animations, however, add a lot to a story/game. I am curious if you've played any with good animations. It's like this...I can drive a car without air conditioning and still get to my destination; but, on a hot summer day it sure is more comfortable and enjoyable to stay cool while driving.

Yeah I'm in the pro animation camp; though I recognize they're a high stakes gamble for resources and dev time: poor animations suck up a ton of render and design time and add little, great animations can make a game.

In my view, these camps are representative of a broader schism in the adult games world between those who appreciate and prefer the visual novel roots, and those who want to get away from it as fast as possible-myself being in the latter.

As for my criticism of this game's devs and animation - it was less at the fact that they're making animations, and more that they're polishing existing content instead of creating new events. I hate this in all forms, whether it's updating renders, creating animations, polishing storylines. While quality of life updates are a thing, in the AVN sphere this is a disturbingly common veil of overall stagnant progress. Everyone knows in the lifecycle of a game, before death comes "remakes", "updates", "renovations". We already have a Jason and Steph sex scene, we get it, they have sex. Time for some new sex scenes.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

speaking of Paul,
among all those guys that Steph got, i would say Paul is still the nicest one (eventho i hate his hair and face model)
he was genuinely interested and being nice even asked MC if it's ok with him before the foursome
( unless they gonna pull a twist on him...ffs don't turn this into some netflix drama twist dev )

Yeah Paul is a decent guy and definitely better than Donnie. I think the devs got this one right. Steph isn't really interested in Paul, he is a nice guy who would never treat her the way Donnie did. With Donnie the asshole, Steph is all in letting him control her and treat her like shit even wanting him back again (kitchen chat) to do the same again. How many women I know are like this...

 

[WuzzyFuzzy]

I usually skip through the animations as fast as possible. I want a good erotic story and renders that advance the story or at least add depth to it.

Yeah I'm in the pro animation camp; though I recognize they're a high stakes gamble for resources and dev time: poor animations suck up a ton of render and design time and add little, great animations can make a game.

In my view, these camps are representative of a broader schism in the adult games world between those who appreciate and prefer the visual novel roots, and those who want to get away from it as fast as possible-myself being in the latter.

As for my criticism of this game's devs and animation - it was less at the fact that they're making animations, and more that they're polishing existing content instead of creating new events. I hate this in all forms, whether it's updating renders, creating animations, polishing storylines. While quality of life updates are a thing, in the AVN sphere this is a disturbingly common veil of overall stagnant progress. Everyone knows in the lifecycle of a game, before death comes "remakes", "updates", "renovations". We already have a Jason and Steph sex scene, we get it, they have sex. Time for some new sex scenes.

I get you both. This game needs help in the animation dept. Two frame loops are not animations. And I also agree that it's too disruptive to keep stalling the game because, oh snap, I figured out how to do an animation and I need to go back and rework stuff. No, get to the end because if you think you can do animations well now, just wait--it is an almost infinite space in which one can improve. Get finished, drop back and rework and add some DLC. That will keep the fans happy and the $$ flowing.

I have written ad nauseum both in threads and the forum at large about the need for story-boarding and following a schedule with blinders on. But 99% of these guys/teams won't take examples from movie/TV/production peeps as myself to heart. Write the story beginning to end. Plan production, stay focused, don't deviate unless there's been a hose beast of a fail. Incorporate experience and new ideas into the next project.

 

[Nurikabe]

speaking of Paul,
among all those guys that Steph got, i would say Paul is still the nicest one (eventho i hate his hair and face model)
he was genuinely interested and being nice even asked MC if it's ok with him before the foursome
( unless they gonna pull a twist on him...ffs don't turn this into some netflix drama twist dev )

Absolutely agree! That guy looks like a tool. I am not a fan of the gym rat look that most of the men have to begin with. I like Paul's attitude more than Donny, for sure.

 

[m4pII]

In the only negative review on Steam, a person complained about bad animation, so it looks like the devs took it to heart and focused on improvements.

 

[Power Broker]

Good animations, however, add a lot to a story/game. I am curious if you've played any with good animations. It's like this...I can drive a car without air conditioning and still get to my destination; but, on a hot summer day it sure is more comfortable and enjoyable to stay cool while driving.

Yes, I played games with good animations, and no, it's not about their quality. Animations are an interruption of the flow of a visual novel: imagine watching a movie and every five minutes, the movie stops and you get a picture with a text that reads what you just saw. Also in this case, it's not about the quality of the text or the beauty of its font, it's that you want to watch a movie and not read a novel.

That said, even if you are in the pro-animation-camp, you should realize that animations don't add much to a story and are really bad in terms of effort vs. output; most games would work just fine if you took away all their animations.
So having so much resources dedicated to them instead of, for example, advancing and improving the story or adding more choices, should be bad news even for you, because it seems the developers focus on secondary things instead of the core of their product.

 

[Nurikabe]

Yes, I played games with good animations, and no, it's not about their quality. Animations are an interruption of the flow of a visual novel: imagine watching a movie and every five minutes, the movie stops and you get a picture with a text that reads what you just saw. Also in this case, it's not about the quality of the text or the beauty of its font, it's that you want to watch a movie and not read a novel.

That said, even if you are in the pro-animation-camp, you should realize that animations don't add much to a story and are really bad in terms of effort vs. output; most games would work just fine if you took away all their animations.
So having so much resources dedicated to them instead of, for example, advancing and improving the story or adding more choices, should be bad news even for you, because it seems the developers focus on secondary things instead of the core of their product.

Gotta say I agree 100%. Animations take a lot of resources time and effort. Sure, they can be really fancy and show a lot of skill to achieve. But they do not add anything to a visual novel. I have never seen an animation that I thought, wow, I am glad they animated that or I would not have understood the scene.

 

[camube]

yeah same, i'd rather story-focused than time wasted in animations but maybe that's where the paying demand is.

 

[WuzzyFuzzy]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. If it were me doing one of these not only would the project have animations, but top quality audio. A sound track, foley, the works. For me, not having those things is equivalent of silent black and white movies vs The Way of Water. I can still enjoy the former, but the immersion in the latter takes the experience to a much higher level.

I would also have, at most, four releases per year. One thing that really gripes me is to open a game and play it for 5 minutes. Monthly releases, for the most part, are more of an irritation. There are a whole group of games that I have put on a schedule of skipping every second or third release. I want to sit down and play for an hour, at least.

 

[blkcrow820]

I've played good games both with and without animations. I don't think they have to be there but I also disagree with the statement that they distract or interrupt the game. To me they add to the game if done right.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. If it were me doing one of these not only would the project have animations, but top quality audio. A sound track, foley, the works. For me, not having those things is equivalent of silent black and white movies vs The Way of Water. I can still enjoy the former, but the immersion in the latter takes the experience to a much higher level.

I would also have, at most, four releases per year. One thing that really gripes me is to open a game and play it for 5 minutes. Monthly releases, for the most part, are more of an irritation. There are a whole group of games that I have put on a schedule of skipping every second or third release. I want to sit down and play for an hour, at least.

That is fair enough. I get why you want that for a full sensual experience. I'd expect that in a game or movie experience but I don't want that for my VNs. I see VNs as akin to a graphic novel/comic not a game/movie. I have read about 80 VNS now and the only VN I haven't turned off the sound because it distracted me from the story was Ocean's Summers Gone. That is just my preference.

I agree four to six releases a year is a good idea. It would give us a lot less to talk about and speculate on though

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. If it were me doing one of these not only would the project have animations, but top quality audio. A sound track, foley, the works. For me, not having those things is equivalent of silent black and white movies vs The Way of Water. I can still enjoy the former, but the immersion in the latter takes the experience to a much higher level.

I would also have, at most, four releases per year. One thing that really gripes me is to open a game and play it for 5 minutes. Monthly releases, for the most part, are more of an irritation. There are a whole group of games that I have put on a schedule of skipping every second or third release. I want to sit down and play for an hour, at least.

Yup agreed with both.

That is fair enough. I get why you want that for a full sensual experience. I'd expect that in a game or movie experience but I don't want that for my VNs. I see VNs as akin to a graphic novel/comic not a game/movie. I have read about 80 VNS now and the only VN I haven't turned off the sound because it distracted me from the story was Ocean's Summers Gone. That is just my preference.

I agree four to six releases a year is a good idea. It would give us a lot less to talk about and speculate on though

And I think this comes back to the personal preference I mentioned on those who see these games as novels vs those who want them as a full immersive experience. I very much remember the animations in Badik where maya is giving you her first bj while looking you in the eyes -that's not just 'complementary' material to the game, it's an innate part of the game.

On sound I think it's frequently neglected. I agree many games just put it in as filler with no real thought - same with foley effects (we all know the silly door close sound or the weebtastic *surprised!* chirps in rpgm games) But for those that actually put work into it - it's a much better product. Half of the emotional appeal of Leap of Faith is the soundtrack. Same with the earlier portion of Badik and the whole "college" feel.

To me an example of sound done right in adult games without repetition or obsessive amounts of work are many of the Lesson of Passion titles. If you've never played "Under the Black Banner" with its lively pirate jigs or "Seducing the Throne" with its world-of-warcraft-esque harps and strings, you're missing out. The otherwise mediocre "Arkham Dark Legacy" is extremely enjoyably due to the sinister ambient sounds.

Overall, imo most adult games are very bad with "theming". Sound, descriptions, art, all things that build a cohesive product with which the player can live in that world.

 

[asahibito]

Just for fun I decided to convert a couple of JPEG animation loops into webm. The 2 SxD kneeling BJ before the foursome on the bed. Gallery scene "SxDxGxE". The converted webms has the same "framerate".

The raw JPEGs for each animation totaled around 20MB each. The webm versions are 2MB each using CRF10 quality. The resulting visual is very close to the JPEG animation, almost indistinguishable when not examined closely.

The game has about 6 image folders for animations totalling about 4GB. This would be about 400MB converted to webms bringing the total game closer to 1.5GB in size.

I am attaching the files for folks to try it out.
Extract and copy the files to the "game" directory.
If you use my walkthrough mod, remove the mod file. The test file supersedes it.

 

[WuzzyFuzzy]

Just for fun I decided to convert a couple of JPEG animation loops into webm. The 2 SxD kneeling BJ before the foursome on the bed. Gallery scene "SxDxGxE". The converted webms has the same "framerate".

The raw JPEGs for each animation totaled around 20MB each. The webm versions are 2MB each using CRF10 quality. The resulting visual is very close to the JPEG animation, almost indistinguishable when not examined closely.

The game has about 6 image folders for animations totalling about 4GB. This would be about 400MB converted to webms bringing the total game closer to 1.5GB in size.

I am attaching the files for folks to try it out.
Extract and copy the files to the "game" directory.
If you use my walkthrough mod, remove the mod file. The test file supersedes it.

Yeah the game assets are needlessly bloated. I've posted about it a couple of times already, but the devs aren't here, so....

Given the access to various tools that would make their production both easier and better, I often wonder just where some of these folks learned their craft. Just how much research was put into doing what needs to be done to make the game efficient in size and function. I have come to the conclusion that the majority (almost all) of peeps making their first game need another few months of research, prep and practice. But I think what stands in their way are greed and impatience. Many start out thinking this will be an easy buck to make, but when things bog down they lose motivation because their expectations were too high. (U)nrealistic expectations X (R)eality = (D)isappointment.

Regardless, thanks.

 

[asahibito]

Yeah the game assets are needlessly bloated. I've posted about it a couple of times already, but the devs aren't here, so....

Given the access to various tools that would make their production both easier and better, I often wonder just where some of these folks learned their craft. Just how much research was put into doing what needs to be done to make the game efficient in size and function. I have come to the conclusion that the majority (almost all) of peeps making their first game need another few months of research, prep and practice. But I think what stands in their way are greed and impatience. Many start out thinking this will be an easy buck to make, but when things bog down they lose motivation because their expectations were too high. (U)nrealistic expectations X (R)eality = (D)isappointment.

Regardless, thanks.

In the run up to 1.06 I recall seeing posts on Steam about game size and the devs responded they were working on slimming it down for the 1.06 release. I was a bit disappointed it didn't happen after a few updates, especially when I thought that replacing animations meant they were also going the video route.

So I decided to give it a try to see how much time it would take and whether the quality would suffer. Turns out not much time at all once you have all the renders. In fact generating the video file probably takes less time than coding the animation loop using jpegs. And with the right encoder settings you can get pretty close to JPEGs while drastically reducing file size. Using it in the actual script remains practically the same, just declaring it a video instead of a picture.

All said, I am glad this game gave me the motivation to try all these things - feature creation, video encoding, scripting etc. - in renpy and learning before hunkering down to create my own game.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

In the run up to 1.06 I recall seeing posts on Steam about game size and the devs responded they were working on slimming it down for the 1.06 release. I was a bit disappointed it didn't happen after a few updates, especially when I thought that replacing animations meant they were also going the video route.

So I decided to give it a try to see how much time it would take and whether the quality would suffer. Turns out not much time at all once you have all the renders. In fact generating the video file probably takes less time than coding the animation loop using jpegs. And with the right encoder settings you can get pretty close to JPEGs while drastically reducing file size. Using it in the actual script remains practically the same, just declaring it a video instead of a picture.

All said, I am glad this game gave me the motivation to try all these things - feature creation, video encoding, scripting etc. - in renpy and learning before hunkering down to create my own game.

learning a bunch of basic ffmpeg commands and making batch files for them has paid dividends for me in tons of applications, i keep a folder of stuff like

@echo off

SET /p startMinutes=Enter Start Time Minutes?

SET /p startSeconds=Enter Start Time Seconds?

SET /p EndMinutes=Enter End Time Minutes?

SET /p endSeconds=Enter End Time Seconds?

start "" /W c:\ffmpg\bin\ffmpeg.exe -ss 00:%startMinutes%:%startSeconds% -to 00:%endMinutes%:%endSeconds% -i input.mp4 output.mp4

also the basic image2 filter aint bad for jpg to mp4:

ffmpeg -f image2 -i /path/to/file/image%3d.jpg output.mp4

It's also light years faster than doing stuff in vlc.

 

[Nurikabe]

That is fair enough. I get why you want that for a full sensual experience. I'd expect that in a game or movie experience but I don't want that for my VNs. I see VNs as akin to a graphic novel/comic not a game/movie. I have read about 80 VNS now and the only VN I haven't turned off the sound because it distracted me from the story was Ocean's Summers Gone. That is just my preference.

I agree four to six releases a year is a good idea. It would give us a lot less to talk about and speculate on though

I was just going to add that Summer's Gone and Leap of Faith were the only VNs I have not muted before starting. There are so many VNs that I just click through the horrible text or miserable grammar. When an animation comes up, it stops the flow and I have to wait for it to load. Then usually have to scroll back because I was clicking and it advanced too far. If 'skip animations' were a choice in the preferences, I would use it.

That is not to say that I have not seen some incredible use of animations and even transitions. It is just rare; again Summer's Gone comes to mind. I certainly won't fault a dev for putting an animation in though.

 

[Dom Toretto]

We need a android link to the 106 does anyone have it

 

[ELTigger]

Very good, definitely on my favorites list ntr